Mixing with Subgroups on the Behringer X32 - Behringer X32 Subgroups 

You're welcome! Thanks so much for watching!

Sure thing!

I'm so glad!

Second this

I believe that’s the Midas SD card (which is also compatible with the X32). It replaces the USB card (although the SD card also have USB), and allows 32-channel multitrack recording directly on the console.

Hi, I did everything like in the video and it worked, however after adding some effects like EQ to the vocal subgroup now I can’t mute the subgroup, the vocals still have volume even if I mute the subgroup. Thanks for the help I can get on this.

Proceed as usual with your routine. But myself, honestly im done with subs on Aux, moved onto to matrix sends and i honestly love it.

I just got an X32 Rack and an SD8 stage box for the first time and have been exploring this. What I've found is that f I connect AES50 A from the X32 to AES50 A on the SD8, and then set the switch on the side of the SD8 to the "9-16" position, the default routing seems to already be set up so that Mix Buses 9-16 become the sources of the 8 physical XLR output jacks on the SD8. Mix Bus 9 becomes the signal source for "OUT 1" on the SD8. Mix Bus 10 becomes the signal source for "OUT 2", and so on. So now between the X32 and SD8, I have 16 physical outputs that correspond to Mix Buses 1-16.

Yes, you should search the video “Dave rat live mixing strategy” it is similar to this but adds in DCAs to control your groups and all your inputs to control the entire mix from a broader perspective.

​@@Ben_O3149another great video on using sub groups!👍 I am a bit confused though about the all channels section? Does he mean sending all the individual channels to a dca? Would they then also be going to mains LR?

@@markq23 All his channels go to subgroups like this video mentions not directly to LR. However he has a DCA that controls all the inputs BEFORE the subgroups and then a DCA to control all the subgroups. So he can push the all inputs DCA up while simultaneously pulling the all groups DCA down to feed the subgroup compression harder while maintaining the same overall volume. You could do the opposite for less subgroup compression. It’s perfect for different songs that have different energy levels. Definitely watch his video a couple times it’s great.

@@Ben_O3149 thanks for help😊👍

Have the same board and same questions

DCA IS JUST VOLUME CONTROL, THERE IS NO DINAMICS , IT IS JUST LIKE TAKNG THE FADERS OF EVERY CHANNEL ASSIGNED TO THAT DCA EITHER DOWN. OR UP…ONLY THAT, YOU CAN’T ADD COMPRESSION, GATE OR EVEN EQ.

You cant compress or eq a DCA.

I only use DCAs for mixing my FX these days.

Drums! You must compress all together, for a better groove. If cymbals pumps, try a low ratio or limit the gain reduction with the range option. You need a low treshold

I would agree with @lucianogm, drums would be one option. A drum group and a parallel drum group which i'll have a video coming out soon for. The other option would be a band group and a vocal group. I would have a hard time deciding between those two options.

@@DrewBrashler Thanks! I’m going to try it on the drums first and will let y’all know how it goes. Can’t wait to see your video about using the parallel drum group. I want to try that out.

@@DrewBrashler the subgroups worked great last Sunday. I got some compliments on how good the drums sounded. Should the subgroup include the drum effects too? Thanks

This is a question I also have. Perhaps there is a different expansion card - one that would provide two USB ports - so one could be used for recording and the other for SuperRack Performer - AND two laptops or computers likely also - though maybe recording is not CPU intensive, so both possible at the same time.

Yes, I will use channel compression to keep the channel dynamics controlled, and then use the Subgroup compression to keep the subgroups dynamics controlled.

Yes I do! I find that using the DCA's while mixing is the easiest to actively mix on and the subgroups are more in the background of my mix doing a lot of the work. If I am mixing with DCA's and Subgroups, I'll typically assign the subgroups to the DCA's rather than the channels to the DCA's. That way when I'm mixing with the DCA's it is affecting the master level of those subgroups.

Thanks

DCA is "digitally controlled amplifier", and basically all it does is remotely control whatever channels you have assigned to it, by adding a trim cut or boost to each channel. So no signal goes "through" the DCA, it simply changes the amount of signal going through each channel assigned to it, moving up or down from wherever the channel fader is. I can set a DCA up for instance that controls all the vocal mics, and another one for all the band instruments, so once I mix the vocals and the band, I can adjust the entire vocal mix up or down in relation to the band mix. I can also mute the entire group of channels from the DCA controls. A Subgroup on the other hand has signal routed THROUGH it, and controls the summed levels of all the signals sent to it, so you can use it to send a separate mix to monitors or a Broadcast feed etc. On an analog board it would be closest to an Aux buss send, as you can separately set how much signal comes from each channel into the Subgroup, either pre fade or post fade (or other options lol). I use subs to send signals to monitors, broadcast, etc, but I also use them to create a Vocal and a Band subgroup (instead of using a DCA), and then I can compress and add FX to the subgroup, which is then routed to the Mains. I am using a subgroup instead of a DCA specifically so I can easily compress and FX each group. Subgroups are also used to feed the first 4 Sidechain FX slots. The Matrix is basically a way to internally route signals, to get between various sections, or be able to add eq or compression to a signal in a different way. It's basically a 6 lane buss that various sections can put signal into or take signal out of. Aux out is I believe 1/4 inch balanced output, and I think it might be limited to stereo pairs or something like that? Or maybe it's limited processing capabilities. It's like for a record send or running foyer speakers or whatever. LCR is just the main outputs, with LR being standard stereo, Center generally being LR summed together, but you can also set it up so some things only go to LR and others only go to Center, think of a system with a Center Cluster, and then LR speakers, you might put the sermon mostly or entirely on the center cluster, but have music come from the sides, and a live band with instruments spread across all 3 to get a good dispersion. I think there is also a Mono feed which would be the LR summed to mono, and it could be used for a center cluster, or for delay fills, balcony, foyer, etc. A lot of churches are best off running mono entirely because only about 5 people are sitting where they can actually hear stereo in a wide room lol. So yes, there is a lot of overlap and redundancy, and that's perfect because it gives lots of flexibility depending on operator style and the needs of the facility and setup. Professional consoles have countless more options and redundancies, because even this one can't do certain setups because it doesn't have enough busses or matrices or whatever lol So I hope that gives you a better idea of this console!

Oh, and subgroups when used for things like fx and monitors would not be routed to the Mains, because they are feeding other outputs or the internal fx rack, while subgroups used for the vocal group etc would be routed into the LR buss, it's just being used to control the level of the group as a group, before going to the speakers.

Thank you so much for the thorough response! I chuckled a little thinking about the people at church who actually can enjoy stereo lol. After much planning, im gonna go ahead and attempt to use the subgroups as well since the compression will help the vocals be in front of the band no matter who the volunteer at the mixer is. When i use a subgroup, will i still be able to apply eq and compression onto the individual channels? Do they act as a fine adjustment and the subgroups is a macro adjustment?

​@@Kingdom0324you can put compression and eq on a channel, on a mix buss, or on matrix buss or on the Main busses, and they are all separate. So you would want to do your room compensation eq on the Mains, the livestream eq and compression on that bus, and then make whatever adjustments you need on each channel there. It's an art deciding what to put on what location lol If you just do everything on the channel it will work, but the more you can move to the actual output the better. And for doing the vocal/band subs, I would put some compression on each channel to help hold the mix together and lift up the quiet singers, and then apply more on the bus to keep it playing well between the band and instruments. You can use the Gain setting in the compression screen to add makeup gain and compensate for the compression. And keep compression at a minimum so you don't crush the dynamics too far

Yes and no. You can't send a mixbus directly to another mixbus. You would have to reprogram an aux channel to have the source coming from the mixbus. Then that aux channel could then go to another mixbus. A bit of a work around, but it would work.

@@DrewBrashler thanks for the answer ! Ill try it

​@@DrewBrashler could not get it to work. If i undestood you right, you told me to route a mixbus (#1; drums) to an external hardware aux, then route back in to the console with a cable, and then sent it to another mixbus? For me that second mixbus would be "drums&bass"; sending my bass also to that mixbus. What i want to do is this: group all my drums tracks to a mixbus, apply fairly hard compresion to accentuate the drums groove; send it to the hardware aux; route it back to the console with a cable, route that reentrydrums to a second mixbus. I would send my bass to this same second mixbus and apply compresion again, softer this time, to get the bass to groove with the drums. Is that posible? Did I miss anything?

Yes! You would still do normal channel processing just like you would be if you were sending it to the LR Buss!

@@DrewBrashlerThanks, I essentially had the same question, about compressing twice. I kind of figured that was the case, but not something you specifically mentioned in the video.

Yes you should actually route your drum reverb back to your drum bus. Same for vocals. It should not go to LR. If it does go to LR, and your effects are post fader, when you turn up individual channels, they will feed the compressor, and your reverb will soon overpower the vocal since it is post fader and feeding LR. If you feed your vocal reverb to the vocal bus, now your reverb will not overpower the vocal since they will both be getting compressed by the vocal bus. That’s how I do it anyways. It’s a Dave Ratt technique

@@Ben_O3149 thank you!

Yes i did it for years before iever mixed FOH with an x32 console. Just use the send knobs when you select a channel..its easy. Why would you or not want to use SOF? Its really up to your person workflow preference but i generally just use the send knobs per mix bus as im going thru and getting gain and monitors amounts.

I will typically send my effects to the subgroups. Thanks for watching!

@@DrewBrashler make sense, thanks

Yes and no. You can't send a mixbus directly to another mixbus. You would have to reprogram an aux channel to have the source coming from the mixbus. Then that aux channel could then go to another mixbus. A bit of a work around, but it would work.

@@DrewBrashler Many thanks, I will try that

None due to everything being run inside the X32 The only way you'll run into latency issues is running Waves SuperRack or a similar software which is run externally then back into the X32

Youll also experience delay if you insert a x32 rack effect onto a subgroup to my understanding. @@jericco.

​@@jericco. ​ @clarkbush3098 I guess it's either that or by inserting the combinator that is gonna cause some slight delay. Anyway thank you both for the reply.

I would like to use both at the same time.

I don’t see that anywhere in the documentation. Can you provide a link to the information on the convertors functionality?

@drefue there's a youtube video with Robest Schovill where he gives an understanding of gain structure and explains it there.

Watched the video, but most would disagree. Having your meter hover around -18 will provide all the clarity and definition you need. In fact, running the X32 hot is a no-no according to some. Losing a few bits of resolution isn’t an issue.

@@drefue I'm going to listen to one of the best live sound engineers on the planet. You can listen to whomever you want.

That fine. You can do that, but don’t post a comment like it’s a fact. It’s not. He’s just one man with an opinion. There others who would disagree. In fact, there are others who would tell you he’s factually wrong. That’s all I’m trying to say. Cheers.

You can’t add compression or EQ to a DCA

Yes, and no - it depends on your overall needs and available options. DCAs only give you volume control - so, as stated, no DSP options - but if your busses are already being used for IEM/monitor mixes/stream/mother's room/etc. DCAs is one option. Another option (I haven't dug into yet) may be the use of the matrix feature - not sure what is and isn't available on a matrix mix, in terms of DSP, or routing - but they may well be another viable option here or for other things. Many options with a digital mixer.

I believe you can't do anything on the DCA's except for raising or lowering the volume of the groups. So there would be no extra eq, compression inserts,, fx etc

Dave Rat is the man!

@@DrewBrashler and you are filling a similar position as Dave in the church sound space. ;) I have been doing church tech for over 30 years now, but all analog boards until a few weeks ago when I started helping at a small local church that had just upgraded to the X32, and so I am on a crash course of getting comfortable with not having everything on the surface, but also being able to implement all the routing and processing tricks that I have learned from Dave and others over the years, but never been able to implement because I didn't have an outboard rack full of toys, and your videos have been one of the best sources I have found to answer my questions and help me rapidly learn the X32, when I don't even have access to board before sound check! Lol I really appreciate your camera work so we can always see exactly what's going on, and learn the little tricks that only come through experience or observation. And knowing how God works, I am probably learning the X32 now because I will probably end up supporting other churches in upgrading to the X32 in the near future! Lol So thank you for what you are doing, because you are equipping what I am calling the 6th Fold Ministry, the Apostles of Tech! (Paul forgot to include this because we were very much behind the scenes in his era, but now we literally run the show and facilitate most sharing of the Gospel ;) )

Feedback is always something you have to keep tabs on, but I have mixed live with this method for years and it has always rocked. Also, with the not enough time, I have a starting file for every mixer that I use on the regular that has the routing already done for me. That is the beauty of offline editors. Thanks for watching and the comment!

@@DrewBrashler I'm sure... I just use the x32 rack and can't seem to make subgroups using the video because they seem to have different layouts between the x32 console and the x32 rack. Thanks

@@DrewBrashler I would love to see the vids using edit instead of the console, that way (if I'm not mistaken) they would apply to either hardware choice.

process is the exact same as shown in the video just its done with the remote software.

Thanks for the feedback! In my current video editing workflow, to use a ducker I would have to process my audio outside of Adobe Premiere which would add another step, so I haven't been doing that for time sake. I will reconsider this in the future. Thanks!

Yeah, but you have to remember this platform came out in August 2012, just shy of 11 years ago. It’s competition was what? Presonus studio live and Yamaha LS9? I think it was pretty robust at the time.