My review for season1 of the new Netflix show 'Mindhunter', created by Joe Penhall. Follow Me on Twitter: / colebrax Follow Me on Facebook: / geekin.nyc Subscribe to My Podcast Wrong Reel on iTunes: itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/w...
Probably because from his perspective (like the serial killers) he doesn't really care. Holden's relationship with Debbie is one in which he basically uses her to fulfill his need to satisfy his ego. Her cheating was humiliating to his dominance. So I guess it would have been easy for him to "forgive" her.
There was not any evidence of Debbie cheating ; she was not kissing that other guy ....she was not even hugging him . He was just standing in front of her . Debbie knew Holden was coming ; she had invited him to be there ....so why pick then if she was a cheater . From my experience with cheaters they do not want to be caught or have their girlfriend / boyfriend in the same room as who they are cheating with. It was a classroom experiment for sociology not a make out party . I did however get the feeling Debbie was probably talking about Holden to the guy standing in front of her ....as a semi look of guilt was on her face but Holden assumed the worst (giving the dark setting it was not a far leaping assumption on his part but he still misunderstood and let his ego get the better of his actions)that's why they made an agreement to not bring up Debbie's sociology experiments after they made up. In there relationship they have both made mistakes ....it takes two to break or make a relationship.
Thanks, Josh! I thought McCallany was a total badass as well. I saw a great interview where he basically said that working with Fincher like this made him feel as if he finally achieved a major career milestone.
Ending was a bit weird to me. And I wasn’t a fan of how the writers never confronted the Debbie cheating situation besides the underwhelming scene at the laundromat. But the ending was holden having a panic attack?
theres a ted talk about studying psycho's and the guy said after his studies he applied it in his real life and felt like he was losing his mind and was very paranoid about a lot of people
Those scenes were to show how their relationship is falling apart. You can see how Holden is the problem and that an example of how bad it's getting. The irony is that Holden himself is quite the narcissist. He feels himself to be above everyone but this is why he can relate to a killer because he is developing the same tendencies.
Medusa I thought the mystery man was Holden later down the road maybe after being driven crazy, one of the drawing he burned in the barrel looked like Holden’s gf in the black lingerie
Ao Va Tench's kid probably came from The Eastern Block and because of the neglect he had being in an orphanage- he has dissociative disorder for one can't form attachments- and give us a few more seasons- he will be killing animals and working up to people.
Tench's son definitely seems to be getting groomed for some serious darkness but in that Tench is based on a real life person, I'd have to do some research to see if his son ever snapped in real life.
I do hope they go that route with Tench's kid because if he is a sociopath and developing violent characteristics, it would challenge their theory that serial killers are serial killers because of how badly they were treated when they were young. Tench and his wife try to create a loving environment, but it's clearly not working. So the question is whether serial killers are born or nurtured into what they become.
I found the first episode to be the least intriguing, but I'd heard about the show and had a feeling it was going to be good, and I have to say that from episode 2 I was absolutely hooked. I think the introduction of Ed Kemper is what tapped the intrugue factor, the fact that quite a likeable guy could do what he did, honestly the Kemper actor is one of the best from the series, found myself laughing and also recoilimg from the concersations tgey had with him
I have a question friends, do you remember the scene when psychologist wendy goes down to wash her clothes and you hear a kitty, she then brings her tuna until once the tuna was starting to rot with worms in it. What is this scene trying to say? I'm thinking in a more complicated way
My only thing with the principal is did Holden create a monster with his actions. What if the tickling was a pacifier for the principals urges. Now what if the firing and lack of this vice create a much worst person in the principal.
Or it could be the stressor for that guy to start mountain biking. They are trying to figure this out, even now, they can guess at a trigger, but not what the trigger will do until after the fact.
and what's with him showing up at the market as Debbie and Holden are leaving? Doesn't he live in a different city?Shouldn't that be a huge red flag for Holden?
I read up on the BTK killer. Doesn't seem like there's much of a story, this season basically covered his main string of terror and he wasn't caught until decades later.
John Douglas wrote a book about hunting down Dennis Rader (BTK killer) It should be interesting to read. I'm considering reading Mindhunter myself. However, I just learned that season 2 will most likely be focused on the Atlanta Child Murders, one of the many famous cases John Douglas worked on. So you have more material to look up James, lol!
This show isn't about an FBI agent studying the psychology of serial killers, I think this show is about an FBI agent named Holden Ford slowly going insane and realizing he is starting to look no different from the serial killers he interviews.
Absolutely but I imagine that season 2 will be all about his efforts to claw his way back to sanity to hunt down the serial killer teased throughout the season.
@SquidBag No clue. Conversation is nearly 2 years old. Someone might have left several comments and deleted them or I misclicked and responded on the wrong thread.
Mindhunter really captivated me! I'm a big fan of Criminal Minds, a show based on the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit and criminal profiling tactics. I also love the movies Red Dragon and Silence of the Lambs. John Douglas is a huge influence on all those. So Mindhunter grew on me real fast! David Fincher brings a freshness to the true crime genre every time. He directed only a handful of episodes here but I love his style. The writers are great. I love the cinematography and I hope they release a soundtrack for this show soon lol. The last 6 minutes of the ending freaked me out but I liked how it showed how Holden's bold tactics come with a price. Criminal psychology isn't for the faint of heart. Based on the characteristics, the mystery guy is supposed to be the infamous real-life "BTK" killer. So I'm guessing in season 2, he will play a much bigger role. I think once Holden heals, we will get to see him use his criminal profiling skills on that guy. I look forward to seeing what they do with season 2, as long as they keep the strong team they have now. I don't want this to go down like True Detective season 2, if you know what I mean. Sorry that my comments are always so long lol. Awesome review as always James! :)
Thanks for listening to my rant. I need to do some digging into the BTK killer but it seems as if I'll have plenty of time to get up to speed before Season 2. Fingers crossed, the next season will not as you mentioned pull a repeat of what happened with True Detective. No worries about the long comment; I always love hearing from you.
Lunasterre van Heck I think it is just a symbol. Inspite her stable life and career, she lacks affection and companion. She doesn't even want kids so maybe the cat is an alternative or a reminder of herself. It can also be explore next season that there might be a potential serial killer around who killed the cat.
I saw it as a metaphor . She was teasing the cat to come forward the same way Holden was teasing the killers to speak about their feelings. I also found the stereotype of a lesbian loving cats hilarious.
Debbie wasn't given much depth. It felt like she was just a side character. There were some parts especially the last two episode that felt a little rush for me. I thought I miss an episode. I got confuse when they were shown back together after the implied cheating occur. It was obvious that they will break up after she felt rejected for being edgy. Besides, holden became Mr. Know it All guy and lack some sense of restrain. His co-workers do not approve of his behavior as well. When Debbie mention that Holden drove Devier into the emotional response made it sound like he manipulated everything. She did the same thing to prove him she was right by guiding him with questions that arrive to the conclusion that she wanted a break up which was only assumptions of Holden. I like the complex approach of this show. The gray areas of knowing what is acceptible and not. Holden's behavior was also unusual which was pointed by Bill. He's very calm and indifferent when talking to serial killers compared to Bill who was sensitive and hot-tempered.
How was she impossible? Holden was being a dick several times, a little self absorbed and in love with himself. And what was that about when he rejects her making a special effort to dress edgy for him? Or him bothering her when she had an assignment to complete? Only thing on her is the way she became a little unhinged after his rejection, didn't seem patient or nurturing, the study partner might have been nothing more than a study partner, the makers deliberately stopped showing her to be affectionate after the rejection to show her growing increasingly distant, that transition wasn't well sketched out.
Hey did anybody noticed the fact that some of the drawings that the guy at the end was burning represented the pictures from Holden and Tench murder cases. I have a theorie that the guy is actually Brian the son of Tench. What do you guys think?
I like the idea of him being Tench's son but If you think about it, Brain is what 5 -6 years old in the 1970's and the man looks to be in his early thirties which would make the time period around the early 2000's and those scenes were still in the 1970s. I actually thought it was the Zodiac killer, but now that I think of it, he just might be a main character villain in season 2 for Ford and Tench to catch using their findings and research to find the guy.
That's my feeling as well. He'll be the main antagonist in Season 2. Whether or Tench's son grows up to be disturbed as well, we'll have to wait and see.
I absolutely loved this series, it was just so compelling. The relationship between the 2 main characters and the effects their work has on their personal and professional lives gripped me from start to finish. Also there was always a story that didn't run alongside the main arc in each episode which kept me interested, not that the main story was lacking because it wasn't at all but the separate little stories just added another layer of brilliance for me. The writing, acting, music selection, direction and everything else was just top notch telly for me and not one explosion or police chase in sight, awesome!! Oh yeah, pretty sure the guy we are getting glimpses of is Dennis Rader, this passage reminds me of a scene from the series~ "Rader devised a plan. He gathered together his hit kit, consisting of a gun, cords, knives, various tools for breaking and entering. ". He was also a security installation guy (which the guy in the series also is) and would use this cover to target his victims.
Seems to be the consensus that Dennis Rader aka the BTK Killer is going to be the central antagonist in season 2. I have some homework to do before that season is released.
Debbie was written so weirdly. Every scene between her and Ford sounds like they're aliens trying to pretend they're humans in a relationship. Also I feel like the actress who played Debbie was maybe not the best, but that could also be how she was written. That was the only part that I didn't like about the show though.
very in-depth review, the comments touching on the music score is very nice for music-illiterates like me. Instant sub. Interested in hearing your opinion on other shows/movies.
Holy Shit! Why are you the only person I’ve seen talking about this? It is balls to the wall amazing. This is like the first time I watched hockey in HD, jarring how much better it can be. How can I watch Criminal Minds again? I can’t dude, like I can’t watch sports in SD.
Mindhunter definitely is going to make a lot of crime shows seem painfully old fashioned and irrelevant by comparison. They really nailed it. Going to be a long wait for season 2.
I have read the book Mindhunter and many of John Douglas' books and the Mindhunter series is such an awesome interpretation of the written story . Have a read to those who enjoy books !!! Such a great review - thanks very much !!
Thanks, Briony! I was blown away by this season. Makes so many crime shows seem irrelevant by comparison. Netflix continues to hit one home run after another.
I know I'm close to a year late, but I finally just started watching this. I loved it so much that I finished the whole season in 2 days. Can't believe I waited this long
Holden is like the new hire who quickly realizes the dysfunction in the workplace and slowly starts fading away over the years. He's going to wind up like Bill.
No, I think he just had a meltdown when he realized just how much he has in common with Kemper after living in this world for so long. It'll be interesting to see his comeback in season 2 (assuming he doesn't go completely off the deep end).
I was gripped all 10 episodes the pacing was pretty slow and the relationship between Holden and Debbie was sterile.its obvious the man burning the photos is it the btk killer how would this play out because he was caught around the early 2000s. what do you think of Tenchs son also showing killer tendencies or could possibly be a serial killer? I think he has asperges syndrome. Other than that this is one of my favourite shows can’t wait for season 2.
As far as the principal goes, now there are just detailed rules in elementary schools about what conduct can occur between students and staff. At my kids' school in kindergarten your kid has to be able to put on her own coat because the teacher isn't allowed to help. That's maybe extreme but it's where we are now -- and it also removes the behaviors from the realm of the personal. The school board in this case could have done the same -- set up some rules or guidelines about comportment that would have governed the principal's behavior, versus letting him go.
Great review to a great show. I can't add much to the conversation around here that hasn't been brought up, besides one thing maybe: I think the people who think Bill's son is a sociopath are taking things too literally. Him ending up being a serial killer himself would absolutely kill the realistic atmosphere they're going for. I think the drama around his son revolves mainly around the idea that Bill is so concerned with the things he sees in his job, that his son having the slightest bit of "disturbing" behaviour is reason enough to believe and expect the worst. That teacher, how odd his tickling may have been, was still right about one thing: him and Holden increasingly get more paranoid about their environment (which is understandable, given that they're preoccupied with the worst people on earth) and they will never be able to completely shut down the part of their minds that know how painfully dark the world can be.
oh yeah and what made the ending so great for me (no - Holden is not going to become a serial killer, lol) is how numb Holden's become about the victims (because he has to cope with it) and how sure of himself and in a way superior to his coworkers/interview subjects he thinks he is - and then he himself lets his guard down right next to a serial killer, not noticing the increasing danger around him. He's trapped in front of Ed, talking about his dead girls, because that's what he is in that moment right now; a clueless, even a bit naive little girl falling for a trap. After dealing with his cases for months, he, finally, clearly and truly realizes what it really means to be in that position of absolute, paralyzing fear of death he so cold-bloodedly describes in his analysing talks. To me that is a way greater and deserving twist than a "good guy turns bad"-surprise could ever dream to be.
That last episode absolutely blew my mind. I was listening to Zeppelin's "In the Light" days days afterwards. Totally agree about how the show will avoid the rather predictable twists of either Bill's son or Holden becoming a killer. Given that the show is based on true events, I can't imagine the show will stray too far from the actual history of these characters.
This is the type of show that proves that you don’t have to have explosions and fighting scenes to be intense (not that any of that is a problem) but this show is just really good and it surprised me in a way...
Good show. Enjoying it as much as True Detective. I like the "obsessive" characteristics of Holden. I hope they explore some of the other central characters in this way.
Totally agree about this show being up there with the 1st season of True Detective. Hopefully they can avoid the sophomore slump in season 2. Fingers crossed, David Fincher sticks around.
Agree - this first season was fantastic and it's always nice to see the lovely Anna Torv. The music was so good I also added a Mindhunter Soundtrack playlist for your aural edification - ru-vid.com/group/PLeLiO7RVxHYfoqZuXR0N7z9F3fVTqje1P
SPOILER ALERT: I also don't understand why Holden didn't just explain to Debbie that the heels she picked (because she saw him looking at them) are the exact same ones he bought for the serial killer.
I have a very simple theory about the mystery killer.It does not take place on the same timeline. The mystery man is actually Bill Tench's son who grows up to be a serial killer. How do i know this ? At 2:18 you can see toy police car and the door has the same diamond shaped cutouts with glass panes. The only other house that has those is Bill Tench's house (which is now occupied by new tenants / owners). His son was also neglected just like the other serial killers had an enstranged relationship with their fathers. He was socially awkard and never fitted in.
The only flaw in that theory is that the show is based on historical events and I doubt Season 2 will deviate that much from what actually happened in reality.
My gawd I loved it. I was transfixed for all 10 episodes. It was a bit of a slow start but then it shot off like a rocket. This truly scratched the itch I have been wanting to be scratched for this genre. I haven’t seen a good crime thriller since the likes of The Girl with The Dragon Tattoo, The Red Dragon, Silence of the Lambs, and Seven. Leave it to NetFlix to meet that need. I really hope this series continues for many more and that the likes of Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer make an appearance. I agree as to where the next season will follow and I just can’t wait. Also I felt the foot tickler/principal got what he deserved. All he had to do was stop and everyone would have been happy but he is so compelled to continue molesting kids that his inappropriate addiction is what caused him to lose his job. I would love to see in season 2 where that character ends up. Great review
Many thanks for checking out my review! I'm crossing my fingers that they successfully recruit David Fincher to work on the second season. I'm not an expert on the B.T.K. killer but it is my understanding that he'll be the central antagonist in the next season. Going to be a long wait but at least we'll have time to research what the real life figure was all about.
SPOILER ALERT -- I agree that a lot of stuff was dropped. As Medusa says they didn't go into what happened between Debbie and Holden over the cheating; we don't get a good conclusion to the Altoona, PA murder (since to me it was implied that it may have been the wife who killed the victim and not either of the men - but then in the explanation that was missing. That would have fit with her taking out her anger on the wounded vulnerable woman or a "mercy killing - but I feel like they took the easier way out). They also basically delved a little into and then dropped the storyline around Bill's home life and his obviously autistic son. I also didn't feel like they handled the evolution of the relationship between Holden and Bill well - it's not clear to me how they got from there to here. I mean we go from Bill inviting Holden and Debbie to his home to meet his family to him moving into a private office and barely speaking to him outside of criticism and snarls. All of this without any well-developed progression or large falling out. It also wasn't clear to me how Holden doesn't get at least sanctioned by Shepard at various points. Even if he wants to march into hell, Shepard could put a stop to it by suspending him or confining him to the office, etc. Otherwise, it was a really good show.
Then, how did you catch me? It's all in the court records. What does it matter now? It doesn't matter to me, Will. You had... disadvantages. What disadvantages? ... You're insane. (Actually we're the same)
If the show were not based on an FBI agent's memoirs, I would totally buy it, but because this show is loosely based on history, they only have but so much room to maneuver.
I thought so too but I don't think they are going to that route. Besides, this is a show that tells how criminal profiling began. Their approach is yet to change and improved. They had to go deeper and think like criminals in order to outsmart them and figure their next move or target. I came across with this show after watching criminal minds so I think that is just how profiling works though ofcourse Holden is acting over the top and strange in some occasions.
I'll create a separate channel that reviews shows and movies precisely the way you like. All kidding aside, I alway open with an overall summary of my impressions in case someone wants a bite-sized review. That is precisely why I did the spoiler free video of episodes 1 & 2 first.
To be a suspect... People fear the unknown and most people take the path of least resistance. Exhibit a) Rookie cop in NY city , never got to see the ghetto, feels uncomfortable patroling the streets, finally it happens the moment where he's holding a gun to a real man oppresed by the system, Skyler the rookie cop while holding and aiming at "Suspect" starts shaking all due to his little brain of his and believed everything that was said about men of color... the suspect has his hands up in the air, Skyler shaking increases and his senses start to shut down from reality, suspect makes a move and yells ... Skylers is fearing for his life and shoots him...... minutes later the scene turns more like Wall street at peak season. Skyler slowly coming to his senses looks at paramedics trying to confort the suspects daughter that was in the back seat in her car seat and her dad tried to communicate to her that everything was gonna be just fine to comfort her only to witness what the system has created at such age! "TO BE A SUSPECT"
I just finished bingeing this whole season and my first thought after the last scene was that Holden had lost his mind and became a serial killer. He had been the mysterious man plotting and burning the drawings in the fire. I haven't looked back to see if they actually look enough alike, but I could totally find this plausible as Holden grew closer to the serial killer mindset. How tragic, yet fitting would it be to see him become the one thing he yearns to understand so intimately. Anyone else have thoughts on this? My mind is racing right now!
That would be a blast to watch but because the show is based loosely on real life agents and their memoirs that direction is unlikely. It appears that Dennis Rader aka the BTK Killer is going to be the villain in season 2.
I certainly used the word casually but I never claimed to be using strict medical definitions. I think what I meant by the word is fairly obvious in the context of the video.
Holden was the only character to have development and that was only in the last episode and the pacing was slow. The only thing that brought me back was the serial killers. The only other plot threads aside from Holden's were dropped and never picked up again.
A VERY disappointing series. The book was much better and intriguing. The TV series starts well, but is finished by episode 3. After that, they condescend by forcing stereotypical female roles into the story. The lead character's girlfriend and the portrayal of their relationship is superfluous at best. And casting the lead character as a vanilla naive young detective is an insulting cop-out. Could have been MUCH better with the original content as a source. Instead - Hollywood did Hollywood, and did a show about what they think about the rest of us.
While that would be a fun twist, it is very unlikely. Holden Ford is based on FBI agent John Douglas who co-wrote the book that is the inspiration for the show.
No .....Holden is not and does not become a serial killer. The Serial Killer the series is hinting at throughout the show is BTK ....it is all taking place in the same time frame. The series is not jumping to the feature showing Holden later on it is showing Holden now and BTK . The series will meet the two of them up much later.
