To people wondering "where do I start with this classical thing?", have you ever heard of The Well-Educated Mind: A Guide to the Classical Education You Never Had by Susan Wise Bauer? I am currently reading it and enjoy it very much (although it is not specifically Catholic). She also wrote The Well-Trained Mind about classical homeschooling. Also check out John Senior. Cheers!
Urgh I agree with all of this!! I'm so tired of people acting like education is only for the sake of getting a job. I went to the University of Dallas (a Catholic school), and I felt I truly got an education. Great place. I wish other schools were like it.
What do you think of Steven's statement that, "the modern school is so far removed intellectually and morally from the gold standard [authentic classical catholic education], but it happened over so much time that few see the degradation or the inhumanity of the modern system."
It took decades and decades of attrition form the time of Leo xiii. John Paul ii addressed this. John Cardinal O'Connor did his level best. We need dedicated Catholic stewards of education to clean house. By all means address our historical setting; but watering down & 'dumbing' down education has proven disastrous. When more will form a Catholic Coalition of Clerics, Religious, Learned Lay Persons, and others - with Holy Spirit guided assertive, yet congenial & compassionate together we stand, then the infiltration of the Church with dubious philosophies, & failed anthropomorphic Utopian agendas will fall under their own weight. What I can't understand is, that with all of the incontrovertible evidence; why so many cower before those who purvey these things. EWTN's "A Wolf In Sheep's Clothing," which started airing in 2016, touches the tip of the iceberg along with other sources like Dietrich von Hildebrand's "_Trojan Horse in The City of God: The Catholic Crisis Explained._" This certainly is not a wacko conspiracy theory. It happened. And those who say, well yeah but we are through it for the most part, have certainly shown naivete`. Why can't a group of you younger Evangelical Catholics, get together with a creative expository work? That includes solutions. Peace.
I obviously agree (that's why I homeschool my children, following a Classical Education philosophy) and believe this was all engineered, all on purpose in order to create the sort of functionally illiterate population that is easily dominated. It's all about power.
Good show. Long story short, I removed my kids, back in the day when "privately tutored" was just getting started. I didn't have all the helps they have now. I used Designing Your Own Catholic Curriculum by Laura Berquist. For the older grades I employed the local community college which had a program, and, paid for experts in their field for the religion and history, etc. Fortunately, there was a great homeschool sports network. It was not easy, and I fell far short. I can, however, rest easy that they have the ability to think far ahead of their peers who went to the local Catholic and Public high schools. Far greater. They have been discriminated against to some degree, but it is worth it. Now way on God's green earth would I teach a child anything but a classical curriculum from day one. God gives us the out now as always....
First, I am a theology teacher in a small town diocesan Catholic high school (context). I agree and I don't with Steven's statement. Too many Catholic schools seem to follow the "public school plus" model. I agree that we have forgotten the real end of education--the formation of the human person and the buliding of a more fully human society. I also agree that most do not see the degree to we have slid into a utalitarian approach to schooling. I have experienced first hand how even withing Catholic schools people have a hard time seeing the issue and grasping what really makes Catholic education Catholic. Where I disagree is the sentiment that the system is irredeemable. There are many solid, thoroughly Catholic schools out there. (Check out the Duc in Altum Schools Collaborative for examples). I consider the school where I teach, is better than most, but I am eager for us to move to a much deeper Catholic character.
My kids did not get phones until they had a job and could pay for their own phone bill. Also, my boys did not learn to drive until they got their Eagle Scouting award.
I LOOOOOOVED this conversation!! This really helped me understand why sometimes having a conversation about faith can be a struggle with people I know are "highly educated", it can be very frustrating.
There's so much goodness and meat in this talk. I will need to watch and rewatch a couple of times to better digest these goodies. Thank you for this. I have recognized several things relevant to my study.
Fascinating! Matt, these interviews you have been doing are so valuable. Every single one has made me think seriously and strengthened my resolve in many ways.
They're also far better socialized than public school kids. This is because home school kids socialize regularly with people of different age-groups, whereas public school kids socialize primarily with their own age-group and so only have each other as gauges for maturity. So even the "but muh socialization" argument for public schools is bunk.
In the early portion of this discussion, Mr. Rummelsburg speaks to the Allegory of the Cave; he rightly points out that modern education is a shadow itself. Where he falls down is when Mr. Fradd asks him to open that up a bit: Mr. Rummelsburg missed this opportunity point out that it is the failure of modern education to teach the methods of inquiry to students before teaching them the details that have been understood by those who discovered the details themselves. This is the grammar and logic stages of the classical education and, without it, one lacks the basic building blocks to be able to pursue inquiry at the rhetoric stage; the pursuit of inquiry is how one becomes capable of determining that he is looking at a shadow on a wall. The methods of inquiry are the principle building block of education, and students are being robbed of this in modern educational systems.
This is so insightful and resonates well. I have been trying to put into words what my goals are for my kids and why I want to homeschool. I find myself drawn to classical education, using the pedagogy of Charlotte Mason. I’d love to learn about some resources to help me with learning more about the classical education, do you have a moment I can discuss with you or if you can send me a reply with some suggestions? Thank you!
Thanks for another insightful episode. Glad to see this show blossoming. Also bought a rosary bracelet and a pendant from your sponsor, Rugged Rosaries, and yes I did use the promo code. ;)
Loved your talk. I am a protestant public school teacher. I liked your insights about test taking not being the end all. I would consider teaching in a non public school but the public school teachers make more money. I have a family to support. I am going to dig out my Brother Grimm's and mythology books and shore them with the students. Thank you for intelligent talk about education. It was a pleasure to get away from the intense how to raise scores culture that exists where I work.
Towards 1:33:00, i can't help but hear that as an issue of our communities being so disparate that the idea of other adults taking care of your kids in your temporary absence is uncomfortable if not horrifying.
The point of cooking is, at best, to create something beautiful. The work itself is done well, the final presentation is arranged well, the family or community is together. That's the Italian answer. Hmm. This can be applied to education & culture, too. Goodness, education should bring as much joy as my grandma had with her whole family at her house for Palm Sunday.
I have recently been getting deeper into good literature and other culture, and I agree that as a public schooler I now feel like I was deprived of real learning in my childhood.
Congratulations on the new sponsor. I love Rugged Rosaries! As you say, truly masculine rosaries: handsome, designed for a holy purpose, built to endure. (This commenter received no compensation for his testimony.)
Chesterton might have said that Education is the passing on of Culture, but Lewis always makes that point in Abolition of Man. Which is an awesome essay on Modern Education and what it leads to (and in fact has lead to).
I've always described my school experience as a suffocating environment not suitable for growth. Like a bonsai tree. Carefully fashioned and pruned for the sake of an image, but at the end of the day it's still a stunted tree.
Ahhh 🙌 so true. Before staying home with my daughter, I was a public elementary school teacher and we were absolutely encouraged to make it fun and engaging first, then hope they pick up on *something* along the way. There's a shadow focus on "believing in every kid," but there is zero rigor.
A question I have is how do single parents (mothers) who rely on multiple part time jobs to make ends meet, and who can't be at home with their children offer home school?
It was brought to my attention by an astute observer of this interview that Chesterton may not of exactly said education is "The transmission of civilization" as I suggested. Although I doubt he would much object, here below is what he actually conveyed: In What’s Wrong with the World, G.K. Chesterton reminds us that when it comes to defining education, there is no such thing. “Education is a word like ‘transmission’ or ‘inheritance’; it is not an object, but a method. It must mean the conveying of certain facts, views or qualities…if they are handed on from one generation to another they are education.” He further illustrates that “education is not a thing like theology, it is not an inferior or superior thing; it is not a thing in the same category of terms. Theology and education are to each other like a love-letter to the General Post Office.” Public education ought to imitate the general post office and teachers ought to be like mail carriers. We are to deliver the love letters, not write them. So whether or not we homeschool, we ought to remember that it is God who gives the growth and that we ought to make our "children ready for the road, not make the road ready for our children."
I ordered two rosaries with the discount code 👍 one for my friend who's wanting to convert and the other for my Protestant Uncle who'll more than likely appreciate the Momento Mori rosary (he likes goth-looking stuff. A gun metal crucifix named "triple threat" and skull mysteries would fit his aesthetic)
We started homeschooling a year ago in May. Three days before the end of school year, I withdrew them from the local public school. We have definitely been enjoying it. I have to remind my boys when we leave the house to not act like savages, because there is a double standard and home schooled kids are held to higher standards, even though everyone know how bad public schools are. It seems like the world is always waiting for us to fail, so they can say "I told you so." The comment I get a lot is "I couldn't do it, I would go crazy!" Even from teachers and they'll add "I can teach other kids, but I just couldn't do what you do."
So true, all of it and it is mostly just ideological progaganda. If your name is a reference to Joseph Pieper's excellent work Leisure is the Basis of Culture, then you could hardly do better. Keep up the good work and ignore the world, the world is a liar.
@@stevenjonathan8811 I didn't know about this author, but I am so glad you are telling me about him! Thank you! I actually decided to use the title because about 12 years ago, when I decided to be a stay at home wife a relative called me a "queen of leisure". There have been many times that people tell me that I should get a job where they work, etc.
Queen of leisure My story sounds like yours. I did not send my child back to public school after the second year in. As a stay at home wife/mom, I have also been called a "lady of leisure." What leisure I wonder. My house is always clean (even with two young homeschooled children) and there's always a clean towel in the closet. I wouldn't call it leisure, but maybe the fact that I am extremely content makes it so. I don't know. Other moms also tell me they couldn't do it. It makes me wonder if they would have had kids if a 12 year long daycare didn't exist? I LOVE the company of my children and I LOVE being responsible for everything in their life, including education. I also used to hear that homeschooled kids are weird. But after meeting other homeschooled kids the only thing that was "weird" about them compared to public school kids was that they had manners and self-control. That's all. If that's what makes you weird these days I'll take it.
@@playdohsrepublic5149 What a confused world- there are so many myths concerning homeschooling, but they are little more than attacks. Diogenes (412 to 323 BC) said “Bury me on my head, for very soon this world will be turned upside down.” Chesterton eschews the cynic and echoes the saint in saying that “any scene can be more freshly and clearly seen when it is seen upside down.” Your endeavors are counter cultural and ironically just what our culture needs to survive.
I know this video is several years old now, but the information up until about 1:50:00 is still very relevant and insightful. Though, the political talk past the 1:50:00 mark does show why many of the problems still persist. One day, Christians will realize that in order to improve Earthly conditions, we must use Earthly means - namely laws and politics against our enemies.
Matt...I love this stuff bout your phone n your kids having phones! My husband and I still have flip phones and when the time comes that we have to 'up-grade' to smart ones what you have done with your sounds like a great option!
Two points I’d like to make. (And please! Disagree or engage with me-I’d love a discussion). There is no love lost between the public ed. system and myself. Nonetheless, the idea that it’s better to stay home with your children and do nothing is still better than sending your kids to public school rubs me the wrong way. I knew people who partook in this philosophy. These kids couldn’t read or write well-- and the ones that I am still in contact with cannot even properly type sentences using correct grammar and punctuation. (This is just one example). So I would heartily disagree that that is the better option. The other thing I wish to touch upon is related to the myth that homeschoolers are less prepared for college. From the conversation, it is made to seem that homeschoolers are best prepared for Catholic or small, private universities because they won’t be able to necessarily “answer all the ideological questions.” And he does say that it depends on what you do as a homeschooler and what school you go to, but in my experience, everyone I knew who was homeschooled was far more prepared to enter a university setting and engage real problems and questions. By and by I feel that his approach is too radical-and in the end, I feel like that is going to hurt the cause. Obviously, there needs to be major changes to create the best environment for children to learn and grow. But there are ways to integrate both aspects of the current and “classical” system (i.e. the school Rummelsburg is now teaching at, cited as an example).
Vera V, I love a good discussion too- I believe it is true that to do nothing at home is better than what happens at the public schools, at least in the poor areas in which I have lived. The damage to affluent families is far less apparent, but damage none the less. However, it is a fact that to leave kids home and do nothing is a terrible idea and of course doing nothing yields terrible results. I would not do that to my children or even recommend it, even though I do think it is less damaging than indoctrinating children in modern secular ideologies and methods. I think it is ok that we disagree about which is better or worse, but they are both bad options if we want our children to be properly educated, maybe we can agree on that. On your second point, it sounds like you more or less agree with me. Of course it does depend on what one does as a homeschooler, but in general, the homeschooled are prepared better for any kind of education. So your last point, either I am too radical or I am not. If you are right and there can be a compromise between authentic Catholic education and the secular model, as most Catholic schools have tried to do, then I am too radical. However, if the first principles of an authentic Catholic education are mutually exclusively from the first principles of a secular education then what I claim here is true. You can’t serve two masters. We would definitely have to spend more time talking about this and I am willing to do so here or in another forum. Let me know if you would like to have a discussion, I know I could learn a lot from your objections.
If you’re staying home and doing nothing, or think this is what we do, you’re completly missing the point. We do not do nothing, we raise kids, we educate, we care for our families. If you treat it like a job/fulfilling/ you will not be disappointed.
Really great video Matt!! Really enjoyable to listen to and really fascinating viewpoints on education. You’re doing a great job! Keep it up! I have a question though, where would you buy the Grimm fairy tales? I’m looking online but I find one hardcover with 600 pages and a paperback with 170 pages.. Any suggestions would help!
G'day mate Could you give us some kind of list of the best classics books in philosophy and in general I've read some in school but I'm 49 now born again CATHOLIC and last seven years I've spend in that kind of literature or CATHOLIC media so many titles and names sound familiar, some I know, some I know names but not works, some I've read but forget because of my past life so if is not much to ask, or to anyone reading this Thanks
The common core standards call children "widgets" in their explanation of the standards. In 2nd grade the public school was teaching my child Vinn Diagrams. That's fine but I felt like they were shaping the future of my child's life. I think if what my child decides to develop a skill in then Vinn Diagrams can be learned at a later date if it is necessary for his/her job requirements. Why learn Vinn Diagrams so early? It just seems like a manipulative system and almost everything about public school is crazy controlling. Their policies for absences and tardies are ridiculous. They counted my child a half day absent when I picked my child up from school 5 minutes early. Yes. 5 minutes before the bell rang. They are stupidly and ridiculously overly strict about being absent. It is because they don't want your child to miss ONE SINGLE DAY of social progressive indoctrination. If you think about it and read the school handbook, you'll realize how very sick and freedom sucking it all really is.
1:19:00 We cannot let the devil claim a whole medium of communication. There is a way to utilize the medium for good. It is more important to teach responsible use then it is to shun. Socrates did not believe in the written word, but we have claimed that medium through the Bible.
Why not have both? Mastery of the classical in an effort to push new heights in the progressive? Or, having the progressive in similar line with the classical?
The problem Eleazar, is that the progressive and the classical do not share first principles and are actually mutually excusive in their aims, means, methods, ends and every other aspect. Modern thinking would suggest it is possible and it even sounds good, but it is not possible even though it is far too often tried. You cannot serve two masters. Mastery of classical educaiton is to be desired indeed, but if the progressive model of educaiton is not fit for humans, why take it to new heights? Progressive education is actually anti-human, anti-intellectual and anti-anytying transcendent. It is an attack on the interiority of man by denying it exists.
A very minor point, but the prisoner in the cave is indeed released by others and then reluctantly dragged out of the cave. At least that is how it is in my translation.
I really hope you reply to this. In my coutry it is illegal to homeschool. What are we supposed to do in such a situation? And there are 0 authentic Catholic schools in my whole country...
You must be the authentic Catholic classical school for your children- use the public school as the counter lesson and spend the time you need to with them and educating yourself in the classical Catholic Tradition. It would be an exhausting bore to try to become an educational expert of today, but it is a solemn duty and joyful labor to acquint yourself with the classical tradition by coming to know the great Hebrew, Greek and Latin works.
I'm about 1 hour in . My instinct is to suggest that you read A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle and with that lense see if it helps you make useful distinctions. One trait I like about him is that he encourages you to go deeper into your own faith. Thanks for posting I particularly like the structure Theology, Philosophy and Sciences.
IMHO No Catholic should be reading Tolle....new age garbage and dangerous to some. Been there....that is a path to emptiness and ultimately hell. I hope you'll put down the Tolle and pray...then go read G.K. Chesterton's Orthodoxy. God Bless You!
Actually, I think this is not entirely true- the ones who call themselves "experts" are far less equiped than parents to educate- As St. Augustine calls the "order of love" parents have the most natural love for their children which is the matrix of all philosohpy and theology- the experts don't seem to know this. Look at the conversation below between me, a lowly 6th grade teacher, and a PhD in educaitonal philosophy. He is clueless and according to him emmanently qualified and by his standards I am not at all qualified, but I am far from the kind of clueless he is. Parents naturally educated better, but concerning the public schools and most Catholic schools, the bar is very low. As Chesterton would say, educating your children at home is a thing "worth doing badly." Please let me know if I can help.
Steven Jonathan I love this response Steven! I am striving to classically educate my daughter. I have multiple debilitating chronic illnesses that stem from a genetic disease. I am often in a condition where I so much more limited by these regarding her homeschooling. This statement is encouraging and it's what I remind myself when things aren't my ideal. The fruits I see in her doesn't hurt either!
@@allisgrace1313 May God bless you even more in your endeavors- I suspect it is a thing you will look back on with great gratitude and no regrets. The world will not do for our children what needs being done, and the world is not what it ought to be for our children and only the well ordered family can be what our children need. All is grace, indeed! Count on it for your precious daughter!
I agree with about 95% of what’s in this video. But the Catholic Church formally allows for evolution as the “means” by which God has brought us to this point. What sayest thou?
Nathan, that was just a poor explanation on my part- as St. John Paul II said, evolution is a compelling biological theory, insofar as it is used for an explanation of origins of the universe it is contrary to the Faith.
First, I'm glad I watched because it got me a nice discount on some pretty fine-looking beads (and they even ship to Oz!) Otherwise, I think this is the first interview of yours that I haven't really warmed to, Matt. The model of education your guest is advocating - or perhaps is way of advocating for it - seems to me really prideful. Through his whole talk there was a noticeable lack of humility that I found off-putting. The curricula he espouses wouldn't be of any help to a poor kid from a shitty backwater who wants to be a carpenter. And that's a problem for a Catholic educator, for obvious reasons.
Thank you for your observation John. I have had a problem with pride my whole life- I didn't suspect that here is was so evident, but sin isn't a thing a sinner usually sees so easily. However, to your point, I spent 23 years working in an impoverished area and what I espouse is excellent for the sanitation engineer, the carpenter, the philosopher, the banker, the janitor, and the scientist. If that is not clear then surely the fault lies with my own limits and inability to articulate what I intend. Or perhaps some in the audience have been steeped in certain ideologies that give one the impression that a complete and humaine educaiton is off putting. I actually do not know what Catholic educaiton is like in Oz, but I am sure of this, even if I can't prove it, an authentic Catholic Education is fit for all human souls.
