Midnight Mass: Christianity and Trauma 

That's a really interesting reading of that aspect.

That is a GREAT insight. This angle didn't occur to me in the slightest. Good stuff, dude

Oh my good I hadn’t considered that. That’s… damn that’s deep.

Oooh, I forgot about the mouse story. It's such an apt comparison to how good intent can create some very terrible situations. Riley had to learn about death in a far more grave way than the dying mouse. While a real person might not be so affected, in this story, it kind of echoes his DUI homicide. Riley never experienced realistic death on the island and was unprepared for the real world

I'm glad you enjoyed it! There definitely is a lot of inversion of christian concepts, I just did not have much to say about them in the context of the grander themes, as most of them are just an extension of the most important inversion: the inversion of the relationship with death and life everlasting, and bringing them up was a drag on the script; that was I think one of the first things I cut from it. I killed so many darlings on this script.

Another bit of subversion I noticed is biblical concept of becoming "fishers of men", where Jesus called upon his first disciples to cast down their nets to follow him. Paul basically forces this fishing village to cast aside their nets by making them unable to go out into the morning light and disabling their boats. Then he calls upon them to become fishers of men to spread his "gospel".

@@TheNumnutRandomness god, yes! It's all so very, very well done. I also read the whole thing as shade against Apostle Paul but that might just be because I think Apostle Paul was genuinely one of the worst things that ever happened to Jesus' message.

Agree, Ive been waiting for something like this since the series came out.

I've been a pastor for over 20 yrs and a Christian for 36 yrs. What I noticed in the priest and Bev was a lot of scripture twisting. Some have said you can make the Bible say about anything if you take it out of context. These two showed this to be true.

Weirdly I liked Ooker and Sturge's dumb moment. Not because I liked either of them - they're both jerks and well played as jerks - but because it felt like they had to talk to each other because no one else was on their level. They were both sort of just minions who did unforgivable shit at someone else's command. It felt like if either of them got a more insightful forgiveness than that in their conversational partner it might look like a person talking to a fridge.

Our personal hells have their own satans. And those satans wear our faces. Meaning we are our own brother's keepers.

Forgivnezs is always for ourself not others, her forgiveness has no power to change how he feels when he cant forgive himself

Joe hurts my heart at a deep level. I wish he had gotten that chance too.

Yeah. The realization that Joe would never truly have that second chance on life or the opportunity to make amends…

This scene was the most devastating next to the row boat scene with Riley

Your words are so powerful. Thank you so much

A year late, *but*! From what I could glean about Joe, is that he was a drunk *before* the incident, but it seems like he became an *addict* after he shot Leeza. As in, all these 'good Christians' saw what he did while drunk as a deliberate and malicious act against Leeza, and so treated him as an outcast, which ironically pushed him *deeper* into the booze, instead of helping him to clean up his act a lot sooner. It's the same way that people saying 'oh, you're dressed' or 'oh you finally washed' to depressed people often only makes them retreat deeper into their bad habits, lethargy, and apathy, while acceptance of these changes as a symptom and not the disease *encourages* them to keep fighting and putting in the effort to change them. There's also the fact that - Pike loved Joe. From what I recall, Pike was not on a lead, meaning that Joe put time, effort and care into that dog's upbringing and training to allow him to follow Joe about without needing a lead. We see that in how Joe absolutely breaks down, showing how soft he was inside, how much he loved the dog, referring to him as 'my baby!', and how he admonishes the unknown (Bev the Biatch) poisoner and the townspeople as a whole for taking out their disgust and hatred towards him on the dog.

I am really glad you liked it! 💜

Oh shit it’s Jessie

I see a Jessie comment and I know I can stick around! 🫂🫂🫂

"There is no hate quite like Christian love". Quite an ignorant statement to make.

​@@THE-WAY_THE-TRUTH_THE-LIFE. Sadly its been true for a long while now. I hope that changes as a Christian

the first reply comes to prove most of us don't recognize any truth in it. We have to understand people who understand the Christianity's institutions and it's leaders problems are a minority in christian dominated countries (such as US and my country as well)

​@@THE-WAY_THE-TRUTH_THE-LIFE.When a username like God Loves Everyone. His followers definitely do NOT love everyone..

@@timbirdie8180 It is not true at all. It is not even possible for hate to come out of Christian love. True pure Christian love is the same love that Jesus and The Father have for us. We know that Jesus and The Father do not create hate out of their love. Hatred/hate is that of the enemy. So how can hate come out of pure love? It's not possible. Do not call what is good evil, and what is evil good. If people are acting with hate, then that is simply not Christian love. "There is no hate quite like Christian love" is just an ignorant statement that comes from a misguided view point from not understanding fully. Problems like this are what creates atheism and luke warm Christians.

The Mary - Erin parallel flew over my head. Thats a fascinating read

Though abortion is never brought up in the show, the "miraculous miscarriage" feels like a (perhaps unintentional) commentary on how many Evangelicals are "pro-life", but the baby getting reabsorbed is a necessary sacrifice for "God's plan". So it was never about the child themself being precious to God, but exerting control over a person's body.

I'm Irish and can confirm all of this. I hated things there. I grew up in a very rural parish in Leitrim. I was the -only- queer. For miles.

@@TheNumnutRandomness I am pro life and felt bad about the baby.

What I thought was great about the show was how you feel about these people. You really liked them. Even the guy who accidentally shot the young girl parallelizing her got me to want to show compassion to him. When those people are all in the church and get snookered into drinking the poison I really felt bad for them. Great writing and acting.

Hot Priest Andrew Scott walked so that DILFy vampire priest Hamish Linklater could run!

We are all want the DILFy vampire priest

BOOOO! Team RILEY!

@@MeatyController Team sheriff Hassan my man... That god damn epic beard

Fleabag is that you

I’m so sorry. Sending you tight hugs from many miles away.

I had a young family member die of cancer as well. People kept telling his grieving mother that "it was all God's plan" and that his fate was "written by God" and atrocious things like that. I'm so sorry about your mom, may she rest in peace, and i hope you have good people in your life to support you through your grief. No one's pain should be used to preach about a religion like that.

I am glad it could be that for you

This is a beautiful way of phrasing it. I cried during the show and during the video and yeah, it is healing through all of those things. Thank you.

You have summed up all my own thoughts and my personal count of tears in this comment, im just here to say in the most serious tone I can, ditto

I hope you find love, understanding and support on your journey 💜

Im sorry you went through it too. 💜 Thank you for the comment.

The most real villain I have ever seen in media.

We have those here in Iowa too

I have met so many Christians like her I have lost count. There are kind and loving Christians, but the ones like Bev are louder.

Tbh the sexism coming from a lot of people around Bev is exhausting and it shows through in how they respond to Pruitt. I basically have only found one video(it was by Tazzy Phe and its on the muslim representation) that I have liked about the show. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-CZFlFkGSLMo.html

@@Aranock I had that video on my "To Watch" list when I saw your post about it on Twitter! Good, nuanced Midnight Mass content is unfortunately a rarity. How people respond to Bev vs Pruitt just really shows how someone can get away with anything if their language is "civil" enough and present themselves a certain way (and are from a certain demographic _cough_ ). Like people acting as though he's a kid who happened to be in way over his head. Who okay'ed the rat poison communion, I wonder? Or locking the congregation inside the church until they make "the choice"? 🙃

They will not love you if you follow Christ, man. They hated him and they'll hate you too. More Anti-Christian propaganda propagated by the industry machine. We should always aim for love, but because of the truth - they will always hate us. And be observant. Look around. Christ is on his way back.

@@UNEAKinfluence I'm a practicing Catholic. There is nothing anti-christian about this. That community was NOT Christian. That's the point. They were hypocrites. They were blind sheep. They allowed themselves to turn into a cult because unlike Christ, they assumed they were somehow better than everyone else. What's so Christian about judging others? About refusing to be kind to someone who made a mistake and needed a home? What's Christian about refusing to die with dignity and instead hurting others because you're afraid to die? Why should anyone think it's okay to insult another man's religion? Why should anyone think they're morally superior to anyone else? These are certainly NOT the traits of Jesus Christ and His followers. They way they treated the Muslim sheriff, they way the treated Riley Flynn.....it's all too familiar and it made me really uncomfortable. Human beings have often used religion to excuse horrendous behaviour. If this series makes you uncomfortable that's a good thing. Look inward and ask yourself if you truly follow the teachings of Christ or if you're just as self-righteous as Bev. I just want to add that Ed and Annie Flynn raised a decent son in Riley Flynn. It was subtle but by the end I could see why he was such a great character. Being a good person is not based on what religion you practice. Focus on living your life in a way that pleases God.

@@ehimenjuniorakhimien6132 I'm not sure what prompted this tirade of yours. But yes the church has been responsible for a lot of evil. Nobody is disputing that. It also has nothing to do with the subject matter at hand.

Narcissistic how? The call and greatest commandment of Christ is to love your neighbor. To love God and neighbor. To be so invested in the good and benefit of your neighbor that you might even die for them, even if they themselves aren't believers and even if they hate you. Too many people conflate the hatred they've experienced from corrupt, fallen, imperfect humans with that of "how it's supposed to be" in the Church. The living, beating heart of the true church of God has always been to reach out to a dying world and help heal it.

@@ceciliai.ogwude2845 beautifully said 🙏🏼

I'm sorry, and that's horrid that she did that to you. Both the homophobia, and the guilt tripping. I'm glad the section connected with you, but also sad that it was on such a sore spot. I hope things improve, and she stops placing her emotional wellbeing onto you in that way 💜

That means a lot from you, I respect your work a ton.💜

@@Aranock Yeah when Jessie is excited for your video, you know you're doing something right!

Thank you, I'll admit I have my days where my feelings towards christianity err on the Judith by Perfect Circle red hot anger end of feelings, that version of this script definitely could have existed, but it would have been worse for it. I always want to strive for nuance and understanding(its why Jessie and I work together really well). It was important to me to push against that sort of edgy atheist bs which I really dislike, and to be clear in my critiques of how religious institutions and people use religion for harm, and how thats not inherent to religion or religious belief. I'm glad you liked the video.

I'm so sorry you're dealing with that, I am struggling with similar issues due to my chronic illness and how dangerous it is for me if I get covid.

Yeah i feel you they will never ever admit when they are wrong or when theyve caused harm past or present

Yeah it was heavy and depressing, sickeningly depressing, they’re was not peace in resolution. Just a tragedy

Unfortunately, these horrors are plain reality for a lot of us that were raised religious

Thank you for sharing your story. I'm so sorry you've had to deal with those experiences, as a CSA survivor I can unfortunately relate on aspects of your experience and of having it minimized. And while our marginalized identities differ, as my friend Sara says "Bigotry rhymes, its the same tune different indtruments." I also know the feeling that my life doesnt matter to people around me, a lot of cis people do not care when trans people are killed. I also know how awful the grating "one of the good ones" nonsense is. I hope you are able to find healthier more supportive spaces. 💜🫂

I'm so happy it resonated with you, this comment means a lot. I hope you are doing well 💜

I am glad you liked it!

Leeza's "you stole my future from me" speech in the forgiveness section of that episode just destroyed me when I watched it. I really feel it when those types of comments happen "your trauma made you who you are" how do you know? How do I know? Because that future without trauma was stolen. I hope you get every bit of healing you can and things improve

@@Aranock I hope the same for you.

Thank you for sharing this, I had no idea that term contained that baggage I would not have used it if I did. The people who die from the sun at the end are not survivors, they died when they drank the coolaid and became vampires, outside of Ed Ali and Annie they were all murdering the other parts of the town, they are the members who followed Bev and Pruitt to forming a hate mob. The only survivors are Leeza and Warren, who do actually survive, and they are the kids which the heroes sacrificed themselves to save. Hassan and Erin die from natural causes they were not vampires.

@@Aranock I should probably watch the show to fully understand the context what happens at the end. From the images I got a bit of "redemption equals death"-overload, which is a trope I am rather ambivalent about.

It's also important to note that death wasn't a choice for any of the vampires on the island. Bev ordered her mob to burn every structure on the island down except the church rec center so that the turned would have to gather there to survive the day. Ali, realizing that the islanders planned to move on to the mainland where they'd massacre everyone else, chose to burn it down. While realistically the vampires probably could've found shelter of some sort, in the story they were all stranded out in the open when the sun rose. That said, the reactions of people like Bev (trying to bury herself in the sand/digging her own grave) as opposed to others (singing, praying peacefully) shows important character differences in the way that they react to their inevitable demise.

That's unfortunate considering how central forgiveness and how we treat it is to the show.

That scene between Joe and Leeza gave me such hope. I was crying, an emotional wreck. And then to have Flanagan yank that potential Joe had to live in that forgiveness was just painful.

People are sexist and it really shows in how they interpret Pruitt and Bev. Like god its so blatant. Bev is treated as the most evil thing in any media ever, and then they go "Pruitts just a little guy he didnt really do anything bad hes just a little guy 🥺👉👈" amd like idk who taught Bev that? Pruitt. Who caused all this? Pruitt. They both suck but my hackles get up at how some people discuss Bev

Omg I want to believe that you scared that woman away from the church for a year that's incredible. I'm sorry for the scrutiny you and your friend were subject to. That minister being supportive sounds lovely, I hope he does set up that group. Have a lovely day 💜

I am so sorry for what you have had to go through, and I say that with a lot more personal understanding than most. I find words are failing me in expressing how I feel to know that this video could help someone in this way. My art is often an act of self therapy, I always hope that in some way brings something to other people, to know its been this for you means the world, because I know what its like to have art that reaches you in this way. I wish you all the best in your recovery and I am glad you have good people around you it makes a big difference.

Thank you! I'm glad it resonated 💜

Yeah I experienced that exact scenario many times, sometimes they would even try force me to apologize because I had defended myself 🙃. Thank you for sharing, and for the compliment 💜

@@Aranock Gaslighting victimized children is highkey gross and damaging. ♡ Keep fighting the good fight!

💜

It would have been easy to just express my anger in a raw direct unproductive way and nothing else. But I think difficult complex topics need more nuance, and I appreciate when others express that I achieved that.

Thank you for sharing, I'm glad that the work connected, though wish you had not had to deal with things that connect so much to elements of the video. That "it's god's plan" stuff is just so upsetting when dealing with health things. I hope recovery goes well 🫂💜

Thank you so much for this. Wishing you all of the best on reconstruction and reclamation

@Aranock thank you! :) I guess my interpretation of Pruitt was that he's representative of a certain type of religious person, who with all the best intentions in his heart doesn't prioritise the agency of others. His end goal is driven by love for his community, that he wants to gift them what he feels he's been blessed with. Not out of wish for power or control, but because he sees only one right way to eternal life and is hell bent on gifting it to others regardless what they want, not because he doesn't care about them, but because he thinks it's right. But this is the what leads to the bigger problems. And justification of harm for "their own It's not a good thing, for sure, it's toxic faith, but it's paternalistic. Which I guess fits the fact he's the "Father" and the the community his "children." He found what he thought was his salvation and wants to share it, but by giving it to others, rather than by offering the choice. Like, he loved Sarah, and when she was dying he tried to "save her" with the blood, thinking it was the way he could offer her salvation and express his love. He wanted it when he was dying, so why wouldn't she? Problem with this sort of faith is that it is easily led astray and feeds into authoritarian Christianity. We've seen how these types of faith leaders have been caught up in supporting far right Christian Nationalism, without realising that's what they're doing (Bev being representative of that kind of power hungry faith and those who knowingly push it, and the monster being representative of the existential and spiritual harm she supports which Pruitt feeds with his misguidedness) I guess that's why I could forgive Pruitt, because he reminds me of many people I know who aren't bad people but unknowingly support a toxic system because of their misguided theology. He saw the error in his ways at the end, at least partially. Like, I don't personally think Pruitt meant to kill Joe, I think it was an accident which Bev convinced him was justified and then he just kept convincing himself of being God's work. So I think that paints Pruitt as an unwitting tool of evil, rather than a villain himself. I could be wrong. But that's kinda my interpretation of him. A pawn of the antagonist, rather than one himself.

@@KenjiWardenclyffe This is spot-on with my own interpretation of Pruitt.

@BARF who am I supporting

As a Catholic I am disguted by the hate you must have received. Muslims and Jews are sibling faiths but not even being Christian would protect you from their hate. I pray that one day they all leave the church and make it better and I do so for all relegions so we can live our faith with love and acceptance for all. ❤

@@timbirdie8180 Thank you. Your words are beautiful. 💗💗💗

Thank you so much 💜

Thanks for the kind words, what is episcopalian?

@@Aranock It's a branch of Christianity similar to Catholicism that allows women, LGBTQ+ individuals, and married people to be priests and bishops.

@@lauracamille4065 Interesting, I dont think bishops and hierarchies like them should exist lol

This comment means everything to me. It means that I achieved what I wanted to with this video and I just wish you the absolute best on that journey of healing and growth 💜.

I also wanted to add- Joe’s death left me so devastated and upset that I took a 2 week break from the show. I’d never felt so horrified before and had to process it before I could finish the narrative.

I'm sorry for your loss and that your dreams have been so cruel, I hope her memory can be a blessing. I am glad that I could be even a small source of comfort.

@@Aranock thank you, seriously. I'm hoping to get some grief counseling soon. Do you have any thoughts on that? Also I'd like to share some good news, I got promoted and got a 15% raise!

@@zachsniffin4395 If you can get access to get therapy/counseling etc then do it. I cant afford therapy rn but if I could I would. Congrats on the promotion 💜

There is a variety of reasons, one is definitely that some people don't like reconciling their attraction with how terrible of a person Pruitt/Paul is(he is an abuser and a manipulator and its so provable), but I would say the primary reasons are misogyny and engrained deference to authority figures. Both are results of societal messaging that engrain biases into people. People do not interpret harmful actions from men especially men in powerful positions, especially men in powerful positions within a religion, as harshly as they do anyone else. Thats why you will see someone be aggresively incredibly angry about Bev, but give a lot of "hes not that bad" to Pruitt/Paul.

Thank you for taking the time to listen 💜

I know youtube video essayists who don't use excellent clips and THEY'RE COWARDS

I did not miss it and was not distracted from it because I did not think it needed explicit statement and was tangential to the general discussion and points I was making. I actually cut the bit where I was going to talk about that section. I think your analysis misses several important aspects for why I did not spend time on that line or section much. First off its not unfortunate, which implies a lack of intentionality. He chose to be a part of that. Pruitt is part of a self perpetuating cycle of power that is self maintaining. "God has a plan and he moves in mysterious ways" is an ideological indoctrination tool for control. Pruitt does not agree with Riley on that point, to say he does undermines major aspects of his character in my opinion. I also dislike framing and focusing on the abuser as victim, especially in this case, as its a way of eliciting empathy for and placing the pain, and not the purposeful choices, of the abuser first. Idk maybe I am just very tired of people spending a lot of time trying to enhance feeling bad for Pruitt by reading into things that are not necessarily there. He spends the majority of the show reinforcing that he believes that everything is just god's plan, and that backstory is really only one small piece of support for this. Saying he does not have an answer is not accurate and contradicted by your next sentence, he has an answer, even if its one unsatisfying to you me or Riley. Pruitt genuinely holds his faith in this way, its comforting for him, and things being part of gods plan being a core tenet of his views is why Bev is able to convince him of certain things, because he wants to believe that. His belief that things happen because of gods will is also fundamental to his acceptance of death at the end of the show. This aspect of his character is never contradicted, and it requires really reading into to 2 relatively minor moments to view it that way. This is the 3rd or 4th time I have seen a downplaying of his agency in my comments alone, not to mention many times elsewhere, and I think it misses the mark because people like the character and want to lessen just how heinous he really is to feel better about liking him. Lets not forget that the "blessing" of everlasting life comes with the suffering of hunger. If anything him viewing suffering as a blessing is part of why he thinks becoming a vampire is god's will. He thinks the pain of the hunger is the angel and by extension god, acting through him. This is stated quite explicitly.

"Unfortunately" was a bad choice of words on my part, I don't mean to say that his past justifies what he did, he had agency and chose his path. I just think Alice's death could be one reason for the path he went down, not an excuse. I think Flanagan included those lines for a reason, I just brought them up because I found them interesting. And I didn't mean to imply you missed these lines personally, I've watched/read a lot of analysis and I've very seldom seen this point raised. It definitely passed me by the first time I watched it.

also i have heard ed’s speech almost word for word from my emotionally abusive father and that scene fucking destroyed me

Disguting. Deadnaming/misgnedering is so horrible not even being anti trans should allow it and the bible has nothing on condemning the disabled. The fact they did this is horrible if your oastor can support you go to them and if they cant I pray you have the help you need and I will do my part to not allow such hatred in my life. I am horrified at what the church has become for the past countless years.

Its interesting how art can tease out the deepest aspects of our experiences. I had wrote an outline for a script about much of this topic maybe 3 months before midnight mass released, then it did and it emotionally destroyed me for a bit and I right after finishing wrote about several thousand words of this script, taking elements of that older discussion of christianity and adding to it because of midnight mass. It really put in context my religious trauma.

@@Aranock There were parts of Pruitt's monologues that made me so uncomfortable I often had to pause or skip a bit, and afterwards I had to unpack why I felt that way. I think Midnight Mass really tapped into a familiar horror I didn't even realise was horror. Your video put into words what I was feeling perfectly!