MORMON influence In THE SHIFT...Can we trust it? 

Much love to you, Brandon, but @prj492 is spot on both in his representation of how we actually understand the passage in 2 Nephi you quoted, and in the meaning of the end of the film. I appreciate you recommending the film, but I would challenge you to take another look and see that everything you're looking for in the film is actually there....and a lot of what you did see simply is not.

That was a powerful response and it was excellent. Thank you.

LOL

4:04

? @@caroldavis9349

Thank you for your feedback. This encouraged me to go and watch it. I will keep this points in mind as I watch it.

Hello! I can’t speak for all Christians, but as someone who frequently dialogues with Mormon missionaries I believe it is important for Christians and Mormons to have open, respectful, and honest discussions about the differences in our faiths. The intent is not to belittle anyone but to speak the truth in love. After all, if you saw a friend about to go skydiving with a faulty parachute, I’m sure you would warn him not to jump! The same principle applies here. Christians like myself are lovingly worried that LDS doctrine is leading people to “jump” into eternity with the wrong gospel and the wrong God. Simply put, Mormonism differs from biblical doctrine on key elements, not merely “side issues.” As this video mentioned, Ephesians 2:8-9 says we are saved by grace, not works. Yet the Book of Mormon says the opposite: “if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind, and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you” (Moroni 10:32). So, the Book of Mormon teaches a different gospel-one where we must first love God perfectly and keep His law before His grace is sufficient for us. Many Mormons I talk to point to James 2:17, which says faith without works is dead. But just 7 verses earlier, James wrote, “For whosoever shall keep the whole law and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all” (James 2:10). So in context, James is not saying we have to work to “make up the difference” in God’s grace; he is simply saying that if we are truly saved, good works will naturally follow. The Bible teaches that good works are the result of salvation, not the cause of it. Mormonism also teaches a different Jesus than the Bible-which is obviously no small difference. According to the Bible, “all things were created by him, and for him” (Colossians 1:17, see also John 1:1-3 and Hebrews 1:8-12). Jesus is the eternal, uncreated God who made everything-including Lucifer. Yet LDS theology holds that Jesus is a literal son of God and so is Lucifer, making Jesus the brother of the devil and not the eternally existent Creator! So while Christians and Mormons both profess belief in Jesus, we don’t mean the same thing when we say “Jesus.” Note that even Paul expressed concern about people preaching “another Jesus” (2 Corinthians 11:4). Yet another major difference is the LDS portrait of God. According to Joseph Smith, God the Father was once a man like us, and we ourselves can progress to become gods. Thus, Mormonism teaches that there are multiple gods. Yet the biblical God disagrees, saying “before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me” (Isaiah 43:10). This verse almost seems written to refute Joseph Smith’s doctrine. (Interestingly, Joseph Smith’s teaching that Heavenly Father was a man who progressed to godhood also contradicts Moroni 8:18 and Alma 11:44 in the Book of Mormon.) Sorry to have turned this reply into a book, but as I said, these matters are important! I encourage you to take a look at God’s 10 commandments (you shall not lie, steal, covet, etc) and ask yourself if you are keeping them. Have you really done “all you can do”? Remember, the Mormon gospel says God’s grace is only sufficient for you if you first “deny yourself of all ungodliness.” But the biblical gospel says that Jesus-the eternal Creator-took on human flesh to suffer the punishment we all deserve. He rose again to display His power over death and now your debt, along with mine, is paid in full! If we try to add our own good works to the payment, we cheapen what He has done (Galatians 2:21)! All we have to do is admit we are sinners and place our complete trust in Jesus (not ourselves) for salvation. Ephesians 2:8-10 sums it up: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.“ Notice we are saved “unto good works,” not “by works”-not even partially by works. Good works are the result of salvation, not the cause of it. Salvation is a free gift of God received through faith-and it matters whether that faith is in the true Jesus or a false one. I hope you will think about this and seek the true Jesus. For anyone curious to learn more, irr.org is a great resource. 😁

@@wilsonhickman Wow! You put an awful lot of effort and energy into refuting other people's beliefs. We tend to be more concerned about dealing with our own "beams" than searching out everyone else's "motes." But, hey, thanks for your concern. Sending love right back at you. 😘

@@alittlepieceofearthWith all due respect, Rebecca, Wilson’s comment was given with truth in love as we Christians are commanded to do in God’s Word. However, your comment came off as snarky and completely insincere with sending “your love”.

oh no you've been had, now we're going to get you...🤣🤣🤣

You said exactly what I was thinking after this film! EXACTLY!

I love seeing arrogant and selfish people believe that their reality is the only important one, oblivious to the fact they're dismissing an infinite amount of people. You're right that we only have one eternal soul, but it exists in every corner of every reality. And our choices and actions never "create" realities. We just constantly shift our awareness to a new one that already existed and always will exist.

Also another sign God was there at that pivotal moment was when that man received his cat 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 remember that ?? ALSO , God will never appear in person on this corrupt planet in His Natural form, He is too Holy , That’s why He came down here 100% human and 100% God , born of a virgin and lived among us 👍🏻👍🏻 that moment in the movie when that guy got his cat back , instantly Kevin knew the Holy Spirit was in the room and that God Never left Him such as the Benefactor kept saying He did !!

Yeah totally get that. Like I said I liked the movie quite a bit and I think it’s good overall. Just somethings in the story that I could possible feel creeping in from outside sources.

Yes we should love all people, which includes Mormons. But Mormon core beliefs are vastly different from Christian beliefs; theirs is an entirely different Jesus, Son of God is defined differently, God in His entirety is different, people’s relationship with God is different, we ourselves are different, God’s Word is different in that the Mormon believes in its inerrancy only insofar as it agrees with their own books - the Book of Mormon and The Pearl of Great Price….

⁠@@ruby11For the record, we don’t believe in scriptural inerrancy in the other books we consider canon as well.

@@BarrettVanDyke and just for the record, in my experience with the Mormon people I’ve known, which is many, loving you people is easy. In my opinion there are so many Christians who could stand to take a good look at your character, which I’ve found to be lovely and genuine.

​@@ruby11the core beliefs are the same. Maybe some different understandings of Bible verses. Are you saying Jesus does not have the ability to save people who interpret and understand some scriptures differently than you do?

@@TheSocstar 🙂

He is unfortunately.

I just personally think the ending hinged way too much on Kevin and his choices. Yes he “sacrificed” what he wanted, but throughout the movie all he was trying to do was to run away from the hurt that God put him in. I would’ve liked to see Gods hand more present throughout. Something outside of Kevin’s control that brought him to a place of understanding God more. I think there are many ways this could’ve been done.

@The Chosen Sleuth, It is clear to many that God's power was shown through the entire thing, from the necklace that said "He Lives" which expresses the reality that because Christ died for us, all is not lost. And another message is that Christ, who conquered death and Atoned for sin is over all, and is in charge even in the darkest of times... Christ is there. That is the biggest message of all. Another showing of God's presence in this film is the goodness shown in the few who believed in light, in Christ. For example, the family who was Kevin's neighbor. They who chose to believe in light, in Christ even living in such a dark world, they wanted more of scripture because they wanted more light of Christ in their lives. This happens because both Kevin and the family are learning the principle taught in 1 John 4:16 (KJV) 16. And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. .... 17. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear... 18. We love him (God), because he first loved us. The manifestation of God's power in the lives of Kevin and this little family is plain as day. It does not require a larger then life moment. It is very touching, personal and effectively delivered. Another one that people might miss the first time they see it is the cat coming back to Kevin's friend, which was not orchestrated by anyone, not Kevin, not the Benefactor (Satan), only God could bring it back after so many years. It was teaching that God is in the details. Even the tiniest and almost insignificant of details. This is a huge blessing, one that we all should pray in gratitude to God for every day of our lives because it is such a big key point about God. Another big one is when Kevin is choosing Christ over his own selfish desires. This is manifested in the movie where he chooses to help Tina over his own will of rejoining his wife. It shows the transformation of the soul toward Christ, our Savior who is mighty to save. And save Kevin He did both body and soul! Just as was done for Job in the Bible. This was a big manifestation of God in the movie. Last but not least, a very obvious place to observe God in grand action is when the Benefactor (Satan) was getting angry and wanted to destroy Kevin, Kevin was lifted out of the depths of suffering (just as Job was) by God, not by his own deeds. With this great blessing Kevin was also blessed with a wife that loved the Lord, (Her song "This little light of mine" show this)In this new union God blessed Kevin exponentially, more then before. He blessed them with a precious children again, stability and happiness. Just as God blessed Job in the Bible. Kevin chose God but had no power on his own to do anything except belive on Christ Jesus and try hard to shine Christ's light in a dark and dreary world. Christ's power saved him and the show is filled with this message. If anyone missed it, thats ok, It's a fast paced movie, maybe go back and watch it again to find all of these wonderful messages.

No we critique in terms of truth, not preference. Just like we do with the chosen on a regular basis.

No, you do not. There’s quite a bit of a gap between your view of Jesus and the Biblical one. I encourage you to research this further. There’s also the extra texts you use in conjunction to the Bible and other specific beliefs that don’t align with the Biblical view.

So you guys believe Jesus is consubstantial with the Father?

Not at all. Jesus Christ is and was the virgin born God incarnate who has existed in all time with the Father and Holy Spirit in the eternal Trinity. As a man He possessed two natures -human and divine. He lived a sinless life and willingly died on the cross as a sacrifice for the sin of all humanity. (see John 1:1-18; 8:56-59; Phil. 2:6-11; Col. 1:13-22; Heb.1:3; 13:8). The LDS/Mormon Jesus was the spiritual “first born” Son of God in the preexistence. “Every person who was ever born on earth was our spirit brother or sister in heaven. The first spirit born to our heavenly parents was Jesus Christ, so he is literally our elder brother” (Gospel Principles [GP], p. 11).”And now, verily I say unto you, I was in the beginning with the Father, and am the Firstborn” (D&C 93:21). He is also the “only begotten” physical offspring of God by procreation on earth. “Jesus is the only person on earth to be born of a mortal mother and an immortal father. That is why he is called the Only Begotten Son” (GP, p. 64). His atonement (death and resurrection) provides immortality for all people regardless of their faith. “Christ thus overcame physical death. Because of his atonement, everyone born on this earth will be resurrected . . . This condition is called immortality. All people who ever lived will be resurrected, ‘both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous’ (The Book of Mormon [BOM], Alma 11:44)” (GP, p. 74). (See GP, pp. 11, 17-19, 61-77.)

I'm with you, friend. God knows our hearts. We should all be friends. Remember that we are blessed to live in a time and place where all are entitled to hold whatever opinions they choose and that their opinions are just opinions and do not keep us barred from the same Jesus who was born of Mary, the same Jesus who taught love, preached repentance and died for us all.

That's just clearly not true. I've spoken with the Director about this exact thing....The movie is a lose interpretation of Job. But even if it weren't, the character is written in a way that DEFINITELY leans into an LDS frame of Grace and relationship with God.

According to your own interpretation maybe. To me I think your just fishing for views based on a negative context@@TheChosenSleuth

It’s always important. Including the passion, we’ve spoken in length about the catholic add ins to that film.

Yeah I can’t fully have the conversation here, but fundamentally evangelical Christians and LDS have VERY different beliefs. It’s too far apart to be the same thing. It’s not a denomination of Christianity, it’s a different religion.

@@TheChosenSleuth Yeah we do, we're not a fan of Constantine the concour and his roman takeover of Christianity. .

​@@TheChosenSleuthyes, we are not a spin off of another Christian group, like "evangelical" Christianity, we are a restoration of the original Church of Jesus Christ, but Christians none-the-less. And after all you can do is equal to despite all you can do. We believe works show true conversion and should be acts of charity, the true love of Christ. Kind of like working hard to promote the Chosen and a gospel centered channel, it shows your sincerity and is a tool in His hands but not going to save you.

Additionally. Wherein this movie may have a line or two that seems close to a Mormon thought it is not surprising. Many scriptures in the Bible canon are clearly observable truths which are paraphrased or parallel in other belief systems simply because they are true.

Mormons (not calling the group saints) used to be up front about the distinctives and let rational people decide what they'd believe. There is a movement to gain acceptance as a "normal" expression of Christianity. Sorry, mormon doctrine precludes that. Those in the mormon system are coming for Christian flocks, and Christian leaders are responsible to protect flocks from false teachers. If evangelicals produced stuff as good as what ya'll are doing (seriously, great creative work going on over there!) but tried to pass it off as mormon to you- you would also sound the alarm.

We’ve been over this a bit over on the snipe life. My biggest complaint comes from how the Church treats Mary, but there’s so much to talk about there for sure.

I have no problem with LDS people. It’s the belief that you can Become God, the at there are infinite worlds that that infinite Gods control, and the fact that none of what they claim to be true has ever been verified by even 1%. I do not hate LDS, or have any bad feeling toward them. I have many LDS friends, but that doesn’t change the Truth. When I search for truth in evidence and the scripture I find Jesus, the God-man who lived in Israel, died in Israel and raised to life to be ascended and joined with the father in Heaven again. Not to come to North America, start the true church here and never leave and any evidence to that fact. I’d love to talk more if you have questions. Even my LDS friends said I was fair in this video.

Glad you found Jesus’s true church, Kelsea! The Spirit of God spoke to you and brought you to the truth!

Past presidents have always adamantly said LDS is not Christian. It's only in the last couple of decades that they've wanted to mainstream with Christians and look more like them. Blending in has been this weird thing they do and now so with movies.

@@dawnmwamba7418Why are you lying? It’s ALWAYS been called The Church of Jesus Christ because it’s ALWAYS been Christ’s church - and Christ’s church is absolutely Christian. What a stupid thing to claim otherwise.

Genders??

LDS are NOT Christians. 1. Mormon Theology is NOT Christian Theology. Mormons are Polytheists, while Christians are Monotheistic. 2. Their view of History is opposite to that of Christians. Mormonism not only rejects historic orthodox Christianity, the entire religion is based on the need for such repudiation. 3. Their view of Revelation is not that of Christians. Mormons believe the Bible (the KJV version), but do not consider it inerrant. 4. Their view of man does not align with Christianity. According to Mormon theology, men and women are the spirit sons and daughters of God. 5. They have an obscure and heretical view of God. Teaching there was a long procession of gods and fathers leading up to our Heavenly Father. 6. They have a blasphemous view of Jesus. And that immortality or Godhood Jesus possesses, they are inherited attributes and powers. 7. Their view of Atonement is lessened by works. And they emphasize simply that Christ somehow mysteriously remits our sins through his suffering. 8. Their view of Salvation: The goal of Mormon salvation is not about escaping wrath as much as it is about maximizing our growth and ensuring our happiness. clearlyreformed.org/7-reasons-why-mormonism-and-christianity-are-not-the-same/

What is the Holy Spirit according to LDS beliefs?

According to your false doctrine, the Messiah, Yeshua HaMashiach, or Jesus Christ, would be born in Jerusalem. That can be found in the Book of Mormon; Alma 7꞉10. Which means, you are disciples of a different Yeshua altogether. Because He was, according to the historical and Biblical account, prophesied and born, in Bethlehem. In keeping with the political climate of the 19th and 20th centuries, Latter-Day Saint founder Joseph Smith envisioned Jesus as white, as reflected in Latter-Day Saint texts and portrayals of Jesus. However, we know Yeshua was from the Tribe of Judea (Judah), which would mean He was of a darker complexion and had darker hair and eyes. Again, another false revelation by Joseph Smith. Then there is his prediction about the temple in Missouri. One he said would be built in his lifetime; nope, not until this generation did that happen. Are you aware of what God says about false prophets? Deuteronomy 18:22 "If the prophet speaks in the Lord’s name but his prediction does not happen or come true, you will know that the Lord did not give that message. That prophet has spoken without my authority and need not be feared." Also, Deuteronomy 4:2 “Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.” And we all know that Joseph rewrote the New Testament with the Book of Mormon, and added prophets to the Old Testament, prophets nobody in Israel had ever heard of. "If a prophet or someone who has dreams arises among you and proclaims a sign or wonder to you, and that sign or wonder he has promised you comes about, but he says, ‘Let us follow other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us worship them,’ do not listen to that prophet’s words or to that dreamer. For the Lord, your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul. You must follow the Lord your God and fear Him. You must keep His commands and listen to His voice; you must worship Him and remain faithful to Him. That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he has urged rebellion against the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the place of slavery, to turn you from the way the Lord your God has commanded you to walk. You must purge the evil from you." Deuteronomy 13:1-5 "and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which is described in this book." Revelation 22:19 covers the rest of the audacious things Joseph Smith did to pervert the Gospel. 7 HUGE fundamentals differ between Mormonism and Christianity. 1. View of History 2. View of Revelation 3. View of Man 4. View of God 5. View of Christ 6. View of Atonement 7. View of Salvation Mormons are Polytheists, while Christians are Monotheistic. Your gods were all human at some point and came from various planets. Zoltar to name one. And, they believe their good works can merit them becoming a god of a planet all their own. "I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city." Hosea 11:9, see God is NO man... only through His Incarnation in Jesus. That is in complete contrast to the Biblical narrative. As there is One God, the Eternal Creator of the Universe and everything in it. "The Christ followed by the Mormons is not the Christ followed by traditional Christianity. Many of the Christian Churches indeed worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshiped by the Mormons” - LDS General Authority Bernard Brockbank, 147th General Conference, The Ensign, May 1977 pg.26. Even your general authority admits you are following another Yeshua. And what does scripture say would happen in the "latter days", pun intended, "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." Matthew 24:24 Sorry, but I am commanded by my God, YHWH, to judge ALL spirits. So before you say I am not being Christlike, you should know that one of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit is the Discernment of spirits. 1 Corinthians 12:10 Just because you use His name, does not mean you are true followers of Yeshua. Jesus and Lucifer are not spiritual brothers, as Mormonism teaches. Satan was an angel, a creation of God Almighty, who tried to become a god and was cast down to earth for his pride. Well, thousands of years later, a mere human, Joseph Smith, claims he can become one! Humans have never been immortal. We were created. "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7 Your false doctrine teaches we are all God's children from everlasting to everlasting. But the truth is, before accepting Christ as our Lord, we are all enmity to God. Enmity. And our Good Works are but filthy rags before a Righteous God. Complete opposite of the lies you have been spoon-fed. Odd. That would make Joseph Smith an Anti-Christ for denying Yeshua's right to being God's Only Begotten Son. And for elevating Lucifer to god status. Mormons are as much Christians as Jehovah's Witnesses and Muslims. And the reason why more Mormons do not leave their faith is because of their apostasy laws. Mormonism requires blood to be shed if someone apostatizes from them... most false religions do. But the Bible says, "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace." Hebrews 6:4-6 See, no bloodshed, just disgraceful towards Yeshua.