Hugh, you are by far the most thoughtful presenter on RU-vid. Just great content. Last week when the hack made its way to my viewing, I too spent way too long with the GH5 trying all of the scenarios, and I am happy I did, I found so much about the camera that I had neglected. Having done all of that, I would be much more interested in the way people (meaning Hugh Brownstone) actually sets up the camera to do actual work, which is for most of us the way we actually get paid. I find that the GH5 s flexible menu system and the various ways to set it up are wonderful and dizzying at the same time. Keep up the good work, super information as always, and thanks for helping me become a better film maker!
A thoughtful and thorough overview of the GH5, G9 movie AF operations, useful to know. It strikes me (a very occasional film maker) that in this case, improving technology has fundamentally changed they way videographers do their work. Not so long ago, I'm sure the movie making mantra was 'always manual focus' and 'my gimbal is better than your gimbal'. But now faultless video AF is expected, as is in-camera super stabilisation, old rules out the window.... Takes me back to the early days of autofocus, when photographers swore by their manual focussing skills, and the Novoflex long lenses. Now AF is 0.04 sec, and tracking , or it's useless, and a generation of photographers have never manually focussed. And so it begins for video makers...??
I know you put the time stamp on the video to skip to, but I just couldn't do it. There is something about you that keeps me engaged and I wish I could bottle it and sell it. I don't know what you have but you sir, should be on television
Good lighting, great audio, and well groomed facial hair LOL ;) Seriously though. It's amazing how much easier it is to enjoy a video when the audio is such that a person can comfortably talk in a relaxed low tone and be perfectly loud and clear. It changes to the whole energetic feel and tone.
its charisma and he means the things he said. and nah TV isnt so great, a Portal like YB with the Freedom to chose your content and short it...its way better then TV, most Times. But i would listen him on the Radio to^^
OMG! I can't believe I watched this whole thing. You did a great job, and I thank you. But the whole Panasonic hack thing has got to be put to rest. No camera is perfect, no focusing system is perfect, no exposure metering system is perfect, no scene is perfect, no post-processing software is perfect. Hugh, that just leaves you and me - and we both remember ASA - old fart! :)
I love that Max's "AF Whack-A-Mole" system has become a thing :-). Also, big props to you for correctly crediting YodaYeo. It's so off-putting how arrogant people rush to take credit when it's so simple to just give credit and work with each other's ideas while acknowledging so. Although your videos are long, they're always a pleasure to watch/listen to. Still waiting on that G9 review (I shoot photos with the GH5 and I LOVE it, but I'm considering the G9) and the final part of the Hasselblad series ;-)
Thanks for your hard work on this. I know it isn't easy to produce these videos and do the work you have to do to live. I'm looking at the G9 seriously, but can't help think that next year, they might have the auto focus figured out. While the GH series runs for a couple of years or so before an update, the G series are updated what seems to be yearly..... maybe......
Anthony Pierre To be fair: the hack does work better at 30fps. Sigh. I may have to do a follow up for completeness’ sake. I think first so have to decide how much I give up moving to 30. Double sigh.
Hugh, you say you have to consider what you would be giving up going to 30fps. What would that be? Please educate me on the differences. I know you personally have done the "work", so you know. The way you break down and explain things (as evident by your great videos), I can "understand" better, and on top of that, you cause me to think about what I do.
Yes, with stills too I find the G9 CAF inconsistent. With moving subjects like BIF mostly it works. Sometimes it'll claim a lock when it doesn't have one. Sometimes with either single or multi AF boxes it just fails point blank. Where I now know it won't do what I want is to focus on a distant bird against a busy background. It just loves to get that background sharp. Where it does well is to select a perched bird in a busy context in the fore- to mid-ground. Amazingly well. One pro has said the preference for the distant lock is a consequence of the CDAF tech, and that PDAF does the reverse. I don't really understand the custom AF settings, and what I thought I understood is countered by folk more expert than me. The G9 manual is no help. I guess Panasonic anticipated this by giving us four off-the-shelf combo packs. But as you say Hugh there are so many variables - and in an instant I might want to swap between those settings, and change the IS to panning, and the AF points from single to custom multi or the reverse, and so I'm standing there fiddling and the bird has flown. Well, that's an exaggeration - it is possible I think to customise a couple of buttons to swap from say C1 to C2 with those differences. I just need a spreadsheet to record the effects of one of those changes, and then move on to the effects of a second change and so on ad infinitum - as you found - before I can commit to collections of custom settings. In any case, looking at your vid and the work of Gordon Laing and Mathieu Gasquet - bless you all - it seems I should expect a pretty low keeper rate. And yes, BIF is as hard as it gets in this game, and you know what, I've just picked up a D500 because birders say and show that its AF is up to it.
Three Blind Men and An Elephant Productions Welcome. Well after six months in the hand I've made friends with the D500 in a way that I don't expect to with the G9. The Nikon does what the Panasonic falters at: single point focus on a perched bird in so-so light or group focus on a bird on the wing in mid ground against a busy background. The G9 is easy to get good shots with but only goes about 80% of the distance. The D500 demands skill (and says 'up you, I have a touch screen but you can't use it for menus' ) but takes you further. It feels like it was put together by a photographer. Cheers, Ern.
Oh that is one brilliant piece of review! Amazing, I am considering buying G9, as I am not very happy or I should say not happy at all with my current gear which is g85. A lot to think about after such a good review. :)
Ok. I watched the whole video. And, I didn't skip an single second. Your presentation was fantastic. I am in the process of analyzing which camera to buy to augment my G7, which is a good camera, except for the autofocus (duh). You have laid out a compelling argument to not write off the G9 or GH5 in favor or the Sony flavor of the day. Thanks!!! Great Video. Great Content. Great Presentation.
This video is just fantastic. It's neat to see how far panasonic has come so far. Can't wait to see their next generation of cameras a few years from now.
Great video, so well thought out and articulated. Your incorporation of NYC almost makes me miss living there... almost. Love visiting though- other than going cross-town, which has gotten worse by the decade.
Since I shoot 24fps and some folks said (though this runs contrary to what YodaYeo asserted) that there was benefit at 24, that’s what I tested. I mean: if multiple folks said 179 worked rather than Yoda Yeo’s 120...sigh. I’ll take a look at 30fps as a couple of you have suggested, and if the difference is dramatic, I’ll then think through if I’d actually mind moving to 30. Probably no biggie when/if I truly need AF. Even though... I haven’t missed AF for my work yet... [insert fork in eye]...
Hugh, what did you mean by flutter in the background. Did you mean where it was trying to hunt? I think the G9 did outstanding. I think the only reason it acted like it did around the 30 minute mark (30:20?) was because you had faces in the poster and it was trying to grab them. The previous clip where they were smaller in the frame didn't seem to exhibit the same behaviour. If that isn't what you referring to, my apologies. But I wasnt sure if that was just an oversight, or something else I am missing.
G9 IS great. No, I wasn’t referring to 30:20 as an example of flutter. And I am cautiously optimistic that the S series AF AI will do better which face/eye AF. I was referring to the signature of contrast detect systems, which is a laid back and forth as it finally locks on focus.
Hugh, yet again you have provided a valuable and insightful presentation on the highly technical subject of AF and tracking across a range of different cameras. You have raised the number variables involved in achieving the repeatable desired outcomes you require for any given piece of equipment you are using. While I don't wish to over simplify what is clearly a highly technical challenge I could not help thinking, is it a case of what you gain on the swings you loose on the roundabout when comparing various camera models against each other? That is not to say I would discourage the practice. Being a technocrat myself I just love to hear the technical arguments, the pros and cons and the practicalities of coming to terms with what ever piece of equipment you happen to be using at any given time. You spoke about the thousand and one variables relating to setting up the camera and on top of that you have lighting, weather, location and the operators biases to make life interesting and challenging. So where does that leave us when all we want to achieve is that great photo or video clip. Well perhaps it comes back to the operators knowledge of the camera's short comings and experience, which enables that person to ultimately create the masterpiece. If we were ever in the position of having a camera, which was able to overcome all of today's technical challenges would we loose our sense of achievement when producing that outstanding photo? The loss of the technical challenges we currently face may diminish our sense of achievement. That is in no way meant to take away from the brilliance, the creativity and artistry of the photographer or videographer. For me personally, I revel in the technical challenges, but it does not diminish my love of the artistry.
What a wonderful perspective, William. For me, the answer is: my number one challenge is story, my number two priority is artistry in support of that story, my number three priority is technical excellence in support of that artistry. And I have limited means. But I think you are right - in the hands of a professional who takes the time to know the camera intimately, the rewards are there. Thanks for weighing in.
My pleasure Hugh. Your presentations always inspire me to question and think or re-think about issues I would not normally consider. Thank you for inspiring me to go further in my thinking.
Hello, I'm from Brazil, and I want to congratulate you on your brilliant analysis of these two wonderful cameras. But the focus issue on both cameras is a terrible problem.
Awesoooome vid hugh! Great production value. Thanks for finally getting around to a G9 review I know I was one of the thorns in your side when it came to urging you to get this review done ASAP. I did end up picking up the G9 so far I love the camera and everything you're saying about the auto focus is spot on! (no pun intended or maybe it is intended?) Also picked up an A7rii (my introduction to the Sony ecosystem past the RX100 Mark 5) and opened a photography/videography related business. Keeping in mind that I still have the g85 these three cameras make for a deadly combo! And that 30mm 1.4 that you suggested to me... still one of my favorite lenses! If you get a moment and are able to reply let me know what you think about that combo of cameras for photography and videography?
Thanks for topic, encourages better workflow to know what to expect. Less frustration. Like comparison of past photographers to put it into some perspective too.
Hugh, I’ve been considering purchasing the G9 and I know you’ve been using/testing it for quite some time. I’m wondering if you are using it for some of your personal work or have you moved on to other cameras? I’m pretty familiar with the nagging autofocus issues plaguing this camera. Thanks much and enjoy your channel.
I purchased the GH5 when it first came out. I'm a blue collar guy and I worked so many hours to get the GH5 and I'm so bummed that the AF is so terrible. I use a gimbal and often film in low light and most of my videos look like garbage. Then the GH5s came out for better low light video. Ugh. I wish Panasonic did a better job. I like shooting in 2160p60
I imagine improvements in AF and low light must be very high on their priority list. We plunked down our own hard cash, too - but we use our a6300 for gimbal shots and where best high ISO performance is required. The new FujiFilm X-T3 may be your ticket.
try this; use the back button focus to lock on to a foreground subject, and as you pan the camera around and your AF has moved to a background element or whatever the subject you are shooting, release the AF button and let it focus then hold the back button focus to lock the focus once again until your AF point has moved to another subject on the foreground. Rinse and repeat. Great review. wish I can afford the G9 :P
Francis Ysip Sigh. I guess I really do need to look at back button focus. Bud and SONY Artisan Paul Gero told me the same thing when shooting the a7R III.
Great photography quote 26:30 "when we buy cameras, we're buying a package of tradeoffs, and it pays to be clear about what tradeoffs we're each willing to make."
Just want to reiterate that you need to go to 25, 30 (or 50/60 for a real AF boost) for the shutter angle hack to work - 24 p is a no go. Try it at 30!!
Been playing with this a lot on the G9, my best results were with 60p, Custom Video in "S" mode, SS 1/125 (less than 180 degree), AFF, Custom Multi with a small 5 square cross hair, Quick AF ON, Continuous AF ON, Using the stock "SET4" for AF speed / sensitivity. If you need tracking (instead of touch custom multi), then AFC + tracking lock (half press shutter to gain tracking lock on target, press joystick button to reset tracking lock, repeat until area you want tracked turns green), with all other settings the same as above - works better than face detection!
I think yoda (and those followups) said 24p seemed to not see much (if any) af improvement. Try 30p or 60p, with 179 angle and you will see an improvement. Hold that thought 👍 That aside, love your videos, calming, well presented and balanced.
Martin Pitt You are right. I thought since he’d said 120 but 179 seemed to be the resultant consensus, I could work with my preferred frame rate. Will do something at 30fps later today. And - thanks for the encouragement!
Wow! outstanding episode.Thanks for all your work. Yes I too am becoming weary being treated as a a "beta tester" for these top camera makers. Are we just spoiled or is fully functional video AF(out of the box) too much to ask? The tech is amazing and being "early adopters" comes with a few disadvantages. I am currently bought into Lumix and fuji for stills; am interested in seeing what Nikon comes out with , fully knowing it will be first generation vs. Sonys' 3rd generation. I don't want to wait three or four years for Nikon to get their mirrorless act together. (but I can't afford to change systems every 3 generations, either).
Hi, Honestly I have not been to the end of your interesting analysis. I also told myself what if if I could find more accurate settings?? could I really improve my results ( in photography matters) ?? But to me the answer is so evident. When I compare my G9 to my Nikon D4S during the photo shooting of a basketball match what I do professionally since 25 years is like comparing a bicycle with a formula one. I do like the G9 for many situations but what is the gain of an electronic view finder in this situation when an optical viewfinder is cristal clear,sharp?? Why struggling to stay under 2000 iso when you can easily go over 8000 iso with awesome results And most important the autofocus of Nikon is like thunder compared with the one of the Panasonic G9. No gain only pain !! So The G9 is not a camera for indoor and action photography. It works very well outside and as a very interesting versatility for photo and video. is light weight etc..
Hervė Bellenger Thanks for joining the conversation. As you are a pro sports photographer and have both cameras, looks to me like you’ve done your stress test for us - can you share some images?
Thanks for all the hard work on this video its very much appreciated. I have been wanting to upgrade from my Nikon D5300 for a while now the still photos are ok but the video which is now the most important factor for me is way below average for my requirements so for the past few month I have been researching mirrorless cameras, I never thought it would take this long to decide and I'm still undecided. I had my sights set on the GH5 but with all these issues is it actually a good camera to buy?
The GH5 is an outstanding instrument, but it has significant limitations in AF, more minor limitations in low light ISO. If you need outstanding performance in these two areas, you need to look very closely at the Sony a7 III.
I also wondered why Canon abandoned their eye focus tech. It wasn't perfect, but heck that was almost 30 years ago. Had they stayed on that technology it would be unbeatable..
Speaking of wetware, I think it should not be understated that you set the scene with background and lighting that put the face in high contrast. The black monitors behind you and your black top. Even the lamest AF would be able to track focus. I think that would be the greatest takeaway from the experience IMO. Also the interview you did with the panasonic guy, the faces were excessively lit compared to the backgrounf which fell away to almost black. I think that speaks volumes for those wanting to use AF in interview filming.
It’s a tough one for me. I desperately want 4K 50, good AF, good stabilisation and obviously healthy selection of lenses. While the autofocus is nothing to email the queen about, it still seems the G9 is the best. I hear of the Sony cameras often having overheating issues and I haven’t heard of a comparable Sony that can do higher frame rate 4K. Indeed the closest replacement for me would be the canon gx10 camcorder, but that’s going to be worse in low light, need a greater reach than 15x and fixed lens. As far as video goes it appears just putting up with the G9 AF quirks is my only option. Insightful video as usual and maybe the next generation of cameras will hit the AF sweet spot.
Hugh - hello from New Zealand. Your presentation above reminds me more of a religious sermon than critical analysis. (Not that it isn't the latter, it's hugely insightful.) I wanted to click to the previous page but I just couldn't without hearing your entire bit. You're hypnotic. Kudos for that, and I really find it both bizarre and absolutely fascinating that one should have to tease so much out of this whole autofocus argument. Can't one company just knock us all down and produce a camera at this price-point with some un-godly phase/contrast/DFD hybrid AF system, 4k 60fps+ shooting, IBIS, two card slots, headphone/audio inputs, touchscreen with an intuitive UI, all in an ergonomic body with good battery mileage? Oh please, someone make it happen before we all go mad...oh that's right, we already are, and that's why these corporate giants are devilishly successful in teasing the well-earned from our pockets as we search for some unholy solution.
@@3BMEP I'm with you on that. The one advantage to all this single-focused AF rumination among the young and up-and-coming is that all that glorious glass from yesteryear (I'm more Nikon) like 55mm 2.8 micros - what contrast and rendition, 20mm 3.5 and 2.8s - as sharp as one could ever need for ANYTHING, and the 35mm and of course 85 and 105/135mm manual Nikkors are going largely unnoticed on eBay. And do they perform? Of course! You don't have to worry about anything. My advice to anyone making videos is get your sound right, and then study the DOF of some perfectly good cheap glass, and shoot within that. Many thanks for your sound advice. I will follow your sermons.
It's like a breath of fresh air to get my head out of the forums, where features like full HDMI out, 10-bit 4:2:2, 4K 60p, a functioning remote app and headphone jacks are all but despised and be able to listen to someone with some uncommon common sense.
Thank-you for the massive effort you put into these videos, especially in light of other projects you may have. I realized that I am basically guilty of wanting you to make up my mind as to whether I want a G9, or move up to a full-sized sensor in the form of a Sony product. My interests are primarily stills concentrated at this point. Perhaps I’m too myopic to realize the importance of video in today’s market. Anyway, thanks again for your efforts.
Tony Burkhart There are valid reasons to go either way. We use Panny for our documentary work and at this point for most of our vlogging. Claudia is full time on the a6300 with a couple of fast primes and the new 24-105/4, mostly for stills. The a7R III is a helluva an all-rounder, but we’re still good at 20-24mp crop sensors for our work. Now, if someone said to me I could only have one camera for the rest of my life...
I’m confused by this review, the GH5 hack video kept being mentioned but yet you did all the tests in 24p? The focus hack video specifically called out they couldn’t get results on 24p. Their results are reported on frame rates other than 24p.
Some RU-vidrs asserted there was benefit at 24fps, and that's the frame rate I shoot. But with this said, I WILL check out 30fps. I won't do 60 because I won't shoot at 60 except for slow-mo.
So, if I grasped your excellent summary, if I don't care about the video AF (which I don't - I would be far happier with a G9/X-H1/etc that had absolutely no video capability at all) then for stills we have no AF problem to worry about?
Correct - except, perhaps, at the margin: multiple folks have said stills AF doesn't work as well as top of the line Canon, Nikon or Sony at basketball games. OTOH, I had NO problem with the GH5 (from which the G9's AF is derived) shooting a horse race at Aqueduct. See my earlier reviews.
justinspirational synchro only available on 5, but changing shutter speed is simply another way of expressing angle - though it begs the question “how can this be so if the cameras using rolling shutter instead of global?”
Perhaps a dumb question BUT why does my IPhone 7plus have better AF than any camera I’ve used? I assume DOF has a little to do with it but seriously it hardly ever fails even when videoing sports in a low light gym.
As i have seen in the comments you already know, that there's a little downside to your 24 fps recordings and the Video AF :-) I got a GH5 myself and just trying an learning with this camera. After the workaround, i, with my noob eyes and skills can't see that much difference in AF for vlogstyle videos anymore. Not in comparison to many other known Canon vloggers. Perfect is nothing in this world. We all have to fiddle out what suits our needs best. Great video, as most off yours i watched till now. Please keep up your quality and style.
A few points: 1. No camera system's AF is perfect including Canon. 2. AF hasn't even been the holy grail from my perspective for very long. It's only in the last 3-5 years we've even had it. 3. The only reason it's become the central focus is really because of Panasonic's gh5 affordability. The Sony a7s ii AF system is *worse* but literally is never complained about. There's a correlation between people's willingness to spend more and as a consequence accept *more* responsibility for ensuring the camera focuses on the right thing 4. To a large degree the responsibility of this obsession falls at the feet of vloggers a very vocal contingent of users who do not represent all of us. I think at the end of the day *we* have to take ownership of what the camera does instead of constantly drubbing manufacturers who continue to give us more and more features for less.
God that rolling shutter on the A6300 is terrible. All they need to do is come up with a speed booster for the iPhone and we won’t need full sized cameras anymore 😂
Thank you, I do too watched the whole thing, yes its long, but by now, I spend at least a year in same vicious circle - Panasonic - Canon - Nikon - Sony, and no success. It is not probably as much technical information I am getting from this as much as therapeutic treatment. I've develop "out-of-the focus" phobia. I never seen that much out of focus images before, as I see now. I start considering to report myself to mental institution. But thanks to you I know now it is not me. Thank you. So I probably will buy G9, Sony apparently is not weathered enough, and I will be using it on the boat.... Sorry, I almost start to run another run-around. So I'll stop here .... Later.
Poor AF means I don't buy Panasonic. Please fix AF in your next camera! And I can't buy Sony cause I want 4K60. And preferably also with 10bit HLG HDR. So for now I buy nothing. I just wait. And wait. I have tested Canon GX10, their new camcorder with 4K60 Dual Pixel AF, I guess it's usable but with my initial tests wasn't as sharp and I guess 8bit only no-HLG not as good colors as I would like. I hope Panasonic releases a new camera soon with perfect AF and 10bit HLG at 4K60. I hope Sony a7S3 and a6700 comes with 4K60, perfect AF, unlimited recording, 10bit HLG. I hope Canon comes with new 4K60 cameras with perfect Dual Pixel AF, perfect 10bit HLG. I am hoping and waiting a lot. I don't like the record length limits cameras have, I often film longer than 10 minutes (G9 with 10min 4K60 limit makes it absolutely unusable for me) and I also often film longer than 30 minutes for sure.
I want 8k 120fps 10bit... and of course AF, cause that's the way to go in video now... I guess I have to wait and quit filmmaking and maybe pick it up once such cameras are released. Otherwise I won't be able to tell my stories...
i think most important thing is who is using this high-tech equipment in the right way. And then at least to use the "super dupper new lightroom Profils" to give a first looking good picture a thing of mobile-phone touch. Is this the way to work today with a high-tech camera like this? I don´t understand the discussion, it´s every time the same, it´s better to go outside make good pictures with this good cameras instead of blablabla ...... Kind regards from Stuttgart Germany
I dont get the whole AF thing for video. I can see and love using it when taking stills but..... Video? Even the Canons aren't fast enough, my hand is faster and precise. Now, your (first)test with the GH5 they are just as fast as my Olympus M1 2. Which for me is plenty fast (unless you are doing sports) I think we are waiting for Godot.........
I’m sorry, I just don’t get all the demand and need for incredible auto-focus??? I manually focus everything I shoot…and it’s dead nuts on…auto focus on ANY camera will never deliver 100% of the time. Auto focus is for amateur videographers…it’s training wheels. Learn to use your cameras people…focus it yourself.
I have an A7R III, A7S II, and A6500, and my autofocus has been amazing and low light performance is the best available and image quality is amazing and there's a big selection of lenses available including new Tamron, Tokina, Samyang, and 9 new Sigma FE lenses just announced, and my life has been easy and pain free and *everything is working*... Life is short and it goes by in the blink of an eye, so why put yourself through all this irrelevant endless problems on the Panasonic system? What is the purpose, and what is the point of it? What do you get out of it? It's irrational and illogical as if you have some kind of emotional attachment to stay with something of lower quality because of your special sentimental feelings.
