One Doesn't Survive: Milwaukee's New M12 Gen 4 M18 Drivers 

Negative 16 subs on this video so far, we don't make the tools guys, just test 'em! :P We obviously would have preferred it survive through testing so we could have clean data on this one. We purchased a replacement, and we along with others will be trying to find out if its possible to break it again and how. Doing various tasks. We'll post a link here for that. If it's a fluke, that's worth knowing as much as anything else. Torque who started this channel is working for Astro Tools who dont make anything like an impact driver, though it's still worth knowing when watching videos like these. Always look to several sources!

I think it's about time that we switch to 5/16 collets and bits, but I guess it's not as big an issue when you're actually using them to drive screws

I was more excited about the lighting on the nose than improvements in power/speed. I think that when Milwaukee asked the trades guys what they wanted to see in a new impact lighting was the most requested. I know that's what I would have asked for. The older gen stuff already had plenty of power given the 1/4 hex drive. I work in plenty of dark places and the extra light would be helpful

It would be nice to see a comparison between the new m12 vs the previous model

I think that we are reaching a point where technology in motor and impact drive have exceeded the capability of the metals that we are using. It's hard to blame the bit, that's a ton of power on a 1/4" piece of metal.

I have the m12. And let me tell you. It’s my favorite impact. Very light weight and powerful. Just feels good

What's going to happen is they're going to make these drivers too powerful and the supporting hardware wont handle it.i think its time they focus on durability and not outright power.

I think what I'm learning is that the M12 offerings are becoming more and more capable. The M18 platform has always had the capability. But, now the light-weight and compactness of the M12 doesn't come with as much of a power loss. You might go through batteries a lot faster with them, but you're not really lacking power anymore.

Bought a M12 impact driver 3/8 drill combo years back. Instantly hooked. With the bitty batteries, my young kids could help out by driving deck screws into the fence and whatnot. At the point now where I think I will have to get into a M18 impact wrench for auto work.

I have the gen 3 m12. Its awesome with 1/4 drive sockets. I use it for top engine stuff. I also have the 3/8 stubby m12 impact, and I usually go for the driver for most lighter stuff. Its also awesome for just general stuff around the house. If you want I can lend you the gen 3 m12.

I think they made the m12 gen 2 and 3 so good it's gonna be hard to top it . Like other commenters said they should probably focus more on durability , usability and versatility rather than just sheer power at this point . But then again power claims make tools fly off the shelves so that's what the marketing department is gonna push.

I love it when you break a tool! Manufacturers beware, this tool is going to get tested AND most users of your tools will know everything. Better make them good! Thanks for another great video.

I knew it, I knew I shouldn't buy the new M18 until your video came out. I follow a ton of other channels and no disrespect to them but I wasn't about to buy one without seeing what you found. This channel rocks!

Having such a high torque impact driver seems pointless to me. The fact that it breaks the bits so easily kind of verifies that feeling. I have an M12 Fuel Impact driver (gen 3) that I use for screws and bolts/nuts that I can use with 1/4 drive (generally up to 13mm tops), and an M12 Fuel 3/8” drive impact for bigger stuff. The 1/4 hex driver is good for small stuff that probably needs less then 30ft*lbs, and I use the 3/8” drive for bigger stuff. No bits to break, it’s more compact in actual usage since it doesn’t need the long bit to work. Yes, it’s another tool to buy, but $120 for a tool that you use every day is nothing for a professional.

Saturday relaxed, almost buying the ultimate tech from Milwaukee, until I stopped to watch your video, by far, the best choice are the 2018 models MILWAUKEE 2853-20 M18 FUEL & MILWAUKEE 2804-20 M18 FUEL. Both tools are in eBay 89.99 each from many sellers. Thanks bro, I love your channel!

Sound like a "right tool for the right job" situation to me. When I bought my m12 Hydraulic Impact, I choose that one over the standard Gen 3 because it was lighter, quieter, and smaller, even though the marketing admitted it made less peak inch pounds over the standard Gen 3 impact. My reasoning was, I was going to use this tool to install coax cable on house eves every day using cable clips with 1 inch screws, the tool was going to be used over my head almost always in uncomfortable spaces and positions and I wanted comfort over power. Trust me when you get draw the short stick and get nothing but old post wire homes and you gotta replace over 1000 feet of cable with a heavy drill, you're going to want to run to your van to cry for a little when you cant steady arm to get that last screw clip in.

Some times it's not all about HP but functionality M12 is a fraction of the weight compared to the M18 so running deck screws all day I would definitely consider the M12

I love my M12 fuel gen 3 drill and impact driver combo kit. It took everything I threw at it. I used that impact driver on 8 inch medium lags in one sitting and used up 2 bars of battery left on an xc3.0 and the anvils only got as warm as a stack of fresh copies from a photocopier at the end. Same thing with driving 100 3 inch coarse thread wood screws with the heads recessed in one sitting.

Amazing. All that hype from Milwaukee for this? Now, I'm really curious how the Flex does with 3.5 and 6.0 stacked batteries. Great testing, as usual!

I think you have to use the XC battery to get the numbers the manufacturer states, that got noticed on VCG construction, the no power issue will be the solder has melted on one of the joints, i used to get this on the original sawzall all the time, im not overly happy with the milwaukee tools currently, and seeing the new ones are not improved alot if at all on the old is even more of a reason to wait a bit longer for the new shiny tool. Having a better light isnt enough to upgrade.

The DCF850 is short as hell, and doesn't break minutes in. ...Hard to say what the best impact you should buy is.

I just got the 3453 M12 for under dash work on passenger cars and it’s working very well for that job. Not a screwdriver, I know but this is versatile enough to get the job done.

My impact of choice is always M12 size, weight, and performance. Then new Gen is worth it imo it feels faster and more powerful. However we are reaching the point where the tool will break themselves unless they use better materials

Basically got my m12 driver for free. Home Depot is running a m12 high speed ratchet and hex driver plus two batteries and charger for $250… that’s cheaper than the ratchet and battery combo alone.

I just don't think its wise to run 1/2" adapters on an impact driver and use larger sockets. Regardless if it can or not. I've ruined 1 impact driver doing that and partially ruined a chuck on another one making bits not stay in well. One reason why they sell impact nut drivers only up to about 5/8 or so.

Is the answer none of them survive? I’m a big Milwaukee fan, I’ve also had my m12 impact break driving in a sheet rock screw, and my m18 broke when I tried to break free my crank bolt. I was pretty sure it wasn’t going to be stout enough, but for the tool to break simply from trying to loosen a bolt, well, I thought that was the tools job.

I have the M18 and LOVE it. It's the most powerful Stubby drill you can get plus tri-led and very lightweight. Very hard to find just walking in a store and won't be on display either. Easy to find on-line. All the guys at work are jealous!!

If it's the M12 that dies, I'm gonna need someone to torture test the M12 drill, the actually compelling part of that duo.

Went to Summit Racing in Ohio and they have the greatest Milwaukee display I have ever seen.

I kinda figured that about the m18 honestly. The specs are too similar to the previous generation. The m12 was a surprise that it did so poorly, but again, it’s really out of its league on that particular chart. Mine does great on cabinet hardware, but that’s more of its intended purpose lol.

Nice to see a glimpse of the warranty process and that you can get a refund for it. Nothing sucks more than trying to warranty something and just get silence, or worse get your review censored for being "too negative." *cough* Amazon *cough* *cough*

I wonder if the impact bricked itself after getting jammed up? I have no idea how it would know that but it seems suspicious how it died. Maybe after detecting so many trigger pulls with no movement it shut itself down. That's not too crazy to believe given the new drills have kickback protection. Or maybe some component just blew up. Given the way impacts work maybe they have no jam up motor protection given that they shouldn't ever jam up and it fried itself.

The company that makes those adapters must love you all

Milwaukee are notorious for overpowering products to beat competition. My mate had a Milwaukee impact driver that constantly broke bits. Even my expensive Wera bits. They only last a day

Wow two videos in 2 days! Nice!

This new little M12 seems like a nice contender to DeWalts newish DCF840. Would like to see how that little buddy does

I sell Milwaukee daily and process tons of warranties for milwaukee. Milwaukee has sent me other peoples tools that were sent in for repair (as in, I've received multiple warranty shipments of tools that have been fixed and they belong to other companies and other people not even in my state). Milwaukee has lost a couple of my customer tools. Milwaukee even sent me a D Ring impact that was still completely in pieces because they said it wasn't covered and customer didn't want to pay $150. It was literally the whole tool disassembled in a box they sent me back. I've had them deny warranty on a 2 speed grease gun with invoice and proof of purchase 3 weeks prior I sent off a chainsaw and got a brand new one box and all 5 days later. I got a 2767-20 that I never claimed. I got a multi-tool that I never claimed. As much as I love Milwaukee, they have issues

Can you guys do a drill video? I sometimes need to cut holes with a big spade bit or punch through aluminum and steel. RPM matters a lot, and I am dubious about many claims

7:09 wow I was considering selling my Milwaukee gen3.5 impact driver and get a gen4 that just confirmed my decision, I’ll stick with the gen3.5!

solidified my thoughts… i’ll be happy to keep my gen3 m12 and picking up gen3 m18’s on sale! good vid!

Glad to see what dealing with returns would be like.

I prefer slower impacting tools, they undo just as tight bolts and dont constantly wear out and break driver bits and adapters. no they dont put small screws in as quick but that's a trade off im willing to accept. That said i wont judge a tool based on one failure, there's always a few duds in mass produced tools, we'll see if it become a common occurrence though.

Thanks for GIVING your opinion on picking the Gn3 over the Gn4 I just needed to hear that before going to home depot

Great video bro, That was disappointing that it broke. so far it seams the upgrades aren't worth it. but we will see what they have is tool sales this fall

I've been having the same issues with milwaukee tools and batteries failing on me, but seems to be the newer tools having problems.

That’s disappointing - seems like marketing and volume sales is what they care about.

any chance you can check out the makita 12v ratchet WR100DZ and the 12v brushless 3/8 impact gun DTW180Z i use both on a daily basis and find them to be great vs milwaukees stubby 12v gun and high speed ratchet but would love to see the rankings !! much love from australia

Did I miss a re-test on the Gen 4 M18? Very curious whether that was just bad luck or whether we have another case of a new design that's got some serious problems.

Thanks for posting this information. The little M12 Surge driver looked interesting but the seriously exaggerated performance claims are a deal breaker. Another thing Milwaukee does is exaggerate the Watt-hour ratings of the M12 battery packs. For power ratings of battery pasks to make sense the manufacturer must use the nominal cell voltage but Milwaukee uses the peak voltage of the M12 pack instead. For the M18 packs they correctly use the nominal cell voltage.

I think you should test out the new Metabo HPT Bolt wh36dc. I have a Japanese import of it. It's a newer 36v, not the original triple hammer.

There's almost never a reason to upgrade a tool unless they change something drastically. The impacts just didnt change much/enough.

With the power these things are making, i'm suprised that someone hasn't started trying to push 5/16 or 3/8 hex chuck model.

The old m18 seems like the best deal

We need an impact driver with 3/8" collet

I know it's not really what you do, but I would love to see a tear down comparison between the Gen 3 and Gen 4. Whatever they changed for the Gen 4, it breaks down easily and often when used on larger fasteners. Which is weird since the new Hercules impact driver seems to be the same impact as the Gen 4, but it doesn't have any of the same issues.

Am I the only one that would be interested in the M12 driver if it were a 1/4" square drive and not hex? It would be great for a lot of top end disassembly. Nice and small and compact. When you put the adapter on it that adds nearly 3" in length.

This is why everyone needs to make their top of the line impact drivers with hybrid collets like the Bosch Freaks. These tools have exceeded the capabilities of 1/4 inch adapters for years now, so I wish someone would use that solution on a tool where it actually matters. Also, if Harbor Freight actually makes their Hercules line a viable option in the coming years the way their newest impact wrenches seem to be, Milwaukee won't be able to get away with such incredibly poor warranty support anymore.

Home Depot must really be going downhill. I saw more employees than customers at the last 2 I went to with many of the common items sold out. Despite spending 30min looking at appliances, not a single person came over to help. Even Lowe's is better these days, and Ace is always closer with pricepoints getting more similar every day.

I use the impact drivers while working on cars. The 2853 can handle about 95% of the fasteners on a normal passenger car - not sure if that's "abuse" or just normal use!

also so you can remove "sold only in japan" for makita 18v, it is released in rest of the world now

My M12 3/8 gun started making a weird noise, I took it apart and one of the planet gears had a broken tooth on the gear. They didn't have one in stock so they gave me a whole new gun.

The only time I want to hear the word "NO" when I have a warranty claim is when customer service says "No Problem we will get taken care of !"

I'd take this more serious if the correct battery was used on each tool. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Awesome content outside of that.

It really all depends on what you need as well. I work on aircrafts, M18s are a big no for them. Way to over powered, woukd strip every screw and end up drilling through a panel. The M12s even at times can be to much. But i have the 3453-20 M12 Gen 3 Impact. Most of the guy's at the hanger all use it. Absolutely great tool.

Another thing to keep in mind, M12's are p weak to battery degredation too. This isnt an excuse for it, it's really bad how many of my batteries have just crapped out on M12.

new xc 12v batteries will most likely contain samsung 25S cells which are currently the most powerful ones new to 20S. far more power compared to 25R

We'll have to wait and see what the m12 can do with the HO batteries.

All im missing is a 1/4 impact stubby and the 2767 1/2 impact now!

I wish you could start letting us know what kind of knives you are using in the videos, I love knives and try to keep up with them. The one in this video looks pretty nice. There is nothing better than a good quality knife to carry and use.

You guys need a "for science" segment for those socket adapters you keep breaking. Buy a dozen of all the brands you can find and hopefully not damage any more collets on those drivers

On its own the M12 impact driver is a bad deal... However, I got mine with an M12 Hammer drill + 3 batteries for $160 at home Depot a few months ago for small stuff around the house... At that price if you can find it it's kind of a no-brainer.

Great test to find the weak link, but personally I use a small 1/2 impact for large screws.

I'm happy with my gen3 and the last M12 driver they put out. Except the trigger on the m12, sometimes it doesn't go full bean's, u gotta mess with it alittle

You guys should test m18 and m12 surges

I killed a couple of Dewalt impact drivers by making them do a 3/8 drive's work. I wonder if this is the same type of failure.

Thanks this video just saved me some money on buying that new m12 impact driver.

I'd like to see a test with the battery-powered Metabo 1/2" drive. Thanks

I figured the line up. Bauer Brushless vs. SKIL vs. Kobalt (non XTR) vs. Hart. Battle of the “B” budgets.

Really wanna see the new kobalt driver and hercules driver just for a comparison of new budget tools. Also apparently Dewalt is coming out with a dcf 845

You just ruined a lot of new gen 4 owners entire month lol

Thumbs up for the tri light! Hell ya

If you guys are interested in testing a 2553 and a 2462 (old brushed M12 driver), what would the turnaround time be like?

Wow, some pretty surprising results.

The husky adapters are very strong I would recommend them.

always appreciate the metric unit , thx

What good is an impact wrench if you can't use it like a hammer once in a while? And the strange warranty response by Milwaukee must be embarrassing for them.

Would love to see a test against the Gen 3 M12 driver, it is probably my most used cordless tool. Great for all my around the house stuff and the lighter stuff in the engine bay. Have no idea what sort of beans it makes though, so for all I know the disappointing numbers on the Gen 4 are still an improvement.

I've had more Milwaukee stuff break than any other brand TBH. Just returned an M12 3/8 right angle driver to Acme today.

Keep up the great work, really appreciate all your hard work

We're at max power peaks especially when you throw stacked lithium cells at these types of tools. No need for more power since the 1/4 inch adapters cant handle them. Now fine tune them for longevity.

I would've honestly donated my old m12 as I have two of them since they went on clearance at my HD

The main reason I don't buy the M12 generally, is because the M12 batteries don't have the longevity of (specifically the M18 5.0 XC). I would like to be proven incorrect with the new M12 battery pack offerings.

Bought the compact m12 drill and impact kit at work, gave it away to a new guy, couldn't stand them. Hard to quantify why, but i think the awful handle was the biggest part. Running the battery into the handle makes sense to save space, but it feels awful. Much prefer the makita, bosch, etc standard impacts and drills

Hi! I live in Vietnam. I am looking to buy a battery screwdriver and I am deciding between the 3 brands that I think are the best: Makita, Milwaukee and Dewalt. I know that your channel has accurate, objective and reputable assessments of the quality of machinery brands. Please give me your opinion on my question: I want to choose a battery-powered screwdriver that lasts over time, a machine with the longest average life, 1 of 3 brands Makita, Milwaukee and Dewalt. A machine that can be used for a long time over time includes factors: getting wet due to going out in the rain, being hit hard by falling, the possibility of damage to the control circuit board with long-term use and other damages. other miscellaneous miscellaneous. Please let me know which of the 3 brands I should choose for long-term use according to the factors I mentioned above.

Id stick with with the Makita 40V ecosystem, better build quality and ergonomics.

Long story short the Gen 4 doesn’t seem like a worthy replacement if you already own the Gen 3 tools. I got my 2997-22 kit for $200 and I couldn’t be happier. Tried and true

How did that new m12 impact underperform so bad? Thought Milwaukee was usually very close to their advertised specs?

I don't have an M18 impact driver find the M12 previous gen of the M12 in this video to be plenty for what I do with it plus it's narrower body fits in tighter spots. i do have a M12 Stubby where I could pull out if I needed more power with a 3/8" to 1/4" hex adapter. Yet as shown in this video the power for these M18 impact drivers is too much for the 1/4" hex bits anyway. Which means you'll burn through more not so cheap bits to feed your need for power... Just doesn't make sense to me. Anyway I guess if I'm into deck building as contractor it may be needed but when I had a 18V the #2 setting out of 3 was always my go to for finess.

I just want that m12 for the dewalt light configuration in front

M12 seems more practical tbh,there been a lot of issues with the gen 4 m18