Monster Hunter: RNG Decorations VS RNG Charms - Which Side Are You On? 

I made a mistake when calculating the odds of getting a Frostcraft 3 Wex 2 Charm with slots. *The actual odds are ~0.000076%* The mistake I made was not taking into account the number of A tier skills into the equation, which are 44, that introduces another two 2.3% chances of occurring in the equation (which I rounded UP to 3% for the sake of simplicity, which means the odds are even lower but I feel these odds are enough to illustrate the point).

If RNG decos are coming back. I'd love the ability to have a failsafe mechanic to target specific/rare skills. Like a meter that once filled is a surplus of rare decos that have a higher chance to be rare. Link it to the Meowcinary equivalent in this title.

I dont mind rng decos on one condition, they can be equally farmed from all monstets. Having 1 or 2 event monsters as the only effectice farm for decos is a huge red flag in my book

How about neither? Crafting both is IMO, the best path forward. I mean, there is already enough RNG in the drops that I don't need to add any more. If you are worried that there is nothing to grind then, you can have a grind without it also being heavily RNG based. Want an end game charm that's BiS for your build? Cool, you'll need 5 mantles, 10 gems, and a bunch of high tiered monster parts. That's a huge grind, but at least you are, at some point, basically guaranteed to get what you want. Unlike either World, or, Rise especially.

Rng decos has crippled my world experience, no matter how much i farm i only get decos that are useless to build i strive for, it was never a problem in rise. Being able to craft both would be optimal

I am on the side that I can craft both.

The answer is simple. Craft and RNG at the same time. Craft simple versions, RNG for the multi skill versions. Lets us craft a full normal build and then optimize with the RNG ones to push skills to the max.

The calculations are somewhat misleading/confused and misinterpret the numbers. Yes, the chances of getting the charm you want are lower because you're looking for specific skills in a pool of more skills and variations. That doesn't make it harder to get a good or even great charm, it only makes it harder to acquire the very specific charm you're simming. But that's not a 1 to 1 comparison to a single gem, since in order to make your absolute theoretical best build you need multiple gems of varying sizes and rarities. You're comparing it to a single attack 4 or whatever gem, and assuming that because a single gem is easier to acquire, it automatically is better, ignoring the other variables. EVEN THEN, you could get a different charm that has all the stuff you want + extra or + a skill you would want and can replace in your gear with decos. The focus on the rate to acquire a very specific charm is flawed because it doesn't follow the same curve or interaction as RNG decos. It also ignores acquisition factors and time investment, but that's a different topic for another day. I wouldn't care if RNG decos can drop from bosses as long as you can also craft them with reasonable effort. Not like in MHW where it takes an arm and a leg to craft a small handful of them. Bottom line is that regardless of system, less RNG and more agency in acquiring what we want/need is paramount.

RNG Decos with every Deco available to the melder. Doesn't matter how much points they cost, at least you have a "pity" mechanic.

I don't like RNG charms because they are more difficult for me to organize.

Ultimately, we can have our opinions on what systems we prefer, but... if you don't have attack boost 4, or whatever permutation of a charm you want, you can get away with less attack boost or comfort skills in the meantime. If you need and don't have bow charge plus, guard up, etc., well, too bad, until you do, if ever. There's no working around it. Your build is just not online until you have the rare decos you're missing. Pray for good RNG.

Let's burn it all down RANDOM EVERYTHING all things are random and you can never get anything you want. LET THE SALT FLOW!

The charm example misrepresents the situation. Builds have to take into account where all skills can come from: Decos, charms and armour pieces. Ruri's analysis ignores this and just assumes you need god skills from your rng charm, but you could roll all quality of life on it with slots, and just slot in the god skills with decos. That's why that system is more fair to the player. Charms in an rng deco system have been very limited, because you can only make so many craftable combinations for charms. So then players are limited to a few armour pieces to get certain skills, which is less player friendly.

RNG charms anyday, but make them drop at the end of the quest.

I prefer RNG decos, but I also like bad luck prevention systems. The state of the melder at the very END of Iceborne's updates was fantastic. All of the most valuable decos and monster gems/mantles could be melded but the cost to do so was very high. I like that. Allow me to earn random decos from hunting, and then after a while if I didn't get one I need, I can bite the bullet and eat the cost to craft it. But preferably don't make me wait a year or two before getting the system in place. Don't make all decos meldable, just the big ones like Capacity Boost, Bow Charge, etc.

as hardcore MH no life, i rly dont care. just dont make me sit in town after every 10quests and force me to choose mats for melding... also please no re-melding mechanics. i just want to keep the stuff i will use, i dont want to get lost in tons of useless stuff to micro manage, i want to hunt monsters, not to be amazon charm/deco worker. also plz guys dont forget that most of the iceborne problems were actually connected to poorly made RNG system. if bow charge+ or guard up would only appear on charms u would also hate it in sunbreak

I'd honestly prefer to go back to the talisman system we had before 5th gen (mainly the getting talismans from quests without needing to meld).

I personally liked MHRise's approach. I hated how I basically went through World and Iceborne with trash skills because of deco RNG, while in Rise I was able to get a decently comfy build even before Sunbreak. It's not about having the best build, but havinh a build that doesn't suck ass because of RNG.

Personally I prefer RNG Charms, but either way I think its too early to feel any type of way about Wilds so far. I think we will get so many changes to the skill system that it will turn out much better than both Iceborne and Sunbreak!

Craftable decorations is by far the better system. With craftable decorations you can always make a good build and then the rng talisman simply optimises it. With rng decorations you're fucked if the game doesn't drop what you need. The craftable talisman can only compensate for one missing skill. This is particularly important for the build defining decorations like Bow Charge Plus. Craftable decorations also encourages you to hunt a larger variety of monsters. With World I just spammed the easiest T2/3 investigation monster I had available at the time. If they go back to rng decorations I'd want to see some sort of pity system to ensure you don't get screwed by the rng. Maybe an item you get every 30 (30 sounds about fair to me, the devs can figure out the exact number) hunts that you can turn in to any decoration of your choice at a melder type npc. There needs to be some sort of anti-rng system in place to prevent the player getting screwed over.

I think in either case you need something to make sure you aren't SoL. I.e. rng decos you need some special quest or combining or something to guarantee you can get a deco you need. Or charms it would help if you could upgrade them somehow so you could make an ok charm into a good/great one.

RNG Charms was pretty ok. I had sets in World i wanted to make, but i was missing important Decos even after 600 hours in my main playthrough. I was able to experiment more with not Meta but fun sets in rise. A missing charm was ... What ever because its just a few skills that are not optimal, but in World i had entire Skills that are realy important missing compleatly.

I preffer rng charms, because not getting the right charm may prevent you from min maxing your set, but not getting the right decos will break your build.

Charms. Genuinely shocked this is even a debate lol. Charms are nothing more than nice bonuses to your build while Decorations make up the bulk of the build you're going for, it should be obvious (at least to me it is) which one is more annoying to deal with. That being said, the whole RNG system for both is heavily flawed. Neither allow for true target farming which is just frustrating to deal with. If RNG Decorations are back, there should be ways to target farm them so that the RNG doesn't feel unfair. The RNG in World absolutely sucked too, can't ever convince me it was well-designed.

There's a few part of the equation that I think people tend to not think about when comparing the systems: 1. World had the ALPHA vs BETA versions of armor, where ALPHA had more innate skills but less armor, vs BETA having significantly better slots. Since the ALPHA versions typically had comfort skills instead of core skills, there was generally a preference towards BETA armors.... which meant your build was highly reliant on RNG decos to build. This effectively made your armor about the same as curious crafting a god set of armor. 2. How obnoxious the talisman farm was in Sunbreak is heavily dependent on what weapon you are using. Switch axe was very tier-2 hungry for armor skills, but *all* if it's core skills were craftable as decorations. So instead of having to farm for a hyper specific talisman, I just had to farm for any talisman that gave me the most tier-2 slot equivalent skills (and so, my build could be more-or-less complete pretty easily). If you need hyper-specific skills (in your example case of Frostcraft for gunlance), you either had to use Velkhana armor (which may not be efficient for your weapon with it's slots and other skills), or pray to RNJesus with qurious crafting and talismans.

I feel that I got way WAY luckier in rise compared to world. It took until after Shara until I got any good damage decos such as tenderizer and Artillery, but in rise I got pretty decent quick sheath and rapid morph talismans in base and decent attack 3 and rapid morph in sunbreak around 10-20 full melding pots (although I have just reached Qurious melding so I still have a chance to get bad rng). This video made me want to determine if I really am luckier in rise so as a rough estimate, I went through my item box and counted every monster plate, gem, and mantle in each game. About ~190 hrs in MHR:S with 104 rare drops, and ~330 hrs in MHW:I with 97 rare drops. Not exactly rigorous scientific evidence but It's kind of crazy just how much luckier I am in rise than world.

I would much prefer a "charm that is not as good" + solid build, over not having over half of my build thanks to 0 rng deco luck

I'm definitely on team RNG Charms/Risebreak style, because a suboptimal charm is less detrimental than not getting the decos you need. But I will concede that Iceborne did improve on the RNG Decos a bit, and the distinction between weapon, armor and utility skills in Wilds means I'm not really "disappointed" that it seems to be RNG Decos. So really, I'm fine with it either way.

The problems with "god charms" is that people go with the mindset of having the skills and slots of the charms as being integral part of their main build. But, in reality, the charm is a bonus to your main build... The slots is what you must be aiming for... This will effectively help your main build. And the skills are bonus for you, the may help or just be there. You will have no problem building the set you want if you stop trying to get "the same one that speedrunner is using so i can be a god too". Doesn't work this way 😊 But, RNG decos??? Good luck really building what you want... And not having to use this or that because you don't get the decos...

I think i lean decos but that be based on my dislike of the melder system, i prefer getting the random thing after a hunt, going to the melder is annoying

In world it took me over 600 hours before I got an attack jewel (other than the freebie given to us) …. I’ll take RNG charms ANY day

This is not a debate, there is one correct answer, but that answer will depend on what you are looking for. If you hate RNG you will prefer the side that has the least (Charms), if you enjoy RNG and want it to be a bigger portion of your gameplay, you will enjoy Decorations more. The question isnt really which one is better, the real question is how much RNG do you like, if you dont like that at all, neither option will be satisfactory, but the closest to that, is the latter, and from what most people say, the lesser RNG there is in Monster Hunter, the better, so the answer to this is without a doubt, charms.

I prefer charms, I never needed a god tier charm to make my build, it was always a complement and not mandatory, but decorations are mandatory for a decent build, unfortunately, the wild decorations will no longer be by craft, but let's see how the RNG will be in this new game

if i had to choose: charms if there are dedicated pools for monsters that make sense (fire with fire ice with ice etc) then i am on the side of decorations without a doubt because that will GIVE ME A REASON to fight ALL of the monsters in end game i am fucking sick of teo and just teo man. rise just has the upper hand in nearly every single way. wilds can fix this though because rise isn't perfect by any means crafting them both would be heaven though. idc if they need hard to farm parts. i get to go and fight all of the monsters in end game. that's just a plus in every single way lol

I can see people voting for random decorations because they think World > Rise lol. I despise when there's too much RNG so having to farm deco instead of charms is imo a bigger annoyance, as it seems for me that decorations are more crucial for builds than charms. I always found ways to get around a build when I don't have the right charm, as long as I get one with enough slots. But I'm not fighthing other those who prefer decorations, as you mentionned, it feels like most people wanna get as few RNG as possible so let's hope for the best!

the thing about negative skills, is that sometimes getting the negative version of something would synergize with a different skill, like building negative critical eye, to synergize with brutal critical.

My opinion leans towards rng charms, simply for the fact that it plays a smaller role in the build, but would prefer to receive the charms at the end of quest instead of melding them.

You missed that the quantity of decorations, 10 decos of 0.22% is hard than ONE charm of 0.08%. But both can be influenced by how many chances you got, like the deco drops or how easy to meld them, so the chance are not easy as you mean that charms are harder.

I'd say I'm on the team of having RNG charms. I feel like decorations make up the meat and potatoes of a build so having more control over that yields an armor set in a more controlled fashion. Charms have always felt like the cherry on top for a build to just add a kick to the overall performance. Granted that's just me in my experience over the years.

Rng charms all the way because if I want a specific skill or to improve something on my armor I can just craft it with charms giving me a boost and allowing more space and more skills

Rng decos rewarded you in the long term. After you farm long enough you can make the perfect build. Instead of wasting time and resources on that 0.001 god charm. With rng charms you can make your build 95% done with craft decos and will always chase the carrot on a stick god charm till the end of the game. One rewards me with me putting time into it, the other waste time and doesn't stretch my gambling addiction I would rather there wasn't rng weapon. i would want a long struggle to farming materials for weapons.

i still remember how it took me 600 hours to drop 1 capacity decoration

Fix the RNG for either side by incorporating a pitty system where if you farm x monster after 200 kills (in mhw it was tempered teostra) you get a voucher to turn into any rare deco or in the case of the sunbreak charm system have an increase in the rng where you increase it to where a player has a 85% chance to get a god charm or high tier combo charm like wex 2 and attack boost 3 with 2 level two slots or frostcraft 3 with Crit boost 1 and 2 level 2 slots charm after 100 or x melds or whatever the charm farm system is. In mhw, I and many players didn’t get rare decos like a frost deco 4 until 1K hours and the same applied to decos like the wex/vitality or divine blessing/Crit boost or maintenance/critical boost deco. Majority of people who want the deco rng system are ones that had it ez with getting attack 4’s or 2nd Expert 4 or handicraft 4 decos was like nothing, while other players were practically “punished” for not gettin such decos until putting in 1K hours, and yes the same can be said for rng charms.

Rng charms is better but not the way it was implemented in rise but they way it was in 4u. In rise, charms were rng only through melding. In 4u, it was rng through melding, mining, and as quest rewards which made it feel more natural and less taxing to engage with.

Maybe we should ask the devs to use both RNG decos and RNG charms. That way everyone can be mad.

Rng charms 100% gives more control

The problem with rng charms is that getting the perfect one for your build is sometimes so abysmally small a chance that you will have all the random decos you will ever need before you get it. A single deco simply has less variables to it than a single charm. In world/iceborne they did introduce their double stat decos which does make them slightly less deterministic than previously, but getting all those is still more likely than the perfect charm in most cases

I feel like people in this debate also seem to judge which is better based on their experiences with the endgames of World and Rise. Yes, Rise's endgame Anomaly grind is far more tedious and time-consuming than World's Grinding Lands, there's no contesting that. However, where Rise shines brighter is how much more customizable builds are right down to the charms, and this is where I feel RNG charms are better than RNG decos. Before the Amatsu update, sure it was hard to get the coveted "God charm" but charms overall felt like an added boost to your loadout instead of something crucial. Say you need a level of Razor Sharp, but have nowhere on your armor to fit in one more decoration. This is where the charms come in, since at least one of them is likely to have a slot available. And if that same charm happens to have something like evade window or even divine blessing, that's a nice added bonus. After the Amatsu update, we got Vigor and Cyclus melding, the former shitting out God charms all the time and the latter even letting choose which skill you want guaranteed on said charms. Now build variety is through the roof. While these specific meldings do require that you engage with Anomaly grinding, it's this degree of control where I feel RNG charms outdoes RNG decorations. World, on the other hand, offers almost no other alternative to increasing your chances of getting specific decorations. The best you can do is grind event quests that guaranteed Ancient Feystone drops and *pray* it drops the specific decoration you need to finish your build, and some of the most coveted decorations have some diabolical drop rates. I have 600+ hours in World and have grinded some Ancient Feystone quests for hours and still have yet to get something like an extra Critical Eye 4 jewel apart from the one they give you for free once reaching Iceborne. In short, RNG charms feel like a nice boost to what is likely an already tailored build, whereas RNG decos can make you feel like you're missing the tailoring tools. The only way this wouldn't be nearly as egregious as World is if, like Rise, they give us some degree of freedom in choosing what kind of decorations we can get. Otherwise, World can keep RNG decos. RNG charms all the way.

Definitely rng farm for me and it’s not even a question if I have to choose one over the other. I like to min-max my builds (but not overly hardcore) and I just feel like it is easier to get all the skills you want when you can craft decos, which basically takes up half of your builds. It’s also very flexible when you get the shit end of the stick. Rng charms have slots so even if the skills on the charm are shit themselves, you can still make do with it if they have good slots. Meanwhile a shitty deco is a shitty deco with no ways around it and craftable charms don’t have slots. EDIT: I’ve heard before that getting a god deco is easier than a god charm. Whether that’s true or not, by the time you get one you probably already have enough decos/charms to make a full build and any improvement that your godly pc will give will be very minuscule anyways. Unless you’re a speedrunner, I personally don’t see the point

I think that the biggest issue with Iceborne's deco system was the obscenely huge pool and decorations taking up a much larger proportion of your skills. An OK charm can carry you much further than getting 0 decent decos. IB was kind of infamously grindy. You beat shara then grind up your guiding lands and event quests until MR 65+ then it's MR 100. Yeah saffi, KT, raging brachy, alatreon, fatalis, and furious rajang could be done sooner, but those are basically impossible to do solo unless you're uncapped/augmenting which is later. I think you hit on something super important in the discussion about how skills worked in world/rise. You have a billion skills and the power differential between maxed out crit and fresh save is huge (like 5 min hunts and 20 min hunts). When I'm spending 20 minutes in a hunt and get 3 venom decos or w/e it feels like the time spent was completely wasted and that's half of my time playing for the night. If wilds can bring down the power gap between a fresh endgame build (all monsters of that tier available and BIS armor crafted but no good decos) and a fully optimized one, the grind will feel less backbreaking. That's my biggest critique of Saffi and KT, you spend 30-45 minutes on this hard fight and in the end you get...nothing. Big however though, you're taking the most charitable version of Decos, which isn't the version that I'd imagine most of the community (not the invested community) bounced off of. The largest negative feelings would come from people who burned out of world / IB earlier than the bad luck protection was implemented. No matter the system, there needs to be bad luck protection, and the decos shouldn't just come from a couple of monsters. In base world it was grind tempered elders all day every day to get the decos you wanted if jagras wasn't up.

Since there seems to be RNG decos in wilds from the TGS footage, i hope there are different pools of decos that drop from certain monsters in the way you would need their parts to craft. i.e. hunting rathalos would drop fire attack, attack boost, wind res, etc. because those skills are associated with the monster and would be included in its armor set. It would also be cool if there was some sort of subtle visual of the equipped decos and they could be made of the parts from the monster it came from. Seems like a good compromise from the standpoint of wanting the targeted farm.

One thing I would love to see is a distribution of skill use across Risebreak and Worldborn. Specifically on the use of "Atk up", "Weakness-Exploit", "Crit eye" and "Crit boost". (also "Health boost" for World) as those were the most desired skills for min-maxing. I personally see a problem in those skills as - A) every weapon-type can use them. (they are universally good) - B) they are not "mandatory" but FEEL mandatory, especially ATK UP - C) they have high Levels. (as such will need many slots to max) ATK-up is a min-max and optimisation Decoration yet players seem to feel like they are pressured into NEEDING it to be beat certain parts of the game. (If people complain about not getting it, then it does seem like it is a NECESSITY for them to have it) I know this will likely not happen, but I would love to see the skills removed (entirely). Instead adding more variety, ease and options to weapon upgrading via Augmentations or Manipulation. Similar to the Safi Weapon Upgrade System which had a small to medium pool or skills to choose from and if you had a "worse" version of a skill you could upgrade it to a better version up to a max. (without having to do a siege ofc. it would be more interesting having to use items from the monster the weapon is made out of) I genuinely believe that this would also open up a greater build diversity as players would then have more space for more "situational"-dmg boosts and QOL gems. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On the matter of Charms RNG VS Deco RNG. The question we should rather ask is what should the endgame system be? In Rise you had to do one quest to gain one charm but it had (apparently) some better chances to be the skill you wanted. The player had some Semi-influence. In World you got many Decos from one monster (especially at endgame) but they were mostly random, with Stronger monsters having a chance to drop better loot. You could meld them down for more chances but in the end were still entirely random. (aside from a few you could meld regardless) Rise had Quiro Investigations which gave early game monsters about the same Power level as Late game monsters and the Quiro debuff was pretty good in as it made the player behave more offensively as healing from items was reduced but hitting the enemy gave health back. However getting a good investigation, sorting thru them all and getting to the required level is a slog. Then there was also the Quiro Crafting (I personally liked) which gave a lot for new options to min-max but became rather painful once you had multiple builds. World had the Guiding lands, It was our first view at what an open world with multiple Environments at once could be like. However one could only level up 3 out of 6 areas to max (i've heard info that one can upgrade all now?) but that also meant that, unless you had a duo partner, getting the items you needed from one monster felt painful as you had to de-level one area and max out another. Also, regardless of how good the Guiding lands were, they were only ONE area and eventually you may simply grow bored of farming the same are over and over. (ofc. for decos you could also just take on some other Tempered Quests which arguably dropped more decos.) Gameplay is also an important factor, Rise had much faster combat compared to worlds. As of this point the Community is pretty split between the more arcady, fast paced gameplay of Rise and the more slow but impactful gameplay of Worlds. In the end it boils down to: what did you enjoy more? If you enjoy the grind in one more then the grind in the other WILL have an impact in on HOW you feel about the grind, regardless on how the grind actually was. I had a Duo Partner in both World and Rise, but since we could play of each other much better in World and could max out all 6 areas we could enjoy the guiding lands with basically no downside. I also played GL Long Shelling Charged Shells and never had the pressure of ATK-Up, Crit eye etc. (at least not on the main build, I did make a HBG Pierce build eventually) as such i never had to hardcore farm Decos and just Tagged along after I got my Artilley and Hard Resistance Decos. Compare that to Rise where I made a charm, got an OK one, felt no desire to continue and and just focused on Quiro crafting instead. TLDR: A more in depth statistic of "What game did you enjoy more", "what RNG System did you enjoy more" and "Skills you used" would be interesting to see if there are any overlaps that heavily suggest a bias. What you enjoyed more will have an influence on what grind you enjoyed more.

The best option i believe would be random RNG for both to drop freely & a craftable version of each that just costs a lot of materials to make. That way players can have both options & while they could get them freely while grinding for materials, if they get the materials first then they can just craft what they want.

RNG charms as that gave me deco slots to complete my build. I always saw the skills on charms as a bonus. I could build around it or not. The slots however acted like the “upgraded” charms in world where I could slot in said skill and have the skill I wanted, on top of the “bonus” skills

I'd still be on the side of non-RNG decorations because you use way more decorations that you do charms, especially considering the end-game. For the standard "all purpose" skills, you'll need around half a dozen decorations total, whereas you'll probably only need 1-2 really good charms to chase to get the skills you want. Per weapon group (eg. Shield skills for lance/gunlance; sharpness skills for melee, reload/ballistic skills for ranged weapons) you'll need (consservarively) 1-2 different decos per weapon group, whereas 1 charm per weapon group would generally suffice. Granted, other variables like hyper-specific armors need to be taken into account, but assuming that you may want to lowball the number of required charms/decos by 1 each (possibly negating a need for a class specific charm). So it practically boils down to whether one prefers to hunt a few specific charms with very small chances each, or hunt for a lot of decorations with more decent odds, but cummulatively would probably be equivalent to getting a god charm equivalent (assuming again that the relative number of decos/charms (ie more decoration chances because more decos are needed vs charms). One conclusion to derive from this is that given average luck, it's bound to be common for people to not have either a god charm or the god group of decos. Statistics will guarantee that. Builds will remain incomplete for a majority, and that's intended, I think. Both give incremental optimization towards the optimal build, so that argument is practically moot (ie, you can get a "good enough for now" talisman and be a few less skill levels, and you can also incrementally get onr deco at a time). On a personal note, I personally want to open the equipment menu and think "so I need to work on this charm" rather than "so the number of these decos I need is *insert number*". Less mental load imo, hence my preference for random charms over decorations (if I had to choose one to be random).

What I like about Rng decorations is that it redestributes the grind. With deterministic decorations the grind is known and simple, you plan your build, you go kill the appropriate monsters, you make your decorations, and suddenly you have the best build in the game. With Rng decorations its not so simple, you are always working with what you've got. You can still grind but its too punishing for the average player. Basically, the game is balanced in a way where you are not supposed to have the best possible build. Now, some people take issue with that cause they want to feel powerful and have the best stuff, but I like the experience of slowly and incrementally improving my builds, and not to mention, the big reward is that once you accept that you won't have access to the best stuff, it frees you from the grind. Of course, the big downside is that some decorations are borderline necessary for some weapons, like artilery for gunlance, and sure you can get them from armor but past a certain point its very unoptimal. Thankfully most of these must-have skills seem to be easilly obtainable if you play enough, at least in iceborn so its not a huge problem, but not all (e.g. artilery+ is rng and kinda painful to get) so I guess its not all upside with rng decos.

I guess the reason why Capcom made Risebreak's endgame such an rng sink is to bridge the wait for the next title, basically a carrot on a stick to retain the playerbase for much longer, but it obviously didn't work lol. The rise director mentioned in an interview that they designed rise to be like a mobile game which has the pickup and play format with little inconvenience but the quiro crafting was a slog, literally a 360 from the base game's design philosophy.

The internet and civil discussions are in two different dimensions these days.

I don’t understand why fans all agree that MH crafting is a brilliant alternative to completely random loot, but that same philosophy doesn’t apply to decos. RNG decos are miserable. Also, mandatory armor skills should be removed. Charge blade should just have 6 phials and bows should simply have 4 charge levels.

In general, the less RNG there is, the better it is for me. One thing I really liked about the Fatalis fight is that you can guarantee his most valuable drop if you manage to break his horns twice. The game is actively rewarding you for playing well, instead of rewarding you for doing the same fight over and over until the RNG gods will answer your prayers. We do get increased drop rates from breaking specific parts of different monsters, but I wish Capcom went all the way and just guaranteed the drop if we did something specially difficult, while having a smaller random drop rate naturally on top. And no melding monster parts isn't a solution, it's a band-aid fix. You're not rewarded for playing well, it's just the devs having pity on you.

Honestly, I think a bigger problem than rng vs deterministic decorations is the armor. Not just the skills but also the slots. In iceborn pretty much the way it works is as you unlock the late game armors most of the armors become obsolete, by the end of the game there are only around 10 armors that are even in consideration (and maybe one stray piece here and there). Maybe its not a huge problem, after all it makes sense that you will be getting better gear as you kill stronger monsters, so naturally the gear you had before will lose relevance, but I don't like the idea of 95% of armor being irrelevant in late game. I think there should be some kind of armor augmentation system to make the low tier armors relevant, for example, maybe you can "fuse" 2 pieces of the same type to get a bonus or something.

I loved Qurious crafting but I also wasn't looking for "the perfect build". I rolled until I got something I thought was cool or good enough. It also gave incentive to hunt every single monster in the game which was so much fun.

I like RNG Charms, but I want them as a quest reward and not a pay-in from the melder, or mined (like the old games).

I'm ok with any of them being RNG as long as we get monster variety to farm for them and the RNG is acceptable.

Rng charms, but I’d rather have both craftable

12:43 I have a bit of bias towards QAC purely because I did a save where I limited myself to the MHR Demo Greatsword set (Goss Harag armor and GS). Between the start of Rise and end of SB, I lived and died by the set's intended playstyle (Crit/Punishing Draw GS), and it was still plenty of fun to have with the game. Although with just how crazy even standard QAC can get, I was able to make a second set of Goss armor that allowed me to play around with Elemental, non draw based GS - a wildly different playstyle from the armor's original intent Just a shame i got so used to the reliability of it and also got a Frostcraft draw set, but the fact that's actually possible to fundamentally change your build and by extent play style is what made me enjoy the concept of QAC in the end. That and I'm not keeping the casino spreadsheet on hand at all times to remind myself to keep gambling - so long as it works for what I need, I dont need the 1 in a Sunbreakillion talisman/QAC roll

As someone who started in Freedom 2 where there were no charms yet, I haaaaaated the RNG decorations of World. I guess the blow is softened by how armor skills have changed over the years, BUT I kinda actually want the old school system back. Having negative a skill on a specific monster's armor set and deciding if you wanna use decos to negate the debuff, or enhance the strengths of the set instead was fun imho. I still see the charms more as a bonus, while the decos are more of a "core" mechanic. Guess I'm a weirdo like that lol In my time playing World having exactly UND EXACTLY two attack up decos sucked. The melding system also just felt like a poor bandaid on top to me rather than fixing the issue. (But I also have not played Iceborn to end game because of other issues, so I don't have the most experience with it frankly) Now to watch the rest of the video x3

Wilds seems like a more user friendly entry. The hand holdiness of it would indicate they wouldn’t make rng as grueling as it used to be. I’d be surprised if it was all that difficult to get what you want at all

Considering that I need far more Decorations than Charms, I would prefer Random Charms rather than Random Decorations. Also, I would not mind Negative Skills. For example, a Positive skills may make you generate less Aggro, while Negative can make you generate more Aggro, which is good for tanky Shield units protecting their glass canon allies.

I have yet to hear a good argument in support of RNG decos and that has still not changed after watching this video.

To me it's about what extent of my build can I set a goal for, outline that goal and deliberately focus effort into achieving it - what portion is a result of my effort vs my luck. My iceborne fatalis set has 44 skill points, *26 of which are from decorations* meaning 60% of my build was a result of luck. Not effort. In Sunbreak, my set has 58 points, 9 of which are the charm. That means 15% of my build is a result of luck. I can deliberately craft 40% of my build.... or 85% of it... There's just no argument to be made here in my opinion.

The irony is: You’re never going to convince someone you’re not trying to convince them of anything.

Went on a similar path; in modern MH games, Charms being just another slot with guaranteed stats is nice, getting a 'good' charm was such a pain and felt impossible in Sunbreak. I do hope they make decos craftable/meld-able, so if I'm just not having any luck with a certain deco I can at least put time towards guaranteeing one later (not unlike, say, EX trials in FF14 where you can put in time and gurantee a mount with totems if you just never get a drop). EDIT: Also I think stuff like RNG decos and charms would be way better if there were just less overall skills in the game

I do enjoy some elements of RNG, I probably lean more towards RNG decos but I would like something a bit different than World, was weird to have hundreds of the same deco piling up. Not sure what the ideal system would be though

I used to be on the side of RNG charms, but I chaneged my mind after playing RIse and GU. My main issue with rng charms is the ammount of time you have to put in the system and how you constantly have to evaluate your (mostly crap) results. Deco farming is just: do a quest, get some (mostly trash) decos, go again. Charm farming meanwhile is: do a quest, check your melding results, evaluate for every charm how bad the roll is in comparisson to the charms you have, select charms/Materials for new melds, go again. RNG charms to me feel a lot like qurious armorcrafting in that sence

I feel like the RNG charms promote trying different builds, because when you get a pretty good charm but not exactly for your build or weapon, it encourages you to try out a new build with that charm. It did me at least.

I think a remix of MH4U’s system would be best. Both RNG and Craftable decos and both RNG and craftable charms. But the MATERIALS to make decos and charms are RNG rewards from hunts. The best charms and decos would require rare endgame materials but the RNG stuff will be ‘good enough’ until then. It already worked similar to this in MH4U and that was still my favorite system.

Hypothetically if it takes 1 hour of grinding rng decos for attack up and rng charms for attack up, in the end grinding rng decos give more reward as decos can drop for other builds and uses where as rng charms will only ever drop attack up

The reason I'm on the side of RNG charms is because decos make up a bigger percentage of your skills. So not getting the decos you need hurts more generally. I'd prefer being able to craft both, or if charms were rewards at the end of quests. I think most people don't like the RNG charms in Rise because you have to do math and work out the most efficient use of materials to get them. If they were quest rewards like RNG decos in World it would fix a lot of complaints. Still prefer to craft both though

Ive only been playing MH for about a year(SNS and CB main), having started with Rise and then gone back to World. Personally I liked the rng decorations more because I like the puzzle of putting together a solid build with what I have. I found having to craft all my decorations in Rise kind of overwhelming, though i see the appeal, and I have yet to get a charm that isn't dogwater. All that said, some middle ground would be ideal. We don't know enough about Wilds for me to have a strong opinion about how it will handle things, but the info we do have has me intrigued.

I'm more for RNG Charms, but only under the current system simply because RNG Decos means more of your build is tied to rng. If they were to go back to the old system where decoration slots weren't level-based and the decoration sizes simply resulted in it eating more slots, then I think I wouldn't mind RNG Decos as much. I also think they should give us other methods of obtaining the RNG Decos. In the old games you could mine for charms, so they should bring that back for the decorations. That said, skills seem to be having a number crunch as some skills have had their max skill level reduced such as Speed Sharpening, and based off italian and chinese interviews damage-focused skills will be locked to weapons....which makes the decoration with the little sword icon in the corner make sense. EDIT: About Kulve Taroth; it was very clearly meant to be World's replacement for 4U's Relic weapons and the rusted shard weapons. I do think they went a bit overboard on it, but it's not the first time MH has had RNG weapons, and it likely will not be the last.

the best way to solve this problem is we craft both charms and deco's to a degree and if they add an upgrade tree to charms like World did then add one for certain deco's like the element resist deco's for example you can use the excess 1 slot deco's to make a better 2 slot version adding a loop of using extra deco's to upgrade the ones we want to use, as for charms limit them to non offensive skills or at least limit the number of upgrades they can have if they have offensive skills

I feel we should be able to create EVERY Deco and earn/collect every charm. Keep the RNG for Decos but also have the ability to craft them all. But... I do understand them not wanting you to be able to make Attack Jewels.

The main thing for me is that focus crafting decos is more fun and enjoyable, while getting them randomly just feels horrible. I don't think having a perfect charm is important at all. Just get a decent one with good slots and you are good to go. I don't need a perfect slot WEX charm, I just need something usable. And I think that assuming Wilds will let you meld the best decos is copium. Thats not something that will be in the base game, thats an end game convenience feature

I like what I’m seeing with monsters spawning and you being able to see what rarity of decos that monster will drop. Give me more in that direction so we can target farm the decorations we want while keeping the random chance. Preferably any monster can drop high level rare decos. Let the apexes and elder dragons have a slightly higher chance to spawn with those, sure, but I don’t want to be hunting the same monster every time. There should be a chance that Chatacabra spawns in with 4 max rarity deco drops. That would be a great incentive to hunt something different, and would be very fun. Imagine you get your 4 slot Attack+ Jewel from a low tier monster after grinding elder dragons for hours, it would be hilarious

I think the best system is to have RNG but also clear and hard path towards getting what you want. I’m perfectly fine with rng as long as I can also work towards what I need even if it’s a long road as well.

For the argument of rng charm (craft Deco) vs rng deco (craft charm), I feel like people don't really talk about how meh the craftable charms are. Say I want to use some skills like Guard, Handicraft, Razor sharp, and/or whatever instead. If doing random charms then as long as I get a charm with SOME combination of those then I can adapt my armor pieces and decos around it. In the craftable charm space there's a reasonable chance my charm wouldn't have those skills put together. In that case some of the charm would be dead/wasted skills if it's a multi skill charm, making it not very exciting. I feel like if they just made the rng charms as quest rewards like the rng decos were then it's completely fine since they get trickled to you. I wasn't that upset when I would get 'garbage' decos after a quest because I'll just get more decos after the next one. Whereas with the Rise charm system you had to open a separate menu and look through a pile of charms to walk away disappointed. As an aside, I feel like it's a bit odd that your initial point for the rng decos was that you could craft the ones you really needed if you did not get them organically. Like, that's the whole argument for why rng charms was a nice system.

I think the best path for this situation would be a pity and wishlist system for decos. At least i would know after a certain number of hunts i am guaranteed a deco i am looking for. Or maybe a way for investgations to guarantee a certain deco drop, but the quest cycles that drop them are RNG? Kinda like how rotating quests worked in world, where kulve/zorah or arena quests would randomly show up after a hunt. Honestly, this has been a very interesting community discussion. I dont think i've seen this much debate since the "does deviljho eat his own tail?" rumor went around and we all had a mandela effect lol

separating them into independent drop categories should probably help with farming. i feel like decos with paired skills are more the reason why deco farm is annoying, it bloats the pool by a LOT. imo a better version would be decos have 3 varieties, standard skill activation (once), double activation, and the 3rd is a deco with essentially an additional empty slot/attachment dock that allows it to be permanently grafted with another decoration also having an attachment slot. this would drastically reduce the bloat of drops while keeping the grind incentive, since different armor sets would desire different skill combos.

I've always been more of a fan of RNG charms (though the less RNG in terms of both charms and decos the better I say) mainly because charms felt more like an extra armour piece that gave no defence, while decos were to fine tune your build to get those last points to reach break points for specific skills. As long as you had a selection of decent charms, what they were didn't matter much individually as they were just a factor to what other pieces of armour you were getting. But decos was far less forgiving, and generally it was either you had it or not. In both World and Rise, it was easy to be stuck not being able to reach the break points you needed for your most important skills without wasting precious skill slots with skills you didn't care about. It was fine if it was like one or two points on something that merely had marginal utility for your playstyle like speed eating or constitution, but what if it was spare shot on a melee build or fire up on a blast build? What if it was both? Decos let you avoid such issues and be far more efficient with your skill picks by having to compromise taking subpar armour pieces and filling the rest out with decos. It might be more of a perception issue, but taking second rate charms didn't feel as bad as taking armour pieces with skills you had zero use for just because it was one of the few pieces that had the skills you wanted. If you wanted Guard5, you had no choice but to grab 3 pieces of Barroth and Uragaan back in World, yet Guard3 plus a deco slot was relatively easy to get in Rise, needing only one piece of Guard or two Guard decos, both of which was easily farmable. While I agree that there was serious issues with how Rise handled charm RNG, as long as you pretended that the one-in-ten-billion charms didn't exist, charm RNG was far easier to handle than deco RNG, since one gave you options of "good enough" drops, but the other was "you got it or you were screwed" sort of situation.

prefer charms cause less grinding/rng. RNG is a very fine blade between good rng that promotes playing the game and frustrating rng that makes you want to quit. decorations made me annoyed every time i grinded for them i think the best form of RNG is focused rng (like late term rise) where you can make 1 skill targeted to show up very often. and i think they should have at least 2-3 drops per hunt, so even if your just grinding you get them without having to actually specifically farm for them i played over 1000 hours of world, that entire time i got 1 attack x 2 charm and 1 expert x 2 charm............ both of which were given out for free by the devs........ edit: Lance and prob Gunlance should have Guard up by default, it makes no sense that weapons with shields larger than the hunters body only difference to S&S shielding is a few levels of innate guard.

I prefer rng decos for 2 reasons. First is that the number of decos is limited, unlike the charms which (at least in sunbreak) had so many modifiers that it was significantly harder to get a god charm than a lvl4critical eye deco in iceborne. In fact oftentimes it wasn't even a clear goal of what a god charm would actually be, due to the added armor skill rng and that felt more frustrating than just going to farm for a lvl4 deco. The other reason is that whenever I replayed mhw (and I did that 7 times by now) I really enjoyed making builds work with what I had available in terms of decos. It was a cool challenge and actually made me use certain armor pieces and bonuses I'd otherwise never have touched.

Charms and it's not even close.

i pretty much like RNG in monHunter, if id have to choose between RNG charms and decos, i choose RNG charms. Better feeling when getting good charm than when getting good deco.

If the offensive skills are on the weapons I'm OK with random decos

The problem as i see it is some weapons almost REQUIRE decorations, i.e guard, handicraft and artillery, so crafting decorations seem like the best option for the health of weapons.

I don't mind RNG decos as much as RNG charms as long as we are able to farm them from all monsters. Maybe tweak the system a bit and have a set pool of skills drop (or have an increased drop rate) from specific monsters that ties in to their lore and ecology. That pool of possible drops can even just be taken directly from the skills you get from that monster's armor/weapon set. At least that way, if you're farming for a specific deco, it's easy to know which monsters to focus on hunting. To use an example you have used before, Nargacuga should drop (or has a higher chance of dropping) decos for evade window, stamina surge, peak performance, etc.

I still maintain that both Charms and Decorations should be both farmable and craftable. Here is what I think is the Perfect System for the current Skill System we have; Charms; Crafting : All charms are Single-Skill Charms, but can have secndary Decoration Slots. When you Craft a Charm it comes with one point in the skill in question. As you upgrade the Charm it adds additional points to the skill or Decoration Slots, based on the slot cost of the skill. Each charm would end with let's say 6 slots worth of skills. So Max Atk Up would have 5 Atk Up and 1 1 slot. Max upgraded Wex would have Level 3 Weakness Exploit and nothing else. Max upgrade Horn Maestro would have 1 Horn Maestro and 2 2 slots and 1 1 slot or something similar. Max Upgraded Maximum Might would give you +3 Max Might. Farming : In addition to allowing access to some skills before they can be crafted, they basically give you one of the charm levels using the formula above, and still come with their level being determined by the base level of the skill. So a farmed Horn Maestro skill would always be considered a Rank 1 Charm, but may come with starting slots. For a Farmed Charm for a skill with a slot cost higher than 6 in total, you can also get a charm with a + to the Level of that skill. This does not increase the level of the Charm. So you could get a Level 1 Max Might Charm with +1 bonus Max Might instead of a slot. You would then be able to upgrade these farmed charms using the exact same system as crafter charms. So the hypothetical Max Might with +1 Bonus Level above could eventually be upgraded to +5 and result in a Max Might charm that gives 4 levels to the skill. If, like Iceborne, they add additional levels to skills with the Master Rank Update, they would then be added as additional upgrades, so a Crafted Horn Maestro Charm would still give you slots up to Level 5, and only then would add a second rank of Horn Maestro. Decorations; Crafting : You can craft a Decoration exactly like Rise. They come as a single level to the skill with varying slot costs. Farming : Like with Charms you get access to farmed Decos before you get access to craft them. In addition, as you farm Decorations they will have one of 2 boosts to them. Either they will be farmed as 1 slot size smaller than they can be crafted, or they will come as a compound gem which has multiple skills, like the 4-slot gems from Iceborne, but on potentially any size. This can give you double skill ranks, but will most likely give you a random secondary skill. This ensures every hunter can have a base-line of skills available by charms and decorations, but farming doesn't lose its place as it can give you access to some skills earlier, which can help encourage people to make certain builds. I made my first MHW Bow Build specifically because I just got a random Bow Charge Plus Decoration in a random hunt early in the End Game. You'll almost assuredly, if you play for hundreds and hundreds of hours, eventually trade out all of your crafted Charms and Decos for Farmed ones that give you the same base skills but a bit of extra. It also ensures that all craftable charms can be useful, and all farmable charms can remain useful as you go up the Ranks. So if you get a God Roll Charm in LR 3 or something, you can keep upgrading that charm even into HR or even MR, which is a problem I do think that MH suffers from and is part of the reason why people are encouraged by the game mechanics to absolutely blitz through Low Rank and even through High Rank if they join with the MR Expansion. Also the upgrading process won't in any way involved re-rolling the charm, so you don't need to worry about losing it or having it ruined.

I think RNG system of any kind is fine, since MH games are all about the end game grinding to achieve that best meta build or your preferred build. It also helps to extend the game's life, so as to give the players something to aim for after they completed the game's content. That is why we hear some players spend over a thousand hours in Worlds. However, i think RNG system can also be frustrating and downright, discourage players that are less patient and play many weapons (more decorations/charms to farm). So i think that an important thing that Capcom can implement in Wilds is Pity System. Like in Worlds, attack decos are like a myth. A pity system can be put in place so that a player who 'gatcha' more than a certain times, could finally get an 'attack deco'.

Honestly charm pools are too annoying. I'll never grind for any god charms, single skill drops are much more bearable