Milwaukee M12 Impact Driver vs M12 Surge Hydraulic | Thursday Throwdown 

I am an electrician. I used the standard impact around a customer's child who has autism. He would scream too loud and need ear protection. 3 weeks later I return use the surge and he says to his mother it's not loud anymore. That's worth the cost to me. My apprentice still has the standard and the little boy avoided him like the black plague

The numbers aren’t boring, especially when you’re unsure which one to buy.

I definitely prefer the Surge for the noise and for how smooth it is. When I need more power I go for an 18 volt tool anyways

Surge, hands down. I'm into the Bosch 12v platform, but when I decided to upgrade from my old brushed impact to brushless, I went for the Surge even though I have nothing else in the platform. Hang one cabinet with a normal impact driver, where you're banging away in an small enclosed space, and then hang another with the Surge and there absolutely zero doubt as to which one you'd want to use. oh, and the Surge, being brushless and all, was still a good step up in power from my brushed 12v impact driver. Any "shortcomings" the 12v Surge has in the power department are answered by grabbing the 18v impact driver, so the power difference between the 12v Fuel impact and the 12v Surge isn't material to me.

Great review. Thank you for taking the time. I literally went in to my local shop to pick up a surge. They were out of stock and almost picked up the other driver. I have the M18 nut driver, M18 high torque, M12 3/8stubby, but there is a hole in my the lineup for a small head nimble driver and I find myself reaching for my son's 12v Hilti nut driver which is sadly under powered. Your review had my mind made up to go with the standard driver right up untill the end. The majority of my work is under a car, in a trunk our wedged under a dash. If I need more torque I have options, but nothing I have is quite. Thanks for your help.

For breaking torque, I would definitely expect the impact driver to win, as it did. The impact driver is rated for 1300inlb (~108ftlb). That it broke loose bolts torqued to 150 f 175 ftlbs is pretty impressive, but it did struggle with them. The Surge (pulse driver) is rated for far less. Still, it did manage to break loose the 100 f 125 ftlb nuts, which is more than I expected it would. As for noise, thats right at the minimum I would consider a significant improvement. 4-8dbA lower is less of a difference than I hoped for when I first read about the Surge, but it is enough to be noticeable, and enough to make it worth considering. I wish it were consistently at 6-10db quieter, but it’s not there at this time. Would be interesting to see if those results were any different in the lower speed modes. The extra 4oz and extra $30 (bare tool) can be justified if the noise levels are important. Much tougher to justify the larger difference in kit prices. I would also like to see runtime tests of the impact driver vs pulse driver, is that hydraulic mechanism having any impact on battery runtime? Finally, where the surge should show performance advantages over the impact driver are in applications that benefit from the longer sustained torque pulse, such as driving medium sized, but longer fasteners...basically the same fastener driving situations where a drill/driver will beat an impact driver. In those situations, the longer sustained torque pulse will deliver more rotation per pulse than the impact driver resulting in better speed. This has to be a case were the torque needed is moderately high, but not so high that the lower impulse torque isn’t the limiting factor. It’s a fairly narrow range of tasks, but for those tasks, the Surge should beat the impact driver consistently, while delivering similar performance on most other tasks, but obviously, not having quite as much breaking strength for highly torqued, or rusted/fouled fasteners.

I was deciding between these 2 impact drivers and went with the standard over the Surge. -saved $65 -faster -lighter The 6dB difference is negated with ear protection.

Just bought the surge today. SUCH a huge noise difference. I just use mine around the house and my family is always complaining about how.loud it is but I love the convenience and power of an impact. It was definitely worth the upgrade for me.

There is no reason to get the Surge unless you want less noise and at that point the Surge is the clear choice. I think the performance is overall so close that it doesn’t really make one better than the other but if you really need lots of power then you probably shouldn’t be grabbing the 12volt tool to start. They are both awesome tools but I would also go for the Surge.

You really got to look at drilling, so I feel like the longer sustain on the surge means I get better results when I'm using it for drilling, between the Milwaukee shockwave bits and the Daredevil paddle bits there's no reason I shouldn't be drilling holes with my impact gun I'd love to see you test which performs better in that regard. also I feel that the surge tends to pick up a little bit of speed when driving 3/8 inch lag bolts and bigger maybe do a test with some bigger hardware? that said hands down I'm going to go for the surge every time because the clients appreciate it being quieter as to their sleeping babies and doggos

I really like the idea of the Thursday Throw down!! Love the big comprehensive reviews as well. Merry Christmas guys! 🍻🎄🍻

Definitely the surge for the lower noise since most of my work is indoors. Great test guys! I used to just read the tests on your website but just subscribed. Great work!

I would like to comment on something that was not reviewed: raw power is not everything, especially in a compact unit; I am super impressed by the delicate control on the surge. Really good for accurate screwing, and I’ve only been using it for a couple weeks but i am yet to experience bit slippage. To me, hydraulic is a much better tool for fine work and small diameter driving.

I have the impact driver, it never fails me and I love it with a 6amp battery that give it more torque, it also awesome with the 2amp batter for reduced weight and tight spaces

You guys need to run an actual test for driving into sheet metal. Multiple layers for metal buildings. This is what these were made for! They need to hammer hard to penetrate metal. No hammer they just heat up, hence the noise these tools make.I can’t get my Milwaukee M-18 to penetrate with all the fancy modes and torque figures! My Hitachi 18 volt can do the job, two layers of 10 gauge galvanized posts for code work!

I don't have the m 12 surge but I have the m18 and I really love how it impacts. Normally with a traditional impact driver it doesn't start hammering until a certain torque is reached and sometimes there's a chance of a philip head screw can strip cause of the screw resisting as it's going in. When I use the surge it impacts almost immediately if there's alot of resistance and I barely have to push it's sweet

i think it makes a lot of sense when it came to the nut test, because the surge is meant to last longer not be more powerful, impact drivers have basically little hammers in them, the surge however at a certain force makes the "pin" that gets hit be pushed down so it doesn't wear so much and is quieter but causes more vibrations, while the normal impact driver just keeps smashing that "pin", meaning when it comes to a certain force the surge will just keep pushing the pins down capping the power, the normal driver will just keep hitting it until it damages it or ceases.

Surge every time, and I have both. The final comment said it all - 6db is huge, and it seems more like 10. It's a different sound profile that's much softer and less irritating. Also, the tool feels much smoother to my hand. Overall, it's quieter, smoother, and has much finer control on the low setting for things like small sheet metal screws. Win for Surge. I have the Makita Hydraulic 18v "Oil Impulse" driver as well, and it's even better and has more power. If I don't need the compact size of the M12 Surge I go for the Makita every time. It feels even smoother than the M12 Surge and actually seems quieter, though I haven't measured it.

Great review! No matter what the results were the surge driver is undoubtedly the “next”technology on impact drivers

When you did the earlier test for the surge did you do the nut test first or was it in the same order as the video? It’s most likely the oil got warmer which caused it to underperform.

I don't think you have any control over the ads RU-vid shoves in your content but I'm getting the best ads I've ever seen in my life. I'm not even skipping. Post covid videos are the zombie apocalypse but in reverse.

Nice comparison. I love my surge and if I need more power I use my m12 stubby with hex adapter. That thing can split logs

This is the best comparison I’ve seen by far. Nice job guys 👍🏼

Surge really shines when the fastener is located it a way that makes it difficult to apply force while maintaining control. Example: Sheetrock screws high up above a bathtub when no ladder is available. The only tool when your over extended, upside and standing on your down! Wish I'd known about the advantages of the Surge sooner!

Video starts at 7:27

The Milwaukee M12 surge has four functions in order to prevent from overtorquing or stripping, right? So would it make sense to buy just the Milwaukee M12 surge as opposed to this electronic screwdriver for DIY at home to future proof?

Surge is good for a remodeler or installation or even hvac techs but for pure power the fuel is the way to go. I have both. Lol

For me, given the performance of both tools, I feel like they are well within my expectations for a 12V lineup. I would switch to a heavier duty tool if I needed more on the performance. Therefore, the noise is everything for me. I would take the quieter tool in a heartbeat. The introduction of impact drivers was an awesome thing for shrinking tools and providing a higher level of performance from cordless, however, I have always hated how loud impact drivers are.

Please PLEASE do a Milwaukee high torque 1/2" impact head to head. NOBODY has one on RU-vid

Should test witch one lasts the longest with drilling up into drywall, wonder if the surge handles the dust better.

In person, these two sound very close but the traditional impact driver performs better in most circumstances. Can’t go wrong with either though.

Bosch may have a high number of tools as well but you would have to include foreign markets. Like they have w the mini chain saw but then again Milwaukee is also coming out with one

I have both and reach for surge

I want to know which uses more battery power

One of the best reviews I have seen

Great work, an excellent video.

O also Milwaukee 12 volt tools have more power then a lot of other companies 18 volt tools

Regardless of whatever head to head bench test is done between these two drivers I still prefer the surge over the standard impact. In both the m18 and the m12 platforms. I just feel they have more power sure they are a little slow when it comes to long fasteners day 3 inches or long. But have the noise reduction and control in power the surge is my perfected. One more thing just because your not running that impact for that long of a time you can still be doing damage to your ears. Plus osha is a guid line across the board everyone’s ears are different. Now if you don’t feel you need ear plugs the. Don’t use them they are your ears not mine. Not saying I wear ear plugs all the time eaither. But I do use my surge over the non surge and btw I do own all 4 so I and saying this from the stand point of using them for periods of time

Why did you not show the difference with a 4-6AH battery as well?

I prefer the impact driver.

just wanna share mine... 2021 its Christmas and sales are everywhere, i have been using my 3/8 impact wrench on daily DYI projects for over two years, since this is all I have paired with a regular drill driver. fast forward, just recently HD put the fuel impact drill on sale for 99 bucks with two 2.0 battery so i begin comparing the Price of the Surge and the Fuel Impact drill, for a big price gap i cant beat a 99$ sale over the Surge - from where i use it, the impact driver is well over what I need that is why choose it over the Surge.... price and its performance i know from the test that its loud, well if i only use it for probably 50 screw max per work i would be okey with the noise. i can always put on ear plugs they are cheap too.

Ingersoll rand has a video that defines NUT BUSTING TORQUE as holding trigger for a maximum time of 15 seconds.

For the har work the impact for the delicate or soft job the surge

which had less vibration?

I would be very interested to see which one runs longer on a single battery

These speed tests are pretty useless. Different densities of the wood can't give you a constant to measure from. Driving into a knot for example will take more energy. This a is a great review 👍! Just don't buy an impact based in speed alone

Thanks guy i made my mind for the m12 impact for sure

I feel a little disconnect between you both.

Do I get a shoutout on this one? :P Thanks again for the stubby video. This was my other request because literally NO OTHER VIDEO ON RU-vid COMPARED THEM HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE. Also we’re here for the Geeking Out so no skipping that

New to tools, is the standard drill Brushless? Or are they both Brushless?

i have to go with surge, heard there is collet problems with impact but not surge.

These results aren't at all surprising. Never expected the surge to be more powerful or faster or lighter than a regular impact.

Right now on the Zon, the surge tool only is $67 higher than the impact. Ehf a bunch-a-that. Impact me. When I think of hydraulic, I’m thinking mechanical output (from electric motor) to pump, hydraulic output to hydraulic motor, to mechanical output. Explain this what’s going on in this tool to why you guys are saying it’s hydraulic. Please.

Best reviews yet. Best one, this is what I’ve been looking for

Both of those are loud as hell. Better to go with the 18V LXT Lithium-Ion 1/4 in. Oil-Impulse Brushless Cordless 3-Speed Impact Driver for quiter and smoother operation!

I have SO much "ammo" for this rant I don't even know where to begin...so ill start off with saying that there was once a time we could trust most of the content creators on here cuz they were just "regular" people makin videos,PAYING FOR THEIR TOOLS THEY REVIEW and because of this it kept them honest. This dude really just said "when I'm in the shop,the quietness really is the #1 thing I look for in a tool" and picked the more expensive after it just got demolished in almost every test. We are talking a MINIMAL difference in sound here(plus other channels are mentioning a vibration the surge has)and I PERSONALLY would rather have PERFORMANCE or sound ANYDAY. No like it made it so we don't need ear plugs anymore

You guys have all those damn tools but one socket let’s share it !!

Starts at 7:25

That drill sounds the same to me, & that’s supposed to be a quiet drill?

best Review

I have the M12 gen 2 . The Question is ,the noise factor a game changer where its going to motivate me to by the Surge, Knowing its drill performance is inferior

I do have a Milwaukee surge 18 volt

I want the better one because frankly I will wear ears with either one. 90+ dB is still loud

Guy on the left start faster than the one on the right

impact driver for me hands down... thanks!

Both are too loud.. Over time, any sound that’s 85 decibels or higher can cause hearing loss. Use ear protection.

Good for automotive work

I have the makita 18v but i like Milwaukee’s m12 for its compact size, should i get the surge or standard m12?

I thought they were a lot quieter

Well, this broke my heart. I don't wanna go back. I won't go back What about the noise level, or how much use they both get out of the same battery?

Доброго времени суток! Подскажите пожалуйста, для винтов и болтов :м4; м5; м6; м8; м10, какой лучше выбрать, гидравлику или обычный? Заранее спасибо!

I’m not trying to nitpick as I get this stuff is hard if not impossible to remove the human element from but for what it’s worth the gray shirt/m12 fuel wielder jumped the gun every single time for the first handful of tests at least. I’m not going to slow every one down to confirm every single one, and the first one with the nut driver for example was less egregious. I get half a second is splitting hairs but for testing that takes 3 seconds to complete half a second is a big factor. That said I don’t know that there’s a better way aside from slowing down the footage and timing it like that every time which is asking far too much so yea...it is what it is. Says a lot about them both I guess that it’s so close

I dont see those breaking 150 ftlbs or lbsft

I wonder what the impact driver could do with a 6.0 battery

The torque failed the Surge probably because it uses more power (less efficient) and likely the battery was more depleted the the more energy efficient impact.

Started at 7:27

Impact driver for the win!

You should try this torque test again and see what happens

I feel the surge is the better overall tool. The reason is fairly simple - the M18 Line. If you need a big, powerful Impact to get the harder jobs done, why would you even purchase an M12 product at all? You wouldn't. Realistically, you will go for the M18 for its far superior capability. The M12 line is for more general or even delicate, precise work. The Surge's slower speed is actually an advantage. Take me, I drive M2-M5 Metric Hex Head screws into ABS Plastics and lightweight Aluminium. An Impact Driver with too high speed and torque can be disastrous. Screwing into plastic too quickly heats the screw up and melts the threads, and over-tightening will strip the threads. 95% of the time, I am pulling the trigger as lightly as possible. The Surge is superior at low speed control and the lower noise is a nice bonus. For that reason its my only M12 tool. All of the others are M18.

Impact driver is much good

Отличный обзор, но жаль surge что набрал меньше баллов. за его нежность и бесшумность ему можно простить все остальное, работать им одно удовольствие. Вибраций минимум и шум тоже минимальный в сравнении с обычным импактом.

Upgraded from an older 18v kit. ru-vid.comUgkxW1vOBRCMrgTCDEijzpVzDWsgI-Jm2iQv I independently chose the drill and impact tool, before I came across the kit.I like the 3 speed impact gun. It seems more powerful than my older one, and it can be set to be really gentle. The drill is more appropriately sized for my use. I used to have a hammer drill, but I did not like that it was so big and it was not a great hammer drill. I rather have a smaller drill like this, and then get a corded hammer drill for the odd case I need that.

"They pretty much have the same exact..." - same and exact is like saying I'm going to the Automatic Transaction Machine Machine. It's redundant!

I want the better one because frankly I will wear ears with either one. 90+ dB is still load

You need to do these tests with a 4amp hr battery because it will output more current. I believe this test is restricted by the output of the battery and not the drill. The 3amp actually have 2 different makes of cells, samsung which is rated at 15amps continuous whilst Lgs can deliver more than 20amps.

Content OK but you need to inject some pace into the presentation guys.

Tip busters

Does anyone know the difference in battery consumption between the 2? I would think that would be an important factor if you are planning on using for all day jobs.

the 12v surge is getting really expensive. Must be popular or having supply chain issues.

Tried and true hammer and anvil tech vs oil pulse tech that loses power over time of use. Give me the tried and trusted hammer and anvil any day.

The surge might have lost some hydraulic fluid possibly. But in real world less noise means softer hit softer hit means less power it’s just common sense.

I think you should alternate tools. Guy in the blue shirt is very slow on the trigger. Even when he is the one doing the countdown.

because not same max torque. surge 450lbs. regular impact driver 1300lbs

I just started the video, so I am gonna be disappointed if you guy's didn't use a decibel meter to show just how much quieter the surge is. I have the regular fuel in both M12 & M18 and have been interested in the surge. Edit: Nice review and thanks for the decibel readout.

New tool 🔧 can't out perform an old tool..lmao

that scoring system is horrible....shouldnt just be black and white system. also i know it is impossible to tell the longevity just from this video, but i wish at least they analyzed the hammer from a theoretical point of view like AVE did.

Your testing has too much human error to be accurate.

Surge sucks. GEN 3 FUEL all day. Power and speed is everything.

Also why the hell does everyone always have to say subscribe and tap that bell. I make a point not to do that if they ask people to do so. I say if a channel is good enough to subscribe and hit the bet then their content and the over quality of their information across the board with show that and cause someone to want to do though things. When I’m asked I say f that. It’s like going to dinner and when the check comes your tip accordingly but the waitress doesn’t say please don’t forget to tip the 20% please. You tip what you feel is fair for the service.

I have those tools, and this video was boring. Only 1 socket too. How cheap.