I have those thoughts randomly that my idols (who are mostly men because I stan mostly boy groups and male soloists) may be misogynistic, sexist and homophobic and what I see is just a show. And as a female presenting non binary and bisexual person it creeps me out. What if I don't see the signs of them being misogynists ONLY because they don't interact with women because of the dating bans? What if the dating bans are here to protect them from fans discovering who they really are? I always assume the best when it comes to people because I don't to assume bad things but really. The fear makes me question even the male idols who showed a lot of times their respect for women and minorities because I'm this scared that my idol may be just this good at acting. It becomes paranoid with time. I really don't want to live in my perfect little bubble where everyone is a good person so I need to come out of it sometimes to remind myself that people are just bad sometimes. And I know that misogyny and sexism is something that exists everywhere but everytime I hear about it in relation to South Korea I feel like the person who's saying this is talking about my country. The only difference I can think of right now is that in South Korea, it's young men and in my country it's mostly older people's mindset. I'm a proud subscriber of yours because you're here speaking up when someone's saying bullshit and you're not afraid to correct people. Maybe you are (because I don't know you personally) but you're doing it anyway and I appreciate it so much. In a world that still needs a lot to fix a lot of things it's very important to speak about those things loudly. Lots of love for you ♡
thank you... this almost made me cry... I am afraid majority of the time but I know its necessary because I love Kpop that much so I wont let my fears stop me.
@@everglowup we need to have serious conversations when it comes to kpop because so many fans have this perfect image in their head about the artists but I don't see it when it comes to western artists. I'm going to support you as long as I'm going to take some kind of an active part in the kpop so community so I want you to know that you're doing good job. even if people disagree and can't accept that they're in the wrong, don't let it get to you. ily ♡
@@pastelmxchii this is actually the first time (I think) that I've ever expressed my opinion this specifically on the internet so I'm very happy that people agree with me :) have a good day!
You know what annoys me the most? When netizens attacked Hyuna for showing "too much body", but at the same moment, netizens praised male kpop idols with great bodies ( for example Kai, Jimin ), when they went shirtless for about 1 minute. And another story, when blackpink released their MV for "Lovesick Girls" netizens attacked Jennie, for wearing a nurse outfit and they said "Nurses don't look like that when they are working ; That's so disrespectful towards female nurses", etc. etc. But when BTS released their MV for "Dope" no one said anything, and netizens were "happy" to see them in uniforms. That's very strange. And no this is not me attacking the male idols, this is just to show how y'all are disrespecting women. This is coming from a fanboy
About nurse it was the female nurse who adress bcuz those outfits of nurse is being marketed as sexual I'm pornographic scenes and people who watch it have fetization of it. So it's different than a male doctor outfit from what I've heard
@@suckmetaehyung69 it really isn't, there is porn with male doctor's just as much... The only difference is that people sexualize everything women do and wear and because they are women they are "slutty" and "whores" but when a man wears a uniform everyone thinks they are so hot😒
@@TheSofkujepanen exactly the sexualization of women in those nurse outfit (and everything actually) made the women nurse organisation ask to take down that part. It's stupid but it's Korea we're talking about so
@@TheSofkujepanen it is very unfair, but in jennie’s case, it was during covid where all the nurses were stressed from work, and it was an actual nurse that came forward saying that she feels uncomfortable watching her occupation being portrayed as sexual during these tough times, and other nurses came forward as well. The hate was uncalled for, it’s crazy how fandoms turn on their idols so fast. In bts’s case, they were wearing uniforms but i guess it was used as ‘I work so hard while you waste yourself away, so I’m dope’ kind of roast to haters, so people didn’t question it much. I don’t think jennie deserved hate tbh, I agree with you, people sexualise women WAY too often and have normalised it, which is bad.
@@hazel6905 yeah but still Jennie wasn't overly sexual or sexual at all in that scene but yeat the people who complained sexualized her themselves and then blamed Jennie for it... I get that it was a nurse themselves but Jennie just truly was not sexual in that scene? It's the same case that always happens to women, others sexualize us and then blame us for it.
8:48 Just one thing here: not sharing misogynistic beliefs isn't enough. Men are quiet when their friends make rape jokes or manipulate a woman, but cry oppression when a woman says "all men are the same". When you're quiet when your friends do shite like that, be quiet when a woman says all men are the same. Because in that case, she's right.
You just spelled facts. Every woman knows another woman or has herself gone through sexual harassment or assault. But every men hasn't. So either you're hiding your friends or ignoring the signs. Even if you don't do it, you encourage it by not speaking up. So yes I will blame you too.
@@wannabeaworm9529 I think you meant "But every man knows another man that has disrespected a woman's boundaries" Thanks for your reply back. It's good to know not everyone is fooled by this.
If you think women don't do sexist things and don't side with women just because of their gender it would be a huge lie. Even after knowing the truth some women might side with their female friends even if she is falsely accusing a man for sexual harrasment/assault/domestic violence. All genders have bias. Just like you didn't point out the women who do that. You think women don't manipulate men and tell their friends about it. They never get called out, until they start doing it on people the women care about. Someone like Cardi B is celebrated like a huge female icon and rap icon when she openly said she drugged and robbed men and feels no remorse about it. What did the women do about it, except yas Queen and other bullshit. Hypocrites.
@@sayan7912 If you think men are targeted more than women, you're lying to yourself. Stop making everything about yourself. The fact that you're angry when women speak up about injustice, says a lot about you. It means you share the views of sexists and misogynists. And the opinion of those people doesn't matter.
@@wannabeaworm9529 Thats my narrative. I was basically told to be "grateful" and when i opened up about my traumas by men, men did nothing but made it about themselves and said how "its not a big deal" but love the idea of our fathers abusing us.
I actually think the industry (as well as fans) feel threatened by the popularity of girl groups and how they can overtake the popularity of boy groups. Keep in mind that ggs are a relatively a new thing in Korea as beforehand bgs ruled the day. You can kinda of credit Wonder Girls for slapping the public in the face and starting the gg boom, even if there were others before them, as they proved that women could sell just as well as men. And now ggs are gaining more and more popularity almost pushing the guys aside. I think people are upset about that, even within the companies that house the popular groups. I'm no BLINK by any stretch of the imagination, but even I think it's idiotic for YG to prioritize the goldfish when they have fucking sharks just waiting to do chomp. If YG is willing to lose out on guaranteed money just because of sexist ideals... well.... what more is there to say?
Nah, bb still sell more than gb. The only reason for that is the industry, most fans are girls and women and women are more social, por sentimental and created stronger bonds way easier. So, male groups are formed mostly by females and are super loyal cause they fall in love with this guys. So they'll support them more. Male fans aren't as loyal , a strong girl crush GG will attract men and women in big numbers. Many fans are multifandom
@@kant.68 what you are saying doesn’t take away the main point of the comment. There are more female fans of female groups compared to previous generations. Female groups are more acknowledged both domestically and universally.
I have heard it on dkdktv that girl groups are most cared about in Korea now. No one cares about boygroups in Korea apart from bts and some other bg apparently.
Female kpop fans and their internalized misogyny are the problem! As for all these male "feminist" idols, save your feminism, South Korea needs it more that we do. Stop using us for PR. Thanks 😘
female kpop fans are so toxic honestly they constantly give their male idol faves a pass for bigotry while acting downright HORRIBLE to female idols. i don't stan any boy groups so i can only speak from what i've seen from the outside of the community but the fact that some of these girls are letting men who don't even know they exist absolutely ROT their brains is sooo disappointing 🤧🤧 what happened to women supporting women, ya know?
No joke, I remember being on the verge of tears just thinking the things that us Women and girls have to go through, like we are such beautiful living people what did we do to deserve this?? ✨I love being a women and i would NOT trade it for anything else ✨ no matter the hardships
I’m Korean American. I don’t think most Western fans realize just how conservative and oppressive S. Korea is towards women and other minorities. Korea NEVER had liberation movements. In comparison, the United States has had several movements for racial equality, equality of sexualities, and gender equality. Korean media has stretched a shiny and bright glossamer over its antiquated and oppressive culture. I’m not surprised by the sexism in Kpop, but it seems like some fans have bought into the sexist culture in Kpop because it seems like such a “cool” and “modern” music genre.
Don’t worry korean racism and other shit is coming to surface and more and more people are getting tired of your bullshit… specially since most korean don’t want to do an effort to make the sligthtest change.
I think you’re right we don’t quite realize it we see South Korea as like what we are. When really they are behind us socially. Now I’m not saying that you should become loose like some people in the western society and have sex with everything out of the sun.. I’m not saying that it’s OK to be conservative. I am conservative compared to the western culture here in America.. I am not easy sexually, and I don’t have sex with everything under the sun, contrary to what the world thinks of us. But like you said we have had these liberation battles and the labor unions we’ve had all those battles where South Korea has not, and so the workforce is horrendous, and the view of women is lacking respect. I think South Korea has come along way. They have a long way to go still I think they’re on the right track.
I remember when the rumors that Jennie and GD dating came out, and people were shaming her because this was the second 'dating scandal' she has been in. And the sad thing is that it was international fans. But with Kai - nah its all good. (comparing his backlash to Jennies) Not only dating be none of our business (she is in her goddamn twenties) but why is it a problem if she has dates more than one guy? edit: its been a year guys. my preceptive has changed about jennie receiving more hate than GD and Kai. I know that GD was called a groomer when the rumors came out. Thank you.
You should see GD's Instagram, VIPS did a cleaning there, and like most of people who bashed Jennie are blonks, GD's fans are begging someone to date him because his dream was to be married and dad for now.
There are also some fans who think girl group stans force themselves to be girl group stans only because they want to be feminists, which is very misogynistic too, like I'm sorry but their concepts and music just appeals to us so much more and you gotta accept that.
This reminds me of video where namjoon, v, and jessi were on a show and a mother came onto the show and she started complaining about her daughter. Like how she wasn't married, how she doesn't have kids, and isn't a stay at home mom and says that's a perfect life for a woman. I remember having to exit the video and crying my eyes out to my mom about it because it reminded me of another misogynistic and homophobic video I had to watch for school. Look there is nothing wrong with being a house wife and stay at home mom if you want do ittt but saying that it is the dream and ideal for all women is wrong. I remember there were some people in the comments trying to defend it by saying it's asian culture. I don't have to tell anyone how stupid of an excuse that is. Sorry its just talks about this sexism and misogyny make me remember this stuff and I just wanted to share it
yeah i fucking hate when people excuse fucking everything with "cultural differences". No! racism, misogyny, homophobia isn't guarded by culture. Respectiing your follow human beings is more important. You can tell it'd be the same idiots who a couple of centuries ago would be defending slavery too with the same bullshit excuse. Like what, should we have let the holocaust happen because that was just german culture at the time???? there is nothing dumber to me than tradition or doing things just cause that's how everyone does them. think for yourself instead of being a sheep. If it causes unnecessary harm to others then stop. that's called having a brain and not being a dick.
this is so refreshing, and every word you said is so true. people need to realize that this is a real issue. ive literally seen someone say “jennie dates too much” like um… didn’t she have one boyfriend? and besides that, her dating life is none of our business. there’s obviously tons more examples, but i’ve been waiting for someone to talk about this in depth for soooo long, and im so glad someone finally did and also did an amazing job at it
@@brennathecatlover4360 this is why he's my least favorite member now imagine if he was a girl and if those other female idols he dated were male idols
@@fatimahanwaar306 omg u sound so stupid lmao him being your least fav member cuz he dated 2 people not even at the same time. Kai could care less if u don’t like him dating lmao
U do know there’s articles saying victims said he had no involvement right. And it’s obvious he was only dragged into the scandal despite multiple people saying he had no involvement. No one cares about the scandal they just wanna bring him down. Victims said he had no involvement, also they said police lied/ changed statements, wasn’t in any gc just a business one, and wasn’t the owner of the club only dj and director I believe. U can look it up if u don’t believe me. And if he did know what was going on there’s no way he would’ve been able to come forward cuz 1. No one would believe him because he was dragged into the scandal 2. There were a lot more powerful people actually involved and I’m sure police were too. He doesn’t deserve jail over the media thinking he’s guilty even tho there’s no even of him being involved. That’s why vips and bb are ot5 cuz we know seungri has no involvement and was dragged cuz of media influence. U really should worry about jonghoon and jjy cuz they actually did stuff
@@brennathecatlover4360 being the director is a big enough post for him to know what actually goes on in building. If he really is innocent why did he never try to reveal anything and just turned away from the victims? Even if he wasn't directly using them for prostitution, if he knew about it but looked the other way just for profit or whatever reason than that already proves he deserves punishment. Plus do you actually think it is possible to sentence someone to jail just cuz media claims its them? You say not to trust what the media says and then tell me to search on the internet (WHICH IS LITERALLY ALL MEDIA ARTICLES). How do you know the victims said he had no involvement? Do you live in Korea? Have you actually met a victim? Cuz if the answers are no then let you remind you that it is just as easy (if not even easier) to falsely claim the victims said he wasn't involved. You aren't a fucking cop, you don't have access to as much evidence as they do.
@@an____ka u honestly think people would listen to him if he said what was going on like come on now he never got the chance to defend himself. Then explain all the innocent people in jail cuz according to u only guilty people go to jail.
@@an____ka and you’re not a cop either so u don’t actually know if he was involved or not. I didn’t say “don’t trust the media” I said people were influenced by the media to call him a monster did that’s what everyone was crying about but didn’t think to look for stuff that can be used for his favor. And it’s easy to say victims said he was involved lol u do know people are pressured into giving confessions right. U obviously don’t look at both sides and look up stuff to see he may be innocent. U only believe the negative stuff but when it’s positive u think it’s a lie. Tell that to all the innocent people in jail cuz the court just “thought they were guilty” u believe the media when they say he’s guilty but when there’s something in his favor u call it bs
@@an____ka lol then u should be in seungris shoes having the entire world turn on u let’s see how it would go if u tried to say what was happening cuz it won’t go well. And you’re assuming he knew what was happening when people are very good at hiding stuff
great video as always, thought i'd share that i saw the other day a survey done in south korea that interviewed young korean men (aged 20-34) on their opinions about women's rights. the results were that: 53% say that the gender pay gap is fair 47% say that not hiring a woman for being a feminist is fair 40% think there shouldn't be any anti-discrimination laws
the most heartbreaking thing i see is in good girl (Mnet show) when sleeq (korean underground artist) do a feminist and lgbt+ chorus stage and a girl group member went like "i don't really understand why she perform that, i don't get the message" i was so shock
The way fans still hate on girl idols that have actually apologized for their problematic actions like Lisa and Giselle a rookie that was able to apologize quickly for her actions, but are quick to forget male idols that have never apologized is beyond me
When you mentioned misogyny among young S.Korean men in their 20s, it made me sad to remember that it’s also very present in older S.Korean men as well. I remember growing up in a Korean community where the majority of married men never even took a step into the kitchen their whole lives even in their 40s and 50s, and this was seen as normal and ok. I feel while young Korean women have grown up to be with the times and broken free of past oppressive mindsets compared to their mothers and grandmothers, young S.Korean men have doubled down to become more hateful towards women and feminism in light of a modernizing world, because they think anything that shakes up the status quo is “oppression” for them.
Have those women who come from one income family stepped out to real world and brought money into house? You don't know the fear of going to work not knowing if you will be fired that day, and have the burden of carrying family. You don't know how it is to be harassed at work, coming home to rest with wife not bitching at them. Biggest lie feminism has told is you can do it all. Being a housewife is MUCH easier than bringing in dough for family. Is it oppression for men because they had to do all the heavy lifting for family? Oppression does not equal to submission. Women do want to submit and want men who can provide and protect. Ask yourself why women like tall, muscular guys, and why they chase after bad men, nice guy finishing last. Women are hypergamous. Rich girl will want to date rich guy, and rich guy will want to date fit girl. They can't call gender equality when they don't want responsibility of men. Also, modern men do a lot more housework than previous generation, even from one incoms family. That's why men don't want to marry because there is too much is expected.
@@incognitoparty oh my god please shut the fuck up. you are so delusional it is absolutely ridiculous. men can be stay at home as well, but y’all just wanna fucking put the pin on women as per. this level of delusion and ignorance is appalling
@@incognitoparty why would a rich woman want a rich man 💀 there would be no need. your entire argument makes zero sense and is just based off of stereotypes and deluded generalizations
BTW, this should be a mandatory watch for every Kpop fan. You are the smartest and best educated Kpop RU-vidr out there. The way you research topics and then express your thoughts keeps me coming back to your channel, even if I don't agree with you on everything. Keep doing what you're doing.
Ugh the dating thing got me, how is jennie called a slut for dating but nobody say a word about male idols that dated?? Dating is normal for both genders but only woman get bashed
@@mmmm-vs5zh They did but defenitely not as much as Jennie, ++ I can understand the hate Heechul got (although I won't justify any not am I taking sides) because of the huge age gap + his controveraial past (I heard that he said his ideal type was a 15 year old girl when he was like 24)
Humanity can get scary, but dedication is still in there. K-pop isn't the greatest example of feminism. However, if there's someone who wants to listen and support start a conservation. It can go a long way, ridiculous or not.
I would say that in western standards BTS is far from being feminist. But if we try to view them on the Korean scale of feminism they are. As you've said, misogyny is ingraved into Korean's minds. So the fact alone that BTS are at least somewhat concious about it and at least try to avoid writing misogynystic lyrics now (for example, how they changed from Boy in Luv to Boy With Luv) is admirable and I think it's because they were lifted to success by an international audience, so they are influenced about our way of thinking a lot more. But at the same time, I feel like with the their level of fame and influence they could be advocating for feminism a little bit more, because most groups don't have the privilage to say something that would anger their Korean audience, while they do, because they are most likely the least reliant on Korean fans. But they definitely don't have to. I don't think just because a group is known to have deep and socially critical lyrics that they have to touch on every issue. As long as they don't write misogynystic lyrics again, I don't think they need to write feminist lyrics. It's just as you've said, they shouldn't be given credit for something they don't do.
Besides tbh i think if bts talks about feminism most people will be like "oh now you are giving them attention bc they are mEN" or "feminism is only for women shut up" so no matter what they do people will never be satisfied
what is the difference between naming the song "boy in luv" vs. "boy with luv" literally what does that achieve how does it improve the conditions of women in korea
Tbf I always felt like boy in luv WAS supposed to be a misogynistic song cuz that whole album is about young adults and love. every single person in that age group whom I've come across is misogynistic asf knowingly or unknowingly. And I really feel like boy with love is like the next version of boy in luv?? Like the teen boys grew up to mature and understand. Cuz the album's in between them had a lot of relationship and mental health related things which just kinda adds up to the narrative. Again, it's just my opinion
"you don't take care of your body" sir u know that I have a lot of thing to worry about, like high school, do the laundry and other cores. We eat normally, why I should "take care" of my body for your pleasure?
I admire you. And i also have bottomless admiration for the women and girls of kpop and dramas. I also have the utmost respect for women who have to live with the lack of respect and support in their daily living. Thank you for everything.
I don't know if you think this is worth making a video about but the amount of KPop stans who think SK is some magical, safe haven, paradise; disturbs me. The amount of times I've seen fans call out problematic behavior, problematic views, problematic situations in SK and they get threatened or called every name in the book is ridiculous. And you would think as international fans, they would have a better understanding but nope. SK has its secrets and a sea of f'ed up individuals just like any other country. But they cling to the fantasy of KPop and Kdramas and think all Korean men are these pure, innocent, and kind souls who are respectful and does nothing wrong and praise foreign girls who are dating Korean men and asking them how to get a Korean guy to notice them and they want to learn Korean so they can go to SK and "learn about the culture." It was always crazy how people paint SK but it seems like its getting worse which should be the opposite because of all the things that have been exposed that bursts that seemingly perfect bubble.
The 50 kg rule. Most female idols don‘t have their period. Most female idols probably have anemia. Most female idols will in the future suffer from osteoporosis. Those who are not naturally skinny like Rosé and Lisa from bp are screwed when it comes to their health. Let‘s not pretend otherwise. What else really bothers me is that Jennie and Jisoo are constantly forced to wear high heels with every performance. I think, I‘ve never seen Jennie wear sneakers more than twice and I‘ve never seen Jisoo wear them. It‘s like women can only come in one size. Jimin doesn‘t need to wear high heels to be as tall as Namjoon. It doesn‘t disrupt their performance when they are men because SK understands that men are individuals. But when Jennie hurt her ankle, it was high heels every performance. Also, I‘ve recently watched a video about the top 100 most viewed fancams and most gg fancams were the male gaze supreme. In some of them, the camera focus was on the woman‘s butt, in some on her legs. In almost every single one of them, skirts and shorts were as short as underwear. You could see Momoland‘s Nancy look extremely uncomfortable 12 times that video. The contrast to the bg fancams was ridiculous.
This channel i swear to god ... its not just a kpop channel , its also an educational channel. Everytime i learn so much from this and i change my views (for good). Keep up the good work.👍👍
This is very well-researched, well-reasoned and entertaining. I love your channel because you go into a lot of detail and express yourself in a way that's clear and riveting. Also, a random thought: about Somi being seen as "arrogant and spoilt" because her debut song had "bratty" lyrics: I wonder if it's partly because she's mixed-race and linked to stereotypes about Westerners being arrogant and spoilt.
This video was so good and addressed so many internalized issues. I am an Asian and us being 'conservative' also means that we don't speak up and speak out a lot about these things. It seems that misogynists made use of that to silence women, too. My grandmother had to deal with her terrible husband until his pa*sing - threatening to leave the family, to sell the house (so that she has no roof over her head, along with my aunt and my uncle but both suffer from health issues) to leave for a woman he liked along with her daughter (the details I am not too sure). The fact that she had helped him through so much in his life until the day that he had pas*ed.... boys truly don't deserve women. I will be educating myself more about these issues and calling them out in my own family. Thank you for these videos! They really open my eyes and remind me about how.. disgusting this world truly is.
"72.5% of males in their 20s voted conservative"..... well not even 10 minutes in and i feel like throwing myself in front of a bus. This is insane and so soo concerning. I´m seeing a lot of conservative younger ppl where im from too so it s just terrifying that the world is moving in that direction.
Hey there! This comment was 10 months ago, so I hope you're doing well. It might make you feel better that not all conservatives believe that women should only be in the kitchen, that they shouldn't work, etc. I watch a political commentary channel where the host is a conservative, but she fully supports the idea of women in the workforce and making their own money. She is very opinionated on the woke ideology, so I can understand how some people will be upset with her. She seems to the type that in her day to day life, she will be civil to people regardless of their beliefs (I don't know her personally, so I can't say for sure). There are quite a few conservative channels actually, that are fine with women in the workforce and being independant, not having their value be defined by men, etc. I've also seen conservatives who are tired of the double standard that it's okay for men to date and sleep around a lot, while the women can't, so we may have a bit more in common with them than we think. If the conservatives in your country are the type to support this disgusting double standard and the notion that women should only be housewives, then that is truly sad. However, not all conservatives are this radical, and are okay with progressiveness; they just tend to be more hesitant about it. We don't have to agree with each other's views, but I don't believe that fearing the opposition's ideas is the answer. At the end of the day, we all want this world to be a better, we just believe in different paths to get there. Respect is key imo, even if we disagree. Now, please note that this is not a hate comment at all! I'm sure you're very respectful, and the purpose of this comment was to hooefully lessen your fear of what conservatives have to say, 'cause plenty of them are more progressive than you may know. Sending you wishes for good health and happiness! 🤍
Every single thing you said were facts. I have literally been saying how misogynistic kpop stans and idols can be. I even used the mamamoo example. Thank you sm for making this video and calling out the kpop community ❤️
I'm just glad that RM addressed his misogyny directly in the special envoys interview that released a few hours ago. I hope people can take him as an example of changing and reflecting for the better.
because of C.A.P's sexist "joke" this is why I worry about male idols raising their daughters in the future but fans use the excuse of "that's what typical protective fathers would say" to defend this behavior which is disgusting and wrong
this is why male idols are the definition of "cute on the outside ugly on the inside" the fact that so many fangirls fantasize about dating a "cute male K-Pop idol" without realizing that male idols are misogynistic and brushing their sexist comments off as a "joke" shows how shallow minded they are
The audacity of Shindong telling a girl to lose weight and questioning why she can’t manage her weight is laughable. He’s been yo-yo dieting for years and SM made excuses for him, and let it slide. He was then praised when he lost weight after years of being overweight. Yet the same company fat shamed Wendy in her rookie days and monitored her eating habits. That led Wendy to go to dangerous lengths to lose weight, eating only cabbage and pumpkin juice as meals and jumping rope 10,000 times. She received no praise for her weight loss, articles only mentioned how she “finally” was able to control her weight. 🤦🏽♀️ If you’re going to hold your idols to a certain beauty standard, make sure you apply the same rules to both your female and male idols.
These dangerous diets scare the crap out of me ngl. I seriously wish they would stop, and how can this industry keep getting away with this sort of treatment to the idols?!
I agree with almost everything you said.I have been trying to voice out my grievances but never knew how to word them.This is soo perfect.Thank you!!🖤🖤
For the kpop side, let be honest the most vocal about how women needs to act, wear are women, the ones slut shaming "huyna" Per example are women. We are the ones getting mad because we feel like other women are giving bad impression about us and make us look easy in the men's eyes, we are the one body shaming. The ones sexualizing and over praising men are also women, we want the men to be sexy " Show your biceps, six packs, be handsome". Things are changing now but in the early kpop wave the only GG who made it were the ones with many fanboy they called them " Adjushi " Women didn't care about GG no matter what their concept is, they supported boy group because they are cute " Fragile looking ", hot, and called GG boring. We should be balanced on what we are fighting for.
I couldn't understand why I don't like boy groups and male idols until I watched this video, I especially despise misogynists so I guess my gut can just feel them lol. Keep up the good work, your content is highly educational and always very enjoyable!
@@armyshope I know nothing about that guy lol i don't know anything about boy groups. My comment was mostly meant as a joke but haven't we learned not to trust the image they try to sell us by now? I'm not insinuating anything, but you don't know him either, just as I don't know my favorite girl group🤷
@@armyshope the group itself has a record of sexist remarks. When asked about ideal woman, J-Hope, yet another member, answered that his ideal type was someone who is good at naejo “domestic support” which refers to doing various household chores that a stay-at-home wife performs to support her husband’s career. Which is an indicator that he values traditional gender norms. Traditional gender norms aren’t inherently bad as long as a person wants to actively participate, however gender norms have been actively hurting women for centuries and because of them a lot of women have been discriminated and held from getting a higher paid job, because traditionally a woman’s place is to be a caretaker. Especially in South Korea who has the largest gender wage gap of all OECD members. Sources: koreaexpose, koreaherald
I agree with everything and don’t get me started with some army’s I literally saw a comment saying what Jennie going to do when we take the word female from her achievements the funny thing that comment was a from another woman like tf?
"im gonna raise my son amazing but if my daughter dares to even breathe the wrong way im gonna beat her" W H A T IN THE MISOGYNISTIC ABUSIVE MESS IS THIS ???
I just remembered the whole Karina , dj and the politician's son incident . It was so bad when I read about it first that I felt like crying. Like how the hell are you raising your child and what kind of person is he ?? That was so disgusting that , tbh I hope that boy just disappeared . Not even kidding .
I was really quite angry when I read the comments on Jennie Kim's Instagram and saw how many people were calling her a cheap Instagram model or calling her promiscuous. Not to mention the amount of crap that Lisa got for doing a caberet performance and Crazy Horse. I struggle to understand what truly evil thing these young women have done short of being passionate and proud of their job and craft.
I'm can't wait to finish this video (: I'm honestly so impressed by this video. It's informative and also emotional while only talking about important points. Truly an amazing video. God Bless as well girl ❤️
I agree that some stuff Oh my Girl has done has definitely been 10 times worsened due to misogyny , but they deserve the backlash. I as an Indian, after checking out non-stop I wanted to stan them, but after mocking my country and my religion I was absolutely disgusted. Don't get me wrong, if it was a boy-group, I would have held them accountable too. This was such a wonderful video!! It's informative and creative, keep up these kind of videos cuz everyone needs to see it.
as an Australian woman, as soon as you said Julia Gillard I was immediately like I WILL NOT BE LECTURED ABOUT MYSOGYNY BY THIS MAN! I WILL NOT. absolutely iconic, fucking legend
24:06 One small correction on Pledis: NU'EST's sales tanked in 2016, one year before Pristin debuted. After Canvas in August 2016 (which only sold 6000 copies), they had no activities. Meanwhile, all the Pristin girls were either in IOI or doing weekly shows to drum up buzz. In March 2017, Pristin debuted and did okay (40,000), but at least outsold NU'EST. One month later, NU'EST were on Produce 101 in a last ditch effort to save their careers. In August 2017, Pristin had their first comeback and sales dropped but were above 20,000. Then, in October, NU'EST came back as NU'EST W, sold 300,000 copies, and got their first music show win. Notice how it was then that Pristin began to be put on the back burner. Yes, it was stupid of Pledis to not give Pristin more time to grow (maybe capitalize off of Kyulkyung's Chinese fanbase), but the argument that male privilege was the only thing keeping NU'EST around isn't entirely accurate. It was clear that in early 2017, Pledis were ready to drop them. They only stuck around because Produce 101 blew up their sales.
I agree with you about bts (I'm a ARMY). I hate when fans give idols titles like 'feminist' or 'ally' simply bc they hold a flag or donated money but don't talk about those issues. U can understand that it's a marketing move to get more money and attract followers (bc most of people who listen to Kpop are LGBTQ+ and people of color). And they make companys make idols queerbait to attract more people and money. Honestly it's very annoying as person who is part of LGBTQ+. (Sorry for any mistakes. English is not my first language.)
It’s actually quite disturbing when you think about what these companies are using their idols to do. It’s all marketing and a way to manipulate the fandom into spending money. What scares me is how many of these fans refuse to believe this and will viciously attack anyone that says something like this. These idols and their companies are not as woke as the fans think they are. And don’t even get me started on shipping and qu**rbaiting. It’s so toxic.
@Sanskriti There aren't too many instances of blantant queerbaiting in K-pop that I can think of off the top of my head, but Siwon from Super Junior was called out a couple of years ago for retweeting these homophobic tweets made by a preacher on his Twitter acc all the while being known as one of the members in Super Junior who did heavy fanservice with other Suju members. Another instance is when Irene told a fangirl who jokingly asked her if she could marry her that "marriage is between a man and a woman only" or something along those lines, but the fandom paints her out to be this man-hating, feminist who's dating Seulgi and I know she's a woman and the video isn't discussing women, but still.
@@Smr8115 Exactly. Whenever i state how fans who join the queerbaiting and ship idols make it much harder for idols to come out,they always downvote me and state how thats untrue. Which i disagree a lot with. I mean, when you are a woman or lgbtqia or non white person or mentally ill person in this society and then others proceed to discriminate you but then at the same breath they use your problems that they cause for money, it will make you feel more vulnerable and it will be harder for you to express yourself in society.
As always, 100/10 (that wasn’t a typo for once lol)! I love how you went into every aspect so thoroughly and weren’t afraid to just tell us all what’s up! There need to be more people who can see things from a more objective viewpoint. Keep up the great work! ❤️
12:18 In my country it was 2006 when domestic violence was made illegal and plus if you get SA by your husband, the court won't punish him, well this is India :((
Ikrrr like I'm an army too, but I hate it when they all call bts "feminists" like do they even know the meaning of that word, respecting women and being a feminist r totally different things.. Sure they do respect woman in a normal way and I dont see them in a bad limelight at all, but I was totally disappointed when they gave all these speeches at UN and all that, but didnt speak a word when Jennie was being bullied by armys when V followed her, didn't say a word when female idols were called names because they were with them, I'll defo not call this being feminist but being scared of kpopppiess, not blaming them cause I'm sure those speeches r just tactics by the company, nothing else!
This is a really amazing video. You know I've noticed that male idols are sometimes very demeaning to female fans saying very snarky comments or they're told to shut up if they scream too much and it's taken as a joke and stuff. But at the same time if there's a woman who rolls her eyes, has a particular expression on stage, is in a relationship with someone that becomes public knowledge, the amount of backlash she receives is just horrible. Pathetic. And I agree with you. We have BTS supporting feminism in speeches but do they know what it means, really. Or is it just to promote their own group and earn money for their companies? I love BTS but there are some things that I do find kinda problematic.
Ok, Just wanna throw a question out there, in the UK, not sure about else where, do you think the reason why nurses have such a low pay is because it is a female dominated job, even thought they are at the fore front in dealing with sick patients? 🤔
Hiiiiiii, I’m also British and that is 100% the reason. The government basically purposely simplified and payed these roles less because they were largely taken up by women. If you watch some older parliament clips the blatant misogyny in some of these men (some STILL ELECTED) is actually disgusting. You know it’s bad when the only (elected therefore valid) female prime minister was literally a pick me before her time
You see it in other things, like payment in the BBC or pay rises in different public sectors, the UK is unbelievably backwards in basically every capacity when you start to squint
While Shindong really could have chosen better words, I think he actually pointed out exactly the misogyny that he was accused of: if an idol wants to survive in the industry, as a woman they sadly HAVE to work hard on being super slim, while male idols (him as the example) have much more freedom before the public strikes
100% Female idols even mutter "feminism" and they'll get ruthlessly dragged online, maybe even lose their careers. But male idols are given second, third, fourth, infinite chances, and have to do something as bad as literally relegating an entire half of the population as mere servants to even be called out. And even then, they're able to bounce back and still have fulfilling careers
6:14 when you said this a perfect example came to my mind, though it isn't related to kpop but i still wanna share it. I live in Finland which is a country in northern Europe and recently we had the world's yougest prime minister who was also a female and the hate she got for stupid things was so unbeliable. For context, here prime minister has politically more power than the president and through Finland is considered one of the most gender equal countries in the world misogynism still heavily exists here too. She did some things wrong, I won't deny it, but I think that she still tried her best yet it felt like there was every week a scandal because she had done something 'terrible'. Also, there was this one time when she had worn normal leggings out and it was't for work but someone had taken pics of her and put it online. And people said that she was showing too much while we once had this male prime minister who posted a pic in swimming shorts and he was not criticized at all. This all shows that there's still so much misogynism everywhere in the world.
Slightly not relevant but someone was like oooh look this idol is wearing safety pins, they're so supportive and I was labelled a hater for saying that it was probably just their styling
Few days ago I saw an army tweet that has like more than 30k likes saying we have to thank bts because they respect women like wtf are you kidding respecting women became something rare that you respect men for doing it and the problem is the person who tweeted this was a woman herself
I see a lot or speech but no action. We can say for millions for year but problems will be still there . Avoidance is not the key to resolving a problem. One thing I believe is even they are huge doesn't means we will keep our mouth shut for life. We may be small but bacteria is also small but they can decay a huge host.
Why does this have so little views? Why are always the most important topics flying under the radar? People just don’t want to have nuanced conversations and see topics like this as bashing the artists but calling out someone for their problematic behavior does not mean that said artist is a horrible person entirely. That’s NOT how people are. As much as we love to vilify people because they do one thing wrong, that is just not the truth. One can be a good person and do something bad because their environment, society, family, friends fed that idea to them, idea that they might not even SEE the problem with. This is why I believe you cannot negatively judge someone that does something bad if they don’t know they are doing it. That does not mean you don’t call them out, but making them a villain if they don’t even know they are operating out of evil is not okay. Believe it or not, these men are also victims of the same system. They operate out of what they KNOW and is given to them by centuries. That is why feminism is for both women and men so both can break free and treat each other equally. I really love your videos, and I love to see people like you that are open to conversation and understanding the nuances within these topics, the world is NOT black and white. It is gray. That is why I always say, in life we are ALL both victims and perpetrators of evil. That is why I believe Jesus said love even your enemy as you love yourself, because we’re all struggling here and your ‘enemy’ is not really your enemy, but your reflection. If we choose to help and educate we can have a better world, if we just choose to bash and cancel we are just creating a divided world. Thank you for the video! 🖤🥺
This was honestly one of the best videos I've ever watched. It was so well researched and I couldn'd agree more with what you said about misogyny and sexism in the kpop world and south korea in general. Finally I found someone who understands the whole issue and is actually speaking up against those who are constantly worshipping idols and labeling them "feminists" just because they do the bare minium. Thank you so much for informing people on these important subjects.
I don't understand how armys claim that BTS have grown or changed? Just because they gave some speech that was written by someone else and RM just read it out?
Kpop fans should really need to look further in it especially the dark sides because they just throw this to the point that it become useless and overused.
THIS. It has always frustrated me that idols doing less than the bare minimum receives such accolade from fans. On a tangential note, one of my pet peeves is when fans call idols LGBT allies if they wear rainbow or pride collection clothing. 1) Some idols/stylists only buy from pride collections because they think the clothes/accessories look cool and the designs are limited edition. 2) Even if they bought them because they are symbols of pride or the LGBT community, that's not proof of tolerance, much less active allyship. That's without even discussing the commodification of Pride by corporations that pocket the majority of the profits and aren't "allies" the other 11 months of the year.
I feel like the meaning of feminism is being misconstrued. From my understanding, it's for equality where a man will only be chosen over a women because he is more qualified for whatever position and vice versa. SK men and many other men think we want to overthrow them when many of us just want equality, I think this is the only thing that gives some men superiority like "we are better which is why we are on top" so since feminism is threatening that they get angry because to be honest they have nothing else going for them.
Thank you for all your kpop wake up call videos. before i started watching your videos i used to think kpop was a universe which was all rainbows and sunshine but your videos made me realise that i and many others are just DUMB. I now view things differently and criticize my faves and ults. So thank you
When i got into kpop as a teen, i was obsessed with idols. I wanted to be like them, would binge watch the videos, interviews,etc. My sister, who was older and way more sensible, sat me down and said "There is a reason most of them aren't married or give out a single vibe. It's pure marketing. They are men at the end of the day, raised in a society that is extremely patriarchal and misogynist. What they say and what they do are two very different things. The man can say he likes a certain type of girl, but if he actually meets someone like that, he won't even look at her. So chill." After that, i just learned to enjoy the music.
This is a really interesting video! While I don’t think women can be misogynistic because it will never have the same negative impact as it does when a man is a misogynist, you’ve really shown how deeply rooted misogyny is in this video with really important historical and cultural context. I’d like to add that the fetishization of Asian women played a big part in its rise internationally. Chinese women in particular are oppressed even by other East/South East Asian countries and treated like lower class citizens.
Imo, women can also be misogynistic, as misogyny is simply hatred and prejudice against women. Just because it's not as effective, or just because women can't be misogynistic on an institutional level, doesn't mean they can't be misogynistic at all. For example, I can still help fight climate change by riding a bike instead of using a car. Is it going to be as effective as a company coming up with energy solutions that use renewable energy sources and introducing them to the market? Of course not. However, that doesn't change that me riding my bike is an effort to fight climate change.
@@YTMidnightPlayzz I was not attempting to say that women aren’t misogynist or that even though a woman exhibits a misogynistic attitude that it doesn’t leave an impact. I apologize for that and just wanted to add much needed nuance into the discussion as these issues are intersectional. There’s actually a term for when women specifically exhibit misogynistic behavior: “internalized misogyny”. In fact more often than not oppressed people exhibit these behaviors because they internalize what they’re surrounded by and a person’s environment can be affected by multiple factors. Location, culture, gender, race, ethnicity, etc. That was all I was attempting to bring into the conversation.
@ilikecookies89 that isn't a very good comparison. We are talking about an oppressed group having INTERNALIZED hatred and prejudice. It can never be the same as the OPPRESSOR groups hatred as they've been the ones benefitting from that groups oppression and hold actual power in the system. A good example would be white people's racism towards black people vs black people's internalized racism towards their own community.
People who watch kdramas and listen to kpop need to pay attention to what is being shown to us. The dark side of SK is right there if you look carefully, especially in kdramas they might be works of fiction but they are definitely taking from reality. Sadly people only fantasise about what they want. I would love to visit SK one day but never would I say I would like to live there. No offense to South Koreans but what's been normalised, internalised and practised are things I've not have to deal with and don't intend to
I'm sorry, Cheryl, but your analysis here is deeply culturally imperialistic-unintentionally so, I'm inclined to believe. What about the centrality of Confucianism in Korea? It's comparable to the centrality of Islam in some SE Asian nations. And yes, I know Confucianism isn't a religion (I'm Korean-American; I know Confucianism)-but they're both deeply ingrained and broadly honored value systems in their respective societies that up to the present deeply inform social structures, including those related to the sexes. Would you criticize the Malaysian or Indonesian pop industries (or really any industry effected locally) the same way, and impliedly demand change in those societies as a whole, despite the foundations of male dominance lying in millennia-old, now indigenous cornerstones of those societies (Islam as adopted and developed locally) - as it is the case with regard to Confucianism in Korea? If not, why not? What makes Korea's Confucian society a fair target for critical analysis and implied demands for change by outsiders wielding analytical frameworks largely developed in the West?
As a male, it hurts me just by thinking that a concept of misogyny and exists. My friends are mostly female and they’re one of the most intelligent, smartest and welcoming people I’ve ever met in my life. You know our society is messed up if u get belittled based on something yiu have no control over. Extreme feminisim is also bad. It’s just like misogyny but vice versa, so basically misandry. Moreover, these „feminists” claim to be superior, when in actuality they are on the same level if not sometimes worse than misoginits. I know this is obvious but like I hate these concepts. Have nice day boys and girls!
Thank you! Imo, extreme beliefs of any kind are really harmful. Like, can we not take the middle ground? Why to we all have to be so radical? Gosh, if only I could like this comment 10 times!
@@everglowup 2013 bts was a misogynistic racist mess. and i can't fault them bcs they were ignorant, they grew up as Males in freaking South Korea. BUT they learned and changed for the better. i just wish ARMY would extend the energy when talking about girl groups. they be attacking gg for past mistakes that the girls have apologized and learned from, yet God forbid if somebody brings up BTS's mess from their early day.
@@felix-xd4mx “god forbid if somebody brings up BTS’s mess from their early day” THEY ALREADY DO💀💀 lmao everyone and their mama brings up bts past everyday ! it’s not like kpop stans don’t do the exact same thing that armys do when someone brings up what their faves did, it’s not fair to single out armys.
