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Mate, love your reviews but scale your charts properly by starting them at zero (in most cases). Cheers! www.chadskelton.com/2018/06/bar-charts-should-always-start-at-zero.html measuringu.com/graph-zero/
@@tyrereviews thank you for a great review. I'm getting a BMW M2 CS soon which comes with the Cup2's all round. I probably will never take it to track. What tyres would you recommend for better longevity and economics? Many thanks in advance
It seems the dry lap times didn't render into the video for some reason, sorry! The average times were Cup 2, 73.1, Cup 2 R, 71.8. The Laps Cup 2: 65 , 64.8, 64.7, 65.1 Cup 2 R: 63.2 , 64.1, 64.2, 64.4
This is what i saw as well on BIC GP configuration, i have seen 3-4 seconds advantage for the CUP2Rs over CUP2s. Keep in mind that is around a 2:10 lap time. So around 1:30 lap the difference would be around 2 seconds like you saw.
Awesome, that seems to be a good trace. Michelin actually tested at Silverstone GP and found 3 seconds and Brands GP and found 2.5, so everything seems to add up.
We need to retest ALL CARS FROM LAST 20 years BECAUSE OF the tire technology progress! For example the old C6Z06 will be almost 6-7 second faster around a decent size track. Nurburgring will probably be 10sec or more!
I couldn't agree more with this assessment of the Cup 2s. I use them on my daily in a Mediterranean climate, where winter isn't heavy with rain. I have to add, that the consistency of the tyre over the full course of its life is extremely consistent. It offers almost as much grip towards the end as it does at the start of its life - at least on public roads. I never had such a consistent and great performing tyre.
@@thesoloadventure5958 I've done nearly 30,000 km, and they're getting towards the end. I should mention I don't drive them hard - on average - and they've only been moderately tracked once for a couple of hours. I'd say 30,000 km is a rough estimate of what you can expect out of the tyres, if you don't hammer them.
About to try Cup 2R. I have a HSV VF GTS auto with 586kw at the rear wheels. Been using Pilot Sport 4S for roll racing and they have been hooking up (suprisingly) really well. Just upgraded my differential from the standard 3.2 ratio to a 3.7 ratio and expecting the Sport 4S to no longer cut it. See how the Cup 2R goes.
@@AB-80X No. The A052 will wipe all the others including the Cup 2. It may be the best trackday tire out there. It has all the street tire class time attack lap records in the US. Not even the RE71R could beat it. The cup 2 was measurably slower. I would love to see how it fares to a Cup 2R and R888R and maybe a BFG Rival.
@@AB-80X you are incorrect. The AR1 is essentially a 100TW Enduro tyre. Whilst it is a high performing tyre it’s nowhere near the level of Hankook Z221 TDs or Advan A050s. (Not A052s). This has been proven everywhere in Australia especially at time attack events and hill climbs. Even the new Bridgestone RE71RS’s are faster than Nankang AR1s
Another great comparo! I run the Cup 2 for a couple seasons now and love it. I actually came here because I have FOMO with the Cup 2R. Your comments towards the end are great for us Cup 2 consumers.
I've always wondered how the Toyo Proxes R888-R compares to the PilotSport Cup 2, have you or may you do a review on those for comparison? FANTASTIC stuff man... You are the absolute bar when it comes to information on tires! Keep it upppp! 😎🔥
@@tyrereviews YESSSSSSS!!! Thank you thank you thank you!! I'm just about looking to pull the trigger on those R888-Rs, and I'd really like to see how they compare... Again man, hands down, no content exists anywhere that can even come close to comparing the level of detail, the amount of unbiased opinion, or the sheer level of both quality and quantity of the tires you have reviewed. Thank you for all that you do!!
Ad08r/rs, r888r and nankang ar-1 would be a good test. Puts tyres into a lot more trackday groups then as you can get then in much smaller fitments for clios, imprezas etc. I'd like to see the accelera 651 sport tested as well as that's meant to be a solid tyre now
Great content as always. I'd love to see more common trackday size comparassion. For example: 265/35/18 - Trofeo R - Direzza 03g - Nankan AR1 - Federal FZ-201 - Cup 2 - Yokohama A052 :)
Thanks Jonathan!! Really looking forward to watching this video. For me, Michelin really do make the best tyres! A very close second is Goodyear. Continental and Pirelli don't come close in my opinion. (V8 RWD Sedan with 630rwhp)
REQUEST: "TYRE PRESSURES - How critical are they?" Should I reduce pressures for wet? Increase pressures for sport? Does it even matter? Are run-flat pressures different? Easy and cheap vlog to produce on a subject we can all rectify for free. Great tyres are nothing with incorrect pressures.
Great question! Personnaly I'm starting to look at lowering the pressure on my family car, manufacturer recommandation seems to go crazy high and you loose a lot of comfort, I even saw some uneven wear because of it. Tyres used to be inflated at 140-190kpa now it's more like 240-290kpa. I understand that above 160kph pressure need to be increased but come on! For exemple, on the Panamera 4S in 19" Porsche actually specifies a "comfort" setting below 160kph at 200kpa instead of 220-230kpa up to 270kph and 240-250kpa for top speed.
@@tyrereviews That's cool, I'm inflating a Grandland X to 180kpa front and 170kpa rear for comfort now. 99V tyres, should be fine at 130kph with a light load. Not as dynamic though, but smooth AF.
By the way, my car is the 992 Turbo S, and the only N-rated tires so far I could find are the Pirelli P-Zero it came with. I tested them on the track last week, but felt I could have done much better times with better suited tires. I know the subject has been discussed in many forums, but I would be really very interested in hearing your expert opinion on this - using non-N rated Cup-2's on a car like that
I'd like to see on the skoda a comparison of a general all season tire vs the cup 2. A sort of what happened when you put racing tires on the family car. Happy holidays!!!
I have a Mk1 Focus RS running 380bhp on standard rims (225/40r18). It does less than 1,000 mile a year, no track use but the odd show in the summer. I had Toyo R1R's fitted and they were fantastic although they look to be discontinued so I went for the R888R and they drone like mud tyres on a land rover! I'm tempted to give some Michelins a try next unless you could recommend anything more suitable? Great content!
Thomas I have a mk2 focus rs had conti contact 3 on changed to the Goodyear f1 supersports, wow fantastic tyre,never had ps4s so I can't compare, check out the reviews, you wouldn't be disappointed with the f1 supersports that's for sure ,great in wet and dry,probably to good for how I drive it probably should of gone asymmetric 5 tbh
I don't do track days so I'll stick to my Pilot Sport 4S for wet weather reasons. Wish I had the resources to experience what you do... I enjoy all your reviews, Thanks.
It's a dirty job testing all those tires in a Porsche GT3 RS but somebody has to do it. Seriously, thanks Jonathan for interesting and informative tests you've been doing on the Michelin tires. I've made the decision to replace my PS4S tires on my 370Z with the PSC2 next time I change tires, in good measure based on your observations on the performances of these various Michelin tires.
@tyrereviews old comment, but imagine if the C7 Corvette ZR1 had Cup 2 R tires instead of regular Cup 2s. The Mercedes AMG GT Black Series is just 250ms quicker around VIR Grand Course with its Cup 2 R tires and the ZR1 is slightly faster than the 911 GT2 RS while it uses Cup 2 Rs
"Show off to a mate" - Yes okay "Show off to a Girl" - ummmm she wouldnt be interested in tyres. Atleast mine is not. :P Lucky are the one's who have that :D Awesome review. hoping for more content soon
I did a calculation of the Cup2 R's longitudinal deceleration during the braking test and came up with a figure of 1.29 g's, amazing that your eyeballs weren't pulled out of their sockets when you hit the brakes on that car with those tires.
@@tyrereviews Yes, that was an average over the 43.55 meter braking distance. You might need to start wearing fighter pilot g-suits if you're going to be doing such high g manouvers on these tire tests😁
Jonathan your comment about impressing your girlfriend with high-G braking reminded me of the famous Top Gear episode where they tried to impress teenage girls with handbrake turns. Maybe I made a bad choice but my missus get annoyed if I exceed 4000 rpm in my 986S cos “it’s just noisy and uncomfortable”!
What you say about the new Track Connect being longer lasting is not entirely trye. Michelin has actually made two different types of Track Connect Cup 2 tyres. One features the regular Cup 2 compounds and the normal 180 wear rating, while there's a new version featuring a 240 tread waer and harder compound This latter tyre slots in between the MPS4S and regular Cup 2. Some refer to the new Cup 2 as the Cup 2 240. Tread wear ratings goes as follows. MPS4S: 300 Cup 2 "240": 240 Cup 2/Cup 2 Track Connect: 180 Cup 2 R: 140
Michelin have made this super confusing for us. We're calling the Cup 2 Track connect the cup 2.5, but don't get it confused with the other Cup 2 Track connect which isn't the new compound
Love these reviews...from the extreme high performance tyres like these to the more mundane everyday stuff...I always recommend anyone I know ,whose thinking of putting shitty budgets on to check out your reviews...so many people who just see their car as a mode of transport think a tyre is a tyre is a tyre, and buy on price alone, unfortunately...also, I reckon there should be some form of insurance discount if you fit decent tyres
It seems the dry lap times didn't render into the video for some reason, sorry! The average times were Cup 2, 73.1, Cup 2 R, 71.8. The Laps Cup 2: 65, 64.8, 64.7, 65.1 Cup 2 R: 63.2, 64.1, 64.2, 64.4
I just saw on the Michelin USA site that the cup 2r is available for the TLX type S. It would be fun to see how much more bonkers this tire is compared to the normal tires on that car. Track tire on a sport sedan... Let's find out 😁
Good video as usual, changing tyre level, it would be interesting to see the differences on dry and wet of sport vs touring tyres, so something like Primacy 4 vs Pilot Sport 4 and/or Goodyear EfficientGrip 2 vs Eagle F1 Asy 5
@@tyrereviews Yeah, something I want to see as well. Often both tires are available and it's hard to choose for a family car : the touring tyre is probably more comfortable, but by how much? While the sport tyre is probably safer, but by how much? I want safety and comfort and I really have a harde time choosing! :)
Great video, I have cup 2’s on my car and I’m itching to get back out on track to test them. A video on how to decide optimum track pressures would be great as so many people run them too high and end up with overheating/blistering
Would be interesting to see the porformance differance between these tyres and a real competition tyre. Years ago every one raved about yoki r32's & 38's. If you then fitted a inter, like Dunlop X12 you were off the brakes and back on the throttle, when braking for the same corner. The differance was somthing like 1 1/2 seconds a stage mile in wet conditions, in the dry it was 2+ seconds With a 180 bhp peugeot 205. Or a mk1 golf with the same sort of power
Again a very nice video. My god that car sounds like an angel. I would very much like a test with energy saving tires. Tires for BEV and so. Keep up the superb work
BRAVO !! Love what your doing. I have the 4s's on my '18 ZL1/1LE an they were my tire of choice when the factory Goodyear's went south. I ran a back to back lap times at HPR (Colorado) of 2:08, not bad for not touching the car , alignment an such.Curious how the Bridgestone RE71R fare , in the mix? Presently looking for a strictly Track Day tire, leaning towards the Factory Goodyears. Keep up the good / fun work, im jealous HMF
Great review! I would love to get the Cup 2 R... but I guess I will stay with the Cup 2 because of it's everyday drive capability. By the way, I've driven the Cup 2 over the Alps lately... ENDLESS GRIP!!!
Great review as always 👍 Could you please please test sport contact 7 vs Cup 2 cannot find any comparisons anywhere. Now tech street vs old tech track tire.
Seeing lots of Supersport content here (for performance tyres at least) i would have a suggestion for a test, comes from a wide and present discussion. Yokohama just “updated” its widely love AD08R to the AD08RS. Some say the tire is getting way worse than the “old” one. Especially in the area of light sports cars Like the Eise to MX5 and probably up torwards the GT86, the Yokohama was the way to go really. So it would be very interesting to see a proper test of the AD08R vs AD08RS vs A052 (just for comparison). Especially for my Elise S1 the AD08R was the only way to go in terms of performance tyre if you wanted to stick with the factory 185/205mm front/rear width.
Deg by session vs lap would be helpful. I’ve heard both cup2 and 2R get quick deg after two or three sessions. Interested in this at your level of driving
Thanks for the awesome comparison. I’m wondering how I should chose the best tyre pressure, what to look for etc. Their are some videos on RU-vid off course, but I’d like to hear your point of view. I drive a Focus RS mk3, with 235/35R19 CUP 2’s. Thanks again!
Send an email to Michelin, their technical support is great. They will send you the suggested cold (to start with) and the hot tire pressures suitable for your car. If you want even more performance, I can recommend the Nankang AR-1. I got them on my GTI TCR in the same size. They got a way stiffer sidewall, which makes the handling and the feedback sharper. Also they can handle more heat and they last longer, due to the bigger contact patch. Downsides: they're pretty loud and in the wet you have to be really careful. For the AR-1, aim for 2,3 bars hot pressure, they'll stick like glue 🙈
Please show us something older like a T1R vs a modern tyre so folk realise how far things have moved on. Or if possible something like a sport contact 2 vs. a 6. Could pop them on an RS Clio.
Really helpful review thank you. I have you tested the MICHELIN PILOT SPORT CUP 2 CONNECT versus the MICHELIN PILOT SPORT CUP 2 R please? I would be interested in your thoughts?
If you're talking the regular Connect there's no difference. What he failed to mention is that there are two versions of the Connect. There's one which is the normal Cup 2, but with the Connect feature. But along side that, Michelin has released a new Cup 2 Connect called the Cup 2 Connect 240. This is a Cup 2 with a harder compound that slots in between the MPS4S and Cup 2. Some also refer to it as the Cup 2 "Sport". So now there are actually three compounds in the Cup to range. From hard to soft. Cup 2 240 Cup 2 Cup 2 R Be aware of this if you're looking into using the Connect shoes.
Thanks for this! I imagine a Slick tyre actually wouldn't set any much faster time than the Cup 2 R but it is able to repeat it more often when set up right. Are there any plans on comparing street and racing tires at this point?
What about p-zero corsa instead of trofeo, are there much difference? For your comments Pirelli sound like the more suitable for me, furthermore I want to switch from Michelin due to the big problems I had in other cars and it’s always the same, it’s like the outside of the tire get loose
What's missing in review, some real slicks eg. hoosier's :), to stuck up against. I wonder what might they be closer in grip and in lasting past single quick lap, to C2 or C2R ..
It would be great to see the Nankang AR1and Toyo R888r brought into the comparison with the Cup 2 and Goodyear tyres considering the Nankang and Toyo tyres are a very common sight on track days.
Please review the new Michelin Pilot Sport All-Season 4, specifically in comparison to the previous generation AS3+ and Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06. Thanks!
@@ianshea9025 not really what Europe wants, we have the Pilot Sport 4 and Continental PremiumContact 6 summer tires. All Seasons are rare in Europe, even though Michelin popularised them a little bit with the CrossClimate.
Great comparison as always. Keen to see how the Pilot Sport Cup 2 and Pilot Sport Cup 2 Connect compare when you get that opportunity! I've read that the Connect variant also has sensors built into the tyres to take data on the roll, is that meant to be their defining difference from the Sport Cup 2 or do you expect performance differences on track as well?
Michelin advise not to start below 1.9 so we started there and got them up to target, which was stock for this test. I'd like to be doing more pressure testing in the future :)
I was always missing an direct comparison from you between the PS4, PS4S and, here it comes : the PSS. That would be really interesting to see for us poor 18 inch lads that can't fit 235/40/18 tyres because unfortunately that's the only 18 inch size the 4S is aviable in, so far at least (seriously michelin, cmon...). But anyway, awesome video as usual, keep it up mate!
Would be great to test and compare more economical track day tyres such as the Toyo R888R, Nankang AR-1, Yokohama ADVAN A052, Bridestone POTENZA RE-71R, EAGLE F1 SUPERCAR 3 to more expensive tyres like the Michelin Cup 2 Track Connect, and the Pirelli Trofeo R and a final comparison to a true slick tyre such as a Hoosier R7 or similar.
I have the Goodyear SC3 tires on my SS 1LE. They are awesome. I see 1.2g’s on on/off ramps. From I have read, they are just a tad behind the Cup 2 tires in grip, but they are more consistent and take heat better. I like Goodyear more over Michelin because they have stiffer sidewalls and have a more crisp turn-in. Also since Michelin used a bi-compound, the outer edges always wear out before the rest of the tire.
I've owned cars and trucks that came with pirelli, either truck tire or passenger or sport, and I don't care what anyone says, pirelli makes bad tires. I don't care that they bought their name brand into f1, they just don't perform. On the other hand, I've never experienced a poor performing michelin. ...
Shocked to see that much braking performance improvement. On a separate note, you have done many budget tyre reviews and talked about how bad they are in the wet. How does a budget tyre stack up against a track tyre in the wet. I've heard you call budget tyres dangerous but not track tyres.
American content? Once upon a time I commented about the Goodyear Supercar 3 tires and their R counterpart (also talking about Tesla's run at the Nurburgring on the R version) and if I should get them again on my ZL1. You replied that they are only in America so not likely you will ever be able to cover them. Probably not what you are referring to when you said American content, but I can't say it didn't get me excited hearing you say that! Great content as always!
I would love to see lap time comparison between cheaper road legal "semi slicks"/UHP tires VS either one of these Michelins. I can't believe how hard it is to find decent comparison. Basically this new R version seems to be bit over 1 sec/min faster. However, this would probably change depending on how smooth or rough pavement is, or what is track's AVG speed, how many hard braking zones there will be etc.?
I have a Widebody hellcat and looking to upgrade the tires. I found a good deal on a set of Michelin Cup 2 R tires 305/35/20. I am an intermediate driver with the Porsche and BMW clubs. Would you expect these tires to last 5+ track days or do they really only have one session of life?
I'm wondering how it would be on different tarmac conditions. I know the Cup 2 using it with the Turbo S (992), quite easy to overheat the rear tires... if you ignore all signals ;) Really looking forward to have the 2 R on a track... for everyday use the Cup 2 is even a bit too much on the sporty side! The massive torque of the Turbo S is a bit of a disadvantage when it comes to tires ;)
You asked for suggestions for reviews, so here I go, ha ha. Having a Clio 197 as my "fun" car, and wishing to keep it on 17" wheels, I would appreciate a "shootout" of suitable tyres for this size. We can't get tyres like the PS4S and similar. And at 215/45/17, it's not the cheapest tyre size. I'm guessing there is not much performance difference in moving to 225/45/17 for the cheaper tyre sizes, so that comparison is probably not overly revealing, however, could be interesting to see if changing tyre size, allowing perhaps an upgrade in tyre quality for the same price, is worth doing. (My 2015 Diesel Focus runs 215/50/17 as standard, and for both my Clio and Focus I switched to 225/45/17, both with the Goodyear Asy5). I think it would be more interesting to see how "mid-range" tyres compete in this tyre size, on a similarly small-ish hot-hatch. I'm thinking Dunlop / Vredstein / Hankook / Falken / Yokohama / Uniroyal. As these seem to be rather popular suggestions on the FB groups / Forums. Although I fear with Goodyears competitive pricing with their Asy5's coming in around the same as some of these brands, that it may just be the winner there. I know you recently did a "shootout" with more comfort orientated smaller tyres. But smaller hot-hatches still want "performance" tyres, rather than comfort tyres. But perhaps can't get the more performance orientated tyres that seem to be reserved for the 19"+ wheel brigade.
@@tyrereviews This is why I asked for a review of the mi-range tyres, like Dunlop Sportmaxx / Vred Ultrac Satin / Hankook etc. Obviously for outright performance, your looking at Conti, Michelin or Goodyear, but you are generally paying for them. Barring track tyres. But there are loads of people out there who simply aren't willing to pay the premium for the best, (not really myself, as I do try to buy the best, and love your videos for this). There must be large audience of people who might be able to buy a Fiesta ST or RS Clio on 17's rather than a GT2RS with it's 20's or whatever. I just think it would be interesting to see a comparison for mid-range "performance" tyres in a sensible size. Similar to the likes of the mid-range tyres you did with the touring tyres recently. You obviously already cover premium performance tyres in monster sizes.
@@tyrereviews Off the top of my head, I was thinking tyres like: Falken FK510 Azenis Hankook Ventus Prime 3 K125 Dunlop SportMaxx RT2 Yokohama V105S Advan Sport Uniroyal Rainsport 5 Nokian Powerproof Vredestein Ultrac Vorti Avon ZV7 I'm not necessarily meaning in 17" size. Could be done in 18" size too, or whatever size has the most crossover. The point was, not the best tyres in that size, but looking for the best mid-range tyre. You do enough videos of the top tier tyres already. But more a video looking at the mid-range tyres that might be available in everyday car tyre sizes. I mean, even 225/40/18, a fairly standard car tyre size nowadays, you can't get the PS4S, for example. And we already have plenty to tell us what to buy between Conti, Michelin and Goodyear anyway. But what we have little of, is where to look when we want something a bit cheaper, since some of us are on 80% wages or whatever. Apart from on your great website of course. But a video testing these would be very interesting I think.
Hi Mate, I need ure opinion. i d like to buy 2 Tires, 2x 335 30 20, but i can t get desicion which s the best tires 4 my car, (Turbo S-650hp;) 2x Michelin Pilot Super Sport N0 or Michelin Pilot Sport PS2? i ll be happy about ure answer and recommend ;) Greetings from Germany
Is there any technological difference between the New and old Cup 2 ? And what means the „240“? In Germany it only calls „Cup 2 Connect“ without The 240.
Does it actually make sense to fit a Cup2 (Normal, C or even R?) on a stock M240i? I want that sharper feedback that the PSS and the 4S doesn’t offer even tho’ I’m just once or max twice a year on the Nordschleife doing normal tourist laps - nothing special. Cheers from Frankfurt, Alex
Aren't there a limited number of heat cycles recommended on the R as well? Could make a huge difference if you're going to the track often but you won't there for many sessions each time or if you like to do many short sessions.
