Mormon Geography: where did the Book of Mormon take place? An Island theory... 

Let me start by saying thank you for your charitable approach to those who may differ from you. Your on the right track that the message of the Book of Mormon is far more important than the geography. I have been looking to come across an Island supporter to get their explanation in the question. That being said, I am a Mesoamerican Cumorah, two Cumorah fan. First let me address "isle of the sea." This is literary, poetic tool used in the Bible as well as other writing to simply mean a place seperated by a significant body of water. For some ancient writers this would include other shorelines in the Mediterranean basin or more far flung locations. So I can comfortably believe Nephi or Jacob or Mormon were speaking in a poetic sense. Glad you referenced Helaman 3 and the 4 seas "problem"... which really isn't a problem unless you make some false assumption. Some folk (including some scholars not named Hugh) see the 4 seas in Helaman 3 and try to read 4 seas into all the rest of the BoM. That's their mistake. A careful reading of Helaman 3will reveal that the 4 seas only had reference to the Nephites and Lamanites who left the Zarahemla-Bountiful lands and traveled into the land northward "an exceedingly great distance, in so much that they came to large bodies of water and many rivers." They had effectively traveled so far that the land which previously had only an east and west sea, now had enlarged to have a north and south sea. I would suggest Mormon is describing their migration from Mesoamerica, northward into what is now the USA. Dr. Mark Wright describes this as the Heartland as Hinterland theory. I had simply called it a Meso-limited migration model. with the principle events before and after Alma 63 and Helaman 3 set in Mesoamerica. The narrow neck is the southern half of the isthmus of Tehuantepec in Mexico and the sea to sea narrow strip of Wildernes is the Cuchamatanes mountains of Guatamala. More especially Joseph sent the earjy brotheren to the Lamanites on mission because he believed the western indians qualified as descendants of Lehi AND were Lamanites necause they did not follow Christ. Thats the later definition, being cultural and not genetic. Also, Joseph Smith's understanding grew to accept a Mesoamerican setting after he receivedthe book on the travels of Stephens and Catherwood. How do we know. By what he taught after getting the book in 1841. Word print analysis of the Times and Seasons articles placing Zarahemla in Guatamala excluded John Taylor or Wilford Woodruff an indicate Joseph Smith was the writer or editor of the articles. He was the editor and legally responsible for editorial content. If you are interested in additional reading, i strongly suggest 2 books by Dr. John L. Lund: Joseph Smith and Book of Mormon geography ; Mesoamerica and the Book of Mormon: is this the place. Plus books or acticles on the subject by John Sorensen, Kurt Magelby or other wriers not selling seminars and firesides wrapped in the Star Spangled Banner. Thanks again for your interesting video and your respectful attitude. I've been interested since my High School days too (in the 1970's) and after investigating the major contenders, I've settled on the meso-model... for as much as it really matters...😊

so how did Moroni get from this island to bury the plates in the hill near Palmyra New York?

Fascinating and makes a lot more sense to me for sure!

The Face of the earth was changed during the 3 days of Darkness so all or parts of those lands could be under water

All of your concerns about the heartland model have answers, see Wayne May, Rod Meldrum, and Jonathan Neville. You referenced the definition of Isle, however i think you may want to use the Websters 1828 edition to get a better reference for the definition of the word Isle than our current definition as it would be the definition understood at the time of translation. The definition discusses land surrounded by water via a lake or river, which the US has highways of rivers through the heartland surrounding and dividing the land.

What you pointed out in 2nd Nephi did it for me. I am tibthe point in my journey that taking the words of the book of mormon literal is all I need as far as scripture goes.

I have been thoroughly enjoying your videos this week. Oftentimes, I find myself with more questions, and I've decided I need to start asking them. I don’t intend to be argumentative, I'm genuinely curious. How do you explain this in JS's testimony in the beginning of the BOM if it really took place on a random isle anywhere in the world? Is the testimony not accurate, like the first vision account? “He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants."

Fascinating!!!!!

Interesting! Was thee anything in the scriptures that indicate how the gold plates ended up in New York? Did Moroni bury them up after his resurrection? Maybe Moroni buried them just prior to them being given to Joseph Smith? Who knows? Maybe the Book of Mormon people were on an island in the Caribbean? Did they travel from Jerusalem in a south eastern direction towards the promised land? Maybe the North American Indians came from Hagoth who might have been descendants from Joseph, the youngest son of Lehi?( see Lehi’s blessings to his sons prior to his death. Alma 63:5-8 “5 And it came to pass that Hagoth, he being an exceedingly curious man, therefore he went forth and built him an exceedingly large ship, on the borders of the land Bountiful, by the land Desolation, and launched it forth into the west sea, by the narrow neck which led into the land northward( maybe Florida?).” 6 And behold, there were many of the Nephites who did enter therein and did sail forth with much provisions, and also many women and children; and they took their course northward. And thus ended the thirty and seventh year. 7 And in the thirty and eighth year, this man built other ships. And the first ship did also return, and many more people did enter into it; and they also took much provisions, and set out again to the land northward. 8 And it came to pass that they were never heard of more. And we suppose that they were drowned in the depths of the sea. And it came to pass that one other ship also did sail forth; and whither she did go we know not.” Thoughts?

Wayne May research on this is the best I have found. Also the stick of Joseph on RU-vid

Very compelling…is there any isles at all still existing today that come close to this description?

Fantasy island, the 70s TV series.

Your Right on with your theory! I m from Ventura California and have study a bit about the chumash indians and the channel islands off the coast. They say they cam from lumaria a island thts not there anymore. Some thing like atlantis. The other interesting that should be considered is the first foreign speaking mission called by Joseph Smith .. a island called tubuai in frech Polynesia, Addison pratt and Benjamin grouard served and baptized many peoples. One should not take lightly this for Easter island in your pick is next close to this one. Its also interesting to me the biggest membership by capita, is Polynesian for sure. Joseph didn't tell us , but it seems to me the evidence is right in front of us ,and i think Polynesian is a key to this story.

I wonder if it could be Cuba? Elevation of mountains range from 3700 ~ 6700 feet; and possibly meets Joseph Smith’s interpretation of being in South America, well kind of not too far away. Thank you for your incredible videos and sacrifice, I learn so much.🙏❤️🇺🇸

I think the Malay Peninsula theory is the strongest theory out there. The more you look into it, the more it yields. It looks very similar if not almost identical to the maps you showed. Isle can also mean a peninsula. So, I think you're on the right track here! I think a lot of the decedents of Lamanites populated the Philippines, which is why there has been such a strong gathering there. Philippines are a collection of islands!

Sorry the last paragraph that I wrote was not correct and I didn’t mean to have that there.

The experts just don’t realize that this ancient artifact I bought from a guy while I was a tourist is actually real. He told me it comes from the land of Dumass. When the experts finally get more expert, I’ll be rich!

I have the peninsula theory. People often forget there is a certain amount of catastrophe in the Book of Mormon. With the death & resurrection of Jesus Christ there was a major change in the layout of the land. The DNA argument against the Book of Mormon overlooks the fact that Lamanite culture owes its origin to catastrophe. 2 Nephi 5:21

Fascinating! So under this theory, do you still believe that the Book of Mormon events took place upon the American Continent?

As long as you have confidence in your faith it makes no difference where or when events happened. Remember they still are looking for Noah’s Ark, Mount Sinai, Jesus tomb, the path taken by Moses in the Exodus. Somethings were and are a mystery and must be taken on faith! Faith is personal and unexplainable. Mysteries abound!

If they were on an island of the sea how did Moroni get off the island?

I to look to the Book of Mormon itself for descriptors of where the Book of Mormon lands where/are. When I read all of the many prophecies and promises made to Lehi's descendants there is only one place on the planet it can possibly be. Additionally, when I look at the Book of Mormon people, Israelites, I think it important to read the Book of Mormon as a story about Israelites, written by Israelites, for future Israelites, all in an Israelite (Hebrew) context, exactly as they would read it, complete with all of the words, numbers, and symbolisms starting in the heavens above and in the Law and the Prophets (Torah). Just a hint of where these lands (geography) are - in Semitic languages (Hebrew, Phoenician, etc.) the word Sidon means "a place where fish are", like a fishery or fishing area of a large body of water. It turns out that the river dividing North America East and West, running North to South, is called "the fish river" and phonetically sounded out in English from their respective Indian languages, spells "Mississippi"! Happy hunting. I for one have found my pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, The heartland/Hopewell are of North America, exactly where Lehi, Mulek, and the Jeredites all lived and died, and where Joseph Smith restored it and sent the first five missionaries of this dispensation in the first conference of this dispensation, in search of Book of Mormon people, Israelites, just over "... the line that separated Jew and gentile...", the Osage Treaty line, the Western border of the state of Missouri, where the gentiles had driven most of the Indians of the East and middle of the continent to during the Trail(s) of Tears, to the reservations in and around modern Oklahoma, who call the Mississippi river the fish river, the Sidon river of the Book of Mormon.

Me and my close friends, that are also searchers and believers of the BOM came to the same conclusion. All the evidence points to it being an island. And chances are, whatever island it was, has long been changed by the upheavals of the earth. We even created a plausible map you may be interested in.

I dont understand how revelAtion hasnt told our prophets where it is....but members wrestle over it..

I just found this video haven't seen it yet. How ever I like this topic. I am not a part of any church that use or holds to the book of Mormon or Joseph Smith. Just an outsider looking into this stuff

Where was the Island in the Sea that the Book Of Mormon references??? In this comment I will explain the location. Nephi's sailing ship landed at the 33 degree south latitude of Chile South America (so a little bit south of La Serena). The most northern point of the island was where Columbia is. The land mass was 2.2 times that of (north and south) England. The Book Of Mormon tells about how right before the coming of Christ there was massive changes in geography that included earthquakes, volcanoes, some land sinking into the ocean, some land masses rising out of the ocean and so forth and so on. Because of this North America became connected to the island. Also a lot of South America rose from the depths of the ocean, same for Central America and Mexico. Before this North America only extended south to the 30 degree Latitude. Furthermore before this great event there were no islands from North Columbia to the southern most coast of the North American land mass. The Book Of Mormon explains that from time to time Nephite people would use ships to leave the island to go and travel the ocean to live somewhere else. One of the places that these Nephite people went to was the North American land mass. From North Columbia (near Panama) to the southern part of Arizona... this would be a relative long and dangerous oceanic journey based on the kind of sailing rowing ships that the Nephite people had at that time in history. The White Nephite people on the North American land mass committed a lot of adultery, consequently their genetics became polluted and "adulterated" therefor they went from being a strong and intelligent people to becoming a scrawny, weak, and low I.Q. kind of people, but they were still white people (so different than how things were for the Nephites on the substantial Island). All of the males (regardless of age) of the Gadianton robbers were slain by the Nephite_Lamanite Army after the war with the Gadianton Robbers took place... but none of the Gad women were killed by the Nephites. The Gad women fled into the wilderness because they were afraid that the Nephite_Lamanite army would come back to kill all of them. In the wilderness they met up with young unmarried Lamanite men who preferred the Gad women to the jungle dwelling tribal Lamanite Women. So therefor the Gad women became monogamously married. The Gad females were extremely beautiful. All of the Gad women had children that were of the Tribe Of Manasseh, this is because all of their jungle dwelling husbands were genetically from the tribe of Manasseh. These children (despite their mothers having white skin) had dark skin because their Manasseh jungle fathers had dark skin. These tribe of Gad women came from Mulek, who was a descendant of King David and King Solomon and the line of Kings that has the genealogy written in the Bible in several places. The descendants of King Solomon, the royal ruling line, they married a lot of women over the centuries and centuries from the tribe of Gad. Consequently when the Gad women (who had been of the same genetic tribe as King David and King Solomon) married Manasseh men, the resulting children became Manasseh... but they still had a lot of the tribe of Gad genetics in them. Knowing how much the descendants of Mulek were hated by both Lamanites and Nephites, this entire group of jungle people built ships out of the woods that was common in the area that they were living in and were able to travel through the ocean to an area on the Island that was north of where the Nephites were located. The Nephites prevented the Lamanites from gaining land that was north of them when they lived on an Island of the sea by blocking all land routes to the north. These half descendants of Mulek were very smart (on average 130 I.Q., because the original white descendants of Mulek were even smarter). Because of this they were able to survive in the northern most part of the island that is what is now days called Columbia just south of Panama. North Asia is Russia. In South Asia just south of North Asia (just south of present day Russia) all of the men of South Asia were slated to be killed and then replaced by Mongol men. This meant that there was going to be a huge massacre of all of the common men of South Asia (whose Capital city is now days called Beijing). Some of these South Asia men that were going to get mass murdered preferred to stay alive, therefor some of those who wanted to stay alive they built sailing ships to escape from dying by being killed by the Mongol armies. The odds of making it all the way to The BofM Island Of The Sea was very small... but there were more than 500,000 sailing ships with South Asia men, their wives and children that attempted it. Not being great seamen like the Greeks (for example) almost all of them died at sea or they only made it to places like the Philippines or other places like that. But most died. One junker did make it all the way to the northern part of the BofM Island of the Sea. The Manasseh_Gad tribesmen when finding a small group of these South Asian people living on the North part of the Island, they killed all of the men but kept the women alive. They thought by crossbreeding with these strange looking new arrivals they could create a class of slaves that were strong enough to do productive work that the Manasseh_Gad Lamanites could then profit from. The South Asia people were very industrious. However what they didn't understand is that these South Asia women had the capacity to have a lot of babies. If forced to by government edict, these women could have on average 17 babies each!!! This in contrast to the 5 babies maximum that each Lamanite_Gad women could give birth to on average. Within a few generations there were so many of these half South Asia slaves compared to the original caste of masters that during a slave rebellion all of the original master caste were all killed... both men, women and children. This left a new breed in America that could have a lot more babies per female than the previous population of the Island Of The Sea. When all of the Earthquakes happened before Jesus came to the Americas most of this population was destroyed... but not all, some managed to survive despite massive changes to the land in that area. North America became connected to South America because of Central America (which hadn't been there before... that area in between had all been water before the great cataclysm). It was this group of Lamanites... the [Manesseh_Gad_South Asia] Lamanites that attacked the Nephites right at the end of The Book Of Mormon. Despite taking casualties the Nephites prevailed militarily. The Nephites became evil and some of their military men did Human Sacrifice of these Lamanites that were from the North of them. Even though the North Lamanites were a distinctly different group of people than the Southern Lamanites (the original Lamanites) they were offended by this mistreatment of their cousin Lamanites (so to speak) and so therefor they attacked the Nephites from South to North. This was the beginning of the end of the Nephites which The Book Of Mormon tells a little bit about. After massacring all of the Nephites (except some of the women, those few who were not Human Sacrificed to Lamanite Idol Gods) the Northern Lamanites (who were partially South Asian) they attacked the the Southern Lamanites and killed all of the men, then through war_time polygamy bred with all of the remaining South Lamanite females. This genetic group spread south and north, East and West and filled both South, Central, and North America that is a land area that was often only there after the mighty change in land that happened before Jesus came to the Americas. Hopefully this explanation gives better context than previous understanding. . . .

I'll use undiluted reason; If a people, place, events and authorship of the only text which can not be examined despite a large civilization existing for millennia with provable evidence beyond conjecture and all evidence found is contrary to the narrative, such a text is considered a fiction.

Wayne May heartland model. Raise the water level 40 to 60 feet and you've got all your seas and narrow neck etc. And the fact Joseph found the plates in the hill cumorah. I believe your concept of isles is wrong. A continent is indeed an island. A chunk of land surrounded by water. Don't miss the tree for the forest. For the seeds Lehi would have brought from Jerusalem to grow would require the 32 parallel (Florida). I would highly suggest an in depth study of Wayne May stuff. There is MASSIVE archeological evidence that bares out the BoM geography. Consider that the Mississippi River was as wide as the entire Mississippi River Valley. The narrow neck of land north would be between lake superior and eerie. The U.S. was literally cut in half by the Mississippi (Sidon) and we had an inland sea from New Orleans to St.Louis(Zarahemla). Not to mention Haplo X DNA is all around THE GREAT LAKES. I usually agree with you about stuff. But I have no doubt that Lehi landed in Florida and migrated north. Knowing where the BoM took place DOES help. It also points out liars like those academics defending an impossible meso-america model. Knowing where the BoM took place is a FOUNDATION and it is necessary to finding the truth. If the Bible had been written in France or Russia, would people still believe the Jews wrote it? Or that it was a Jewish history? But we know where Jerusalem is, and Egypt. And that knowledge helps us understand the Bible better. THE BOOK OF MORMON IS NO DIFFERENT. Joseph talked about "walking over the plains of the Nephites" in the OHIO RIVER VALLEY. And we all know where Cumorah is. ISN'T THAT ENOUGH?! We also know the Hopewell and Adena timeliness line up perfectly with the Nephite pre and post resurrection time lines. The Smithsonian Institute has STRIVED to hide true North American archeology for 200 years because of "manifest destiny" so they LEVELED huge earthworks just because they were shaped like a Minora. Or a middle eastern oil lamp. Or because the mound was shaped like an ELEPHANT. No, Zion will be right where the two Solar eclipses crossed paths. How do I know? That's where Jesus showed up in 3 Nephi. The southern 1/3 of Illinois where the Nephites all gathered to wait and starve out Gadianton's Robbers. There is a chain of ancient forts running east to west. You should really look into what I say here. Either Joseph was a Prophet, or he wasn't, and since the Book of Mormon is the measuring stick, it HELPS to know WHERE IT HAPPENED.

Where are the descendants of the Nephites and Lamanites??? In this comment I will explain where their location is. Mormon had one son. His name was Moroni. This is mentioned in the Book Of Mormon. But is this the only child of Mormon (author_compiler of The Book Of Mormon)??? [The answer is No.] Mormon had one son, then his wife gave birth to triplet boys. After that she gave birth to another son. Then over the years Mormon's wife had three daughters from three different births. After that Moroni was born. Moroni was the youngest of the children of Mormon. So total that is nine children from the same mother (though from only 7 pregnancies). Six sons, three daughters. The average for the Nephites was 5 children per mother. But it must be remembered that Royalty or said another, the highest caste of a society, they often intermarry with the highest level of another society (another country or nation). Consequently the three great societies that are indicated by The Book Of Mormon, the Southern Lamanites, The Northern Lamanites, and the Nephites (who were caught in between these two different groups of Lamanites geographically) the highest level people of these three societies intermarried with each other through daughter exchanges with agreed upon prearranged marriages. So while the Royalty or highest level people of the three nations didn't have exactly the same genetics, they did have similar. Because of this Mormon had some South Asia genetics from intermarriage with top level North Lamanites by his ancestors... consequently his wife, who was of the same genetic social caste as Mormon, she was able to have more babies than just the average number per Nephite women, which was 5 babies. By the time of the end of the Book Of Mormon the Nephites had become a collection of people that were Ephraimite, while the Southern Lamanites were Manasseh, while the Northern Lamanites had a significant amount of Gad genetics and South Asia ancestry as well, though they were Manasseh through their ancestral fathers of the patriarchal order. The royalty of all three nations were white, even though the common Lamanites of the South and the North had dark skin. The warriors of the Nephite army freaked out and human sacrificed North Lamanite women after raping them... thus becoming demon spirit possessed with two demon spirits by doing that. Mormon utterly refused to lead the Nephite Army at that point. The five oldest boys decided that they were going to leave The nation of the Nephites and they planned to do so by building a ship and sailing to a distant land so they could save their own lives. After building a sailing ship they headed East from the land of the Nephites through the Caribbean Sea into the Pacific Ocean where they wound their way to the northern part of Western Africa on the mainland near the Canary Islands. When they arrived on the coast near a large river these five adventurers found that North Africa was being ripped apart by war. So they had escaped out of the frying pan and had landed right into the fire so to speak. This is literally so because the nearest city from the Pacific Ocean where they landed was a smoking ruin that had been completely burnt down after a recently completed war (five days previous to them camping on the shore near the river). Seeing this great destruction they went back to the coast where their sailing ship was located and contemplated sailing south to perhaps find a peaceful place there to live out the rest of their lives. Just before they were about to get into their ship to sail away some ethnically Greek women with pale white skin confronted them and began asking them questions by waving their hands and doing other things that are commonly done when people don't know another group of people's language. Seeing that these women were fair skin and very beautiful the five sons of Mormon agreed to marry the 18 bold women that had contacted them through polygamy. Turns out these women were the last survivors of the city that the five brothers had seen that had been destroyed through a terrible horrific war that had only recently been completed. These were Royal women and their society had been extremely adulterous with their city having once been a part of the Roman Empire when it was Pagan before the Romans became a Christian people. The women showed them a secret cave that was a hidden abandoned mine that had a lot of food provisions stored. Because there were so few that actually went into the mine this group of newlyweds were able to survive for many years from the stored provisions. Additionally they raised snakes inside of the mine and mushrooms to eat, with silk worms being used to make clothes to wear. Because of the dangers of such a numerically small number of people being outside in a place where all kinds of violent people were known to travel, this clan of people stayed underground never ever venturing outside of the long before abandoned mine they were in for 120 years. Mon means "people of". Originally the Romans were called Ra_Mons. Or in other words the people of Ra. But as pronunciation fashion changed over the years and also because it is easier to pronounce, the Ra_Mons became known as Ro_Mans. This is so because some men escaped from Egypt by rowing and sailing some ships to Italy they conquered a village which they renamed Ra_M ("m" used to mean "village of") which in later historical pronunciation became known as the city of "Rome". (Ra being the Egyptian Sun God). Eventually the group of betrothed in North West Africa that had gone inside of the entrance of a highly hidden mine emerged and went to the location where the destroyed burnt down war ravaged city had been located and they built up the walls of another city at the same exact site. This became the first of many cities. Mon means "people of". So this group of people in this geographical area became known as the people of the Mors... or the Moors... because they were descended by paternal ancestry from five sons of Mormon, Mormon of The Book Of Mormon. Eventually (after many years) this nation of Moor people began to commit adultery after gaining a significant amount of financial prosperity and they were attacked by Vikings that had made a long voyage in many ships from the Island of Saaremaa, which is an Island which is just off the coast of the present day nation of Estonia (near to Russia). The Vikings killed all of the Moor Men, and they made the women their wives through war time polygamy process. Because of this the people of the Moors (after all the males regardless of age were killed) they went from being Manasseh to being of the Tribe of Dan in subsequent generations because the Vikings were originally anciently from the Israelite Tribe Of Dan. . . .

It took place in Joe's mind

I think you also need to take into account the prophecies regarding the land. That it would remain a free land and of course remember Nephi describes the entire discovery of the land by Columbus and he talks about the Catholic Church and the break off. Also Joseph Smith’s own testimony of Zelf’s mound and how are the king of that time ruled from the eastern seaboard to the Rocky Mountains. compelling for me, and how he describes the king I believe his name was urban.

Old Spanish maps had California as a island, spanish trail, motazuma,gold , Colorado river, grand canyon, 4corners area xmarks the spot? Moron colonyies along little colorsdo river, wilfred wouldruff journals about the lagunas, Zuni ,hopi, navajo, tongvas of catalina iland chumash, woman of san niclos island the chumadh didn't understand her language? Chumash fish hooks , tahitian canoe and chumash canoe meaning almost same language tumu raau, tomo loo, many names chumas, grass skirts, bedrock morter, beads, and they were sea people. Spanish trail goes straight to utah or juda, via Colorado river also? Eyes wide shut, theres alot there just research everything i just said and tell me were im wrong.

I don't consider this dispositive, but I think it's relevant that other than ancient Jerusalem, the only geographical Book of Mormon location that we know for absolute certain is the Hill Cumorah, in New York, USA. And the only location the Lord told the Saints to call by the name of a Book of Mormon city's name is Zarahemla, which was across the river from Nauvooo in what is now the State of Iowa, in the USA. Additionally, the Book of Mormon authors make reference to "this land" being a land of liberty, a CHOICE land (where people would "choose" to live). I also don't see anything that *conclusively* excludes the Americas from being considered "Isles of the sea." Those are not the only hooks on which I hang my hat, but a few points I wanted to make. I don't have personal knowledge of course, but I remain persuaded by the Heartland Theory. I can't wait to find out specifics, whether in time or eternity.

So you ignore the literally hundreds of thousands killed in the two battles at Hill Cumorah. No small island can accommodate those massive casualties in those battles. You cherry-pick the BoM just as badly as they do. Give up. The BoM is also nonsense.

Sorry I cannot throw away my logic and to force myself to believe in the historicity of the BOM anymore. The BOM is a made up story by a creative genius.

You present very interesting data from The Book of Mormon. There is a lot to consider about the passages you refer to. The final point to make basically unravels your position: You propose that the Saints consider a mystical island that may no longer exist, whose descendants are veiled from all knowledge. You basically say that even the new Jerusalem is up for grabs, and you acknowlege the total absence of any supporting facts that undoes your admittedly interesting stance.

a good background on logical inference, inductive reasoning, and epistemology will lead you to conclude it does not exist. the haplogroup map does not show any inheritance of semitic genome to any asian or american groups of pre-columbian origin. you are veering off the teachings of the self-proclaimed prophets of lds and no such archeological evidence exists of any monumental civilization described by the bom. whereas the bible and the new testament is consistently referenced as a primary source in archeology and history, the bom has no such utility.

Nope

Because the Book of Mormon if one big lie. The Bible, has all the evidence needed. GOD Him Self. The one and only.

Hilarious.

Yes…the most important untold chapter of human history…but no one (not even the “official” Mormon church) has a “position” on where these tales took place. You mean based on the depictions in the text that should have considerable physical evidence, and the many theories, not one consistent vein of said existence be found? I just think it’s so sad that a base, fundamental claim of a religion that would truly upend known human history if true - is just taken at face value because “it was said so” by its adherents, let alone the expectation that having two people of said faith knock on your door and convince others to convert as well…guess herd mentality is more powerful than thought. What a shame for all the human misery and self-doubt this has caused in those with enough fortitude to respectfully question these claims but find the rightful lacking in their nature. Looking forward to the day on this earth when we will still have the curiosity to pursue the unknown, but not be held down by tales from the past that constrain our thoughts and actions for no other fact that an authoritarian told you to from birth - less you be damned into outer darkness. Thing is - they way y’all have ruined the joint, it’s it funny how today’s “pioneers” are fixing to do just that and jet of this rock! 🚀 …just not Mars though, we must visit Brigham’s moon folk first. Or was it the Sun? 😂