as a kid I went to a reds game and I was giving barry crap for 3 days straight. He somehow ignored me for 2 and 1/2 games. Finally I said something to him to finally get his attention and make him look up at me. I yelled and said "Hey barry your pretty good but your no mark mcgwire are you buddy" No kidding he went to bat the next inning and hit a home run that landed 2 seats from me. I honestly think he was trying to hit me with the ball. He came back out and looked at me like now what. I never said anything negative about him again and never will.
They were spot on at the end about Barry's nightly batting stats. The early 2000s watching ESPN, and seeing Bonds going across the screen, it was almost always 1-1, or 1-2, 2-2, with 1-2 walks for 5 years. The guy literally would get just a few pitches a night and still knocked in 45+ home runs 5 years in a row.. I mean think about it, this guy got 120 INTENTIONAL Walks in one season at 39 YEARS OLD. If he and everyone else was juicing, then he was still the best at it.
That's what happens when you take steroids and you have some talent to go with them. You put up gaudy numbers. That's why Bonds should never be in the Hall. He cheated, lied about it, then acted like he was a victim. Why reward that deception with anything but punishment? He set records because he cheated. Now we have to honor him for it? Why? Where is that tolerated in any other area of life? If he didn't have millions of dollars, he'd have been sent to prison. He is a convicted felon.
***** When did he start juicing? You don't know, because he started juicing, which calls into question everything he's ever done. So no. He was never a HOFer before he was juicing. His career was not HOF worthy if you just look at what he did as a Pirate.
Gaius Caligula He won 2 MVP's with the pirates and was on his way to being a HOFer without question. It's pretty obvious when he started juicing, considering his head grew about 3x it's normal size. Also, Bonds was the most feared hitter ever, period. People act like doing steroids just automatically turns you into a great hitter, which is laughable.
***** It isn't obvious when he started juicing. He may have been juicing since high school, we don't know. Why give the man the benefit of the doubt? He has never owned up to ever juicing. He cheated. Roger Clemens cheated, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire, A-Rod, David Ortiz, Manny Ramirez, and the list goes on and on. If you cheat, you do not get into the hall. It's that simple. Barry might have been able to stay healthy and at a top level without roids. But once he started getting hurt, he started taking roids to heal faster and get stronger. But because Barry is a lying cheat, he doesn't deserve to be given the benefit of the doubt. For all we know, he took roids from day one. Why assume he's innocent when he can't admit anything? He has been convicted for being a liar. He cheated for at least a decade, that's a career. He played in Pit for 7 seasons. What he did in those 7 seasons are not enough to get him in the Hall. Let's say he didn't juice in Pit, there isn't any reason to give him the benefit of the doubt on that, but let's say he didn't start untill he he got to San Fran. His home run total before San Fran 176. That's 7 seasons with an average of 25 homers per season. Then he got to San Fran and all of the sudden there was a burst of power. He managed to hit 586 homers for San Fran. Let me say that again, in 15 seasons for San Fran Barry hit 586 homers. That's an average of 39 homers per season. An increase of 14 homers per season. And completely contrary to everyone else, he got more powerful and better at hitting homers as he aged. If his first 7 seasons were used to get an idea of what his career should have been, then after 21 seasons, if his body would have lasted that long without roids, he would have ended up with 528 homers, after 22 season 553 homers. A far cry from the 762 he ended up with after he juiced. By why give the man any credit at all? Why assume he could have done that without roids? WHY!
***** .No. Look at him. He was taking so much shit, it transformed him into a mutant. I'm not saying if you only dabble here and there it should be pardoned. But it's something to consider, and at least it is not likely to change you into a mutant. The more you take, the more obvious it all is. And the more likely that it is not you out there swinging and but the product created by hormone-changing,substances. That's a fact, and it's something to think about. Those precious records you mention? Without that power and recovery ability, how many of those prized homeruns do you think would have been fly outs? How much less of a mental edge would he have had over the pitchers he faced? And how much slower would he have been on the bases if hadn't juiced?
***** It's his own fault, Kevin. Bonds was cast out of the spotlight by the feats of McGwires and Sosas, couldn't stand it and jumped on board. Hence the "are you going to jump off a bridge just because everyone else is doing it?" phrase every child knows. There's a reason parents say that shit. Barry should have paid a little more attention, because now those very cheaters who he was trying to catch up to by cheating are scorned. It's only right that he is scorned, too. And when your dad is poppa bonds, there are NO excuses.
Bonds did something no one else could ever do and that's change the game of baseball and level up Sosa and McGuire he is a legend and deserves this hall of fame induction they both were probably juicing longer and still did not even reach 700hr... along with many others there's probably so many others who were juicing during that time span but didn't get acknowledged because they weren't as talented.
no idiot. not everyone in that time used them. you honor the men who played within the rules, who respected the game, when you keep these cheating bums out. if there is evidence of using them, they dont make the HOF. simple.
+vic verhelst Where's the proof? He never tested positive or admitted anything related to PEDs. I'll admit he was a jerk to the media however why was it terrible for him to juice even though again never tested positive when everyone in that time era was doing it?
+vic verhelst Where's the proof? He never tested positive or admitted anything related to PEDs. I'll admit he was a jerk to the media however why was it terrible for him to juice even though again never tested positive when everyone in that time era was doing it?
@Dontdoittoyoself There are many players who should be in there besides Albert Belle. Lee Smith former all time saves leader 474 saves is not in the hall yet someone like Bruce Sutter who only had 300 career saves and only played for a few seasons gets into the hall just because he won a Cy Young one season. Big fucking whoop.
john doe It's getting to the point IDC anymore I feel like the game is ruined. Bonds was always a HOFer before steroid accusations. I just know guys that have been taken their whole career will get in if haven't happened already. Ramirez and Palmeiro was definitely going to get in. The media just wants a good story it seems like. Meaning they like them personally and they haven't been caught.
Bonds hit over 50 HR's once in his career, the year he hit 73. He had 9847 total at-bats with a total of 3246 combined BB's and IBB's. For every 3 times he came to bat he walked once!! Think about that stat and his hitting ability and you can't make the case that steroids had anything to do with his numbers. He is the greatest hitter over the last 30 years, hands down.
Why did he walk so many times? Because pitchers didn't want to pitch to him. Why didn't pitchers want to pitch to him? Because he was hitting 60 homers a year? Why? Because of the use of an illegal substance, a federally banned substance.
Hopatcong1981 He hit over 50 HR's in his career once!!! According to your logic, Bonds walked so many times because pitchers were afraid of him and not because of his "eye" for a pitch?? Bonds was a also a stolen base threat. The percentage's of him scoring after a walk is much higher than him hitting one out of the park.
Barry's goal was four MVPs but after he received three, he was passed up so juiced up players could get it even though his saber metric numbers were still better than Kent, Camineti, even Sosa. He had to force the writers vote him a fourth MVP in 2001 with the greatest offensive year anyone ever had. He followed that with a 232 walk year that gave him a .615 OBP
Nick Santoianni Ha Ha it turns fly outs into home runs. they forgot to tell the other 90percent of players that were using. i wonder if there is a return policy for steroids or maby they only got the kind that gives warning track power Ha Ha i have herd a lot of excuses but that's the best one yet. you are right the guy had a perfect swing it's hard for people to come to terms with that. because they hate him so much
Nick Santoianni So right now I can hit 0 home runs, roids adds 40 pounds, you are saying I will still hit 0 home runs. You obviously don't know baseball. Plus these players use more than just roids, they stack. If it didn't work why are they using them?
Why does Bonds get so much hate, he didn't use steroids his whole career and McGwire and Sosa did it to and I don't see any hate here or anywhere else. It's stupid!
People are puppets that follow the media. Bonds learned to dislike the media from his dad. The media will anything and jump on a player like a pack of wolves.
In America you are innocent until proven guilty. Bonds was never proven guilty, so he is innocent. Rose broke the rule, Bonds did not. And I am a HUGE Rose fan.
No that's bullshit man I'll say that Bonds took steriods and I don't care what anyone says he did bud. Pete Rose did he bet on baseball yes but if you go by what you just said until Rose finally admitted to betting on baseball in 2004 after being suspended for 14 years why wasn't he elected to the hall of fame in those 14 years answer that I know he was banned for life but if you go by the agreement they signed he wouldn't admit and he also woundnt deni that he bet on baseball and he could apply for reinstatement after one year. So as far as I'm concerned did Rose do something terrible to the game absolutely but he did nothing to alter the statistics of baseball. So LET HIM IN and if Bonds gets in before Rose it will kill baseball big time
Jonathan Kubacki well unluckily for u, idk if youve heard or not bu the FBI has just dropped all charges against Barry Bonds. He now has literally 0 on him. You can believe what u want but the truth is he has been convicted of zilch. Bonds is the greatest baseball player of all time and should absolutely with no doubt be in the HOF. The comment above is not bullshit it is 1000 percent correct. The only tthing thats been against Bonds is court of public opinion, which is the real bullshit. Oh well we wanna think what we want even tho theres no proof that Bonds ever did steroids. That to me sounds like a biased opinion, ppl who wanna believe that Bonds did sumthing wrong cause they dont wanna give him his props. Truth is u along with all the Bonds haters know nothing, you have no idea what Bonds does during his day. All u do is swallow what the mainstream media shoves down your throat. Imagine if u were in the same situation and everyone had u pegged guilty with no proof, just assumption and opinion. Im sure yiu would have an entirely different outlook than the biased opinion you hold against Bonds now...
Bonds deserves to get in for sure. Steroids dont help you make contact with a 95mph fastball than next pitch have to hit a 80 mph curveball. Bonds also stole alot of bases, and in the mlb its pretty hard to steal a base with a catcher that has a cannon. And he was a great fielder. He swing was one of the best swings ive ever seen, steroids dont make you have a buster posey like swing, before you people say he is the biggest cheater of all time you may want to do your research on steroids and bonds.
THANK GOD SOMEONE ELSE SAID IT. People are so quick to jump on the Bonds hate wagon it's almost funny what they're willing to turn a blind eye to. Steroids give you power, Bonds also had off the charts skill.
Steroids give you strength, and focus... Give that to a guy that already had those two attributes, and you get Bonds. He should be in, because he never tested positive. It's all accusations, there are several athletes who gained weight in all sports, but baseball is the only sport that went the extra mile about steroids. Take the so-called steroid era out, and Bonds is still better than Jones, who was just elected.
it helps give you strength and also helps you recover faster which in turn gives you more chances at HRs. Had he not been on steroids i highly doubt he gets so many HRs.
love him or hate him but Barry was our modern day Josh Gibson and Babe Ruth. Let's say he used steroids but many people did but his numbers make him better than the rest. The man only saw 2or 3 good pitches a game and hit them out of the park. I want to say also Barry broke the National League Walk record in 1996.. if you don't believe it look it up. what does this mean the man belongs in the Hall of Fame .. Just off what he did before 1998. He won 3 MVP's in a four year span 1990,1992,1993 and came in 2nd place in 1991 that would have been 4 in a row tell us that's not HOF worthy that's all without no steroids.
Span of career is the problem, ball players before and after that era break down near the end or at least slow down. Of course Bonds was a great player but these drugs very well could have helped him suit up and play everyday. I still would vote him into the HOF but it is a stain on the sport. I could have cared less to watch steroid baseball.
Yes he does, he was already a great and very talented player even before the steroids, steroids don’t give you talent or skills, the talent has to already has to be there they just give you a edge
Considering that I'm a giant fan and am a fan of barry bonds I definitely want him to be inducted into the hall of fame. Barry had problems with the media and the sportswriters and if the sportswriters don't like you (regardless if you deserve to be in the hall of fame) you won't be inducted. Barry wasn't the nicest person ever, but man he was a hell of a player. He should eventually get in the hall of fame, if not the hall of fame is a joke.
Barry Bonds is the best baseball player that I have ever seen. He won 3 MVPs before he touched steroids. He hit 49 HRs in 1993 and joined the 40/40 club in 1996 completely clean. He didn't start using until 1999. He was still voted the best player of the 1990s and he wasn't on roids! And although I do believe he started using steroids in 1999 he is without a doubt one of the 10 best players of all time. He won 7 MVPs which is 4 more then any other player in the history of the MLB. Him not being in the Hall of Fame is the equivalent of Michael Jordan or Lawrence Taylor not being in the Hall of Fame. Jordan was a notorious gambler and Taylor was a drug addict. The Baseball Hall of Fame is the only sports Hall of Fame that puts integrity before skill. It should be the other way around.
Jim rice was intentionally walked 77 times in his 16 year career with the red sox. Barry bonds was intentionally walked 77 times in may and june of 2003. Bonds has 7 mvps. More than twice as many as any player in the hall of fame. 525 career stolen bases......ted williams only stole 24 bases in his entire career. 14x all star. 12 silver slugger awards, 9 gold gloves all time home run leader, all time walk leader, 2558 walks. He was at bat almost 10,000 times. One out of every 3 at bats in his career was a walk. Astonishing. all time intentional walk leader single season hr leader 73. Best player to ever play the game fool. By far. Steroids only make you bigger
stripervince1 roids help you with power he wouldn’t have won those silver sluggers same for mvps and he’s gold gloves mean nothing just that your a good fielder and just being a good fielder won’t get you in the walks were because his hrs which were from roids and all star is just popularity not how good you are
Great stats. You should push for OJ to get his heisman back too. At least murdering his wife and Ron Goldman didn't give him an advantage over the other players in the NFL.
The big thing here is steroids. Why should Barry get punished for doing something that was legal at the time. That just doesn't make sense. If we was taking steroids when they were illegal then absolutely he doesn't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame, but that wasn't the case. He did it legally, although not natural it was legal and that's a fact. It's not Barry's fault the MLB did not ban this substance while he was playing, so you cannot punish him because what he was doing was perfectly legal.
I am Irish so firgive this question...but when they talk about Paul Bunyan - are they ta,lking about the guy who lead the blue ox? How do you sepll the name of the baseball Paul Bunyan?
Steriods help some in strength and recovery which leads to staying on the field later in the season. Maybe it helped in the ERA not being even higher than what they were in 2000. Was Roger Clements benefit in using PEDS more power and control or simply becoming more durable. Along with his gifts this would make him legendary. You can extend your peak longer.
Yes! Numbers don’t lie. When he was in his prime, he was the greatest all around hitter of all time. I don’t care how many PED’s he used, it is NOT easy to do what he did.
So?! The glove didn't fit, that doesn't mean OJ didn't murder his wife. Lance Armstrong didn't test positive for steroids, and look what happened! Titles stripped! Banned Road Bicycle Racing! Bonds belongs in the Hall Of SHAME!
Barry Bonds did test positive for steroids. The FBI had drug tests from BALCO that showed Bonds testing positive for steroids. Bonds also testified under oath in court that he used steroids, the clear and the cream. Bonds cheated so he doesn't belong in the HOF. Also, Bonds started doping early in his career, well before the 1999 date that is floated by Bonds apologists. Bonds career is built on cheating. Bonds wasn't good enough to make the HOF, so he doped.
It's "hall of fame", not "hall of legitimate statistics". he should absolutely be in, it was a pivotal era in baseball and excluding it is just ridiculous
@Reginal Aristocat the article also said that there is no panel that says he tested positive for steroids. The test went by numbers only. That's why he was never founded guilty in the perjury case
BARRY BONDS is the all time leader in home runs, and he established himself as a great player early on in his career and I may make some heads explode on this one outside the steroids allegation, he,s never had a off field issues. BARRY BONDS should be in the Hall of Fame.
I agree with you Tru,he was one of the all time greats. Even without the steroids,people need to look back at his days in Pittburgh,and his 1st few seasons on the Giants. Him,his father,and Jose Canseco are one of the only few players in baseball history to hit 40 homers,steal 40 bases,hitting over .300 constantly,and on top of that had a good eye at the plate. Those walks don't like.
Also, I agree that Bonds should be in the Hall of Fame (best player since Ruth, maybe better), but Skip's argument are awful. Gold gloves are a joke (although Bonds WAS a very good defender), RBI is a joke stat, MVP awards are frequently given to an undeserving player (Cabrera the last two years, Verlander before him, Ryan Howard, Maury Wills in 1962), All-Star game selections don't actually matter and a 40/40 year is great but not enough to get a guy into the HOF (see Canseco).
So you're telling me that Barry Bonds, if you take his career before 1998, was NOT a Hall of Famer? The man who almost had a wRC+ of 200, twice? The man who compiled over 80 fWAR and was one of the greatest all-around players ever as regards his superior fielding, baserunning, and hitting for both power and average? The fact that Skip was using strawhatty stats doesn't mean that the premise of his argument is false. No matter how you spin it, if Barry Bonds retired after 1998, he's a Hall of Famer. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
otteravner Are you stupid or something? Literally the first sentence I wrote was: I agree that Bonds should be in the Hall of Fame. So no, I'm pretty obviously NOT telling you that Bonds shouldn't be in the Hall.
wyssmaster What you said was that the argument that Bonds should be in the Hall if you just take the pre-steroid portion of his career (if you believe the common diatribe that he started taking steroids after the 1998 season) is an awful argument. I'm telling you that it's not an awful argument because it's true. Bonds's overall career being Hall-worthy never came into question. If you'll note, I wrote in MY first line "if you take his career before 1998," so clearly I was addressing that point of your argument. So, although I prefer to stay away from ad hominem attacks in debates, because you made the exact same mistake you thought that I made, I must ask: are you stupid or something?
otteravner No, I said that Skip's argument is awful, which it is. I specifically noted his citing Gold Gloves, RBI totals, MVP awards, All-Star selections and a 40/40 year. I didn't mention Bonds' pre-bulk totals in this post. and if you're talking about my argument with someone else on here then what the hell are you talking about because i pretty obviously think bonds is basically a hall of famer twice over and probably the best player ever
How the fuck was Cabrera an 'undeserving MVP'? He won the Triple Crown one year, the first to do it since Yaz. He was the best hitter in baseball by a mile in 2012 and 2013.
I'm so sick of the "he was a HOF before steroids".....that makes it even worse....that's like saying "I had an A on the test BEFORE I got caught with a cheat sheet" or "I was already leading the Boston Marathon BEFORE I got on a motorcycle" .....cmon ppl
I agree that he was already a HOF player before he started taking steroids, but if athletes cheat and get caught, they lose everything they have earned
+Brian Faltar he never failed a test or admitted it. I believe he did, but what does my opinion mean? if he never failed a mlb given test or if he never said he did, what is the reason for him not being in the hall of fame?
Ryan4233 IF he didn't get injured and have his body wear down. That's a big if because, normally, the harder you play, the harder a beating your body takes. Just ask Ken Griffey Jr.
When Barry Bonds played for the Pirates during the early 1990's, he obviously had MVP stats during the regular season, but, when it came time to demonstrate that talent in the playoffs he would go AWOL! The truest measure of greatness for any professional athlete in his chosen sport is "how did he perform when the stakes were at their highest"! Unfortunately, Barry Bonds would 'shrivel up and die' during the Post Season when his team needed him the most! For that very reason, he'll forever be labeled a "CHOKER" in the eyes of many Pirate fans!
when you keep Barry and Clemens out it doesn't hurt them it hurts the hall of fame. the idea that those in there are the best of their era. bonds was so much better than his peers with or without steroids. that it turns the hall of fame into a joke. you cant walk through there and see current players get inducted without thinking bonds was way better than them. were as good as Pete Rose was. he wasnt that muche better than his peers the likes of Joe Morgan, Willie Stargel, Roberto Clemente Ozzie Smith Hank Arron willy Mays and so on.where as bonds was way better than canceco McGwire,Sosa, palmaro and all the other players who were using . along with the players who weren't using. no player since the 80s up until today has had more of and impact on the game.
***** were talking about bonds being or not being in the HOF here because of his use of steroids and PEDS and lying about it. What the hell does Rose, Stargel, Clemente, Smith, Aaron or Mays got to do with the use of steroids. Why is it every time steroids or PEDs Pete Roses name is brought up? Never will figure that one out. Just think if some of the names mentioned above were using steroids, bonds would just be a small footnote in some baseball book.
Dennis L whether he lied or not hes still way better than the players in his era that got in. you want to stand on high moral ground then blame 80percent of the players in the league who were exposed by the same investigation. instead of singling out one or two players. the hall of fame becomes a joke when you keep some one thats head over heals better than the players being let in. didn't matter if players were using drugs or not he was still way better than they were everyone in baseball knew it there are players taking drugs to this day they will never have the impact that bonds had.
one of the greatest indeed he was a hall of famer before the juice but i think what kills him the most is the HR record had he not pass Aaron or even Ruth there wouldnt be so much heat on him
If Griffey used steroids he woulda beaten Bonds HR record, at age 36 Bonds was hitting 73 home runs in a season. At 36 Griffey was battling injury after injury.
VeRnSquad5611 pre roid Bonds was a better hitter than prime Griffey was anyway, and it’s not close. HRs aren’t the entirety of hitting. Check OBP, SLG, OPS, OPS+ from 1990-1998.
Daniel kelegion: Not a good argument. A stronger player will hit the ball harder than a weaker layer. He was able to get the ball past infielders because of his increased strength. He was able to get it past outfielders and get a double or triple instead of a single. He probably was walked so many times because he could more easily hit a HR instead of a double, so pitchers would rather walk him.
Haha it's funny when people say oh he cheated he shouldn't go in the HOF, well hate to break it to you but theres quite a few players that have been known to cheat that are in the hall
Skip sometimes makes me cringe... but he and Parker are both right here. By the end of the 1998 season (the season before he started juicing) Bonds was (and still is) the only player with 400 HR's and 400 steals. For that alone he deserves induction. A Baseball Hall Of Fame without him and Clemens can't be taken seriously. Where were the BBWAA when the juicing was going on anyway?
Bonds is clearly a hall of famer, best hitter of his generation,he wasn't the only one using peds we have to be fair he played in the same playing field as other players were also using peds, baseball has always and will always be a cheating ground if you do your research players from the 1915 through the 70s were taking greenies ,amphetamines, sharpening thier spikes,spitting on baseballs so that baseballs would so dirty the hitters couldn't see the ball comming at them,the blacksox scandal, etc... hell reasearch ty cobb he was a racist,biggit, and even killed a person and hes in the hall ,he was the one sharpening his spikes trying to kill the basemen, these writers who dont want mcgwire,bonds,sosa clemens,palmeiro etc in the hall are jokes, thier hipicrits themselves everyone,owners, managers, etc.. all benefited from this era , stop the hypocrisy and let these players in, and sorry trout is not in the same league as bonds, will see at the end so far Bonds is best the best of alltime.
+My Mind of Madness +The Scarecrow Bonds took steroids, deserves to be taken out of HOF talk and Rose isn't in HOF because he broke an MLB rule and bet on games, his fault, not baseball's
Ac Michael you don't know that at all. All the signs for steroid abuse are there anyway. The same signs as McGuire, Canseco, Sosa, ect. That man took steroids no question.
Then explain his 9.9 home runs per at bat at the age of 39, best in the majors by more than 20%. It is also the best home run hitting of his career. Sounds like Bonds, but its Hammering hank. We know he juiced here in japan
MsSexyjapanesegirl There are no facts, you ignorant fool. Because Aaron had kept up the production that he had all is his career, you think he was juicing. You have nothing to base that on but one good season by even Aaron's high standards. As for myself, I played NCAA baseball. So don't try and school me on the game when it is obvious that you have no clue what you are talking about.
tgear77 Kept up his production? Hank Aaron used PED's. The proof is in the numbers, from the ages of 27-29 (respectable years and performance) his home runs per at bat at age 37-39 improved 26.6%? Had he been given the same number at bats from his early years as his late, Henry Aaron would have been hitting an average of !!!55.13!!! home runs a year. At age 39, he would have topped off at 62.11 home runs breaking Roger Maris's single season record. However, it seems like fuzzy math but I am talking about home run efficiency. He only played an average 130 games a year during his 37-39. These are very significant samples of his career, so how do you explain the dramatic increase in power after the age of 37?
The day that Barry bonds gets into the hall of fame is the day I lose all faith in the MLB. Just because he was not the exception in the steiroid era does not mean anything. Just because every player did steirods does not make bonds a HOF. The HOF is supose to represent baseballs best and brightest. Bonds was a cheater and a bad person. If everyone stole money from a bank should you not charge them?
Steroid era? Lol, there will always be steroids in baseball now so don't kid yourself. And a bad person? You don't even really know Bonds so give me break.
Jarred Sherman You currently have faith in the Baseball Hall of Fame? It has players in it who have done some form of PED's and there are plenty of players who should be in it that aren't and vice versa. It's all a complete joke.
Jarred Sherman you are idiotic, there are players in the HOF thats used steriods before Bonds was even on the ballet. You have to understand, almost ALL the elite hitters of the "steroid era" were juicing. Like skip said, PITCHERS were juicing. It was an even playing ground that SO many players were doing. Does it make it okay? No , but you can't take that away from theese players, steroids don't make you a good ball player, just hit the ball further, you must have the ability to see the pitch, bat speed, and pure skill to hit for Average and Power like he did. Bonds was one of the best players EVER, and roids probably just helped him hit the ball further. Thats it. NOT inducting bonds is an INSULT to baseball. Why do so many players in bond's era say he was the best player they have ever seen? Everyone knew it. Bonds best player in the last 40+ years. Fact. Put him in the damn HALL.
Biggest point no one ever seems to mention is all the owners were on board, condoning and encouraging it, same with the coaches whom are in the hall of fame
Barry Bonds is NO hall of famer, a real hall of famer is a player who plays the game with RESPECT, he is a cheater and a player who cheats does not respect the game therefore NO HALL OF FAME for Mr Bonds
HAHAHAHA...respect? Can you name more than 15 players in the Hall of Fame, much less name more than 15 who actually respected the game, and/or didn't cheat?! Almost all of them cheated, and almost all of them admitted to it! Charles Comiskey, HOF, tried to prevent Blacks from entering the MLB - RACIST, didn't respect the game, Ty Cobb hated Black People, allegedly part of the KKK, much like Bonds is an alleged cheater, hated everyone, and even tried to kill a fan...AND he used to sharpen his cleats to spike players while he stole bases...you call that respect? Gaylord Perry doctored baseballs, Willie Mays amongst hundreds of other players during the amphetamine era used GREENIES, which is the the equivalent of taking 20 red bulls in one shot before each game...if you don't know the history of the MLB, and it hasn't been proven that Bonds actually cheated...then SHUT YOUR MOUTH, AND KNOW YOUR PLACE! Oh yeah, DUMBASS, do you even know what steroids or PEDs actually do? They don't make you stronger..they aren't a magic serum that you inject and you turn into the fucking Hulk...they assist in doubling the time it takes to HEAL after strenuous workouts...so has no bearing on batters...who need bat speed and a batters eye to actually hit a ball, much less hit a home run...do your homework
Alvin Lee if you played the game cleaned but lost your position, playing time and millions of dollars to a roid user, would your comments still be the same? you state, roids don't do this, roids don't do that, if they don't help why did bonds used them? if they are okay to use, why are they federally banned? If they do not help assist your ability to hit a ball, why at the Congressional Hearings did McGuire "not wanna talk about the past, only the future?" Sosa all of a sudden in court forgot how to speak English. Palmeiro waved his finger, then later tested positive for stanozolol. If good old Rafael did not do any thing wrong, trying to gained an advantage against his peers, i mean these things "don't make you stronger..has no bearing on batters" why didn't he say "YEAH, I USED ROIDS, SO WHAT THEY DON'T HELP!" They do help that's why used them.
Hopatcong1981 Respect the game talk is Bullshit because if anything. The game disrespected Bonds. MLB commissioner, owners and the media set the trend for what the game was about. All they did was kiss Sosa and McGuire's ass or turn a blind eye at the detriment to the likes of Griffey or Bonds. If people actually gave a fuck about players being clean then McGriff would be in the hall. But playing the game being played the right way doesn't always reward you that's why McGriff wasn't able to see anymore playing time to get a clean 500 home runs. And I guess 500 hr's doesn't mean much when it gets compared to juiced guys.
Barry and the Rocket definitely deserve to be in but its hard to make the case for McQuire and Sosa though.Bonds was the most feared hitter in the game and Clemons was one of the greatest pitchers ever so..Canseco although a steroids guy was an amazing player as well with 500 HR's and along with Bonds a member of the 40-40 club,40 hr's and 40 sb's in a season.
There have been numerous work-a-day pitchers that said they personally saw from 30 to 50 percent of pitching staff use steroids. So, it was a level field up to half the time, and add the fact he got 2 pitches to hit a night, you have a HOF no brainer.
It doesnt matter whether he used steroids or he didnt the fact is he was a beast, also lets check who didnt do steroids in the steroids era, so dont come telling me he doesnt deserve to get in HOF, hes a natural thats everything we need to face here. With or without steroids he have proven worthy of being one of the greatest of all time.
Bayless is right. Bonds would be a hall of famer with his pre-1995 playing. But if he does, so does Clemens. Clemens had already won three cy youngs before anyone knew!
There are still a ton of names that were not released on that list... I bet you some of them are in the hall now.. I wouldn't put it past Griffey jr either.. I mean I wouldn't be surprised
Babe Ruth and many other players from that error experimented with animal testerone, all MLB players have tried to get an edge without getting caught or breaking the current rules of their error.....
Baseball is about the Game, It's not about giving a Great Interview after the Game is Won or Lost.. Baseball Writers should base their Votes on the Accomplishments of the Player and not vote against a Player because they hated that they never had a Great One on One interview and then later put in the paper that the Player sucked or could have done this or that or the other thing.. The Writers should be ashamed for what they did and are doing.
Carter was probably 10 times the person Bonds was, but the Hall recognizes play on the field, not personalities. Carter doesnt belong in the same Hall as Ruth and Mays. He got in as a lifetime achievement award.
I don't really like the "saved baseball" argument, but it definitely holds some merit. Either way, they'll all get in eventually. Time heals all wounds...except maybe the ones over Shoeless Joe and the black sox (I think Rose will get in someday, but probably after he dies).
lcrsww The difference between Bonds and Rose is that Rose knew that what he was doing would get him banned from baseball and did it anyway, and then lied about it for decades. What Bonds allegedly did was NOT a bannable offense when it may have happened. Never mind the fact that there was a significant drop in offense in Major League Baseball as a whole after the ban of amphetamines, not steroids.
If such was the case, then why did Bonds not come clean and make the point that he was not doing anything wrong. Because he knew he was cheating and continued doing so. When MLB would ban one substance, Bonds would go out and find a new way to cheat. Bonds should never be put in the Hall.
tgear77 Why didn't he? I don't know, maybe because he had never tested positive and as such could claim that he was being falsely accused. I don't know if you're aware, but baseball writers tend to be really stupid, especially when it comes to stuff like steroids. Are you his trainer? Do you know exactly what he used, when he used it and when MLB "banned" it? No, I didn't think so.
wyssmaster There is enough evidence out there from the BALCO investigation to Greg Anderson's making millions for not talking to the unnatural body changes to the testimony of his ex-girlfriend, etc. If you want to try and make a concrete case in a court of law where defense lawyers can spin things and have testimony and evidence stricken, then no, we can't find him guilty. But the Hall does not have to find him innocent. The voters are smart enough to know that he cheated. That is all there is too it. He cheated. He has never come clean. He has never apologized. He should never go into the Hall.
EVERY BALL PLAYER STARTING THE YEAR THEY FIRST GOT PAID FROM THE BEGINNING OF TIME WOULD HAVE USED ANYTHING THEY COULD GET THERE HANDS ON TO IMPROVE THERE PERFORMANCE PERIOD,AN THEY DID.
The end of this video hits the nail on the head. This is payback by the BBWAA for all those years that Barry told them to fuck off from his locker, or would refuse to give them an interview. It really has nothing to do with steroids. It's about perceived disrespect, and these baseball writers don't forgive or forget. You could toss a coin between him and Griffey as the greatest all-round player of the last 25 years, but I would also bet my last dollar that he won't get into the Hall.
