2:45 The better answer is to spend $100 and get a Midwest Industries or American Defense QD mount. This alleviates the weakest part of the setup (the mount) and allows quick access to your BUIS if your optic poops out...and the QD mounts hold zero
I bought the 3x prism, piggyback mount, and the SLX pistol dot. I've found that red dot piggyback mount to be super fragile. Just bouncing around in a rifle bag in the back of my truck was enough to bend it off center. I also just really hate how the cantilever mounts look. Let me be clear, I haven't managed to damaged or break the cantilever risers, I just do not like how it looks as a subjective matter. My solution was to take a unity FAST riser, flip it around backwards and mount it as far back as I could on my AR receiver then I mounted the 3x prism on the FAST with the regular/low mount, and mount an arisaka offset red dot mount on the FAST forward of the prism. I'm a big fan of this setup.
I love these optics and hope that PA continues to refine them over time. I do not use a red dot with my 3X. With a little training anyone can overcome the magnification thing. This was something we learned years ago in the Corps and never seemed to have a problem with it. I also have mine mounted on an ADM straight riser run all the way to the rear so the back of the optic is even with the charging handle, no cantilever is necessary...for the 3X or 1X anyways, both of which I have zeroed on the same type of mount for the same gun. I have practiced swapping them out and they keep zero well. One goes down I could swap to the other, or I could change these things out depending on what fantasy mission I have assigned myself. I plan to add the 5X to the line up eventually to continue playing with my multiple prisms for one weapon concept. Guns are fun and in America we have options!
I've watched probably a dozen or more different videos on the prism optics and you're the only person who has the sight on camera, it was really cool seeing the target at the distance then seeing how it looked through the optic. Thanks!
This is a FANTASTIC review! I love that you compare comparable sights and actually show great side by side down the sight images on a range to let us see what we would be getting into.
It’s all just preference, I do a lot of hunting and my hunting rifle (.300win bolt) has a 2.5-10 so I’m used to running a scope in bear country (Alaska) but it’s really nice to dial in to 10 for the long precise shots. If you are shooting targets in a field or at a range then anything works but if you are shooting meatsacks that hide in cover and aren’t just sitting in a field spray-painted white then you’ll want an lpvo so you can discern what’s the target and what’s a log in the woods. Also I think a lot of people can benefit from hunting and use what you learn in a potential real world application. Great video as usual guys!
Great video, especially the drop tests. I'm glad you commented about datasets and followed up on Brock's observations about the piggyback mount with your own testing. So tired of seeing stuff about the SRO and everything going back to that one Aaron Cowan video. I'd love to see more people actually testing the SRO to confirm its durability, or lack thereof versus having a blanket opinion due to a single video. Anyway, glad to see the positive opinion on the 3x. Other than the reticle issues, it seems like a solid value option for people that prioritize size and weight in a prism optic.
While I appreciate Aaron Cowan's rigorous/rough scheme of regular drop tests, I think it's a good idea to put things in context. Something that fails Aaron's drop test isn't instantly unfit for use. It might be smarter to ask competitive shooters about optics that have lasted through relatively rough treatment, unless you literally are "duty grade" required by your job. Most pistol competitors love the SRO no matter how it fared in Aaron's drop tests. Serious pistol competitors are pretty high-strung about their gear's reliability, they hate losing points or match placement due to gear issues.
If "almost as good " is good enough for You then I agree go with what you feel comfortable with. I have had weird things happen in the field so I will hold off until they fix the durability of the piggyback mount. As always top grade review fom a channel I Trust !
@@nonyabusiness1126 I've had no issue with my 3x on 20" rifle length gas system over about a year and ~600 rounds. I just got the 5x and mounted it on a .308. Thursday will be my first outing. I'll post if anything goes sideways.
Very informative. I had that ACSS 3x and my old eyes really could not make use of the hold over hash marks. I sold it and bought the Vortex spitfire gen2 5x and mounted the red dot to the top of the scope. Much better setup for me.thanks for the review
Second review I’ve seen with significant distortion on the 5x. Between that factor and the janky piggyback mount, I’d say the 3x is the move, especially paired with an offset red dot.
Great review and information. Your take on these optics is different than 90% of the other reviewers and was very helpful! I also agree 100% about your LPVO philosophy (primarily short distance, sometimes long). That’s why I’m so picky about LPVO performance at 1x.
Great review. Love the scope cam. It really shows how well the 3x holds up vs the 4x acog. You can hardly tell the extra 1x mag on the acog and the image is plenty clear on the 3x. I’m debating the 5x but I really think that junk piggyback is gonna keep me away.
You don't have to buy the piggyback or the offset they are options and fit onto the mount. You could have both, none or of them. The 3x doesn't come with the offset nor does the 5x come with the piggyback.
@@PistonDrivenGun I know but I want a piggyback. It’s just that this one seems so bad as to make the whole thing not worth it. Maybe if they make one with direct mount
I went back and forth a lot between putting an LPVO or 5x with offset or piggyback on my Ruger SFAR. At the end of the day, my decision came down to weight. I think A LOT more people would use an LPVO if you weren’t adding a pound and a half to the top of your rifle.
On the torque setting for the screws and bolts I used loctite blue 242 and torqued the crossbolts to just under 55 inch pounds and one of the bolts snapped and shot out of the mount. Primary Arms quickly sent me a replacement mount and crossbolts under warranty but they did not tell me to use a lower torque setting. After researching dry vs wet threadlocker torque settings and what other manufacturers recommend for similar mounts I again used loctite blue 242 and torqued the 10-32 screws to 15 inch pounds and the crossbolts to 35 inch pounds. Nothing has snapped or backed out, the scope has been solid and holds zero. ( I got the 3x and it's on a 5.56 AR15)
@@khann844 If yours hasn't had any problems I'd leave it as it is. Many people used the manual's torque spec of 55-60 inch pounds for the mount crossbolts and had no problems while a few had snapped bolts. I personally think that setting is too high but PA includes Vibratite VC3 threadlocker which hardens when exposed to air and you're supposed to wait 15-20 minutes for it to harden after applying it to threads, then put the bolts in the mount and torque them down. I used loctite blue 242 which stays liquid until the bolt is torqued down and it hardens over 24-48 hours afterward. There are conflicting beliefs and recommendations about lowering your torque setting when using wet threadlocker but among people who think you should lower it most say to lower it by 20-30% of the scope/mount manufacturer's recommended setting. I took the lower end manufacturer recommendation and lowered it by 30% for both the 10-32 screws and the mount crossbolts and ended up at 15 for the 10-32 screws and just a little over 35 for the mount crossbolts (still using loctite blue 242) and mine has been perfect since then. As for other manufacturers' recommendations for mini ACOG mounts (which these scopes use) they're all over the place for both, some lower than the settings I had success with and some the same as PA.
I used the blue thread locker too. I have yet to have any problems. What you’re saying is that the torque specs are designed to compensate for the thread locker? I always use blue loctite on all my mounts
@@khann844 Some people think wet threadlocker acts as lubrication so the actual torque can end up higher than your wrench setting, and basically that most manufacturer torque specs are intended for dry bolts or bolts with pre-hardened threadlocker. All I know is while using wet threadlocker it seems like screws and bolts do end up at a higher torque than some manufacturers intended and reducing it by 30% has worked for me. I also tried a 507k on my Hellcat with adapter plates and loctite blue 242. With the first plate I tried I torqued to 15 inch pounds and the front of the red dot bowed up away from the plate. Months later I tried a different plate and torqued the screws to 10 instead and the front of the red dot stayed flush with the plate. I've never seen an optic manufacturer instruct for two different torque specs for wet vs dry though.
For me it’s just the eye box is so unforgiving. The upper end LVPOs feel so nice to use. Prism optics that I’ve tried (from acogs to vortex spitfires) so far don’t really have an offering that made me go “man this is nice”.
Theyre mini scopes. No real purpose for them except for a field rifle that you have to carry long distances and need minute of man accuracy out to practical distances. So for soldiers and SHTF its a good choice.
@@syntaxerrorsix3137 if I wanted 1x, I would get a red dot. I’m not actually sure how I feel about 3x, because the magnification doesn’t feel appreciable to me. IMO 4x and above seems to be actual meaningful magnification when running around and shooting at range.
@@thalesofmiletus6162 90% of Americans will experience astigmatism. Once the likelihood your eyes deteriorate feel free to report back. 3X is the happy place between 5X and 1X that allows for PID and CQB.
I am super grateful for the knowledge and content you put out here. Always great information. As I am new to all this, I always enjoy the education and live demos. Keep doing what you do.
I'm interested in the 5x, almost feels like it would be worth it to run it on a .308 for many things. The draw of the LPVO is strong, and the ACOG is stronger, but that price tho. If money weren't an issue I'd just run an ACOG, as looking through my buddies' really impressed me.
I bought a number PA prisms as they seemed like such a good deal. The features sounded really good on paper. Honestly I regret it. If I could do it again, I would instead just buy a couple of EO Techs or T-2s. When it comes down to it, their inexpensive Chicom manufacturing comes through. And then you have the confidence sapping lack of metallurgical control that you seem to always have with Chineses products. I torque to about 20%-25% under their stated spec, and still had a screw head fracture off overnight when the gun was just leaning against the bedroom wall. I am not crazy about the lack of protection for the reticle screws on the 1X and 3X models either. And the diopter adjustment on one of them is turns too easily. Also the short body combined with the eye relief required for some of them make it hard to get the optic far enough back on some firearms, like the Ruger PC Carbine for example. The horseshoe/ inverted-V reticles looked great, but in practice I find I prefer the traditional EO Tech hologram, with a separate magnifier, or even just a red dot. Interestingly, out of the bunch (1X, 2.5X, 3X, 5X), I found I liked the cheapest one, the SLX 2.5X x 32, best. It was super cheap, yet has the most positive detents on the illumination knob, the best diopter adjustment, and the best reticle adjustment feel. The turret caps aren't bad either. It looks a little crude, but seems to be the most well built out of the lot. Reticle is a little wonky though.
Great review, had all the answers I was looking for! Glad someone finally did a side-by-side comparison to the ACOG! I recently ordered the SLx 3X MicroPrism and am excited to take it to the range. I wanted the ACOG TA110 but couldn't really justify the cost.
I haven't gotten to use mine yet, but so far I really love the 3x. My only criticism so far is that I can't put protective caps on it. Get on that PA!!!!! I did put the killflash on which will help but the rear is unprotected. And no, you can't see the honeycomb at all on this so bonus there. The eyebox is small but if you have a good cheek weld, this really isn't a problem. I had a Comp M4s before and while it's great, it's heavy, it's big, and I have astigmatism so out it goes. My friends' LVPO's are nice but I don't like the weight. As for eye relief, this really isn't a problem. Nose to charging handle!
If I'm using nods, I'm probably running a laser for that purpose too. I don't need the piggyback for anything close in that instance. Laser actually stretches out pretty far as well, only concern would be environmental (fog, etc) interfering with that. But then again, it would interfere with everything else also.
Great assessment, looks like PA needs to rework their 12 o'clock mount so in the meantime the offset/45 mount is more reliable. I'm still sticking with my red dot plus magnifier as depending on what I am doing I can pass around or share the magnifier or even remove it entirely and run a very light rifle if the situation calls for it.
Id prefer something using acog style mounts. I have a milsurp acog mount for an old burris prism and i like the piece of mind or having proper military hardware like that
I have the 5x with mill reticle, I like it for medium to long range. I wanted the piggy back to work to use with night vision, but between BF review and now yours, I'm glad I didn't get it. For now I just use either occluded or the vis laser on my LAM for short range
@@SuperSetCA Thanks for the answer, and thanks for the great videos. I always look forward to them. I actually was able to get behind one today (5x). I really liked it. Even at 100 I liked it. Even at 50 it was ok for the targets I shoot. (Not man size targets). I think I am going to go 5x with an offset rds. Anything 50 and in I can just tilt and shoot. The piggyback isnt really an option for me - even if it was durable. Raising my head - no bueno. I cant justify the 3x if I can offset with the 5x and their isnt enough of a disparity between the 1x & 3x to have that set up. In my opinion anyway.
Great review and congrats on hitting 100k subs. PAs new prism sights really seem nice for the money. The glass quality has really improved since the PA Gen 2 1-6x that I currently still own and my buddies previous version prism.
Thank you for video. I always enjoy hearing what you have to say. Personally, I have rifles with red dot/3x, acogs/offset dot, and LPVO’s/offset dot. What is best just comes down to the job/mission, knowing their limitations, and keeping skillets polished. That being said, I don’t think there is one setup that trumps another regardless of the situation… it just depends. If people genuinely joke that the L in LPVO stands for lame, they clearly lack experience, training, maturity, and lack the ability to break away from “group think”.
Just picked up a vortex spitfire 5x micro prism for $200 and put my old burris fastfire 3 on top. Really liking it once i found a cantilever mount for it
@@zodaguado6655 eye relief on any high power prism or magnifier is going to be very tight. I got it flush with my charging handle by using a Vector Optics t1 cantilever mount that I had to order from Hong Kong
Great review as usual. This setup doesn't make sense to me. I had one and ditched it. I see 80-90% of my use case on 1x and the occasional magnification shot. Therefore this setup is backwards, as I'd be canting the rifle to use a 45 degree offset 80-90% of the time (I don't like the red dot mounted on top and futzing up my cheek weld). I prefer to stick with an LVPO or red dot/magnifier setup personally. I also run 45's on my LVPO equipped setups (especially the cheaper LVPO's that don't have the same eye relief and eye box as my Razor). With that said, PA products and reticles are top notch for the $$. I am running a couple of their products.
This Hombre doesn't receive the credit he deserves for his scope reviews, he is without doubt one of top most concise scope reviewers out there, personally I think he is the topdog. Now that I did my brown nosing Lol maybe he would be so kind as to do a review on the Vector Paragon Prisms as well as a comparision between the PA Nova and the Vector Continental 1x6 these are two optics that like himself don't get the attention they deserve.
Leupold 1.5-4 green fire dot. It is a 1" tube, but they only weight 9oz. I usually stick with light, low rise rings or a Vortex mount( the mount is kind of heavy) I have two and will buy another if I can find one. ( they may be discontinued)
First ever comment (in my life) on RU-vid, but I've gotta say this: your content and format is probably some of the best in the industry for informational purposes. You somehow manage to methodically answer every single question I have. Keep up the great work, the rest is sure to come.
I have been an ACOG boomer forever (and I hate LPVOs except for hunting) but I like these better with the off-set being so far forward instead of being right next to my eye like the ACOGs. Also find it easier to rotate the gun vs move my head up and down.
It’s 2007 again…. They aren’t bad and have their place, LPVOs definitely aren’t out, the people saying is are the same people who are ones that attach to trends and look for equipment to improve their shooting. Both are good options with pros and cons like everything.
Lmao… I have a 1x with flip over 4x magnifier. Haven’t looked back. Been running a setup like this for 10+ years. The LPVO trend, although useful, felt like an expensive “if I need it” sort of trend. Guns are already an expensive “if I need it” hobby/sport/right. This is probably the most reasonable argument for ditching the 1x+4x mag combo. What I don’t like is the height and sticking a $500 optic on the top of an extension
Awesome channel. I run both a dpo and a LPVO on different rifles. My two SBRs run the DPO with the PA 3x and offset Red dot while my 16 inch rifles run LPVOs. I just have a different purpose for the guns. I always have at least some magnification on my rifles because my eyes are not the best and positive ID is important. I personally love the PA 3x prisms. Great video yet again!
Great video, very good color correction and shots! LPVO still have their place, gun people are just always trying to fine a new thing to feel more "special" than everyone else.
Woaahh dude, I don't have a micro prism. My prism is huge. I'd say it's the biggest prism in the neighborhood. Maybe even the biggest prism in the world.
I was gonna buy one, but I'm waiting for the new A.I. Driven rifle. The one that just aims for me, or at least tells me it has and that my bullet hit and that I'm a nice person as I lull off into a deep sleep.
You can, but you do have an eye box with a prism that you will not have with a red dot. C_does has a video on a Vortex 1x prism where he talks about the downsides to running a magnifier behind a 1x prism. I've personally seen 1x prisms mounted too far forward, and while it is usable, you are losing a lot of the field of view by being too far back
You can and it works just fine. FoV doesn't matter much at all for a 1x prism pushed forward. And with the pa magnifier you won't get bloom in your reticle unlike with a red dot. Personally I prefer LPVOs but I have this setup and I'm not any slower or faster with it in comparison
What about profile!? That thing is a sky scraper! Also, the further you bring your optics from your rail, you’re creating a giant leaver. You’re far more likely to knock that setup out of zero. Especially with that setup being a single point lockdown and how little contact bite you have on the picatinny.
I just ordered one and will use it on an A2 upper, LVPOs are not dead its just another option, used to be called big game scopes before some tactical nerd tried to make a cool name for them. Nothing wrong with them
We need pistol micro prisms. The r and d can be done. I don’t care if it costs 500-1000 for one. My pa cyclops is amazing for my astigmatism. We need prisms for pistols especially when we have mailboxes for handgun dots.
