Mike Rowe: The ART of Changing Minds | Celeste Headlee | The Way I Heard It 

I hated fog and moved to an area that has it daily, sometimes all day. When walking in it with a close friend who loved fog and as it surrounded us, which made me feel gloomy, she said "I love fog. It takes the hard edges off the world." I stopped walking and really looked at what she saw. She was right. In that moment, my mind took in what she said. And, at that moment, I loved fog, too, and still do 25 years later.

As a simple 78 year old man I was very impressed to hear all that she said. Some of the most interesting people I have met and or listened to are able to verbally get my attention and keep me interested while they teach me things. They can tell by my questions or expressions that I am with them or getting lost so they adjust their words to keep me actively focused as they get their points across. People are just plain interesting if they want to be.

I almost didn’t watch this episode because I didn’t think it sounded interesting. Boy was I wrong. This was one of the best talks I have heard in a while. Celeste is a scholar of the language as Mike is. Brilliant and thank you!

Loved what she said about how we spend so much time worrying about what we’re going to say versus listening to understand the other oerson

One. Of. The. Best. Episodes. Ever!

85% of good communication has always been simply listening. Every book you read on the topic of conversation brings this up. I strongly agree with Strunk and White, in the Elements of Style, that opens with a three word admonition: Don't waste words. Be concise, brief, and to the point. Anything else is noise seeking an audience.

Listening to the both of you, nodding along from the BarcaLounger in the living room. One of the greatest sleeper guest, I’ve ever had the pleasure to listen to. The verbal and non-verbal communication that results from two people speaking to each other while listening to what is being said can’t be replaced by machine learning. Thank you.

Celeste Headlee...wow, what insightful gem you are. Mike, absolutely love all of the stories you have given us over the years...and continue to give. Thank you. 👏 love ❤️

Very good comments on listening. So many times we try to overwhelm the other person... but here you are talking about listening and understanding... and that it takes time.

I was given some great advice that has served me well. If you have a disagreement you have 3 choices. Take a piece of paper and make 3 vertical columns. First column is RIGHT. On the left side, Then on the right side label WRONG. In the middle write RESOLVE. When you enter into a conversation decide what is most important to you to achieve. To be RIGHT, to be WRONG, or to RESOLVE the situation. Then LISTEN to the other person first. Do not interrupt them. Hear them out. Ask them to do the same. Even if they interrupt you, let them. Then continue calmly. Do NOT raise your voice, even if they do. This takes some practice to do. You will find that most people will just walk away when you refuse to argue with them. Ask them when they would like to continue as nothing has been resolved. The results can be amazing if they think about it.

Outstanding‼️ I will be going through the comments, however, I read a book long ago and have kept it to review from time to time. Long out of print, I found used ones for my grandchildren. Written by Mortimer Adler, "How to Speak, How to Listen." Exceptional keeper. To sum it up, much you both said: we must listen to understand, NOT listen just enough to reply. Thank you‼️

Have listened and watched Celeste Headlee's talk with Mike Rowe at least half a dozen times. I loved hearing all the insights she provided to help us understand the spectrum of being human and what it entails. Keep up the excellent work.

My Mom: "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

Good, positive actions, not words are what changes hearts.

Empathic connection is just being compassionate and open and willing to truly listen with your heart and being present. Which most humans don't know how to be. This is the problem with humanity, people are to afraid to FEEL. Feel there feelings, emotions, life itself. They just want to stay numb. And that in my opinion is what the pandemic was all about. A wake up call. Time for humanity to wake up.

Thanks Mike for showcasing this amazing woman! She does make a lot of sense and will be someone I follow going forward. God Bless!

Thank you for a great podcast! Just a FYI: the Neanderthal were known to have taken down bison...and woolly mammoths, woolly rhinos, cave bears, etc., so cooperative hunting was definitely part of their strategy. Also, due to evidence that the Neanderthal cared for their sick and elderly, and seemed to bury their dead with great care, we can deduce that they had at least as much empathy as modern humans. The reason they are not still with us as a distinct people hasn't been absolutely determined, but a very strong contender is they were simply absorbed into larger tribes of H. sapiens as H. sapiens made their way into Eurasia. Since almost everyone on the planet has at least a small amount of Neanderthal DNA, this makes the most sense- at least to me. 🙂Otherwise, it was a thoroughly enjoyable and thought-provoking podcast! Thanks, again!

Another person is like a whole universe, you can’t get close to the bottom of them, the more you know, the more you don’t know which is crazy, but the exploration is so worthwhile. But we are made in the image of God, who is THE MIND, so it should not surprise us that the other is essentially, for our purposes, infinite.

Great episode. You can have a conversation, and understanding with someone when neither of you speak the same physical language. Done it all over the world.

Fascinating

I’m definitely watching her Ted talk as soon as I’m done with Mike… lol

Good explanation of talk vs arguing 🤠

I love how she laughs. I wish I were that smart.

Nice conversation, I agree to say, that one of the hardest thing to do, is to ask ourselves; "What if I'm wrong?"

I feel like a debate is intended to change the audiences mind !! I would love to see a study that monitored the brains of the audience on both sides

Most people love to be right. I love to be wrong. The only growth I've ever had is when I found out I was wrong. I welcome failure. If I have an opportunity to experience failure it's a clear opportunity to learn and I do love learning. I wish more people loved to learn and embraced failure.

A brilliant transition to the podcast, headed there now.

She is a genius. The way my brain works is its common sense. Having a debate, with only 2 fixed opinions, will always have confrontational discussion. Somebody always has to win. Instead of 3 parties just talking and actually listening to eachother. The corruption has ruined all of this.

Interesting convo. Ty for sharing. This is why good salesmanship is a science, not luck. It's about connecting.

15 years ago or so, Benjamin Zander did a TED talk on the transformative power of classical music that would match hand in hand with this conversation.

Very interesting. I'm hoping that I am actually listening. I feel lucky in some respects because I didn't have a television until I was about seven, mid 1980s, and having to learn to be bored and make up my own fun or not have constant instant entertainment. And even when there was TV there were few channels in my local area and money constraints until I was a teenager. I struggle to understand why people my age or older have less patience after practicing being bored and having quiet. The short videos can be addictive but I feel worse after watching a hour of those so I avoid them or close it after the one that click-baited me. I'd very much like to get back to having a slow conversation with pauses to process listening and then talking, than this phoney idea of instant talking that entertainment has, because it has to, from a script. Great episode.

Very interesting interview! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

open heart or closed heart, the softness, not the hardness of heart. God bless

That was a very articulated, educated, and backed by scientific facts explanation of how emotions are greater than scientific facts.

Listening aid, love it

Mike roe !! Your my 3rd cousin ! Just wanted to say I loved this episode and it would be amazing to meet someday !

Debates - I took a debate class in high school - it was very interesting, especially when we were assigned positions regardless of our opinion, ie one had to be able to argue for something he or she didn't accept. It was very enlightening, taught me how to see things from someone else's point of view. What I see on the internet I would not call debates - it seems to be people insulting one another and shouting down the opposition. A proper debate only ensues when each side is aware of and understands the position and arguments of the opposition. An informed, respectful debate.

Brilliant...Informative...Interesting.

Debates between politicians are totally useless except as a form of entertainment. Especially in today's USA where the two parties are so far apart, and the values of both parties are totally different. Mike is great.

Good conversation. Celeste has nice brain and sense of humour.

As they say, ”We have two ears and one mouth for a reason! So that we might listen twice as much as we speak!” 😂

One thing I've learned, psychedelics cause obsession. I was being poisoned with said substances once. Didn't know a thing about the effects. These substances can cause persuasion. Those that were attempting persuasion, obsessed or fixated on a path of ideas leading to their financial gain at the cost of my hardship. It's eye opening being preyed upon by strangers. When the obsessions can't be met, as they don't make sense, lead me to a mental breakdown. I experienced physical harm from strangers attempting to persuade me. That's frightening. The guilty even viewed such a behavior as a pacifistic way to persuade people to help them. That's not pacifistic. The interesting thing I found. The guilty couldn't even persuade themselves. There was a definite mentality and anything I said or did against was interpreted as part of the "group" obsession. Fascinatingly frightening

Actually, there's a lot of historical writing about human communication that can be summarized as "It's all about energy". Some people give energy, some people take energy, Some hoard, some are bankrupt, empty handed. Next time you see a conversation you are not a part of, look closely and see if you can see the energy fields. If you can, you'll see some folks have a shield-like bubble around them while the other person(s) are trying to rip that bubble away. Or tapping it, trying to drain it. Conversations have a huge impact on your personally perceived energy level. How many times have you said, "wow... that really drained me" or "I love talking with that person, they're so positive". Yup - positive and negative. Currents. Energy.

Hey Mikey! I liked the podcast a lot! As Celeste speaks and you with the "Auditory Neuro Coupling Skills" of your mind. That's "The way you heard it".... Kudos and Cheers, Mate.

A great conversation!

It's not magic, it's perfect. It's the way in which we were created. We are creators, creating, created by Creator We must be aware that when we allow ourselves to be plugged into something unnatural to us we are participating in our own slavery. We are so much more. Love.

When the wife and i get into an argument i always say, you are hearing me, but your not listening. She eventually listens and it goes both ways with us. Hearing, and listening are 2 different things. Period.

Listening seems like it is only relaxing, depending upon what you are listening to. I have anxiety attacks from some things I listen to, because my brain is always analyzing the truth of what I hear- I can’t help it, that’s why I enjoy relaxing by listening to instrumental music or lyrics in a language I don’t understand.

Refreshing conversation

very good vid thank u

If I can’t question this 🌍 then it is an idol.

That’s what my Ballet Class is like - my wonderful teacher telling me all the incorrect things I’m doing etc. 😘

This conversation is leaping and bounding in ways that aren't taking into veteran FMRI's and their results which haven't yet been added to Entire Neuro Medical Community, from Research to Practical Application by M.D.'s. Stating this as a 3 tour Combat Infantryman, who's spends every moment trying to get my brain back to as close to the Nerd Level I was at before all the I.E.D.'s and burn pit exposure.

I would love to talk with her about my work space environment because this is hitting close to home with my situation

Humility is the beginning of all wisdom.

🇺🇲 ROWE 🇺🇲 2024 !!!!

more more!

This technique only works, (for obvious reasons) on a dwindling demographic who possesses and understands what empathy is

Absolutely love the podcast, but really wish we could watch the entire video of these instead of just... listening... LoL

I'd like to add, there's difference in dialog and conversation.

We know when we won't collaborate. Empathy is costly when you are creating anything with anyone. Stanford "rational" TED-verse is a perfect case in point.

Mr rowe your somebody got to do it and your podcast freaking priceless keep them both up I know I'm not the only one thinking this I look forward to both God bless you and much love to Mom what about dads teeth LOL love you man

A debate is a verbal & mental boxing match. Winners & Looser …crazy idea

I am super curious with those brain waves would look like while two people are dancing together

I'm reminded in the bible where jesus States that you ought to be transformed by the renewing of your mind which in my interpretation means be willing to change your mind

Strange that they can discuss components of oral communication and discourse without ever mentioning those two terms.

There are listening aids. They are made for those with ADHD and sensory integration. I would love to share more

26 min.. thats all we get haha ha. I am so looking for here Ted Talk.

When we actually “listen” to people, we are letting them know that we recognize that they have value and what they think is important. ???

We are moving into an era of non-listening trends. The self has the only opinion that matters to an ever growing Narcissist population. If you have an active listening audience the odds that they are persuadable are high. A audience dominated by folks who are lacking empathy by choice , they are in their own head. Some great actors out there faking empathy to gain an active audience.

My mind goes straight to Ted Kazinsky when I hear the word “manifesto”.

'Evolutionarily Designed', what an incredible contradiction of terms. Evolution, by definition, excludes the possibility of design. She references the bible and then uses evolution to explain how awesome we are. Great to listen to. Very right in some of what she says and horribly wrong on other points.

Mike, I never miss an episode. As a senior intelligence officer having served on five continents and in executive positions in CIA and DIA I am stunned. You interview one of the most leftist contributors to the singularly most leftist, government funded, organizations in the country and you perceive her to be insightful. Maybe, in a cultish way, but the foundation of her argument is to actively listen. As she states, to open your mind to new information and new thoughts. Ah huh, to leftist views of gender, racial equity, authoritarian leadership, a godless future, and a mindless past…oh, but she didn’t mention those things…are you friggin kidding us? I saw this around the world and seriously question where this is going and what you’re presenting. This is not insightful, it is revolutionary on purpose.

Something a Narcissist does not have.

👏 👏 👏 👏

ATTENTION PEOPLE... if you see a comment about texting mike ITS NOT HIM and please report it as spam!!! Sad to see this happen on his RU-vid

My wife and I write letters so we are not thinking about the response. We are thinking about what each other is thinking 🤔

I like your voice therefore I am receptive plus also I heard you might agree with my random opinions

I’m stopping right now. I’m going to hear her Ted talk

In my work I have to listen alot or at least I try my best😂. Whith adhd I wish you could give my boss better performance eval mannerisms 😂 not just to me but everyone. Yet on a better note I do like the thoughts of how you discussed our communication is less verbal and more text written, hey look at what I am doing now geez.😂point made..

This is why sales people and evangelist make a lot of money. People listen and feel good about it.

Where's the link to her TED talk?

Love the content Mike. Plz have your producer normalize your audio clips to -1db before final export. …it’s super annoying to have you turned up to the max so we can hear completely then have a commercial come on and blast our eardrums to pieces.

Good talk until shw didn't give GOD credit for humanity

So we DON'T have to make mistakes for ourselves? We can learn from others?

Here's a short manifesto: The Declaration of Independence. About 1 page.

This was one of my favorites. She is a jewel 💎

Maybe I’m Greek maybe I eat enough carbs but maybe if you’re not good at changing my mind you say oh no it’s a debate but how about both parties go in trying to have their own understanding expanded

Lots of great content, as usual. However, I think she missed one key thing about debate, which is that the purpose is not primarily to persuade the opponent, but the audience. The listener is not always or necessarily in a defensive posture. While a steady diet of debate is tiresome, sometimes I find it helpful to hear a talented and skillful speaker reply to a given argument.

I find myself fast forwarding to the parts where Mike talks…always

Lord only knows, I should not the one to dispute someone that is an expert, but I have to strongly disagree with the thought that very few peoples minds get changed in a conversation between two or more people! I have a tendency to believe that mind changing happens less in certain types of conversations (like politics, sports beliefs, etc.), but I have had lots of conversations with people, about how to do something (like work tasks, how to preform better at hobbies, etc.) where my mind has been changed to their way of thinking, or visa-versa! People have more of a tendency, to not being open to having their perception of something (politics, the brand of car you drive, the type of soda you drink, etc.) changing, like those things, that are probably deep rooted in hereditary beliefs, or feelings! I think it's probably more about what the conversations subject is than an 'across the board' non acceptance of mind change!

Maybe I missed it but nowhere did I hear her even touch on the fundamental overriding issue of truth.

Let's have a guessing competition here... how many times does she say, "right"...?

i prefer arguing.

Reality is that people properly conditioned can have their minds reset by the rightly labeled people.

WOW this was/is interesting, But where is the rest.?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

She kinda looks like me. A little. Id have to see the FULL picture you know, cause size means ALOT! You think the boys in the neuros room gotta running bet, but we didnt get the winner on the set, huh?? Lol.

☕

Artificial intelligence!!

You wanna interview an OUTSTANDING journalist? Go find Chris Hedges or Lee Camp and talk to them. You just might learn something!