MIDI Clock and your DAW: How To Sync Your Synths 

Fantastic, glad to hear it!

Thank you for the kind words!

I agree. Back in the OLD days (grey hair showing here) MIDI was tight, not as tight as CV/gate, but still far better than USB MIDI is today. I'm *really* holding out hope for USB 2.0 to fix this mess, with fabulous, well-written, low-latency drivers. You're right that Cubase can compensate latency, and it does so fairly well...but there's no way any DAW can compensate for jitter, and we get unstable printed audio as a result. Some synths are FAR better at this than others. Many digital synths today are really poor at syncing their internal clock to MIDI clock consistently.

Thanks Devin!

For the most part, they shouldn't have this problem. When the old synths see a clock signal, they drive their entire internal clock slaved to that clock signal. They are not like these modern synths that are bound permanently to their own internal clock, and whose idea of clock sync is to measure the incoming MIDI clock, and then try to set their internal clock to the same value. That process is what causes the problem I demonstrate in this video.

@@ScottsSynthStuff Great, can't wait to try this with my DAW on my DW8000. Thanks.

If the synth is set to "external clock" or "clock auto" (where it switches to external clock when it sees one), then the only thing left to do is to tell your DAW to send a MIDI clock to your synth. Some DAWs send MIDI clock only when playing/recording, others can be configured to send MIDI clock all the time. You usually have to configure in your DAW which MIDI devices it's going to send MIDI clock to. How that is done is different in every DAW.

USB *usually* works, but DIN MIDI *always* works. I try USB first, if it has any issues, I use DIN MIDI. USB has a bit better latency than DIN MIDI.

It does matter when you start using things in the synth that are BPM-synced, like LFOs and especially arpeggios - it will literally play the wrong notes, out of time until it syncs up, which is why you want a solid lock BEFORE the notes begin to play.

@@ScottsSynthStuff ah, you mean that the tempo will still be changing slightly at the start of the recording? That would be problematic indeed!

@@mrblablablabla Exactly. It needs that extra bar to finish syncing its tempo and adjusting its internal BPM to match.

@@ScottsSynthStuff thanks for the clarification! Any advice on solving midi issues (devices not showing up in software)?

Especially when that protocol is decades old! I wish all the companies would just strictly standardize everything period. Like wtf? Stop screwing around and torturing us it's hard enough to be creative with all the other technical BS getting in the way!

I don't use Ableton, so I can't really make a suggestion for this - I can tell you that in Cubase (which I use), it just takes care of MIDI, audio and plugin latency automatically. It just "fixes" it in the background without you doing anything or even realizing that it's occurring.

Sounds like automatic delay compensation issue...

don't use plugins, use outboard fx for sound design and multitrack record all audio together. use plugins afterwards once all audio is recorded. Also if you use an analog sequencer to send midi to your devices and just use Ableton to record thee audio you will have nice tight sync and the hardware groove and nuance.

Most are connected via USB (through a bunch of USB hubs) - mainly because most of these digital synths require USB for their librarians/editors to function. Others are connected via DIN MIDI, through a MOTU MIDI interface.

@@ScottsSynthStuff Thanks so much!

Aghhhhh!!! Why do we all have to deal with this?!? 🤬

I have sent an arpeggiator from Cubase out to my Korg and it works fine. I think it does go out via simple midi. You may already have figured this out, I see that your comment is from 4 months ago - just saw it now.

Normally the sequencer would be sending MIDI clock out, and in most cases it's going to be constant, so you likely aren't going to have to worry about start/stop clock sync on your digital synth trying to keep up.

@@ScottsSynthStuff Thanks! Still a bit confusing when you connect Summit to the pc, that it does seem to have issues to sync with the pc midi/usb clock.. I Assume that having a good mixer that also supports midi/usb clock sync, would be needed to maybe also avoid that latency problem?!.. Anyway it is good to see you also found a workaround for this.. keep jamming, cheers!

Yes, there are ways of doing that, most commonly with an external clock source, like an ERM Multiclock. IT becomes the master clock, and the DAW (and all the other hardware) syncs to it.

@@ScottsSynthStuff so would you disable the other clocks in all of the synths ?

I was a C64 programmer back in the day. :)

@@ScottsSynthStuff yeah man. LOAD "*", 8,1 🤓

It depends on the device. Some allow simple USB connections and route MIDI over USB. Some require MIDI - I've had great results with MOTU MIDI interfaces, although now that my studio has expanded, I use a (much more capable and far more complex) iConnectivity mioXL.

I wonder if you have a MIDI loop going on? You might need to turn Local mode off on the Matriarch, and rely on Nuendo to send the notes back to it? It depends on how things are configured.

@Scott's Synth Stuff thanks for the reply. I turned off All Midi Inputs in Windows Midi. Looks like I did have a loop going on. Seems to be working fine now. Thanks so much🙏🏽

I've had the same thing happen in Cubase with a couple of synths. I haven't put a MIDI monitor on it to see exactly what happens when something loops in the DAW to cause this, but it's clearly a small glitch in the stream (probably the MIDI clock?) when the DAW loops that causes this sort of thing to happen.

@@ScottsSynthStuff I need to try and recreate it in a different DAW possibly or see how other synths react. It’s interesting each synth behaves a bit differently like you pointed out.

MIDI thru box is one solution if you’re using midi for daw to synth. Midi merge box for synths to daw. Alternatively usb hub if that’s your choice of cable (assuming your synths / controllers have usb!). Hope that helps.

It's a mix of a MOTU micro lite MIDI interface - amzn.to/38U0yBs - which plugs into a USB port and gives you five independently addressable MIDI in/out connections, and USB connections. Most synths today give you MIDI over USB, and many of them REQUIRE USB in order to use their librarians or other custom functionality. So I have some large USB hubs into which the synths plug into, and those go into my DAW PC. So with a mixture of the MOTU MIDI connections and the USB connections, they're all hooked up at once.

A bit pricey but fantastic solution is a MioXM from IConnectivity. It has support for 5 pin, usb and ethernet connections.

You can use a MIDI interface to connect them via DIN MIDI, or pretty much every synthesizer made over the past few years also has a USB connector, and can route MIDI over USB. Even synths that don't have an arp or sequencer still do the same thing, they can sync things like LFO rate, or FX delays, etc.

@@ScottsSynthStuff hey, great video. Could you please explain how to sync the lfo rate to bpm between hardware synth and DAW

It depends. In the "old days" MIDI through ports were exactly that - a hardwired, electronic (well, optoisolated) connection from the IN to the THROUGH port, so no delay. Every synth on the MIDI chain got the same signals at the exact same instant, no delay and no lag. Then came microprocessor-driven digital synths and cost reductions. The "through" port was removed as a cost reduction, and instead you could (if needed) switch the "out" port to function as a "through." If you did this, the processor inside the synth would read the data from the IN port, and re-send it out the OUT port. In doing so, it introduced a bit of lag. Daisy chain a bunch of these together, and you can get significant lag from the first device to the last device in the chain. But if you're using classic synths with a proper "through" port, there is no lag at all. Today, with the advent of inexpensive USB to MIDI interfaces that give you multiple MIDI ports on a single USB connection, every device can have its own dedicated MIDI port without having to daisy-chain, so this type of lag is no longer an issue.

Did you figure this out?

@@anonymous_friend the only way of doing that is using a erm multiclock

The hardware sequencer will still send MIDI clock, which will sync any other synths that require MIDI clock for something (arpeggiator, clocked effects, etc). If you aren't using any sounds on other synths that require MIDI clock to play correctly, then you don't need to have the hardware sequencer send it. The note on and off data is separate from MIDI clock.

@ScottsSynthStuff ok so i use my MPC as a sequencer to sequence all my synths and drum machines, all of which don't require Midi clock to play correctly like you said. Does enabling clock send just ensure that all of them are using the same tempo? Kinda like how a conductor directs an orchestra?

@@miles46100 Exactly. MIDI clock makes sure they are all at the same tempo, so any tempo-derived effects (arps, delays, etc) are synced up.

@ScottsSynthStuff thanks so much. I was so confused as to whether or not i needed to enable midi clock.

One more question: so if i didn't have a standalone sequencer, if I assigned one of my drum machines as the master, and did midi out and in to the other slave instruments, when i press play on my master clock instrument, would it just start to play patterns that i have preprogrammed in the other instruments? Like on my Roland boutiques, they have their own step sequencers, so my master clock would just prompt them to play sequences that i programmed into them beforehand, except to the tempo of my master clock/drum machine, and it would just loop. Hopefully that makes sense.

If the drift becomes worse and worse over time, that is not jitter. That can only be caused by a) missed MIDI clock signals or b) a synth that is using an internal tempo slaved to external MIDI clock, and it's not following quite right.

I have not...thje Microfreak has been added and removed to my Sweetwater shopping cart several times, but I've never actually bought one (although I played with one at Sweetwater before).

@iambeetle I had a bunch of issues with it, and arturia tech support helped me out. Now that I’m checking it, it’s still finicky, but basically it’s this: in Logic open project settings, click midi, and check clock next to arturia microfreak (it should be a destination if it’s connected via usb). Also, if you’re recording midi info on an external instrument track make sure that the midi in port (on the far left side of the screen under the track settings) is is set to ONLY microfreak and not all, like it defaults to. For me, the arpeggiator would play in time once and then stop. Just now as I was testing I had to press utility on the microfreak and set the clock to usb and then back to auto.

@@zhexum thanks Zack, I am also talking to Arturia tech support now. And they said they understand my issue and will log it as something to work on for future firmware update. My issue is different but not rare. Because I need to play the microfreak live with my band’s drummer’s logic track live, I will have to change patches during the song, and that cause the sync to not work, because microfreak needs a “start” message to align the bear, and logic only sends the “start” once when the play button is hit… so yah… no solution for now for me, but I really hope they can fix it, it is kinda a deal breaker for me…

Yup...I have an RC505 MKII that does not play nice with anything else unless it is the master, so I just have to reconfigure everything when I want to use that thing.

Wavestation was/is notorious to slow MIDI response. I never wave sequences as a pseudo sequencer - only to morph between waves that were similar (like the VS set). It's depressing to see how some of the modern synths w/ arpeggios are so bad. I have a SQ-64 which thankfully sync's very well to MID clock via Digital Performer and their MIDI timestamp tech. I also have moved to using clock pulse via the audio interface to modular clock-in. Extremely tight.

Music IS applied mathematics.

@@ScottsSynthStuff Yes it's true, all music is based on mathematic rules...but with midi hardwares this aspect is even more relevant.

Which one do you recommend or think is best?

MIDI really isn't that difficult - you can make it complex, but for the most part, you just plug things in and it works. You might need to learn about MIDI channels, but in this day and age of modern multiport MIDI interfaces, with a dedicated MIDI interface for each instrument, that's no longer as important as it was back in the 1980's.

Yo why tf did he heart this