MMOs Built Different | Castle Super Beast Clips 

Woolie, a fighting games fan, finding out what happens when a game makes money.

Woolie can't process the fact that it is now completely plausible to support a game forever.

I will never be not flabbergasted by the fact that Masayoshi Soken wrote "To the Edge" in a goddamn hospital bed while fighting cancer. christ.

Remember when Blizzard "lost" the source code for vanilla WoW, and then private servers reverse-engineered it on their own time to make vanilla WoW work, and then Blizzard used those reverse-engineered codes for their legacy servers? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.

"The most popular items will be getting their HD textures first." The elated cheers of a million catboys in Limsa wearing Thavnairian Bustiers was heard across the cosmos.

What I want is for disheveled torn clothes Hildibrand to have the same textures and when he switches to normal Hildibrand, he jumps forward like 2 generations in graphics. That’s all I want.

18:12 Imagine playing MSQ durning rollout and see which character will die, judged by the quality of their model.

Everytime woolie talks about 14 I can see it in his eyes. He's gonna give in. One day.

Yoshi-P is a Primal and as long as we gorge him on prayer and aether, he and 14 will never die and I'm definitely not Tempered why do you ask?

Woolie learning an entire culture with mmos from pat

It feels like Woolie's begging and pleading for the answer to his question to be "yes" so then he can be assured that one day XIV will die and then Pat'll stop talking about it lmao

I don't understand Woolie's confusion outside of the assumption that he's just literally never paid attention to any other MMO ever. WoW has existed for almost 18 years. Everquest, Runescape, EVE Online, etc. FF14 isn't even close to the oldest one of these by a long shot.

I get Woolie's point about the engine/tech debt eventually reaching a breaking point, but like, that's already happened to XIV. It's how we got A Realm Reborn.

It is kinda wild that they've gone on for 10 years now with so few missed dates or delays. YoshiP must be a s ranked management master if he isn't killing his team while producing quality content on time

The unofficial FFXIV Dev motto is "Rage, rage against the dying of the light"

Woolie pining for the timeline where Third Strike still gets new content to this day

Its funny but also sad to hear the fighting game brain struggle with a game being supported and financially successful for so long and planned to be supported for as long again.

Also the reason why houses cant have glamour dressers in 14 is because other people can enter your house and apparently if someone else uses your glamour dresser, it would crash the server lmao

"If God wants me to quit he needs to yeet me himself" -Yoshida

the shadows changes was also due to yoshi-p: he was on the moon and thought the shadows there were awful, and brought that up to the team

MMOs are wild like that, yeah. Apparently Everquest is still getting new expansions and got another level cap increase back in December. Ultima Online's also still chugging along. And I think Square Enix was thinking about shutting down FF11 but Yoshida stepped in and stopped them from doing that so that people could still enjoy going back to FF11 if they wanted to (and presumably also because FF11 costs basically nothing to run and still generates a decent chunk of cash from subscriptions).

Runescape's a good example of this. Game's been running since the stone age, it gets engine upgrades and changes to the way the game plays but it is still the same game.

Think about it Woolie, FFXIV is, to date, one of the longest running live service games out there, THIS is why they all run around chasing that money.

YES! Another episode of Woolie versus MMOs.

As an outsider to MMO's who learns about FFXIV through the podcasts, I gotta give it to Yoshi-P and the team. It seems like a dream project that's been going strong for several years and will keep going strong for the forseeable future. With barely any corporate meddling might I add. The fans are happy and don't seem the toxic type (compared to some online focused games), the developers are passionate and don't seem to suffer from burnout, sales are high, updates and communication is constant and reliable. FFXIV might be the one online/live service games I know in my life that has everything going for it, and that's a damn admirable achievement amongst the game industry in this day and age. I may never get into MMO's, but I'll be satisfied with knowing a game like FFXIV exists.

All anyone has to say is Maple Story lol. That game will never EVER die. MMOs are just an entirely different beast.

Woolie. Comic books. When do you think DC is going to get tired of making Batman, and want to move onto the next thing?

Another thing to add about the console versions - the licenses are 'shared' across the entire platform. So if you owned the PS3 version, you also owned the PS4 version when that became available and if you own the PS4 version, you have a license for the PS5 version. So when the PS4 version gets deprecated, if you don't want to move to PC, you just literally have to buy a PS5 and you can keep playing. (Also the Mac version still exists, they just started cutting support for older versions of OS X)

The A.I. is really cool. FF14 being an MMO is why I've been hesitant on playing it. I only want the story so if they're gonna make it where I don't have play with people to xp. it I will jump in when that happens.

Maplestory 1 outlived Maplestory 2. Maplestory 2 had to compete with Maplestory 1 and it just couldn't. Maplestory 2 lasted 2015-2017, with Maplestory 1 2003-present. It has been out for almost 20 years and is still going and doesn't seem to be going anywhere soon. The Korean version only just got the 64-bit client with the global version getting it this summer

"FF14 will gain bot support so you can play it as a single player RPG" lets fucking GOOOOOOO

Yoshida will blow up the building with his loyal ninja dev team before he allows Squenix to ruin XIV like they did everything else.

Reminder that Jagex, simultaneously, support the running of both New and Old-School Runescape. All costs, server, patches, etc; Simply BUILT. DIFFERENT.

Did pat not tell the redemption story that was ARR to woolie? Yoshida literally and I mean literally took SE out of the fire.

Much like yakuza I got into ff14 cause of these guys and I can see why it’s so popular

Those FFXI updates are literally every month, btw. Not sure "few and far between" is accurate.

MMOs and specifically FF14 may be built different by always struggling with the ever progressing state of technology and engine issues in order to keep updating so peoples keep playing and all. (Out of left field i know but) Skyrim, however.. is built different in that essentially the same game will keep being re-released for everything ever and the community scene keeps it alive while fighting to keep mods up to date with the new versions they release using the same engine that has existed for 10 years

Dude MMOs are fucking invincible. NCSoft tried their damned hardest to kill City of Heroes and it resurrected itself from the grave better than ever.

After avengers and balan wonderland sticking with a broken engine slapchopped together getting updates every month or so is better than trying something new right now.

I wish the DBD devs had the same level of commitment to squashing spaghetti code.

2:35 Given that FF11 is still being played, there will be no next game, certainly for Yoshida.

Guild Wars 2's expansions cost the equivalent of the character slots they grant to a free account.

6:02 Team fortress 2 is jealous

15:56 of all of the archaic BS that I've heard about ffxiv, this is probably THE most amateur thing I've ever heard. I didn't know that the damage from 1.0 went that deep.

My only experience with MMOs was me seeing two guys in DC Universe Online ERP in general chat for 30 minutes, so if FF14 going for a decade keeps these kinds of people off the streets so they aren't a threat to society then that's a net positive

"It pays for everything SE makes... and it runs on BS." LMAO. What a gem.

Dude that trust system is gonna be awesome

Legends never die.

Weird spot to end the conversation but oh well

Look.... I think woolie wants to play guild wars 2, but something is holding him back.

Wait, so... YAKUZE APPROACHING? I support this.

I sorta think having main characters look a generation ahead is just good information for the player

I remember how the grand company system had you do dungeons with an AI-controlled party. Trust has completely replaced it, but there are still listed Grand Company ranks that have been inaccessible for 5+ years. Are there any plans to expand it?

I just started today with the free trial to check. Wish me luck...

Damn. The clip cuts right as Pat talked about the timeline.

It's crazy how much a solid foundation can keep a game alive. Yoshi P spear heading 2.0 has kept FF14 afloat for a decade now and no matter how bad WoW gets it has such a solid foundation that it's still better then 99% of MMOs even at it's worst. MMOs die left right and center but the good ones just keep chugging along.

With the advent of the concept of DevOps in 09, making and creating and supporting this kind of stuff has become much easier. Not "easy", especially at this level of development, but much easier. Automation of code coverage, Continuous Integration, Continuous Deployment. All of it takes the amount of effort needed to just keep up to date with the changes in the system down several notches. Will FF 14 go on forever? No probably not, Square will probably mismanage it. Technologically, it could.

MMOs are *the* digital ship of fucking Theseus.

I'll never not love how the FFXI devs had to buy used PS2 devkits in order to keep supporting the games, because they were the only things the game tools worked on

Everquest is still running.

The difference as to why Final fantasy 14 online is going to last for decades and decades, is because of not just a very dedicated fandom, but also the fact that no game can replace it, and as long as they continue content and a roadmap which they will, it will last forever, even when other new final fantasy games and remakes are out. Final Fantasy 14 online is going to be in a stagnant amount popularity, just like other franchises like Minecraft, League of Legends,Gta V(until 6),Csgo etc. Not only do these other franchises have super dedicated fandoms, but also sense these franchises don't have sequels, they can never be replaceable this continuing there popularity. This is something majority of multiplayer games and fighting games cannot reach most of the time so they go do in popularity, and Project L will likely be the one to push the door open, which is good but sad at the same time.

what episode is this from? the twitch vods arent archived sadly

Japanese devs a different bred. "I will die before I change my project!" is a mood I wish American devs had.

I agree with woolie, these games aren't finite. There is a point where the playerbase drops enough for it to be financially unviable to develop the initial Vs develop a new one

How is Pat "mind goblin" boiven, the reasonable one in this conversation? Woolie your understanding of corporations seems to be completely backwards. Creatives are the ones pushing for new things because that's what matters to them. Corps are only concerning with generating steady, and if possible ever increasing profit margins. Which historically has always been easiest doing the same thing over and over forever. Comics: let's just make batman remixes for 80+ years MMOs: let's just have expansions and slight updates to the same game forever as long as people are buying subs or micros. Movies: let's remake the same 3 marvel films over and over again because we perfected the formula for money. Sports: football hasn't changed for over a 100 years, people still go to see every single game in a season and obsess over the details. Probably the best example that is just sitting right under your nose. "Hey are we going to make Street fighter 3? Maybe later, let's just rerelease SF2 a dozen times with slight changes first until profits start to dip.

I want Woolie to be forced to look at EverQuest & more importantly RuneScape so it can drive him mad. Lmao

At what point will the meme win and we get Woolie VS FFXIV

Don't get MMO addiction kids.

I can only handle Pat talking about 14 for so long lol

Chad MMOs

And now part of the same FF14 staff is creating FF16, which is looking great!

Woolie once again regretting engaging Pat to talk about anything to do with and mmo

FF14 will never die lol. Ever

Woolie vs MONEY

Woolie, go watch the Noclip Documentary about FF14 1.0, it's actually incredible. Worth the watch even for those who don't play FF14.

Graphics doesnt matter. Still cant get over how monotonous the questlines are in this game. Its like watching a anime that is 70% filler.

take whatever pat says about ff14 with a grain of salt and whatever about other MMOs with a very large grain of salt

I GET why people like (or want to like) the game, its just that its NOT an MMO. Its a live service FF game with (A LOT!) of extra doodads and nobs for people who want to pretend theres an actual world of things going. At least until the illusion is broken completely when you try to do anything as a group and find out most of it is done BY YOURSELF.

Woolie has such a novel concept of product production. Woolie. Video games take *MONEY* to *MAKE.* You have to pay *HUNDREDS,* sometimes even *THOUSANDS* of people, for *MONTHS* of development time. Everyone from the project leads on down has a paycheck that needs to be fulfilled. Then, after the game's development reaches completion, you now need to pay for that game to be rated by the ESRB (or equivalent), then, you need to pay for getting that game to your customers. Best Buy, Gamestop, any store that needs to shelve a physical copy of the game needs a physcial copy of the game to sell and that means paying for the production of disks, and cases, and then paying for the shipping of these things to stores, and many digital marketplaces charge for hosting the digital copy of your game as well. Producing *ONE* video game takes a *LOT* of money. Once you've *SOLD* that *ONE* game you made, you don't get anymore money, unless you produce DLC, or, another game. The hope is that in selling a game that cost 1million dollars to make, to 8million people, you'll be able to make MORE than that money back. But. What if instead of selling *ONE* game, *ONCE,* you instead sell *ACCESS* to a game. Yes, rather than selling *one* copy of Street Fighter 2: Turbo *once* per person, you sell *access* to Street Fighter 2: Turbo for a monthly fee? So, instead of *ONE* instance of 60 dollars (60.00 total), you get *12* instances of *15* dollars (180.00 total). An MMO makes that dream a reality. No longer do you need to pay for the costly and lengthly process of game development. No longer do you need to wait to see your sales come in. No longer do you need to worry about wether the game will even sell or not -- you have a *RELIABLE* source of *BASE* income month by month from *EVERYONE* you sold the game to. To put it another way, let's say Final Fantasy VI sold 3 million copies. 3 million people can now play Final Fantasy VI. Whenever they want, for however they want, with full access to every feature of the game. Final Fantasy 14, if sold to those same 3 million people, will require of them to pay an additional fee, every month, to maintain access to the video game they purchased. *TLDR:* Why would I want to sell you a new game when I can have you paying for the game you bought 10 years ago, for forever?