More of George's Regretful Kill 

If he'd never killed Rhaegar he never would have had to write the series

Lol

@@wyssmasteryeah he clearly prefers writing about the Targaryen dynasty

@@Charles-In-Charge Still mind-blowing how he wrote that Targaryen dynasty book before finishing the series, I know he had a lot of stuff already, but still... Around 800 pages for that book alone, with a second part coming and somehow he hasn't been able to write Winds of Winter in 13 freaking years? Makes no sense at all, but I guess that's the working method of George (gardener BS), just writing for the shake of it and let's see where it takes us...

​@wyssmaster he didn't write the series he wrote half

Yep, and that would explain the weird bit about how similar the ship he was on is to the Cinnamon Wind with its corpse in a cask of brine, Qhohuro Mo (Moqorro), etc. My guess is that originally Aemon left to join Daenerys on the same ship they reached Old Town on, and gets captured by Victarion. The line “Dark flame and kraken” in Quaithe’s message was originally “Crow and Kraken”, Aemon would be the crow.

But Alleras and Marwyn got into Aemon’s head with a glass candle, right? So can’t they have gotten any knowledge we need from him that way? Do we really need Aemon himself to be physically present for some reason? We have other maesters, other Targaryen’s, and we even still have Aemons corpse and blood in case that’s as important as people like Melisandre think

Couldn't it be Jon? Not necessarily just killing him but are the Night's Watch just going to leave the body? How much time did it take for that guy to transform into a wight in GoT? Timing maybe an issue. Is it plausible that warging into his wolf even dying preserves his body from turning into a wight? Is Shireen burning the fuel to resurrect Jon?

@@pcharl01 well but Jon might not be dead, all we know was he was stabbed at least four times and then all he could feel was the cold. But even if he is dead, Mel is there and could easily pull some magical resurrection like in the show, no Ghost required. She is literally in the magical resurrection and fire cult after all

@@pcharl01 It's back to the thing of easily reversible. Like, even without fire magic and resurrection, you can literally just say "Jon didn't die! He's just badly injured!". Sure, is it anti-climactic? Yeah, but it's easy to fix. There's no reason Jon dying should delay Winds of Winter, when there's a bunch of ways to resurrect him.

Talk about irony. All that fucking and reproducing for nothing. And to have the oldest member be the last one to survive.

In the black cells

He dolls himself up and lays out a marriage proposal to the Great Other during the long night

And it turns out he's a supernatural being that only played the whole situation to reap Frey blood and souls.

Yes can definitely see it . Black Walder is now heir. Several Freys think he killed his predecessor and are plotting to kill him. I think Black Walder will survive, kill them but then see enemies elsewhere. There is going to be a whole Frey civil war. Meanwhile Lady Stoneheart is out there taking them out. And all the Freys in the North will die fighting Stannis. Walder Frey will see the end of his line and his castle will be seized by the crown, that's what happens when there are no heirs. I wonder Olyvar is, he was squire to Robb and I think stayed loyal to him or the kid that idolized the princess he was supposed to marry when he was engaged to Arya. Gatehouse Amii will land on her feet, so to speak.

This line hits so much harder as an adult

How does this comment not have more likes!

His little birds pop up and say "Actually we still have our tongues and used prop knives so everyone we stabbed is still alive"

@@wyssmaster Varys kinda forgot about his little birds but they certainly didn't forget about him.

Varys was rising up in the shadows, spinning his spider web. Now he is irrelevant, seeing him as a mere ineffectual bug

I'm also kinda on the Aemon train because he might know some Targaryen family secrets which noone else could know. Possibly something about Dragonstone and the awakening of stone dragons or other old valyrian magical bs or some kind of hidden obsidian supply at DS or something

But couldn’t someone find whatever he would have had to say written down at the wall. Yes he was blind but he wasn’t always. It just doesn’t seem that hard to fix if GRRM really needed to do so.

Yes you could but the wall is a long way from old town where Sam is. I think when your looking for a reason to regret killing the character the characters location is just as important.

the thing that makes me disagree about the aemon possibility is because of prestons theory that marwin and the sphinx pried into aemons mind with the glass candle to get some secrets about his youth and family, i think he talks about it in his dornish master plan series, so any information aemon could have marwin and the sphinx would have too

Your right but glass candles only started to work recently in the story. Any conversation with bloodraven and rheagor they couldn't have spied on.

Wouldn't be the first time a character comes back

Yeah, their might also be important thematic significance to their deaths wich George doesn’t want to take away.

like disney bringing everyone back

Some don't even require a reversal. Quentyn, Jojen are only theorized as dead.

Maybe... though perhaps a little odd that he'd have excessive fakeout deaths before, and only now really start to care about them. Arya and the ax at the Red Wedding, Tyrion and the Stone Men at the Sorrows, Davos and the execution at White Harbor, Bran & Rickon at Winterfell, Theon at Ramsay's sack of Winterfell, Stannis if the Pink Letter is lying. Not to mention all the resurrections...

Big IQ take

What progress my brother died and it's still not out

You could absolutely be correct

This is what I think it is. Could take hundreds of thousands of words to undo and years to put it back together again, which is extremely mentally draining. Could go a long way toward explaining why Winds has taken soooo long to write.

And it fits with their principles, since they still called themselves King's Men, insisting on follwing a directive despite King Robert's death

It might have, had the writers actually read, or cared about, the source material.

Show ending dont count for anything lets all forget

In another video they rule out Oberyn because the character of Oberyn isn't gone, but rather split in to 7 characters. There isn't anything that he could have done that can't be done by one of the sand snakes.

Very first kill?

Who 😂

​@@Jetpackguyy A knight from the vale who recently joined the Watch, and is killed by Others in the AGoT prologue, youngest son of Bronze Yohn Royce, Lord of Runestone.

Dance with me, George

​@@kaminsod4077 Also, he's a bastard of Ned Stark's brother Brandon.

Ser Patsy of House Parisi

I think Jon‘s arc can only really work with him dying and being resurrected not least because of the Night’s Watch oath.

@@amysteriousviewer3772 I agree, it may just be that George realized he pulled the trigger on that too soon. Like being undead makes it too hard to negotiate with certain characters (probably wildlings, tbh) and now the already unpopular Jon has to work double time to get anything done, and that’s ignoring any soulless emptiness that may encourage him to take the less than moral paths (say, Catelyn style murderous revenge).

​@@amysteriousviewer3772I mean, his oath says "for this night and all nights to come." So it doesn't technically end when he dies.

@@PineappleLiar It's also difficult to even implement even less significant time jump, like week or month, hell even couple days are problematic - what are we going to put Jon in the freezer in the meantime?

You could honestly just say Jon didn't die and milesandre is keeping him alive with magic or something like that

Get Qyburn in here, stat! We can still save him!!!

He was a funnier character than we've ever had. (I have to specify that this is a joke and to blame George Lucas)

Maybe he regrets killing Ned.

@@Hoover889Nah Ned is the catalyst for almost the entire story though it could be someone like Renly or Maester Aemon. Kevan seems too recent to not be reversible with some mental gymnastics.

Ser Weymar Royce was the key all along

"That boar that mutual killed with Robert was going to be the key to preventing Dany from becoming the Mad Queen; dammit!"

Mycah

Yeah, being someone that died earlier might be why George overlooked it. But I can't think of who could it be

I really think it’s either Grey Wind or Lady.

Old Nan

allar deem@@Serch_YB27

Or if they were a prologue/epilogue POV character, I guess you could break the format but it would be weird.

Dude he already has a resurrected person who is Lady Stoneheart and Thoros didnt became this unmanageable powerful character . And he already included Easter eggs on Jon being resurrected from a second life inside ghost (With Varamir Six skins prologue). He doesn't need Melissandre to do it actually. Jon can resurrect when Wildlings take over the castle and burn shireen because of greyscale. And then by accident they did a sacrifice that ressurects Jon. Maybe they put his body in the pyre and then it becomes a parallel with Dany in GOT. The sacrifice, the fire, dragons being born. But it can all be unintended, with Mel having o agency in it.

Jon's "death" is easily reversible without a silly resurrection. When I read the books, I figured he just didn't get stabbed anywhere vital and would barely live. The Order of the Green Hand has a great theory on this that makes a lot of otherwise odd passages useful, and basically boils down to Jon and Tormund doing a glamor swap so Jon's consciousness was with Tormund, who got stabbed.

@@praetorxynI’m pretty sure Jon would notice if he suddenly gained a foot-long member

@@ianmcgregor576 You’re assuming Tormund actually has one just because he jokes that he still has one after half of it was bitten off, first of all. But Tormund would be glamored as Jon, and we don’t know enough about how that works. Mance glamored as Rattleshirt seemed to have no problem kicking Jon’s ass as if he were a small child, so that’s at least one piece of evidence you feel like yourself when glamored.

Sure Charles lol🙄

Sure Festina 🙄

George setting him up as Coldhands and then not delivering on that seems to be an obstacle

But he's so easy to replace. Just take another companion and give him a backstory and have him take his place. There's characters already that could probably carry any arc he has. Or you can have a new character. He's important, but not irreplaceable in the way Jon or Cersei or Dany would be.

Why is he important? In what way he would be unique to advance the plot of Jamie, Brianne and the brotherhood?

Nice idea, but how would he get to the dragon? There's no sign of him going to Slaver's Bay

She could hit Volantis, and then head to Pentos over land. From there it's a short hop to Dragonstone. I feel like sailing through the Stepstones would be lunacy. Far too dangerous to lose ships and men. With a Dothraki horde at her side, who is going to stop her when going over land? Which isn't to say that Aurane wouldn't be a good option to be a dragonrider. There is really no need to steal a dragon all the way over in Meereen, you could do it once Daenerys is already in Westeros.

@@autje1970 far more likely, Euron kills Aurane in battle and takes back the royal fleet for Cersei, gaining her trust.

@@musculusiv4172 he doesn't have to go to Slaver's Bay for them to meet as he's currently located on her only route to Westeros. She only needs to lose dragon before the Second Dance, and for that, she has to be in Westeros, and for that she has to pass through Stepstones. There is no harm in her having two dragons while ravaging Yunkai and Volantis.

@@autje1970 but her fleet is in Meereen, so at least the fleet has to pass through Stepstones to get to Pentos. Well it's not *her* fleet now, but there is little doubt that she'll get Iron and Volanteene fleet.

I did it for the Realm, for the children... I mean, the Underrealm, the merchildren. Make no mistake, FISHPEOPLE LIVES MATTER!

If it is someone earlier, I would guess Luwin, since he presumably knows a lot of Stark secrets, which aught to be incredibly relevant for Winds.

Old Nan, baby!

The Antler Men were a key part of Baelish's debt trap, of course.

Oberyn is an interesting one. Hes a lens for the dornish plot in kings landing. I don't think he can be brought back either.

I mean it’s not really time-travel in the traditional sense. It’s a closed loop. „The ink is dry“ and all that, meaning that whatever Bran may have done in the past („burn them all“) already lead to the events as they occurred and only serve to close that loop.

@@amysteriousviewer3772 I mean isn't closed loop time travel just the sci fi version of a prophecy one has to fufill.

@@alexanderguerrero347 Not exactly because a prophecy usually refers to events that have yet to happen that may mirror past events but are not necessarily dependent on them. Closed loop time travel simply means that the events that have already occurred can not be altered by the time traveler, only set in motion.

One problem: The mf is blind

Then he still can, because as you stated Hodor isn't dead in the books.

Yes, because he was a "mobile " POV character down where he needs one

It's Ned. If he'd left Ned alive he could have finished the series in three books and been done fifteen years ago.

Sure, but Bran, Bloodraven or a glass candle user could all provide that information

@CharlesFreck Bran is notoriously hard to write for and I imagine trying to force exposition into those chapters will be tough. And George has already discussed wanting to scale back the glass candles idea because he was having second thoughts on them. Regardless, both of these things are dream like sequences or visions. They are unreliable and characters in the story never really take any action based upon information they've learned from their dreams/visions as they can never be sure what they meant exactly. Exposition from Aemon would be much more straightforward and simple

This being said, I'm currently rereading Feast and George can very easily retroactively say that Aemon told Sam something before dying. It's shown he talked about prophecy for days and days before dying but Sam seemed to think it didn't make sense most days. So he could probably make Sam put 2 and 2 together maybe idk

@@VinceLovesToast Yeah, or it can just be in a book. The point is, if he really needs to get out of the corner, he's got half a dozen perfectly good options. It doesn't matter if characters haven't trust visions so far, just make it an "extra convincing, realistic vision" and have them suddenly believe it, or just use the glass candles this one time and then have the Maesters or the Faceless Men or Bloodraven destroy the network. Like, if you're painted into the corner, then hand wave to get out of it and then go back to normal. Books are complete contrivances and his story is already full of plot holes. Tyrion literally forgets to address that Petyr straight up tried to get him murdered and started the whole war. GRRM realised court intrigue was more interesting and so essentially just hand waved his way out of that corner to keep an interesting character around. So you're seriously going to say George will hand wave away a serious plot point in the main plot, but refuses to give 2 pages of exposition and just have a character believe it? Also, Jon is the one who probably most needs to know about the prophecies and summerhall, and Jon is incredibly easy to influence via dreams and psychic powers. He spends his whole story getting influenced without realising it by Bloodraven. (probably, or someone else, like future Bran or Bloodraven's lover) Dude is basically a puppet at this point. No, I can't believe Aemon giving exposition was so critical to his story that he wouldn't just handwave it away, when he hand waved away the entire reason the war in Westeros started. Dozens of characters killed and Petyr role gets hand waved away completely despite Tyrion knowing he started the whole war.

Coukd be Tywin, without a strong figurehead at King's Landing then what reason is there for the people to not revolt seeing all their figureheads be jailed and humiliated by the faith. How is Cersie meant to be a character that somehow holds the kingdom together until the other players make their way back to Westeros without explanation as to how the kingdom doesnt completepy fall apart within that time.

That's a given. Preston is saying the other dragon has to get captured, otherwise not only is Aegon dragonless in a dance of dragons, but it's also a 2v1 in favor of Dany with Aegon in the crossfire.

So it would most likely be a POV character

No way. Jon‘s arc is not really complete and he was one of the characters surviving until the end in the original trilogy outline which also confirms that R+L=J.

Jon could be the night king

Jon legit just dying and not coming back would be fantastic.

If he had a dragon, he wouldn't need to be gifted anything.

I feel like Tywin died too early a proper ending would've been for him to see everything he's built fall around him

Yeah. I think people really overrate Tywin's competence and pragmatism. He really does prioritize short term crushing victory to the point that it screws him over long term.

​@@trout440aScrews him over long term how?

Cersei is an idiot, though, and Tywin is wise. Tywin is pure willpower, and through that, powerful and Cersei is all sense of entitlement and lust for power.

By burning any future bridges as well as breeding resentment. As a result of his approach of overwhelming brutality first as well as breaking time honored traditions like guest right, he's ensured that Dorne, the North, and the Riverlands will hate the Lannisters for decades to come. What allies he does have, like the Tyrells would drop him the second it becomes advantageous. Because ruling with fear and Brutality starts to fail the second you're no longer the strongest player.@@CheeseCrumbs00

Red team review

Rob’s not dead, he’s the Reek(4) at Moat Calian that CAN hold a sword.

​@@mistermaestersirthomas9164Bitch what? I need this theory

@@psychosytheXmediaXco I’ll probably have to respond in parts. Cat, soon to be Stoneheart, sees Rob stabbed though the heart. Sandor tells us, in so many words, that to kill a man you must stab him in the heart. But,… Cat is a pov in ASOIAF and therefore unreliable. Cat is also a follower of the Seven which is a metaphor for Catholicism, in this case specifically the ?Centrist? version where everything revolves around the “heart”. So the “center” or “heart” of a man is center mass not up and left. (There’s a whole clue branch into a Lady MacBeth/Cat’spaw/attempt to kill King Robert (hart) thing here too). This is why Rob gets stabbed by a “pale pink cloaked man”(Ramsey true born son of Barbary and Brandon) in the “heart” but then stumbles about before collapsing into Cat’s paws and gets to talk about her hair(heir) before “dying”. GRRM is taking advantage of a “dramatic death” trope, so we don’t question if he really died or not or why he didn’t die sooner. Ramsey at the wedding is why Ramsey’s minions had been watching Theon(Reek 3) and losing fingers to them instead of Ramsey. Theon was left in Winterfell and hasn’t left. Reek at Moat Cailin is Rob turned into Reek. The joke, of course, is that Theon was dressed as Rob at Winterfell for the wedding there and Rob is dressed as Theon, which Ramsey makes a 4th wall insult to the reader about “those fools really think you’re Theon Greyjoy?” (probably no exact quote, but close enough). The scene in Bran’s Weirwood vision where Ned is sharpening/cleaning Ice and Ned hopes “they love each other as brothers” is a feint for Rob and Jon. He’s really talking about Rob and Theon, since they are (as well Robin Arryn) their namesakes sons: King Robert’s. Rob and Theon are half-brothers. Cat found Robert, as she did Tyrion, at the Inn Westeros’ history is made. Just like her daughter-in-law, Cat found Rob(ert) injured and ended up getting pregnant, where as the one time with Ned she didn’t. He probably promised her a Queenship, maybe married by a tree no witnesses, and left her high and dry. Robert did the same with Lysa at Kingslanding after the war. This is all a Henry the 8th and Bolelyn fanfic allusion, Robert/Henry and Tully sisters/Bolelyn. This also why the sister’s conspire to kill him using Petyr and the Cat’s Paw, that assassination attempt was changed to Bran, by Cat, to (Mother) mercy kill him. The dagger Cat planted from Lysa from Petyr, ended up in her red soaked hands I.E. caught red-handed (Lady Macbeth and her dagger, also “faceless others” both in first act). Lady Dustin, her sister-in-law, had the same “First men” marriage by the tree no witnesses and Papa Stark and maester had it annulled, that makes Ramsey trueborn heir as the “Pink letter “ says. Just like Jon Snow, Snow isn’t a bastard. Anyway, Reek(s) has a questionable finger count on each hand and how each was lost. Some were chewed because Reek(Rob) is a trapped animal (Greywind’s second life) and some were cut. When Winterfell is looking for a murderer, Reek(Theon) is cleared because he can’t hold a KNIFE in his hand (two fingers on his bow pulling hand hinted at in: Essos with two structures jutting up like fingers, little finger/big finger, Davos rubbing only two of his missing fingers, and Theon shooting bow two fingers to draw with. Reek(Rob) at Moat Calian has “enough fingers to hold a SWORD, he had enough to still do that”. After meeting the “hooded man” headed the opposite direction, Reek passes him for a walk and returns. Ending up with Lady Dustin, meaning “hooded man” had met with her right before, Lady Dustin wants to see his fingers. This is because she can’t tell “the hoooded man” and Reek apart except the fingers, which she asked to see in the crypts. “The Hooded man” is Reek aka Rob, who didn’t know Theon didn’t kill Bran and Rickon. Theon “flips” him off with two fingers since that’s all he has left. “Reek you look like you got two heads”, just like “Hold the door” is an expression of shock and surprise, “you look like you’ve got two heads” is clue/foreshadowing that Reek is a “twin”(half brother look alike). Along with this and the Ned at the Weirwood vision are clues that Jon also has a twin: Jaqen aka Aegon the Even Younger. This makes the “3 headed dragon Aegon” sons of Aegon(Mance) in order: Aegon(Young Griff), Aegon the Younger(Jaqen), and the youngest Aegon the Even Younger(Jon Snow). One half brother and two twins, joke being 1/2 times 2 equals one dragon. Ned appearing to talk about both Rob and Jon, kinda does but individually. I call these “Pink Salmon” clues: not really Red herrings since they do actually give real hint just with trolling of the immediate meaning. Pink slamon is also the answer to Jojen Paste, probably without any Jojen unless his second life was a salmon. Rob won’t die until Nymeria’s pack is near to live a second life into, same with Rickon. Maybe technically Rob will enter Ramsey’s dogs, but the dogs will join Nymeria, so either way. Cat will kill Rob thinking it’s Theon, won’t figure it out until he plays with her hair again. Illyn Payne, Ned’s second life no tongue to bite like thistle, will “be the one to swing the sword” and kill a “Lady” Cat. Arya will kill Illyn(Ned) to complete this Shakespeare tragedy. Gotta go… let me know if you have questions

The published books in ASOIAF are literally the Pentateuch, the first Five Books of the Bible.

If that's the problem, Jon might not actually be dead. We see him bleeding out in the snow, but (theoretically) he could still be saved in time. It's not like we haven't had POVs who apparently die in their chapters (Arya, Brienne twice!) but actually survive. Whether that's a cop out or not is a whole other matter!

@@johnpotts8308 yeah he could also "solve" that issue that way too. The thing is, the foreshadowing we got in ADwD Prologue heavily hints that living on through Ghost is Jon's fate. I'd be shocked at this point if that doesn't happen as I'm not sure what purpose the things we learn about warging through Varamyr Sixskins would serve then.

I agere. The character he regrets killing imo has to be Jon or Aemon, and I definitely lean more towards Jon, for the reasons you say - Magic exists, there is no reason there can't be spells to allow one to speak to the dead, and even then there are other ways for Aemon's potentially missed role to be fulfilled. Jon, though? He may have been killed too early, and now George has to figure out how to fix that. I think my fix would be for him to be in a coma in bad health, rescued by Mel, and some prophetic stuff about him having more brushes with death to come.