Want more microneedling info? See our latest free articles: Microneedling the scalp: does it cause scarring? perfecthairhealth.com/microneedling-the-scalp-does-it-cause-scarring/ Do I need to bleed during a microneedling session? perfecthairhealth.com/do-i-need-to-bleed-when-microneedling-for-results/ Is shedding from microneedling a good or bad sign? perfecthairhealth.com/i-am-shedding-after-microneedling-why/ Can microneedling cause an infection? perfecthairhealth.com/microneedling-infection/ If I stop microneedling, will I maintain my hair gains? perfecthairhealth.com/what-happens-if-i-stop-microneedling/ How do I reduce the pain from microneedling? perfecthairhealth.com/microneedling-for-hair-loss/ Microneedling vs. PRP: which is better? perfecthairhealth.com/microneedling-vs-prp-which-is-better/
you should look more into the work on sublingual and oral minoxidil, although the studies on sublingual aren't that extensive. It's crazy how much of the population are unresponsive to topical minoxidil.
Although the studies you are talking about, says that 1 or 1.5 mm length does not work, instead 0.5 - 0.8 is better, but on the other hand multiple personalized experiments on internet shows that 1 and 1.5 mm works better. And, the numbers of such individuals on Internet are overwhelming. No one even talks about 0.5, 0.6 mm. This is confusing of course. But, when you say that 1.5 showed no positive result at all, it becomes a sus and the credibility of such experiments gets a big question mark. You can say, I'm biased towards bigger length but how can I not be. These RU-vidrs are showing their full journeys from the start. The online posters (individuals) who have no gain or loss from this matter are doing the same. I know you are already aware about such huge imbalance in this matter. I just don't know why it didn't confuse you.
@@rohondas2179 From memory the video didn't say it doesn't work but that there is a possibility that at such depths you might actually harm the part of the hair you don't want to. The studies say that 0.5-0.8 is best which translates to 1-1.2 for rolling (or something like that) which is not the same as with derma-pens. The types of anecdotal evidence that you talk of is going to be biased with a self selected sample type of person. Ie. people willing to go deeper are probably more desperate for results and therefore more likely to be consistent with treatment. You'd be surprised how many treatments fail due to the failure of the participant simply failing to keep up with the actual treatment. And with all these anecdotal treatments, what sort of controls were in place to isolate the effects of derma needling from other things that might also be having an affect on regrowth, like Minoxidil? Why would you trust anecdotal evidence over actual methodical studies? He previously said at least twice before that bigger studies need to be done with a more consistent approach as their meta study revealed that it was difficult to draw many conclusions from all the various studies that had already been done as a result. And that's the main problem with anecdotal evidence but x10: everyone does their own thing and you have no way to know what types of controls are in place or how closely they followed any specific regime. In the end if you don't want to believe the study then don't believe it and use the deeper depth. You don't need anyone's permission to do your own thing. But you can't blame him for not quoting anecdotal evidence as evidence.
C est parfaitement bien avec la traduction en français, intéressant aussi vos commentaires cela aide à comprendre pour pouvoir l essayer plus en confiance
Hmmm, I always felt (based on the pain felt and how red the area become) different part of the scalp required different lengths. Front part and crown upto 0.5 to 0.7mm. Side and back of the head upto 1.2 to 1.5mm, nape of the neck 1.5 to 1.8mm. I consider redness as the right depth indicator as thats whats making the flood flow to fix the damage. Maybe it will differ from person to person on how thick the skin is at each part of the head, the settings i mentioned was for my shaved head.
You're right! Skin thickness changes across scalp regions, and across ages & severity levels of androgenic alopecia. This makes it incredibly hard to discern the exact depth of hair follicle stem cells everywhere, and for every single individual. I think 0.5-0.8mm is a great approximation of the "best" current needling depths, but it may not apply to everyone.
@@PerfectHairHealthHey Rob!! You're changing lives man! Thanks from India Please give your insights on topical dutasteride in a video like you did for topical finesteride I'm starting topical dutasteride but confused about the dosage
Hi... I have been micro needling (0.5mm) for about a year in every Thursday in the apex of fronto temporal triangle. I have seen improvement though it's not much. But baby hair can be seen and further recession has stopped (i think). I don't use minoxidil cuz i just only want to stop the recession. The targeted area isn't shiny as it used to be before dermarolling. Baby hair are more visible when the scalp is wet. I have taken some pictures in June and September 2023 and comparing with pictures I can definitely say I have seen improvement. P.s. I am also taking multivitamins and sorry for any grammar mistakes, English isn't my first language.
Hi bro do you see baby hair to fall out more as my condition is also getting good as my thick hairs are not falling now that much, around 15 to 20 daily but I am seeing baby hairs falling out so much
@@zenithsharma7460 yes...baby hairs fall off but they grow again. They don't get thick. My main concern is to prevent further recession and to increase collagen production. You should not worry about baby hairs. Just make sure you are getting enough protein and vitamins...
@@PerfectHairHealthHey Rob!! You're changing lives man! Thanks from India Please give your insights on topical dutasteride in a video like you did for topical finesteride I'm starting topical dutasteride but confused about the dosage
Been only using 1.5mm but no medicine or topical products. Twice a week. Light bleeding. After 8 months I can honestly say that there’s a slight improvement. Is it perfect? No. Is it better? Yes.
I'm doing what Mr.English recommends with needle length, .05 mm, I'm doing this twice a week & I'm alternating using 5% minoxidil & castor oil. I just started, I'll report back in 5- 6 weeks with results, good or bad! The reason I'm using castor oil is I'm getting unbelievable results using it on my face for smoother skin & wrinkles! I'm 63
@@PerfectHairHealth thank you!🙏🏼 Very much appreciated! I own the largest evidence based fitness channel in my country, and I always enjoy watching more evidence based videos, and you have an amazing quality! I'll continue recommend people in my country to watch your videos!👌🏼
@@PerfectHairHealthHey Rob, will you upload a video on using FDA drugs and massaging/micro needling and everything that doesn't require expensive procedures like PRP?
Hey Rob!! You're changing lives man! Thanks from India Please give your insights on topical dutasteride in a video like you did for topical finesteride I'm starting topical dutasteride but confused about the dosage
Thank you for putting these datas and information together for all of us. You are the shining light for all balding people. Hair loss was never my concern until recently, but here I am... Hit us with some good news my man.
Oh dang! Ive been using a Dr. Pen at 1.75-2.00mm and stamping at 2.5mm, and it was so painful I had to take a break from doing it weekly. With this new information I will get back into a routine! Thank you for the information!
@@futurebreedmachine9302 yeah, I have to try and measure the depth of the needle stabes. I will say using it at 0.8mm is a breeze and barely even hurts compared to 1.75mm
@@mrgekko6386 Very painful but I did have hair growth. I couldn't continue it though because of the pain. I am now using 0.8mm once a week and its a walk in the park compared to what I was doing.
Thank you very much for the informative video! Would greatly appreciate a video demonstrating how to use an automated pen on the scalp and all the nuances that may come with that.
I'm glad to hear this. I've been microneedling at 1.5mm depth and it's honestly just so uncomfortable. Being able to reduce the depth to a more comfortable level AND get potentially better results is just a win-win.
Awesome man thank you SO much... I really struggled getting past the 1mm thinking every time I should try to pull through the pain! Your video is a relief !!!
Glad to have a Dermatologist like you who is Semi active on YT as well :7 also my hair has almost completely stopped falling out after 20+ days .thanks Rob ❤ Just a note of appreciation
I like to view myself as a non black pilled reliant naturalist meaning I mostly rely on the massages (twice a day) and natural hair oils to stabilize my hair miniaturization (I have nothing against Kevin man) I do not use a Derma Rollers but I heard 1.5mm was the most effective range
A great rule of thumb is the perfect length should cause redness but no bleeding. Everyone has slightly different scalp thickness. For me 0.7mm has produced amazing results. Also split test everything. Do 1/2 of your scalp at 0.5mm and the other half at 0.7mm (or whatever lengths you want to test) for a while and you will have a scientific case study of which works better for you.
I have used both 0.5mm & 1 mm. I Noticed that with 0.5mm I’ve seen better improvement in my hair growth and I used to think why. Thankgod now there’s a study that proves that. Will start using it again. Thanks for the video👍
I watched a video a while ago and (can't remember the channel) and the guy got great results from doing 0.5mm (derma roller, but he was stamping it) daily. I also shortened my needle length to 0.5mm and decided to do it more often (a couple times per week). I suspect also the extra blood flow caused by microneedling more often could be beneficial.
I used a roller for 6 months.. It didn't do anything. Switched to dr. Pen. 5 months now. It definately fuzzed up my vellus hairs. No cosmetic growth here, but i value the results . Also.. i would start at 1mm depth at the back and drop 0.25 increments as i go forward. Hairline gets 0.25mm. Otherwise i swear im hitting bone.. the pain is unbearable.
Since i practice breathing technique and practice calmness,my scalp dermatitis,itchy and hair loss reduce,and my hair texture improve, it’s weird but i’m gonna keep experimenting with it.
The caveat is as you go deeper you need more healing time... I have not read the study but by the way you communicate they applied all groups with the same frequency. This is the weak point, more recovery time with the deeper wounds may have better results than the shorter wound group over time. I use different lengths and the frequency depends on my (subjective) healing time, this is the best way to be sure of benefits in my opinion
Excellent video, I just try my very first needling last week with 1mm stamp, I pressed too hard with good amount of blood, lucky to watch this video so soon
The question then arises: If regrowth is decreasing with needle length, without a no-treatment group how do we know that this monotherapy does not actually inhibit regrowth, and that all groups in the study did not perform worse than if they had not been treated at all?
Such a good point about the limitations of the study. I also wish they had done one with 0.25mm to see if the benefits taper off or if THAT is optimal.
True but this supports prior science of .5 mm. I would like to see the .25 study as well. A ton of hair loss studies have been done and the placebos are not like that of this .5 mm group (or 1.5 mm for that matter).
In his video of his scientific review about hair growth studies (from 2 years ago), he said that 7 to 14 days between sessions seems optimal, but there's not a lot of studies about this.
Did my research and have found 1mm is the best for skin and scalp. I oil my scalp every morning with rosemary, argan or Jajoba oils. I microneedle once a week. I also eat two pasture raised free range eggs every day. I also eat grass fed beef. My hair is growing faster, thicker, and stronger.
There are still some unanswered questions for me: 1. Should you apply treatment like Minoxidil on the day of Microneedling? 2. How often should you microneedle?
Also yes use Minoxidil and also keep your hair short to not lose motivation to use Minoxidil because the longer the hair gets the more you wash your hair with Minoxidil instead of actually going into the scalp
Very interesting. Thank you. 😊 My guess would have been a much longer length. Good to know that short is better since that is less uncomfortable and bleeds less. I would imagine that the perfect length would be different depending on the person's individual skin thickness.
Same bro. Do you think the light pressure on a 1.5mm would theoretically yield the same results as a 0.5mm? As long as you achieve a certain "redness" per session? Not necessarily pinpoint bleeding. @PerfectHairHealth
Can you please talk about microneedling fibrosis ? I’m doing prp and mesotherapy and the nurse said it was a thing, an also just watched the hair cafe guy video about your video and he also mentioned it. Thanks nice video !
Hey man! Several months ago, I consulted with HairDAO to identify regulatory pathways for testing an experimental intervention. As a result, I’ve met both Andrews (the founders) over video calls. As far as I can tell, they’ve got a few really interesting projects in their pipeline, and I hope the one I got to see moves to a clinical trial.
@@PerfectHairHealth Oh cool, were you the one who worked with Jumpman ? He's part of their core team (working group). He created the "Jumpman Cure Protocol" and several people have started it. I just came from their Twitter and you were mentioned alongside him so I was curious if you worked with him as well. I'm assuming you've seen their discord?
Oh interesting! I haven’t worked with Jumpman, but it’s possible we worked on the same project and I didn’t know it (my scope was really narrow). I’m not involved with the Jumpman Cure Protocol. I do know about their discord, but since I’m not a member, I am out of the loop with the discussions. I will check this out, thanks a ton for telling me about it.
Please a video on transplants of crown area also a video on diiffuse thinning hair transplants. I mean dpa not dupa. I have heard its better not to do transplants in dpa to increase density. A video on that
@@mortius9319- hello do you use pen or roller? Which brand found best? And day use pen or roller not using minoxidil but use minoxidil on all ohter days? Thanks on update.
@@l4rs193 i was on both topical 5%Minoxidil and finasteride & Dutasteride. Finasteride in the morning and Dutasteride at night, even after 3 years on it my hair was falling like crazy. I lost about 60% of my hair but I've started using a Microneedle pen at 2.5 every Monday and its grew my hair back to most of all my hair.
0.6-0.8mm, weekly. After 10 months not much result. 1.5mm weekly, definitely much, much better. after 3 months. Anyone had same experience ? TBH I hate the pain with 1.5mm, and switched back to 0.6mm once. Then loss > growth again. Had to switch back to 1.5mm. Plus vitamin C 500mg once per 12 hours, and mega B daily
Hey Rob!! You're changing lives man! Thanks from India Please give your insights on topical dutasteride in a video like you did for topical finesteride I'm starting topical dutasteride but confused about the dosage
Great video, and quite lovely that we don't need to torture ourselves with more than 1 mm needles. Would love to know if the same recommendation applies for overall facial skin rejuvenation.
I have read studies on that and what i remember you need pin point bleeding and the thickness i different on different areas on the face so you may need different lengths on the face, look at Pubmed får the studies.
i used 1mm derma roller and it worked for me using it for almost a year now replacing it every 3 months. i can see blood on the roller but not on my head , only redness on the skin. frequency once a week is good enough.
But in terms of *absolute* results, which was superior, the 0.5mm in this study, or the 0.6mm in that other study? I tried both 1.5 and then 1mm 1x/week in the past, but I couldn't keep it up due to how terribly painful it was. I thought lower depths didn't do much if you weren't using a topical (which was my case). I'm gonna try 0.6~0.7mm now and see what happens. Depending on how quickly it heals, and how it feels, I might even try doing it more often, twice maybe thrice a week. At the old depths my scalp was sore for a good 2-3 days. Hopefully at half the size it's better.
Hello - which brand device to use in past? Will use new brand device at the smaller needle depth? In past with your device any approx idea how many times over the area - was just once or maybe 3 to 5 times? Thank you much with any feedback.
interesting video/information. have assumed a deeper depth, more like tattoo depth, 1-1.25. have always used a 1.25 needle with a pen being cognizant of actual penetration depth over needle size. certain areas were extremely sensitive that now are not, crown mainly, and have seen significant hair recovery (while including other therapy modalities as well). taken an almost 3 month planned break and when starting back will try lowering the needle depth. question: like the video you did showing the older guy who fell in the fire place and burned his scalp and regrew his juvenile hairline, has there been experimental therapies for (deep?) chemical peels of the scalp to generate hair regrowth? did see NIH article about use in AA (Alopecia Areata) with success. thanks for sharing!
@@ytsux9259 depends on what tattoo artist you ask and literature you read and going that deep causes a lot more blowouts and i said "more like". dumbass-pay attention instead of just openly showing your illiteracy and lack of comprehension skills.
To my knowledge, I haven't seen any clinical studies assessing scalp peels and hair regrowth. However, there's a procedure called autologous split-grafting, where the first few layers of skin are peeled off and transplanted to burned skin on the same person. One of the preferred locations on children is (literally) the entire scalp, mainly due to its dense concentration of stem cells. The long-term studies show (for almost everyone) no visible scarring, and no hair loss. I've personally wondered what would happen if the same procedure were performed in conjunction with medical therapy (dutasteride, minoxidil, immunosuppressants) on a completely bald scalp. Would the hairs regrow with a larger (and deeper) wounding surface area? Obviously, zero people would ever sign up for such a study, and short of burn victims actively opting into such an experiment immediately following a burn, I doubt it'll ever be conducted. But I do feel like wound-healing pathways, in the future, will unlock new levels of hair regrowth. We're in the early days of experiments for these mechanisms!
@@PerfectHairHealth great answer and thank you for taking the time! agree, it makes sense that wound-healing pathways (especially the (currently) extreme?) will create some dramatic effects in the future. seen some crazy face skin peels (only in videos) that were "wow". also, looked up some images for autologous split-grafting to be sure i was understanding the reference-and yeah can see why that study would be difficult to manifest… maybe a study of one square inch? hahaha
Hey Rob, I really appreciate how passionate you are in your research. Do you have any provisional recommendations or suggestions for microneedling the face to help fix a patchy beard? Ive got a few weak spots on each side that drive me nuts. I've been derma stamping (0.5 mm) my beard region once every 5 days, with a thin layer of castor/peppermint oil daily. I cannot use monoxidil due to strong sensitivity reasons. It's only been a month so far so not much to report. Thank you and have a great day.
According to Rob’s previous video on micro needling, yes. Minoxidil alone is similar to micro needling alone. The two add up to produce twice the results.
I read that microneedling will cause scar tissue overtime, making future hair transplant procedures less effective. Can you do a video on this subject?
People microneedle their faces regularly for long periods of time and don't seem to have scarring. You could for example go and look at Claudia Glows, she's been doing it for years. 🙂 But yes a video on the subject would be good. 😊
Rob, I’ve been doing your massages since 2021 and I m so glad I found you. I will remember you even when I ll be 80 😂 I m planning to make my own topical finasteride ( 0.005% ) into 60ml 5% minoxidil My questions are : 1. Is it ok to use 5mg pills ? 2. Is it still effective 1ml per day? Thanks !
@@spectrefzier4626 actually I tried that dose for more than 2 weeks and I didn t felt like before. I m speaking of erection here. I quit and I m perfect now
@@ranaadnan78690 brother, at the beginning I did them 2 times a day, minoxidil and dermapen. Now after some breaks and a few years, i do like 3-4 times a week, 20-25 min . It definitely helped me. The thickness of my hair and maybe slowed down a bit the receding. I d definitely try in your case, give it 5-6 months and see what s happening
Your video keeps showing the cheap bad purple microneedle roller. Those ones are like hundreds of little knives not needles, increasing the chance of skin damage. Use the ones with a green plastic roller. The plastic is clear green colour, has lass needles around 192, not the purple 540 ones. You can also see the needles are round not square. They're a little bit more expensive but not by much. I've tried both and the green ones definitely work better. They hurt less and penetrate to the correct depth. Great info though! Appreciate your research 😃
Thank you so much for all this amazing info. How often were they microneedling and for how long? I also wonder on the device which speed setting they'd choose.
Awesome. I've been stamping with 0.5mm needle length for some time now and have seen minor improvement. I have relatively thick scalp so I was wondering if I should go deeper since I very rarely notice any redness or bleeding. I'll give 0.75mm a try. Thanks
As someone who does face microneedling consistently I can attest that for pens you need to select the proper amount of pins in the cartridge, 36 needles will not go as deep as the 12 needles.
I still have a good amount of hair, infact I get comments like your lucky since you don’t have hair loss etc. I use a pen and once used head with more than 12 needles and it pulled allot of hairs out. I only use 12 needles since this traumatic experience 😂😂😂 So it might also depend on you’re status and thickness of the hair.¿
@@mehditalibhello - which brand pen are you using? And do use minoxidil - if so not on day use the pen? Just use minoxidil on all other days at twice per bottle recommendation? Thank you for any update?
I was sad I only got a 0.75 mm one, and should have gone for the longer ones. But now I feel happy! Also, it does actually work, but I am using minoxidil, ketoconazole shampoo and Saw Palmetto too.
Hi Rob! How many microneedling sessions per month? Is it like once per week? Or once every 2 weeks? Or once per month? U didn't answer that! Or it might be that I've missed... Plz can you mention again, thank you ❤
Great video, but do you have a remedy for topically minoxidil and microneedling causing seborrheic dermatitis conditions worse? I have tried various antibacterial shampoos, scalp peelings, but due to all that flakes cannot continue my journey with minoxidil and needling.
A quick perplexity search of "does alcohol based topicals make seborrheic dermatitis worse?" shows that the alcohol content of your daily or twice daily topical minoxidil is probably making your dermatitis worse. I'd swap to oral/sublingual minoxidil anyway (it's just better) but especially if you have dermatitis.
@@dannii_L How would oral minoxidil achieve the same effect of locally blocking the DHT from docking to the scalp? I don't see how this is remotely the same...
I don't understand why you recommend 1mm-1.25mm for Dermarollers. Even if we don't get the full depth with those devices, it's hard to imagine the "depth loss" is more than 30%. I started micro needling just last week and went for a 0.75mm roller. It seems to me like I picked a good length.
He is referring to a study which concluded that only about 50-70 % of the derma roller needle length reaches into your scalp. You can see it in his old Microneedling Video from 2021.
@@mastermind_00 I don't know about the specific study, but I think we should differentiate between someone who just randomly buys a device on Amazon without looking into the topic deeply and someone who is actually informed and watches videos like this. With casual application I can see why it would only give you 50% depth, but once someone knows that it's important to press down while using the device, I don't see why we can't assume 70-95% penetration depth. This is especially true for the shorter length rollers where pain won't be too much of a hindrance.
Thank you for your amazing work, I watched your tutorial on making Topical finasteride And I wonder can i dissolve finasteride pill into Rosemary mint oil ?
Thanks a lot for your research and resources. Is there info on a topical fin + microneedling routine? A routine that doesn’t lead to fin going systemic? Should I just microneedle once a week and avoid top fin the day of needling (while using the fin dose recommended in your top fin video)? Or should a lighter top fin dose be used?
