I've run both of these tires. I put Defender ltx on my Yukon XL and on my Ram 1500 and they are awesome, and arguably the best road tire you can get for light trucks. I also put a set of the LTX AT2 on Ford Super Duty 2500, those suffered faster tread wear but the truck was almost 2000 lbs heavier than my Ram. Those LTX LT2 were a beast in the snow! They were no different, nor worse driving in a foot of snow than a light rain. The only negative thing I can say about the ATX is that they were not horribly bad but definitely have a noticeable amount of road noise.
@booobtooober: It seems like you've got a rich history with these tires, with varied experiences. Your insights on the different performance aspects of both tires, including road noise and tread wear, will surely help others in making informed decisions.
I've had both MS Defender and the AT2. The MS Defender is super smooth, quiet, great in rain, decent in light snow, but not 3PMSF rated. It even does a decent job impersonating an all terrain tire. The AT2 is really an aggressive all season tire. It does alright in snow, good in the rain, but it is not great in off road. As long as it's just dirt and gravel, it's decent. It's very quiet and a smootb, but throw some mud in there, and it reaches its limits. It has no shoulder tread or protection, and exposes the sidewall to side punctures. The AT2 doesn't have wide voids and the blocks are too close to grip in off road. The tread was only 13/32 deep new so it doesnt have deep blocks to grab terrain. It picks up rocks left and right and grows them into my fender liner. In fact, I finally bought a long, curved end pliers to pull rocks out. I also suffered lots of punctures. I've gone through 5 punctures and patched them up. I just got tired of it's weak performance and got rid of them at 50,000 miles. I went to the Cooper AT3 XLT and went 51,000 miles without one puncture. Now I have Mickey Thompson Baja Boss All Terrain, a truly ferocious all terrain and foul weather tire. The AT2 has been around for about 20 years without any changes or improvements. Michelin owns BF Goodrich and tells people to go to the BFG KO2 if they want a true all terrain tire. I know, I've contacted Micheling to inquire about a more aggressive tire and they had told me to go to BFG. Going 20 years without any improvements is disappointing. All other tire companies have gone through AT, AT2, and now into AT3. Even BFG KO3s are out. Yet Michelin has stayed stagnant and moribund. Their original AT tire looked better and more agressive than this AT2. Adding more siping into the AT2 would be the easiest improvement for added snow and wet traction. Nope. Widening the blocks or have larger voids would increase off-road grip. Nope. Michelin actually has the FORCE model, sold in Southeast Asia and making news in the road rally world, but no Force models being imported to the US. Doesn't give me much confidence that Michelin cares about making a serious all terrain tire.
Thank you for such a thorough breakdown of your experience with these tires. It's clear that you've spent considerable time and effort researching and experiencing different tire models. Your in-depth insight into the areas where Michelin can make improvements, particularly in terms of evolving their all-terrain tires and perhaps bringing the FORCE model to the US, presents an intriguing point of discussion. We sincerely hope that Michelin takes customer feedback like yours into account to innovate and better their product range. The switch to Cooper AT3 XLT and Mickey Thompson Baja Boss seems to have worked well for you, which is great to hear. Do let me know what you feel about them in long term use.
Im driving to colorado (15 hour drive) in a couple weeks. I have toyota 4 runner and want a quiet ride and better gas mileage. we are gonna do very minor off roading up to some trailheads. Do you think the MS would be able to handle a little off roading? i currently have the stock nitto grapplers and they are terrible with any water present. thanks for your time
Ive run both of these for years in New England from hot summers to record breaking blizzards. MS is absolutely the best tire I’ve ever used. AT is great in deep soft snow and rock climbing but not close to the MS anywhere else and not recommended for wet roads due to the large smooth tread surfaces that brake like water skis.😂 MS is unmatched in plowed/packed snow and ice, almost like a dedicated snow tire, safe and easily controlled in wet braking, as well as quiet, smooth, efficient in the summer and basically bullet proof. Cornering and steering feel are as good as you could want. With the LTX MS, my non-traction control solid axle running 235/75/15 rear wheel-drive conquered every blizzard effortlessly. Just make sure you add weight over the rear wheels.
I buy my tires based on the worst conditions I will face. That means that I prefer the LTX A/T2, on my 2007 Honda Ridgeline. They came with a set of A/T2's and were replaced with the same. Have gotten over 150,000 km's on the second set and still have 15% tread life left, until I hit the "TWA" marks. They also are like cheating in the snow!
I have the LTX MS, on my 2021 trd pro tundra. The ride is quiet and comfortable, wet conditions are handled beautifullyso far here as we approach summer rains in Florida. As for fuel economy, I avg 13.9 mpg city and 17 hwy. Afraid to see what any other tire would be if this tire is giving me these mumbers.
@jorgea3507 Glad to hear that the LTX MS is performing well for you in wet conditions. And yes, fuel economy is an important aspect to consider when selecting tires.
The Tundra is well known for abysmal fuel mileage. I get that with my Ford F250 6.7 diesel! Using the 5.7 liter V8 but using a large rear gear ratio on the order of around 4.5:1 is bad for fuel mileage but that's how you can supposedly tow 10,000 pounds.
@@BernieMittens These should handle mild rock, but imo if its something you do frequently i would go with a more aggresive tire. This tire imo is the best all around tire, ride, noise, rain, mild snow and gravel mountain roads.
Exactly what version of the Michelin tire you have? Is it the Defender LTX MS, Defender LTX MS2, Defender or Defender 2, Michelin LTX MS or Michelin LTX MS2?
Sometimes it's really difficult reading these reviews because there are different variations of the LTX MS. You have the LTX MS, LTX MS2, Defender LTX MS, Defender LTX MS2. Then you have the Defender and Defender 2, non LTX. So when I'm reading these posts I have no idea which tire I'm reading about and mix for inconsistent reviews. For example one review might say that the tire is super quiet and another review says that the tire is noisy and rides rough. Are they talking about the same tire? For example, one of the reviewers here said that the Defenders are the worst tires he has ever owned. Well which Michelin tie are you talking about? Are they referring to the Defender LTX MS or the Defender 2?
I hear you Let me try to clear things up. So basically there are two categories of all season tires ( out of 5 ) The defender 2 (successor of defender t+h) comes in standard touring. They are lighter in weight, and have less voids to tread ratio. The defender ltx ms2 (successor of ltx ms) is a highway touring tire, which is basically the most aggressive all season category and it also has LT sizes ( made for heavier vehicles) After this category you get on to all terrain tires, and enters the ltx at2. You know what go to tiredriver . com and search for categories of all season tires. It will help you a lot. We are actually working with tiredriver btw.
Hi, I keep hearing the Michelin LTX MS tire has been discontinued. Are you able to verify that? If so, do you know why it was discontinued? Someone told me the LTX MS2 is replacing it. Thoughts on that tire vs the LTX MS original? TIA
Hey, yes these tires are going away for good, but the good thing is the newer ms2 does better in majority of performance areas. BTW do check out Michelin Defender Platinum, I have a feeling you’d like it
Better use up the tire threads fast on Michelin tires. I had Michelin all seasons premium top of the line (PREMIER Primacy MXV4) passager tires proudly made in CANADA. Haha! Great famous performance with a big famous name. It actually drives pretty good. Everything went south👎👇 In only 3 1/2 years with plenty of thread, then visual signs of dry rots with only about several hundreds of fine cracks lines on all sidewalls of all 4 tires smiling at me. After all Michelin's biggest advertising slogans is your life depends on how good is your tire. Brought it back to COSTCO with its famous posted black and white powerful warranty behind their beans counter. They blamed me for all the dry rots and all the sidewalls cracks. With a big no no instore warranty claim or adjustment. They asked me a double-edged sword question of " Do you use tire shine or not?" Guess what ? I said " YES". He replied back " You shouldn't be supposed to use any tire shine or rubber preservatives products ." They give me Michelin's own representatives toll free number to deal with me. The Michelin Co. representative tells me to go to one of their independent privately owned tire shop near me to get another evaluation. Guess what? The same tire dressing question? He ask me do I use any tire shine products again. I quickly realized it's a double-edged sword question. If you use tire dressing products, it means you are using chemicals that are a no-no for the Michelin tires. If you said you don't use tire dressing products, which means you don't take care of your tires. It ends up another no and forfeit warranty claim. Then, the Michelin tire rep gave me another tire shop located much farther away from this location for me to get another evaluation for warranty claim. I realize this is just another RUNABOUT GAME Michelin played to F#*k me up to get rid of me from warranty claim. No warranty claim on a 5 years FAMOUS Warranty. I will never look at MICHELIN tires again after this HALL OF SHAME GAME 🎮 they played on consumers like me. There big advertising slogan is just a big lie. ( Your love ones lives depends on Michelin.) Yes, an advertisement is a paid advertisement. That's all.
This is all tyres now, they are no longer allowed to use certain oil derived products to make the rubber so they now degrade faster my daughters car was advised on the MOT it had cracking of all four tyres, it’s only four years old and less than 20.000 miles/30.000kms !
Better use up the tire threads fast on Michelin tires. I had Michelin all seasons premium top of the line (PREMIER Primacy MXV4) passager tires proudly made in CANADA. Haha! Great famous performance with a big famous name. It actually drives pretty good. Everything went south👎👇 In only 3 1/2 years with plenty of thread, then visual signs of dry rots with only about several hundreds of fine cracks lines on all sidewalls of all 4 tires smiling at me. After all, Michelin's biggest advertising slogans are your life depends on how good your tire is. Brought it back to COSTCO with its famous posted black and white powerful warranty behind their beans counter. They blamed me for all the dry rots and all the sidewalls cracks. With a big no no instore warranty claim or adjustment. They asked me a double-edged sword question of " Do you use tire shine or not?" Guess what ? I said " YES". He replied back " You shouldn't be supposed to use any tire shine or rubber preservatives products ." They give me Michelin's own representatives toll free number to deal with me. The Michelin Co. representative tells me to go to one of their independent privately owned tire shop near me to get another evaluation. Guess what? The same tire dressing question? He ask me do I use any tire shine products again. I quickly realized it's a double-edged sword question. If you use tire dressing products, it means you are using chemicals that are a no-no for the Michelin tires. If you said you don't use tire dressing products, which means you don't take care of your tires. It ends up another no and forfeit warranty claim. Then, the Michelin tire rep gave me another tire shop located much farther away from this location for me to get another evaluation for warranty claim. I realize this is just another RUNABOUT GAME Michelin played to F#*k me up to get rid of me from warranty claim. No warranty claim on a 5 years FAMOUS Warranty. I will never look at MICHELIN tires again after this HALL OF SHAME GAME 🎮 they played on consumers like me. Their big advertising slogan is just a big lie. ( Your love ones lives depends on Michelin.) Yes, an advertisement is a paid advertisement. That's all.
@@loktom4068I had the same issue with the cracking and premature dry rot in the older version of the Ltx 2. I had them replaced under warranty and I didn't have the same issue with the second set.
What kind of Defenders did you buy, because they perform just fine for me, and noticeably quieter and smoother than my previous Good Years. They even do ok in snow, despite not having the 3 peak rating, but unless you live in Alaska, you're not driving in snowy conditions for more than half the year. I'm in MN and they work for me.
I've had 3 sets of the Ltx line. All of them on 4runners. They replaced the Goodyear wranglers on my 2000 sr5 4runner and it was a great improvement except for gas mileage by about 1.5 miles per gallon less the the Goodyears. The performance however was greatly improved. Smoother, quieter, better ride and great traction in all weather. I then had the ltx 2 m/s and had great performance again but had some cracking and premature dry rotting but was replaced under warranty. The replacement set held up beautifully for many years. Now I have a 2014 4runner and just had the newest version of the Ltx- m/s 2 defenders put on and they feel just as quiet and smooth but I've noticed slightly better handling in this version..maybe a stiffer side wall..firmer rubber compound?? Not 100% sure, but I like them alot. Michelin tires impress me. I've had all brands including Yokohama, Firestone, Bridgestone, Kelly, Cooper, BF Goodrich, Goodyear, Toyo, Uniroyal, and Dunlop. Michelin imo is the best overall.
