Not shown here was actual aerial flights of real F4’s the whole series had a combo of live action and animation. So the budget for animation was less because chase planes and real F4 (and other warbird) aerials.
@@MarkHoltze maby a weird question but do you play war thunder? They have all those jets in this game.. very realistic aswell.. you can give it a try when you are bored at a time 😁
Not weird at all, I actually play DCS (digital combat flight simulator)...arguably the most realistic combat sim ;). Helicopters, jets and World War Two and Cold War birds. Not enough time these days to play much though. The Mig 21 is in it, meticulously detailed... ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-A-UJ4T-sbOY.html&app=desktop
Ya the guys who did the CGI *Pixrey* do amazing work. It looks even better at full resolution.The problem of course is that it's expensive and pretty time consuming. Dogfights was a great series, but only made possible with the slightly less detailed CG I believe.
Turns out the guns weren’t the problem with the f 4s. Main problem was that there missiles were not properly maintained. This was one of the main reasons the navy was able to actually improve there kill to death ratio from 3 to 1 to 13 to 1. Also the top gun program all went together to create a more effective force.
@@MarkHoltze One should consider that many of the MiG-21 variants fielded by the VPAF also lacked cannons altogether - and those that could carry a centre-line gun pod frequently sortied without one. (The theory being that the extra weight and drag of a gun pod was counter-productive - survival depended on a single high-speed missile pass and then running for the hills.) Any MiG-21 driver who got suckered into a turning fight with an F-4 had screwed up colossally and was almost certainly going to get killed by his opponent's wingman or flight-mate in short order - whether the F-4 had a gun onboard or not.
After years i will tell to my kids and nephews my dogfights from war thunder with Phantoms and MIGS at 10.7 BR and they will be proud of me. They will say to school tjat their grandfather and their dada was am F4 pilot that had dogfights with MIG 21S and also a mig 21 pilot that had dogfight with Phantoms
I remember this one time, at a model kit hobby store, this Vietnam pilot veteran told me as I was purchasing the MiG-21 1:72 scale, that when it came down to these dogfights, MiG pilots would fly at a lower altitude, because they knew the danger of fighting the F4, so when it came down to it, the pilots would never engage F4's but the Air Force would always talk about sending in a different kind of aircraft they knew, the Vietnamese WOULD engage, it was in a sense a mind game for them, they tricked the enemy but never sent the plane, so when the MiG's hear this particular plane was on it's way, they would increase altitude and instead of the expected plane they would be forced to engage the F4's Another story he told me was while he was posted in barracks, because he was ordered to, one of his mates took control of his helicopter, and on a miss his helicopter was shot down by a MiG-21 and told me that that engagement would go down in history as the first helicopter to be shot down by an jet.
F-4 couldnt out turn the 21, but it could out climb it easily, thats why it almost always fought it in the vertical. You use your strengths, and force them into your type of fight.
catyclasian 2018 americans aircraft have never been able to our manuever any russian fighter but they have always been able to out speed them IR out climb them or something like that.
I dont think that’s correct. On paper the Mig21 could out turn and out climb our F4s but we fought the vertical because our pilots were trained for it. Theirs weren’t. They had a horizontal path they’d follow to cover each other’s six. I may be wrong but that’s what I’ve come to read and understand.
But the Vietnam war force it role to do a dogfight. It was from the lesson that US learn and so the F15 Eagle, F-14 Tomcat, F-18 Hornet and F-16 Fighting Falcon was born. All four can perform other role but their main priority never change, they always can do perform aerial dogfight if nessesary.
@@A-G-F- i did said "basic priority" take note of it. F-16 was lightweight air superiority figther but you also often see F/A-18 Super Hornet doing F-16 mission(hence why it a multipurpose) i get what you meant. It kinda hard to decide which one is a true dogfighter(Probably F-15 eagle and F-14 Tomcat) cause all US aircraft that has F of it can do air superiority mission and dogfight cause Odviously they are fighter aircraft. So they all kinda blend.
The F-4 was designed as an INTERCEPTOR, but did pretty darn good at the other dozen roles it was forced into adapting to. Take it from me: USAF F-4D Crew Chief Spangdahlem, Germany 1979-1982. Ssgt John C. Farrar
Belive or not Romania still have about 36 mig 21 ( from about 100 upgade with israeli Elbit )with modern avionics similar with F16 in use they call mig 21 Lancer
@@adipop believe it or not....India has more than 200 mig 21 operational in IAF 😃 with so many upgrades from Israel (Radar, Avionics, HMD)....n They call it Mig 21 Bison
MIG 21 in India is called the MIG Bison and it's a whole other beast. Radar system tracks 8 targets engage up to 4 with semi active and active homing air to air, improved engine Mach 2.0+, modern advanced avionics, HMD, Tactical Data Links, RWR & EW capabilities, improved WVR combat, added BVR capabilities, all this in addition with it's well known raw capabilities.
@@rifleshooterchannel208 fuck u asshole hater.... We hv to support huge population....n the reason for high population density in India n china is bcz both countries had vast amount of fertile land So civilizations grew conveniently over here It wasnt barren land like Europe filled with nomadic tribes n barbarians. Huge Population had its own pros n cons....corruption is one of the major issue that has plagued us BTW....Indian govt built 90 million toilets in last 4 years !!! So stop spitting venom....
@@rifleshooterchannel208 r8 now India is 6th largest economy....do u even know ?? Days r not far when West with Lazy white asses will start looking East The day corruption is curbed completely .... u'll see India developing leaps n bounds n its huge population will play to its advantage
"Protected" from what?the russians?Better close US Bases in Japan and Japan will finally be independent .in germany we have also american Bases that should get closed to have freedom!
Protected Japan from the invader America? LoL. If Japan is willing to bow to the occupier as they did to America, there is no need to defend any airspace.
Its not really “amazing” that the F-4 didnt have a gun at first. And even though i would always rather have a gun than not, they havent really been needed for air to air combat from when the phantom was introduced. The low missile hit rates in vietnam were mainly from bad missiles (early AIM-4 falcons as an example), the missiles being fired outside of their envelopes (like sidewinders being fired head on when at the time they could only lock from the rear aspect. But this was primarily dealt with by red flag and top gun), and from pilots refusing to take the time to replace unused missiles (whether this be from pressure from higher-ups or just themselves.) which at the time needed to have maintinence done on them after every flight to make sure any fragile components hadnt broken on the flight.
There're some other problems dude. The missile poor turn rate can't catch up with the ability of the MiG-17 (yeah, not the 21); moreover, MiG-17 is much slower, that's mean that it'll be likely on their six for most of time. American had brought AIM-9 into the early stage of war. In April 4th, 1965, a Vietnamese pilot had successfully evaded an AIM-9 in a hair's breadth. So low quality is not a problem. There's no error in tactic, because there's a moment that the MiG pilot let the F-4 to his 6.
Phantom always seemed to me like a strike aircraft. Something like a lighter version of the A6 or A7. It doesn’t look like a dog fighter. I guess that is one of the reasons why the F-16 is the first fighter when we think about dogfights.
Multi-Role fighter, F-16 was a nice upgrade in terms of agility. The F/4 had a ridiculous top speed and climb rate, the thing was heavy as a tank and left that exhaust trail that made it much easier to spot and immediately identify. The 21 evolved nicely to, but definitely interceptor role was its forte.
@@pbjman5809 The F-14 became a strike aircraft to the end of it's lifetime. But its primary design was to be an air superiority fighter for naval aviation. The F-15 was an is an air superiority fighter with great capabilities and record in both dogfighting and strike. I would say that the F-15 is an F-4 done right.
Because it was never designed to dogfight. It was built to intercept soviet bombers, and it was forced to fight in a totally different arena when Vietnam broke out.
I remember a story an old F4 crew chief told me when I first got in the Air Force about a F4 coming back and the sides were rippled from pulling so many G's during a dogfight. Don't know if it was true or not, but it was a good story.
the phantom has approximately the same tactical and technical data, the problem is not in the МИГ-21, but at that time Soviet pilots were trained much better than American ones, unfortunately this school has been lost.
Daily reminder: the F-4 phantom was an intercepter and not a purpose built fighter, and many intercepters at the time didn't have main guns. F-4 also didn't become a better fighter because of the main gun, it became a better fighter because of advancements in technology.
Wet dreams of Indians lol. An f-16 shot down a mig-21 and a sukhoi-30 a year ago though. The poor pilot of the mig 21 was given a beating of his lifetime.
Isn’t it fascinating how the most advanced forms of warfare, the most raw expressions of mankind’s sheer power, have a way of reminding us of how powerless we really are?
Я техник самолета Миг-21ПФМ старший лейтенант, служил в ВВС СССР в 1984 - 1986 годы. Воинская часть 21513. Этот истребитель не имел пушки. Я это хорошо знаю. Иногда вешали подвесную пушку, но это очень и очень редко. На мой истребитель не вешали никогда. Пушка появилась на поздних модификациях, которые вряд ли воевали во Вьетнаме. Есть подозрение, что рассказчик любит приукрасить. Если ему это нравится, то не будем ему мешать.
Нельзя сравнивать MIG 21 и F4. Они оба хороши, но абсолютно разные. И дело думаю совсем не в качествах этих самолётов, а качестве подготовки пилотных групп. Я считаю USAF мало уделяет внимания практическим тренировкам своих лётчиков. Симуляторы ни когда не заменят действие в реальной ситуации. Русские не любят искусственный бой, им нравится побороться в воздухе... You cannot compare MIG 21 and F4. They are both good, but completely different. And I think the point is not in the qualities of these aircraft, but in the quality of the training of the pilot groups. I think the USAF pays little attention to the practical training of its pilots. Simulators will never replace an action in a real situation. The Russians do not like artificial combat, they like to fight in the air ...
Anyone ever read Dan Pedersons book about the navy asking him to create the top gun program he hand picked the best at that time as the navy’s k/d ratio was not good after pilots went through top gun their k/d ration jumped tenfold. Top gun by Dan Pedersons
The total loss of aircraft technology for the United States was absolutely catastrophic. The Air Force, Navy and ILC lost 3,374 aircraft. North Vietnamese aviation, which lost 150 MiG-17, MiG-19 and MiG-21 aircraft, destroyed 9% of American aircraft. The share of the S-75 air defense missile system accounts for 31%, the share of anti-aircraft artillery - 60%. However, a fair amount of weight in these 60 percent belongs to the Dvina complexes, which drove the enemy to the heights accessible to anti-aircraft guns. Also, do not dismiss and significant assistance information from the radar SAM, which provided anti-aircraft calculations. So it’s safe to say: Soviet anti-aircraft missiles made a break in the air war. And the statistics here are impressive. Over the years, the Soviet Union delivered 95 complexes of various modifications and 7658 missiles to them to Vietnam. They were spent, and also lost in battles or 6806 missiles were out of order. Thus, for every plane (1046) shot down with the help of the air defense missile system, 6.5 missiles fell. Considering that there were 3,228 combat launches, it turns out 3.1 missiles for every aircraft shot down. The threat of being hit by a C-75 rocket so strongly affected the psyche of American pilots that at times it took the form of psychosis. There are a significant number of cases where the pilots, visually detecting the launch of a rocket, left serviceable aircraft.
I don’t know where you got that psychosis part from. Never even heard of that & I follow military history pretty closely. But those Soviet supplied missiles definitely did some damage. The U.S. also returned the favor, in the late 80’s, when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. The CIA supplied many Afghan resistance fighters with Stinger missiles which took a heavy toll on Soviet helicopters and helped turn the tide of the war.
@@coolcat6303 Long live the Atomic war. She'll make us all up! Is that what you want?! Перевод: Да здравствует, Атомная война. Она нас всех помирит! Вы этого хотите?!
A friend of mines husband got to fly the final flight of the F4 Phantom credited with the last Mig kill in Vietnam, he flew it to the National Air and Space Museum, his C.O. was his back seater.
@@jackie1825 and one more.Look at the list of the aces of vietnam war. 16 north vietnam aces shot down 117 planes and 3 amrican aces shot down 16 planes
Fighter that kill hundreds of bricks in the air but American's still believe that f4 was superior to the legendary flying "fish bead"... that's why American's lost over 1500 aircraft in the 20 year long war but Vietcong lost only 150 fighters and won that war......
Many F4s were shot down by Mig 21 by Vietnamese pilots. A good weapon is also an advantage. But the human factor is decisive for every victory. from Vietnam
Indian air force has used Mig-21 with telling effect against western aircraft in two wars against Pakistan. Both times it proved its superiority. They are now being replaced with indigenous Tejas Mk-1 aircraft.
Rajiv Sethi Wrong, Mig 21s participted in only one Indo Pak war i.e. 71, and outperformed F104 starfighter in one on one battle. In 65's conflict they were roasted in PAFs ground attacks on halwara and Pathankot airbases, never saw any aftion.
Saw lot of those birds when I was a kid at Dallas navel station I can still see them doing touch and goes when I pass bye the old place even tho it’s shut down great memories
@@blin4ikgd179, перед тем как обосрать кого-то, нужно снимать штаны) И раз ты тупенький и не понял о какой песне автор коммента, то мог промолчать. Хотя чего ожидать от антисоветчика(дауна)...
I absolutely love the Phantom II, but the true dogfighters of Vietnam were the F-8 Crusader (if only it had M39s rather than those Colt Mk12s that kept jamming) and F-5A Freedom Fighter! Also, the Mig-21 is indeed quite the versatile little airframe, which is why numerous countries still use it today (albeit highly upgraded).
@@artemiafarrar5008 Nope! The F8 crusader was a pure dog fighter during the late and early stages of the war. Later models however became multi role fighters such as the F5 tiger. But still retained its routes.
The series was titled "Air Aces". 6 episodes. This was just a "webisode". I cut this and episode 3 (Gabby Gabreski). Use of live action airplanes (the P47 went up for mine, plus some english Spitfire stuff). CG and live action mixed. It's a good series, older now, back from 2012. But do a search for Air Aces and you'll probably find something online.
@@river_salmon Фантом задумывался как тяжёлый многоцелевой истребитель. Вполне себе годная концепция, при наличии ракет дальнего действия. Что подтверждается фактом существования F-14, F-15, Су27 и Су-35. Дог-файт - это далёкое прошлое.
The count had now been completed and all aircraft “were present and accounted for", said the official. In its response, the Indian Air Force (IAF) said: “During the aerial engagement (on 27 February), one MiG 21 Bison of the IAF shot downone F-16 in Nowshera sector.Apr 6, 2019
Instead, you should make a video of usa pilot telling a story about how he got the PTSD because of seeing all those MiG-21s shooting down F-4s. That would be more realistic.
The F-4 certainly came out on top most fights. Something like a 3-1 kill ratio against migs. Especially in this fight, IRL the migs got jumped and it was something like 9 migs downed for no losses.
@@tunaconsuma Once again, most of the advantages lay with the American pilots. They had far greater levels of support in SEAD and jamming and reconnaissance and especially, early warning. That's why the man says most were shot down by an aircraft they never saw.
MY gF dad flew the F-4 in Vietnam I sooo wiah he was around still to talk about that!!! Still one of my favorite Fighters of all time...just a sexy looking machine...and fast....If I werent an accomplished Mig Pilot back then Id have been nervous when F-4's were in the area..abd even then...but the Mig-21 was better in a dogfight and U.S. pilots admitted it...U.S. pilots just knew tactics and dicipline better and they were veterans, alot of them, from Korea so they faced Migs before
@@julosx actually the 21 was a very good dogfighter...there are phantom pilots my father was one of them ..he said that if he had had the Mig it woulda been a different story ....I take his word for it sur no offense
Schlipperschlopper Against Israel's F-15s those MIG-21s would be scrapped The F-15 killed MIG-21s and MIG-21Bis MIG-23 MIG-25 MIG-29 SU-7 And more Also the kill ratio is 102 to 0 so basically you have a killing machine that could only be killed if alone and the Soviets built a jet to specifically kill it which shows how much of a threat it is
The subscripts are in harmony with this guys narration. "big 21", "fantom palace" /supposedly "pilot"/, "loners 9 minutes" /i.e."longest"/ etc. Very deep indeed.😩
the u.s. wanted to give the surrounding countries time to build their defenses to withstand the spread of communism. the big picture. that was winning for us. the south vietnamese would not stand and fight. they were going to die. the democrats were in control of the white house. and used a "limited engagement" policy. communism was held in check within viet nam. when a republican gained control of the white house, nixon withdrew our troops. they weren't there to win the war anyway. tet fisseled out. the kids back home didn't want to fight. cut and run began. was it a failure? only that american generation was gutless and had no stomach for the war. good thing our guys at guadalcanal didn't feel that way. we now know communism will collapse under its own weight. just like obamacare.
Yep, the US government lost because of lack of willingness, but the US military did not. In fact, US military annihilated NVA and Vietcong. US losses was about 50k soldiers while NVA/Vietcong was about 850k soldiers. So yeah
Stop the bull----. The U.S lost. That's what matters most. The U.S' F4-Phantom is aerodynamically clumsy compared to the sleek MiG21. It's common sense. MiG21 could easily out maneuver and out run the F4-Phantom. In close combat, the F4-Phantom was a sitting duck over North Vietnam. American pilots have admitted...
It doesn't matter much. The winner takes it-all. American pilots have admitted. F4-Phantom was no match to MiG 21; in close combat. By the way, most. American pilots couldn't tell the difference between. MiG 17s, 19s and 21s. Check out the ratio. American losses were much higher compared to North Vietnam. That's a fact. *The U.S -LOST! In one day-alone, 8-B52s together with their F4Phantom escorts were shot-down; over North Vietnam. How 'bout.that?. Quite recently, an aging MiG-21 was capable to shoot down an F-16 over Pakistan. Lol!
The mig 21 was more maneuverable but it bled its energy fast. But the f4 is faster and had more thrust and could outrun the mig 21. Once America captured some mig 21s and learned its weakness mig 21 pilots purposefully avoided f4s to the point where f4 pilots wanted to have bomber callsigns to lure out mig21s
Crippled the small Mig 21 force well the only mig 21 force the Vietnamese had only a dozen 21s. Was one of the greatest successes the us had in the Vietnamese war but that war what brutal
F4 is a heavy and unwieldy aircraft. Personally it is horrible to see. MIG 21 was faster, I don't understand how this can happen in the video. If it really happened, congratulations to the pilot.
If you read about enough dog fights, you'll learn that the plane capabilities and weaknesses get exploited by the pilots, those flying against and inside. A pilot who knows a planes weakness knows how to work within it, many more scenario's far more unlikely than this have gone down on record as well. Planes don't win air battles, pilots do statistically speaking. Lose your situational awareness, black out whatever...you're done. Luck plays a factor too of course.
In my country! Vietnam! We are not that weak! My friend's grandfather's mig took down 1 F4 and 1 B52 before he landed in a forest in Son La because he ran out of fuel!
