Miles & the Lydian Chromatic Concept 

Absolutely...thanks!

Thanks Marco, much appreciated!

Many thanks!

I agree. And as my "aero jazz" band mates can attest, I play better when I'm wearing my lid - a beret. It takes me right to the hep cat zone. ;-)

Agreed a very Zawinul vibe

@@raywoods2071 That's fascinating! I'm sure it's all about being in the zone, but if you study alter egos and stagecraft, there's a lot of science behind changing one thing and becoming the person you need to be onstage. Some go as far as taking on another persona and name, but a shirt / hat / necktie or glasses can have the same effect. You may have accidentally tapped into your own secret!

Thanks, much appreciated!

That's great that you studied with Sandole! I still have the only book he put out. I was turned on to some of his teaching concepts through Pat Martino during a lesson back in the 70s.

@@RichieZellon I have an unpublished book of his called Scale Lore....it's super deep.

Same, bro

Todah...Shalom!

Thanks Dave, glad to be of help! The truth is I couldn't fully understand its application until a student of George Russell carefully explained it to me. However, even after understanding it, the controversy still remains for many due to the effort involved in changing your entire theoretical perspective in order to apply this system.

@@RichieZellon It's great that you had one of his students explain the system to you., Richie .The book is really hard to understand and the system is so different than the Western tonal music that came before it. I can see the difficulty that people have with it if you try to understand the whole system. But they way you explain it, it helps me think differently when I approach modal tunes, especially if I want to get a Lydian sound which is really cool. I have been a big fan of George Russell's music for many years and to me it is the sound of mid-century modernism. He was an amazing arranger also which is a big part of it, but now I understand a lot of what you hear in his music is the Lydian sound, often superimposed over other chords as you show in the video. Thanks for helping us understand how to make some of these cool sounds!

Glad it was helpful!

Much appreciated!

Thanks Lindsay, much appreciated!

Thanks for your feedback! The LCC is what it is and often misunderstood by many. Most musicians don't care for it because it requires that you re-train your mind to understand the music from a totally different angle. The truth is that if you hear 2 musicians playing over the same tune, where one is using it and the other isn't, you probably wouldn't hear a significant difference that would reveal this. That's because the concept is mainly to provide a different perspective for the musician to approach the chord changes, and not so much for a radically different listener experience. As far as the tendency to play more "horizontally" , I'm sorry I can't give you more examples at this time but this tends to occur naturally when superimposing the various lydian related scales over a single root. Again, all of this is very hard to explain in a short RU-vid video...but I took my chances for those who want an introduction and decide to explore it further.

@@RichieZellon and we thank you for that

Спасибо!

It is also very flawed and niche

It's not hard at all my friend. It's knowing your scales, except you would start on a different not

Yeah, the whole "avoid note" is a crock of shit if you ask me. If the key of a song is F Major then Bb has to be in the melodic conversation. Period. There are/were guys like Barry Harris (be-bop pianist), who will straight tell you that playing B there over a straight F Maj is just plain wrong. In fact, he'd go as far to say that if you played a B over a Dm chord in a song in the key of F, then that's wrong as well unless the B is used chromatically as a passing tone. There's a reason the F scale has Bb. It's not esoteric, it's part of Western harmony. If you want to truly leave Western harmony, that's fine, improvise with gamelans. Don't fucking half-ass it. Otherwise, acceptance is key. lol

@@jpwjr1199 I don't really perceive the avoid note to be avoided, because as you said it, it is a part of the western harmony, and I hasten to add, that without the avoid note, the sound of any mode would not be complete. And in the chords of quartal harmony, these avoid notes I'd imagine , are even desired (?) . What I like to do in my playing when ascending, I skip the forth above my bottom root and play the 4th after when I go above the 4th. And when descending , I skip the forth below my top root and play the 4th after I pass below the 4th , in any scale in my shredding patterns. You are welcome to check my playing on my channel to hear what I mean ;) In this way I think I believe, this "avoid" note has stronger character, and I does not mean, it always sounds "harmonious", rather it completes the character of modes. I do not play jazz ( I have to arrive to jazz as to something I found in myself and I have not found it yet) ), I came across the Lydian chromatic concept through Pebber Brown's channel, I am into modal music, and every mode (I have my favourites though) of major scale, harmonic Major and harmonic minor and melodic minor, which are a big piece to compute as well as the application of ideas on the fly, which is another chapter. I am still chewing through it several years later :D The harmonic Major and harmonic minor modal pentatonic arpeggios are so tricky, are very interesting and kept me awake many nights lol. In my modal pentatonic arpeggios I usually skip the 4ths as I described above, exception are types of ascending Lydian (I use the 4th above the root) and descending Locrian (I use the 4th below the root) arpeggios. I shred a lot more than arpeggiate, because my shredding is more complete and can focus easier on the mechanics of my picking technique, I'm lefty picking righty, .... yea there is a lot on my plate, but I love it and sometimes it drives me insane :D

@@1000BrokenKeys I truly appreciate your reply and your work. I just can't be that systematic, personally, especially when there are only 12 tones and anyone can make any justification to use any of them in any context (justified or not). It all boils down to how far away from Schoenberg you want to get at some point, and jazz music, which used to be street music, IMO wasn't originally intended to be quite that officious/pedantic. At some point, with improvisational music you have to be willing to risk not knowing exactly what you are going to do next, throw away your conventions, and just play, even if you wind up with notes you didn't intend or didn't want, or wish you could have back. That's the danger of improvisation and without that, why fucking bother if you ask me! This doesn't even cover the more important aspect of the context provided from what the other musicians bring to the table, which is often the most important thing. What you do decide to play or not should be predicated on that, if others are involved at all.

@@jpwjr1199 thank you and I too appreciate your findings. I have to agree, but not just with jazz, I think, music was not started as a "science", before music became a study matter, surely, it must have been just a trial and error to find what pleased the human ear and soul. However, science and "modern scientific theories" I bet developed the music beyond the wildest imagination of even Pythagoras himself. And then there is the playful element to the music, which as you said is the improvisation and breaking the rules without realising it. To me, science helps to memorise stuff by reasoning and logic, which outlasts mere memory imho, and then on these new methods perhaps can be built on with new ideas and as the jazz goes, it is developed further and further and may have departed from the original invention into new breed of jazz, but I know jazz only superficially, I just don't fully appreciate it. I feel the same with every tune, the harmonies have jazzy halo, but to my ear, the emotion/flavour only changes with tempo and articulation and phrasing. I prefer modal music, each mode's harmony has different flavour on its own already even before changing tempo and articulation and phrasing, but that is just my preference . Through my longer recordings of my musical ideas following certain rules and methods, I get moments, when I forget following them, and they are usually the most surprising and most melodic and atmospheric phrases, I could not come up with if I though about them. In the band scenario, I'd have to go slow to familiarise myself with everybody's input and see what bit needs filled in, so the tune would not be too busy which of course causes a listening and interest fatigue, and I also fully agree, and I will just put it in different words, the fewer people are involved, the more free hand one can have ;)

It seems to me that half the appeal of the pentatonic scale (whether the listener is a fan of traditional Japanese music or of Duane Allman) must have to do with their non-use of "avoid notes"...

Thanks! 😆

i spent way to long with my nose in that book looking for arcane secrets. it was an adventure but i found going back to conventional theory had the answers.another exotic interpretation of theory is pat martinos approach.you can invent any number of strange routes but they had it figured hundreds of years ago!

Thank you so much!

I was not aware of that. Thanks for sharing!

Thanks Nick! Unfortunately if I add a "pay what you like" option, most people will end up paying $1 or less. You would be surprised at how many people complain that it should all be free. Regardless, I will soon have to raise the price. 😔

@@RichieZellon Oh I bet they would… cheapskates! I’m sure THEY don’t work for free! I was hoping there would be something like a minimum Pay what you like, but I guess that’s getting into a complicated eCommerce system (something I worked with in a previous life!). Anyway, I hope it’s working well for you. Keep up the fabulous content!

*Ezz-thetic, dang auto incorrect lol

George Russell formulated the Lydian Chromatic Concept in the mid 50's and was teaching it and sharing it with other musicians ( among them Miles), before he recorded his own music several years later. I had the good fortune of studying briefly with one of his students at the New England Conservatory.

dude check out the Robert Yelin book Jazz Classics for Solo Guitar arrangement!!

@@JamesSpeiser will do thanks!!

Listen to John McLaughlin or Alan Holdsworth.

Bach used it a lot in minor key pieces when encountering the III chord in a cycle of 4th coming from VII moving to VI, basically raise the 5th and let the major 7 carry over from previous chord.

Thanks, glad it was helpful!

The Jazz Guitar Channel yeah really looking forward to watching more of your videos 😀

In the ii-v's (going to the root) he uses the lydian scale of the chord that is a whole step before the v (the fourth) that's why he plays f lydian over d-7 g7 and then c lydian con the c major chord. Al least i understanded that.

@@sebastianwierzba6237 thank you so much! Totally get it now! So any ii-V-I, youre safe to play the lydian of the fourth scale degree relative to the major tonic?

@@MrCashK ur welcome, u are safe for the ii-v part, once you get to the 1 you have ti switch to the lydian of the 1st chord (that would be the ionian of the key, so you raise the fourth)

Yes that is also true! However, you are taking my explanation out of context. When I explain vertical and horizontal at the beginning of the video, I do it in reference to the bebop vs modal approach to improvisation, which is related to what was going on with Miles and other bebop musicians at the time. At present, the terms vertical and horizontal are commonly used among many jazz musicians primarily in this context. You are referring to the scales in relation to Russell's conception of Lydian tonal gravity which is a different application of the terms. Regardless, thanks for your feedback as this is also additional info that viewers will find interesting!

@@RichieZellon thank you as Well. I can't find a whole lot on the subject and really appriciate your video and your feed back. I see what you mean. Good to know.

@@RichieZellon I thought the video was about the Lydian chromatic concept of tonal organization.

Personally, I believe there is no major benefit. I'm just the messenger explaining it to those who wanted to understand it. :)

It has the same notes only that your focus is on the F Lydian as the center over both chords. It's just another perspective...actually George Russell's not mine... :)

Is the answer here as simple as tonal center? Asking for a friend.

You’re right.

@@johnnewell552yes

Very interesting...so this is what you got from the lesson?

It's the first interval at the bottom of the overtone series.

@@RichieZellon Thanks for responding, JGC. I am for sure no expert, but I thought the first interval up from the fundamental in the overtone series was an octave. I guess I was wrong...

@@ForcesInMotion Excuse my wording, but what I meant was the first interval using 2 different notes.

@@RichieZellon Honestly not trying to be a jerk, but in my opinion, 2 notes that are an octave apart, are different notes. Just sayin'...

@@ForcesInMotion Nope, it's the same note. The note C and another C an 8ve up or down is still a C! You are confusing notes with pitches which can differ.

Because it is trueer to understanding of the sounds and how playing with it works. But ofcourse strictly for usage you dont have to understand that and what you state is enough. But some like to understand and grow in that way.

Well put dodomadoz, thanks!

dodomadoz I don’t see the connection between the stack of fifths and Lydian being the gravitational center of tonality. For example, it doesn’t explain why the Lydian mode is so challenging to compose in without accidentally resolving to the relative Mixolydian or Ionian. I guess I think of Lydian as balancing an egg on its end. Theoretically everything lines up to let it balance forever, but the slightest motion quickly asserts a different orientation, even if it’s less symmetrical. What I don’t know is whether that’s cultural or not. Another thing I noticed is that in Russell’s book, many of the Lydian scales are also modes of the melodic minor scale, so I wonder if absorbing the LCC would result in harmonizing chords with more modes of the melodic minor than usual. Anyways thank you for sharing and I look forward to your thoughts!

Sorry, not clear on what you're asking....

@@RichieZellon you referenced Ellington's Take the A Train. Duke did not compose nor arrange it. Billy Strayhorn did.

@@humusiclab8974 I am aware of that, however most people identify it as part of the Duke Ellington songbook. By the way, are you with the jazz police? :)

@@RichieZellon Suppose you saw a video, and the person teaching bossa nova implied that Astrud Gilberto wrote "The Girl From Ipanema." And then tries to justify the erroneous info by saying the song is "identified" with her catalogue... Wouldyou say anything? Does that make you the music police?

@@humusiclab8974 I get your point...by the way I was only joking when I asked "are you with the jazz police"...

Thanks, I will keep that in mind!

Most likely because the concept includes all 12 existing tones (half steps) in the scales it uses. I recommend reading George Russell's book for more detailed insight.

Must be the settings on your player. This is definitely HD...

It's just a different perspective to center the progression around the lydian. The notes are not going to change, just the way you think of them. That's why it's so controversial! Useful for some, but it's kind of like "re-inventing the wheel" for others.

@@RichieZellon Thanks for your reply and for all your videos

It's a mode of the A melodic minor scale (as the C Lydian dominant scale is a mode of the G melodic minor scale and the C Lydian scale is a mode of the G "major" scale).

Superimpose F and Gb lydian.

The Jazz Guitar Channel thank you so much for your response! So What has in concert key d minor and Eb minor. Did you choose F and Gb Lydian based on the minor 3rds in those chords/ scales or because you see these minor chords as the II or Dorian of C and Db Major so F and Eb would be the IV which is Lydian?

jazzguitar.richiezellon.com/premium look in the list that says mini courses

I doubt it...

Depends on the register. If you have the 5th in the bottom of the chord and use the #4 as a #11 in the higher register, it doesn't clash. In Lydian chords you can include both, as long as you respect the order of the overtone series.

@@RichieZellon okay, I think I understand. Could you not just place the perfect 4th an octave or two above the 3rd and it have the same effect? I find lydian to be pretty crunchy personally, a nicely voiced maj11 could sound as consonant as a maj#11 no?

@@samevans9285 Not really...

@@samevans9285 The problem my friend is the b9 interval, that interval sounds very dissonant and in chords like Maj7 we don't want that kinda dissonance, and the interval between the 3rd and the 4th an octave above (usually put as 11th) is the b9 that's why we raise the 11th and make the interval a 9th, which sounds more nicer. That's why in dominant 7 chords is usual to have a b9, because we want that kinda dissonance in dominant chords to later resolve. Note: this isn't a rule, is a guideline you can use the Natural 11th over a major chord or make a voicing that works for you, but normally it doesn't work well.

@@joaquinnapan3237 hey man, yeah i understand that. There's a semitone between root and maj 7 in a major 7th chords though. Also there's a semitone between #4 and 5th in lydian chord. Was just wondering why the semitone interval in a #11 chord is preferable to that of one in a Ionian major chord if its just the dissonance from the semitone (which exists in both just on different degrees)

I agree!

@@RichieZellon I have to say though: Cudos to you, this is not an easy thing to teach, and you did it pretty clear. A lot of videos about Russell that are out there just don't get to the point and just bable loosely about the esoteric side of it....

gruenesblau it does create a different mindset and gravity point thinking in LLC. Berklee guitar guru Mick Goodrick talk about this in his book “The Advancing Guitarist”. LLC offers more of a common tone approach through changes versus derivative thinking (parent scale) or parallel thinking (corresponding mode/chord scale). Interesting topic!

@@RichieZellon Then why this video?

I would suggest getting Russell's book in order to better understand the details. Unfortunately I can only give you a very general introduction in the time allotted to this video and am barely scratching the surface of this system's depth. All I can say in regards to your questions is that you are trying to reconcile the concept to your understanding of functional harmony, which is what Russell reorganizes here according to his view of scales in relationship to what he calls tonal gravity.

"concepts" are just ways to, as the name suggest, conceptualize (as in organize, break it down and understand) a certain sound in your head. When you are in a live, improv situation, you want to have access to as many different concepts you can so as to never run out of ways to think about music. You want to be able to box yourself out of any corner, in a sense. Also, and this is the magic part, the way you conceptualize music in your head affects the way you play unconsciously. For example, if in a II-V you think about it as "I'm just gonna play the tonic scale", it would most likely take you to different ideas than if you thought "I'm going to first play D dorian and then G myxolidian". Even if all the notes are exactly the same, you probably will play something different just because of the way you are thinking. In the end, it's about having the most tools available to you in a given moment, so as to never run out of ideas.

Great reply Erik...thanks!

@@ErikDornes thanx a lot for the extensive answer, i completely agree, but nevertheless when you play any C-Major shapes/modes over a D-7 chord, it will always sound like dorian, whatever you do, therefore does it really make sense to say i play F-Lydian over D-7 ? ...of course a comprehensive improvisor should be aware of all the possible shapes in between a major scale to play over any chords.....btw the concept of Lydian as the Nr. one scale in Major i agree on !!

I appreciate and thank you for your feedback. However, for the practical applications I demonstrate, in addition to having read the book, this is how a student of George Russell explained it to me and I have chosen to teach it. Those who read the book, of course can interpret the concept how they wish. Personally, I have heard so many discussions about this and other aspects of the concept in academic circles, that I have decided to stick to my understanding after 30 years of dealing with it .That said, I am using the terms "vertical" and "horizontal" as they are universally employed and understood by most jazz musicians at present. This is the way it is taught at most of the great music schools! "Vertical" implies the chord or harmony while "horizontal" implies a scale or linear concept. Furthermore, I have been taught to use these terms by my mentor, Charlie Banacos who before passing was head of the New England Conservatory Jazz dept, where George Russell previously taught. Jerry Bergonzi who currently teaches there also agrees! The bottom line is, anyone who initially reads Russell's book will initially be confused. It's a complicated subject. :)

@@RichieZellon I was able to figure it out just by reading the book. Your video would have made that harder. To be fair, Russell doesn't make it easy. The hardest part was unraveling his terminology, which could have been so much clearer if he hadn't been so paranoid about using words like "dissonance" or "outside" Personally, I have found the LCC of limited usefulness. It's great if you want to sound like you learned to play in the 60s.

I'd love to hear you pronounce it!

Lol

It''s the Bird finger... :)

Enzo, can you refer me and the rest of our viewers to another video that even attempts to successfully teach the Lydian chromatic concept any quicker? It is not just about playing the lydian mode! And your sarcasm about the tritone not clashing with the 5th when used according to the overtone series, ( especially after I played it), shows you have no understanding of jazz theory, let alone an ear for it!

So he's just rated

Ahaha

yes...so what's your point???

@@RichieZellon just made me chuckle 😁

Disagree with you michstrito. The amount of content that this video offers for free is astounding. For those of us who value good teaching and learning new concepts, the value for cost seems more than acceptable. If the viewer wants to learn more in depth, Richie gives them an option to learn more in a structured format. For you to criticize this is ignorant. Don’t do that.

I disagree. But that's just me :)

In this video I practically explain in detail how the entire LCC works providing lots of practical knowledge. Many agree that these are not snippets, nor is it a teaser. As far as the portions of the video that are missing, they are and have been available for FREE viewing from day 1 on my site. See for yourself...jazzguitar.richiezellon.com/jazz-improvisation/miles-and-the-lydian-chromatic-concept You'll notice that the video on my site is much too long for RU-vid. As a matter of fact this shortened version is already too long for most! Other than that, I want to add that I do appreciate your honest feedback, however I feel that I am very generous in the amount of practical information that I make available in my videos. And as far as my sales pitch goes, It's a small price to pay for everything I am giving away. At the end of the day, I am a musician and this is part of how I make a living. :)

@@RichieZellon I've never met a teacher who gave away their teaching. I've paid $50-$60 an hour for invaluable instruction, without which I wouldn't have played as well. It's not worth arguing with people who want something for nothing. Let them figure it out on their own.

You seem surprised...music is math!

A lot of music is built on patterns. Math is useful for describing patterns. Therefore, I don't see why the two should be seen as mutually exclusive.

My pleasure....

You wasted your own time, no one can waste it for you.

How do you know I finished the sentence with the word time ? Are you psychic ?