Well I think Joel Gombiner is going to be an awesome addition to the geologic community. I think we can expect great contributions from this young man.
By the time he finishes his working career, imagine how much more we will understand. In my lifetime there have been many advances including plate tectonics, and many new technology tools. It’s an exciting time to be alive and part of it
You’re some guy Ryan. A whole lot of work for a few interested folk. Thanks for all the hard work capturing Bretzs notebooks and for Nick making them available for us zentnerds. 🐻
Huge shout out to Ryan!!! This is so awesome to be able to see what Bretz is looking at as he is coming to his conclusions and writing his papers. I am very much looking forward to the 1929 season notes when they roll around, and applying that to my own little turf here on the Malaga Moraine/ Malaga Slide and the 1930 Bretz paper. Thank you Nick and Joel for this interesting field trip!
I enjoyed seeing the overlay of the alluvial fans in the story of the floods. What a complex story from a landscape most people pass by without a second thought.
“That’s the idea that we’re testing.” That phrase is so refreshing to hear as a qualifying standard. There’s no “scientific consensus” or “the findings imply” or “this suggests” here that stops science in its tracks and where the occult begins.
Bretz' field notes on your site are indeed an awesome read. Much thanks for Ryan for making those field notes available to see. Great to see another generation of geologists like Joel providing more insightful study to the glacial flooding aftermath .
Wonderful to see a young scientist growing into his ideas! Honestly whatever Joel says, I want to hear! Many thanks to Ryan for the privilege of being able to see Bretz’s notes.
I can't tell you how much fun it is listening to two geology guys discussing the observations, discoveries and conclusions of another geology guy. This is beyond entertaining!
Was glad to hear Joel say something about needing LIDAR for this area/areas. Seems that would give a much clearer visual image than topo maps can. and possibly see things that otherwise appear hidden.
Thank you Dr Joel Gombiner for allowing Nick and us to tag along and witness your interpretations. The big discovery is that I've been mispronouncing TALUS for many years.
Just got to the part where he talks about Ryan going to Chicago. Way to go, Ryan! Thanks to you we'll be able to read the notes JHB made in 1922 and beyond. So much to learn!
Wow this guy with the Google maps on his phone is so excited to be searching the details for the questions researchers have so cool.! It makes it so interesting and I so appreciate the opportunity to view this level of field knowledge and expertise.!
I get the impression that Joel isnt deeply impressed by Bretz's findings. I'm with you Nick, the signs are fairly clear, what Bretz saw makes sense to me.
Thanks, Nick and Joel for clarifying a few things for me about this area. Thanks, too, Ryan from Springfield for all your work getting that data to us!.
Nick, the excellent interview / discussions with Joel Gombiner on the field!!💗💫 Thank you, Joel for showing us your geological perspectives on the megafloods and your thinking process!! It helps me to see how the current researchers like yourself can topographically view the Megafloods that happened in the past, see how Bret's work may have done similarly and / or differently...😉 Thank you for giving us awesome geology lessons, Joel!!💗💫
So we still have the big question, how do you get enough water into the top of Moses Coulee to strip out the lower sections and still leave enough topsoil all around the top of the coulee for wheat farming? The glacier had to be protecting the landscape from the floodwater. Was the water cascading over the top of the ice or shooting out of the face? Road I leads south from 172 into the very top of the coulee. The road cut where it joins road 11 and winds back uphill has non-basalt gravels in it. A nice view from the wheat field once you get up road 11 too.
Nice to see lots of different types of evidence in the landscape & soil/rocks/boulders to piece together the ice age history. E.G garnets in granite that narrow down where they did not come from. I hope someday a means of dating stacked flood deposit sequences is found and correlated back to Greenland ice sheet core data that tells the year by year temperature for the last 130,000 years. The individual floods might correlate to times when greenland ice temperatures had 100 year warming spells when glacial lakes were building up. The time between floods might correlate to 500 year cold spells when ice was building up. A math model simulating ice build up region by region using annual Greenland ice core temperature/precipitation data and ice age flood evidence might provide a compelling time line of ice age era geologic history (and climate history). Imagine if individual floods could be accurately dated by correlating their strata to Greenland ice core temperature warming/cooling trends. Then those strata layers could be used to correlate other strata layers such as volcanic eruptions. It’s a tall order, but if successful, flood strata could become the most reliable chronology reference for all kinds of glacial era events. The other potential source of reliable chronological data is ocean floor sedimentary cores. Imagine if ocean core data showed when the ocean current changed and reduced/increased warming the baltic/North Atlantic seas. This could be correlated to Greenland ice core temp data which also correlates to glacial flood data. It could all fit together to create a compelling picture
The idea of warming and cooling periods that overlay the Melenkovihc Cycle implies something having to do with climate that a lot people do not seem to like talking about. Specifically that there may be a cyclical process inside the Sun that varies solar output. Don't ask me what that is. But just how do we explain the upturns and downturns in climate lasting 100s of years. The time period is too long to be explained by volcanic activity. Understand I am not discounting the effects on climate due to human activity. But human activity may simply be re-enforcing the current climate upturn. A good example of this cyclical episodes may well be the periodic opening and closing of a mountain pass between Switzerland and Italy. I can't remember the name of the pass but it opened to foot traffic in the last 20 years or so. Around 2006 a Swiss woman was hiking in the pass and found an artifact. This turned out to be a quiver nade of birch around 4500years old. She turned the artifact over to the Archeology Dept at Bern University. A team from Bern went looking for more artifacts. And they found them. And they all match up to known warm periods. With nothing found from known cooler periods. Another th hing to consider is the ability to grow wine grapes in Britain. It is known that this was possible in previous periods. But was not possible previously. It certainly wasn't because of early fossil fuel use.
Solar cycles are a thing … the 11 year sunspot activity cycle, another cycle around 100 years. A NASA research paper found Northern lights activity recorded for centuries in Scandinavia correlated to Nile river levels also recorded for centuries. My guess is northern lights created by sunspot activity matched the 1% increase in radiated Solar energy, aligning the effect of northern lights with climate/weather effects due to a warmer sun. Alternately the Northern lights were energetic ions which influenced the ionosphere and thereby influenced the steering wind currents in the stratosphere which in turn disrupted the normal meanderings of the jet stream. The jet stream meanderings greatly influences weather. Century long variations in solar radiance are a thing. Astronomers are very familiar with some stars that cycle brightness periodically, I don’t know if any research was done looking to characterize stars like ours for long term variations in luminosity.
I think I remember Martin Rees, UK Astronomer Royal used to write about variability of the Sun being the more likely cause of the warming trend, when this argument was just getting going. I don't think he's a contrarian now though.
Excellent video as always, Nick! I loved the scientific arguments pro and con passing by. That's the way science works. Listening to and open mindedly considering several points of view and keeping in mind that some land forms can have several origins. This young man is going to be a great addition to the already great group of workers. And like he said : you're a real scholar, Nick! 👍
I am over camping at banks lake this week and with some of the new knowledge I've learned from your videos I have a new appreciation for the area. We stopped at a beach for a bit on Sunday that has a great exposure of flood layers. One layer had a wave to it, 2 different layers had a thin fine sand layer to it that was different to the rest which I thought was interesting. It was so exciting to see and be able to actually have some sense to what it actually was and means.
Joel, congratulations on your degree. I'm very impressed by your discussion in this video. You're working on Bretz's work and applying research and testing that is available today. This will lead to more information and help provide answers. I thank you for taking the time to share with Nick and all of us. Ryan, thanks for obtaining the notes and sharing with Nick and the rest of us. BTW, my mother was born in Springfield in 1914. She grew up in Jacksonville, where my grandfather was a doctor. I have been from Springfield to Chicago, That is a long drive. Therefore I really appreciate the effort you made in obtaining these field notes. This video shows that going out to the locations with Bretz's notes is important inquiry into the topic. It's a step into understanding, and evaluating, which hopefully will lead to answers to the geology.
Really is a good sport! You were pushing him. That talus slope is so interesting. If there is a way to ball park accumulation rates it would be nice. I guess it is freezing trapped water and cracking the basalt.
Again another great time! Thank you! I find it really cool that the railroads played such an important role in his research. Most of them took full advantage of the the pre carved routes, that follow the major pathways of these giant floods. Also providing plenty building materials ballast and gravel along the way! I’ve been trying to find records of Bretz ie passenger manifests and engineering records of RR construction! Again thank you!
Marvellous episode. Interesting guest who is clear and easy to understand while discussing both findings and theories. Hopefully he will teach in addition to his future field work.
Great stuff. Even though he doesn't seem on board with the whole Spokane flood of Bretz, it is important to hear other opinions of people actually doing the work in the field. If ideas can't hold up to criticism then the idea may need to be rethought.
Looked at the gps location, on the hills slightly above you to the South East of your position, there are linear strand marks almost to the summit at 2400. Where did all that water come from so suddenly? I do love a puzzle.
I would have thought Bretz had seen similar (or the same) Erratics high up as Joel reported, but Joel seems to indicate they are Wisconsin in age. Wonder why the disagreement in age/interpretation?
Agreed, but not to be a pain, don't know enough about this relatively new measurement. Error bands, measures most recent exposure right? Other factors I assume? Might be a 2-3 minute topic for Nick to include.
very educational,, curious, wouldn't the height of the wall and the material that falls off be more than the material on shorter walls leaving higher talus piles on the higher walls and vice versa??
here's one for you guys... did the Missoula floods simply push & roll pre-deposited flood boulders from previous ice age floods? Would that change the age dating on the sunshine spectrograph thingamabobber ??
Has anyone done a fairly large scale physical hydraulic model of these floods? That might provide some insight to the erosional pattern we see on the current ground.
Im curious if there is a correlation between the Flood lava flow and any exhumation by the flood IE Grande ronde flood vs elephant flow etc .Maybe better to say highest flow vs un covered flows thru flood erosion. Such that any alluvium would be much older,and are there any fans that are cut
my other question going back is this IF you have a higher "step" where the talus is higher up vs a "step" lower down where the talus is half as high . Doesnt the lower sloped talus represent the past 20k years vs the unknown time gone past of the higher sloped talus? The lower talus would have more RAINFALL draining into it because its the lowest in the valley
This was fun. Walking and talking, with time in between to absorb the insights. Thank you. Here is a challenge. Can you somehow tie in DB Cooper to geology? A gimmick yes but your viewership might surge if you put DB Cooper in the title. Could DB Cooper's money have traveled the Washougal washdown and be modeled similarly to flood waters dropping out boulders. Would the money land on the higher velocity shore or the lower velocity shore? Where should we look for the money?
If you erode the toe of a tallus slope, which subsequently collapses over the eroded toe, the final slope will be steeper than higher, uneroded tallus, I guess? One angle of repose, on higher terraces, and a steeper angle of repose on the next terrace down?
The first ten minutes, this is what the seabed of the English Channel, not 10 miles from me, looks like for exactly the same reasons! I still get an excited frisson of shivers thinking about it! 🌊🪨
@EasyEd02 yeah. Those dark stems with dusty green leaves at their ends are greasewood. Very tough. Not dry, springy stems. Dead stems burn with a dense smoke that smells like diesel. They vary from knee to 9 feet tall. Those are waist high or less. I hunted and fished that whole area for 50 years. It's one of the last places that is still open for use. Many areas have rules restricting vehicles, so it is still rugged.
Will you have Shawn Willsey professor from Southern Idaho College on your channel to talk about Washington/Idaho geology? He has a RU-vid channel. You might know him. Thanks Nick. Kenny the trucker from Oregon. 🚚🚛🪨⛰️😎
So at the very deepest is the first flood. Very violent one that left very large rocks and scrubbed channels. Then, smaller events left lighter stones. Slower moving left smaller stones. Then, other violent events cut channels in the deposits. But never as bad as the first time. So that tells me about an enormous lake was dammed by land at the outlet. One that couldn't happen again. Where the current river crosses the Cascades. The channel through the mountains didn't exist then. Until one day, an event broke a hole. Then, the lake drained into the ocean. That first wash carved the deep channel. Probably a lake from the Cascade to Blue Mountains, the on to the Rockies filled from the North.
Nick, you have likely heard this before. But it would likely be a good idea to wear a hat. It may not be stylish. But stylish scores no points under the desert sun. And don't forget the water. Sorry, by your shadow when you are walking with Joel l see you are wearing a hat. A boonie hat most likely. 👍17:30
Even if an impact event happened around the YD Boundry that would likely be a single event. Could their be multiple impact events related to a single short period comet? I suppose. But it becomes unlikely. In addition to increase the odds against this just what would the orientation of the Earths surface due to its rotation to the orbital track of the comet. Plus there is another problem. Temperature data show a clear warming trend during the Bolling-Allorod. That should have seen significant drawback of the Late Wisconsin ice sheets. We know that non crater forming impacts happen at a higher rate than previously thought. I can think of three significant ones in the 20th Century. Tunguska, another probable one in Brazil in the 1930s and another in Eastern Siberia in the late 40s. Upper Atmosphere detonations of bolides certainly show up on data from DoD early warning satellites. The last one l've heard of was over the Bering Sea about 2-1/2 or 3-1/2 years ago.
The real problem is the Younger Dryas comes after the Scabland floods. Even the youngest floods pre-date the Younger Dryas. It's a popular topic for sure but it has a lot of issues.
