Mosin-Nagant PU Sniper: Working With It At 300m 

I know this is a gun video, but the scenery is absolutely beautiful.

According to grandpa, Soviet snipers were issued specially “tuned” precision ammunition for field work. In urban settings, where the action was more intense, but, at relatively closer ranges, whatever ammunition was available would be used. The precision ammunition would be used for high value targets, like officers. Also check that scope mounting rail and bracket is properly tuned, this was usually done at the factory. Grandpa’s sniper rifle consistently takes deer at ranges out to about 275m. To get the best sniper quality results precision hand loaded ammunition might be needed. Factory loads usually give mediocre results. Good enough for plinking at the range.

I have a genuine 1943 Izhevsk PU sniper, all matching original scope, base, stock, bolt. Only force matched part is the magazine plate and a barrel band. With hand loads when I shoot at it doesn't wander in the slightest windage wise. The bullet drop compensator is also bang on. The barrel is very good. Strong rifling and mirror shiny. Nearly as nice as my 1951 K31. For accuracy it's amazing. At 100y nearly always under 3/4" groups of five. 200y 1 1/2 groups are the regular. 300y I shoot 2" groups often.I own another PU, a 1943 Tula PU. It isn't as good. It's a MOA most of the time, while my Izhevsk PU is sub MOA most of the time. I have shot a few other PU sniper (not reproductions, and with original wartime PU scopes) and the bullet drop compensators are all very accurate. So I am certain your scope is a big problem. I know you are an accomplished shooter. Now with Swiss rifles, you are very accomplished. They are both extremely different animals.Unless you shoot a PU often. or have shot one often you likely will have issues with it. No cheek hold. You have a chin hold instead! haha And overall it feels and shoots very different from any other scoped rifle from that era.Also if your rifle wasn't built by the Russian sniper builders of WWII it likely will never shoot like a genuine wartime Russian built PU. The Russians were masters at building sniper rifles. The people that scoff at that comment have never shot an original build PU in all stock form. They would have shot a Russian post war refurb mix master of parts tossed together. In the right hands a proper PU snipers cold shot will be a bulls eye every time. A hot barrel will not cause shots to go wide either. If there is a difference between your cold shot and a warm shot more than a bullet hole difference, your rifle isn't sitting in the stock properly. Or the barrel isn't supported proper or there is pressure on the barrel. Once you are comfortable and have put several hundreds of rounds through it at 300m it feels very natural and getting a consistent chin hold and same eye relief distance, the accuracy will astound you.The PU scope is an amazing scope. Very basic, yet extremely capable.

Hey Bloke, I know you’re all about the drill and accuracy standards of these rifles, so I thought I’d share some info regarding the type of target used and accuracy standards acceptable on the Mosin. This info comes from the “Operating Instructions for the Model 1891/30 Rifle and Model 1938 and Model 1944 Carbines” (yes that’s a mouthful lol) printed in 1961. Given its late printing date I’m not entirely sure if the pre war / war time soviet standards were different or not. :/ I will skip the more boring etiquette stuff like “platoon level commanders should be present during the zeroing” as I don’t think you’ll find that stuff too relevant and it would take too much space. Confirmation of the rifle’s zero is done at 100 meters with the rear sight set on “3” with the bayonet extended of course. (The Russian love of the bayonet was surpassed only by the Japanese it seems) The target is a white shield no less than one meter in height and half a meter in width with a black rectangle of 30 centimeters in height and 20 centimeters in width serving as the target. The point of aim is at the bottom center edge of the black rectangle. 17 centimeters above the point of aim a point is marked with chalk or pencil. This is the control point for the determination of accuracy. To confirm the zero, 4 shots are fired. A rifle’s zero is recognized as normal if 3 bullet holes (this test allows for one flyer) will fit in a circle of 15 centimeters in diameter and if the mean point of impact is no more than 5 centimeters in any direction from the control point. So I think we’re basically talking about a 6 inch group being acceptable accuracy which of course is abysmal by modern standards. I hope at least some of that was new info to you, although if everything I just said was stuff you already knew, than at least some readers might learn something lol :) I will also post the standards for the sniper rifles. Sorry about the wall of text..

I have an original refurbished Russian Mosin Nagant sniper rifle with matching scope made in 1943. I purchased it from Mitchell Sales. A great rifle that many German snipers used prior to being issued their own special K98-K sniper rifles later.

Sadly, the reproduction scopes don't seem to hold adjustments as well as the original scopes. From what I have read, the armorer's who setup the original sniper rifles practiced the science as much as the art of gun smithing.

So the Mosin’s scope is designed to be zeroed at the factory by grinding the mount. That might be your problem.

Beautiful scenery.

I've had an original 91/30 PU Sniper. 1943 if I remember correctly. It had been shot moderately and had probably taken human life. With the best handloaded ammo. in the world, mine. Barrel slugged at .311" and using a Hornady 174gr. 303/7.7 .3105 dia. it would shoot generally about 60 to 75% in 2 MOA and the rest generally pretty close. So it makes scope adjustment somewhat arbitrary. Just was with your PU the original has pretty much useless adjustments. No detents, and tiny adjustments made huge change in POI. To the point of being pretty much useless in an intended purpose. It did seem to stay pretty well zero'd once you got it where you wanted it. I even had the very scope you have there but never mounted it on a rifle. Sent it back because it has a loose lens. That PU is was the same as the original in virtually every respect. It's a really good reproduction. It works as good as a good origninal PU. I replaced it with a PE scope from the same company. It owrks pretty well. Mounted it on a 91/30 PU Sniper reproduction I built. Laminated 2 lug stock, basically as new barreled hex receiver. It would shoot 1.5 MOA with handloaded ammo and 2 - 2.5 MOA with surplus ammo. I'd send you a few pics, you'd dig it. PM me on my channel. ru-vid.com/show-UC6LNRBnweHTUI3J3_XJGgqg?view_as=subscriber

After attempting to zero a couple of faux Mosin snipers for friends, I immediately upon sight of one, instruct them to attempt to recover as much money as possible by selling it and find another rifle. One was so poor that I fired a group one evening, came back and fired a group the next morning, and then one that next evening and I ended up with 3 separate 3MOA groups that were not even remotely close to the point of aim. Although have have seen many Mosins that shoot better with the bayonets attached.

First thing , clean the bore of copper fouling. Next , polish the bore (from the breach). These rifles prefer heavy bullets. My best groups were with Speer 180 gr. RN .311 / .312. Seated as far out as max OAL allows. I got MOA.

We feel for you Bloke. Hang in there.

Thats the prettiest mosin i have ever seen

Does anyone know if the Soviet P.E.M scopes were better, I heard someone say that the P.U scopes were simpler and easier to produce and that’s the reason they switched, please correct me if I am wrong

As another Hungarian owner (in England) try reloads, mine gave 100m 1.010" 5 shot groups with 174 sierra .311 match kings, 45 gn N140, & privi cases. I was lucky all numbers match & original scope, it came via west German military arsenal. Bedded barrel and bolt like silk, hats off to those Hungarian armourers they had skills. Shoot it, enjoy it, look after it, only 2,000 issued according to the American forums I have checked. Very gentle in the shoulder, a joy to shoot. Pu creeps after 3 shots, but this is a non click scope & true use doctrine dictates relocate after 2, so no hassle to wind back and reset on range. Any other Hungarian owners in EU? Most I've heard of are Vietnam war bring backs in the US.

The key with these is to keep the heat down. 3 shot groups and then wait.

This is something I have found time and again, shoot as many brands of the same caliber through a rifle and you hope fully will find the perfect one for that gun . It depends on the powder load, projectile and even the case design that will effect the accuracy .

Ну молодец парень,разобрался!

I have a M. PU Sniper rifle original all matching parts . The stock has 175 notches.

I've been left there in my Tuxedo with PPU before. For some reason I can shoot hundreds of rounds of S&B from my Cabinet Queen SMLE and it groups fine and shoots comfortably. With PPU it feels like the headspace is out and it is all over the place. I stick to S&B.

It still fascinates me that countries put millions of their currency into training snipers and then never actually put real money into finding sniper rifle systems matching the skills they were ostensibly developing.

Hi, my Mosin from Bulgaria is way shorter and shoots like a watering can. But the muzzle flash ist superior and impressive. That makes it my loudest gun. I normally shoot Stgw 57 and Karabiner 11 and 31 on 300m. My best gun for the relatively short distance is a custom K 31 with a scope and muzzle break. And I like your videos. Gut Schuss.

Can you reload ammo in Switzerland? I've had bad accuracy with PPU ammo in different calibers. You can also buy PPU bullets as reloading components, bulk500 count plastic bags, but you have to weight them and sort them out to get decent accuracy. They have big variations in weight.

The ORIGINAL rifles with MATCHING scopes are 2 moa all day with type D heavy ball which the scopes were regulated for. (Yellow tip)

The PPU Match stuff is MUCH better than the standard fare. Here it runs around $30 a box, but I got a roughly 2" group at 100 yds open sights with my M91/59 carbine. I should think the PU would do much better. Also, the PU scopes, original and especially reproduction, vary substantially in the quality and tight repeatability of the drums. I had a reproduction attached to an M44 years ago (bought that way back around 1992, before I knew better) that shot surprisingly well, taking the insulation off a wire at around 120 yards. I've had others that wandered so badly that I had to use the open sights for shooting.

Bloke, I have a real PU and the scopes have different ranges built into them for 147 grain ball. You zero at 100 meters and it has built in adjustments for up to 1400 if you do it right. My mount is seized so i can only get mine adjusted for up to 1200, but it's not going to hit well at that range anyway.

I wonder if you could make a larger diameter cap for the elevation to allow for finer, more confident adjustments and maybe repeatable settings. It could be just a big removable disc to interface with the stock cap, use it to set the adjustment and then store it while shooting.

I own a legit PU sniper and it's quirky, but I can definitely see how the Soviets got the job done with it. In my case, I need to shoot it with different ammunition types to get a better feel for its capabilities. Very good video and the scenery behind you is outstanding. I live in Michigan and while we have fantastic lakes, but much of the lower peninsula is flat land. I love the scenery of your adopted country. Where did you shoot this content?

i had a mosin i shot sub moa groups at 500. it was sorterized and stuff but it was a really accurate gun (military surplus ammo to)

Well, the scope itself is substantially different from the original PU - it can have either 1 or 2mm thick reticle, there are 2 different sizes of the whole unit, and worst of all, even the supposed Mosin rifle variant of this sight (АЛ6.130.382) was designed to be used with 1944 carbine, not with a full lenght rifle. Oh, and since we're on that note, can anyone point me to any descent source on these 48M sniper rifles? All I get is they had a special prefix in the serial, but does that mean that they were a distinct design like pre-war Soviet sniper rifles, or they were just run-of-the-mill guns chosen via factory testing for their accuracy and fitted with new bolt and scope?

Need to accurize it. Put metal spacers and cloth on the barrell. Easy peasy .

Very nice mosin-nagant!

I've also heard that the soft ball ammo works much better, if you're shooting big game animals because it expands on impact.

I have an M91/30 that came with the scope and mount so I'm anxious to get it onto the range and see what's up with it. It looks like I'm not going to have a big choice of ammo for it so that will probably be my limiting factor on consistency and accuracy.

I am a little surprised you had an issue with the PPU, its what I shoot from my mauser when I'm plinking at 100-200, its not the best but for me its been very good

8" at 300m sounds pretty serviceable to me. And side by side, an original PU is a hell of a lot nicer to look through than a Weaver 330.

Put some PP through my tikka .222 & got a really lovely 1/4 choke pattern at 100m from a gun that prints sub 0.5 moa with hand loads. Nice to know it's not just me ;-)

Thanks Bloke, I would be interested to see how that Mosin would perform with a modern Schmidt & Bender (temporarily) attached!

Sniper rifles are sighted in without the bayonet but again, the rear sight is set at 3 and the elevation drum on the scope is also set to 3. Accuracy with the sniper rifle’s iron sights is recognized as normal if all 4 bullet holes are contained in a circle of 8 centimeters at 100 meters. (Apparently no flyers are allowed this time) and strangely enough, accuracy with the scope is held to the same standard as the iron sights. So all in all I believe the accuracy standard for a Mosin sniper rifle is pretty much on par with the standards for a standard Lee Enfield? I’m a bit fuzzy on the details of the standards the Lee Enfield and K98 were held to. I remember you had a video where you compared the two but for the life of me I can’t find it..

Hey Bloke....I have a "captured" 91/30 that I brought back from "across the pond" 51 yrs ago.still kicks like a mule... now there's a pad on the end... but when Lupua brass was 25.00 a hundred..I purchased like 500 cases brand new! how much today for a hundred???? Safe shooting!!!👏👏👏👏👏👏💪💪💪💪💪👌👌✌️✌️

180 grain PPU ammo shoots quite well in my 91/30 PU. I have a video of it on my channel titled (in very creative fashion) "Mosin Nagant 91/30 PU Sniper at 500 & 600 Yards (PPU Ammo)". 182 grain PPU shoots even better. The 150 grain not quite as well. What weight of bullet were you shooting? PPU makes several 7.62x54R loads (150 SP, 150 FMJ, 170 FMJ, 180 SP, 182 FMJ and 190 FMJ ).

Being from the US i have a general ignorance of firearm laws and firearm culture in other countries, but it seems that ammunition is a chore to get in quantity where you are. If this is so have you considered visiting the US for some of your firearms needs? I understand that transporting your firearms here just for the convenience of ammunition availability would be a nightmare, but i imagine there are a multitude of firearms collectors here that would give you free usage of their collection and would be thrilled to have you over for a visit.

( 1:55 been there, more than i would like to admit). however, the best grouping i got out of my mosin at 300 yards is barley the broad side of the barn, so i envy you.

iv never held a gun in my life (apart from airsoft lol) but id like to have a go on a range especially with a bolty of some description

Partizan is not a good brand. S&B is better, but not great, in my experience. To get better groups in my rifles both old and new, in 6,5*55, at least, I use Norma or Lapua ammo. Of coarse hand loads beat them all, as you already know. :) And it is pricy all over Europe. :'(

Nice Video, thx for sharing :-D

Put metal spacers on the screws brah. Then just peice of cloth between barrell and shroud.

I have over a dozen Mosins and some shoot pretty poorly with factory ammo, yet shoot great with reloads using Hornady .312 jacketed match bullets. (Yes Mosin haters, I said great)I am not impressed with any commercial 54r that I've ever tried, honestly. I have some that'll shoot spam surplus better than PPU, yet I don't consider PPU bad at all. The Russian Match corrosive surplus is great, too in the white and blue 20rd boxes. Too bad it's disappeared here in the states. My sewer pipe Finn M27 will only group with that particular ammo. A stock shim kit and maybe some removable (im a purist) bedding at the tang can do wonders for a Mosin with a decent bore that won't shoot worth a dang. I've also had great luck with cast loads. They like .312 bullets and I use up to .314 in some, depending on slug results. Russian Mosins are very inconsistent...

Perhaps this has already been brought up, but is that scope in any way adjustable for parallax? I'm wondering if some of these flyers might be exacerbated by a changing eye position behind the scope. Obviously we're using old wartime barrel technology here so accuracy may not be the greatest overall, but my experience with x54R is that the amount of recoil makes it difficult to achieve the same eye position each time - especially given the amount of cheekweld (chinweld, really) that the Mosin mount presents. Regardless, you might try putting a scope cap on the rear eyepiece with a tiny aperture drilled through it and see if the groups tighten up. Just a thought. Very much enjoy your channel and humor.

Something strange???,have you ever shoot 300m groups with any other rifle, my hunting mauser 98 in 30-06 cal shoot 21 cm 3 shot groups at 300m with 4xscope and S.Belot SPCE ammo.Mosins are old and ruged but Mosins are accurate :=)

I really want to get a straight-pull bolt action or an SMLE. What is a good source to get a specific rifle rather than hoping beyond hope for it to appear in a local gun shop?

Why Mosin Nagan ?! Sergei Ivanovich used only some minor developments of Nagant, as other gunsmiths did and are doing, the main design of the rifle, its main parts, were invented by Mosin. For that matter, call the Remington rifle the Remington-Mauser rifle, or Winchester Model 70, Winchester-Mauser Model 70 rifle, on it the bolt is almost like on Mauser 98 and that would be correct. In Russia, we call this rifle the Mosin rifle, without any Nagans. With friendly greetings from Russia)

The factory ammo is unbelievably bad in the rifle (somehow?) It's consistently caused jams before I switched to better quality.

Were the PP and S & B rounds theoretically the same? Same weight of bullet and charge? From what I have read about German and Soviet snipers in WW11, they were more like what we would now call a designated marksman than a sniper. They looked at 300 - 400m shots as long, They weren't trying to engage targets at 800-1000m.

Interesting. That may be explains the Russian scope picture being so complicated on their military scopes

so is that russian 7.62 x 54 or the finnish 7.63 x 53mm?

Did that scope mount hold zero when dismounted for transport?

Just weld a picatinny rail to the receiver and install a S&B PMII. Job jobbed.

Want MOA out of your Mosin? One shot groups. Works every time. Ha ha!

How does PPU 7.5 Swiss compare to GP11? GP11 has dried up in the US at the moment

Whats a box of SB 7.62x54R cost in Switzerland? It's about $19 give or take a buck.

How much does the S & B 7.62 x 54R cost in Switzerland? In the U.S. it runs about $23 USD a box on average, maybe a bit more for the match grade.

scope doesnt have parallax compensation and the cheek weld is very low. is it possible that is throwing your accuracy out a bit. if you solidly mount a camera to the scope, that should cancel parallax error and give you a better idea of the accuracy.

Will it be possible to shim the mount to get it to be a hang-on zero?

All PU scopes have very stiff turrets. There isn't any notches or clicks.

Original Finnish sniper w/ PU bought 30 yrs ago...#7105xx..

You talk of shooting 800 or 1000 meters, when does that happen?

Hi Bloke on the Range. Which shooting range is this?

Prvi is the Remington of European ammo.

Where is this place? Wo ist dieser Schiessplatz in der Schweiz?

Btw, can you get 7n1 in Switzerland?

What's that accent? You must be shooting the only gun in England! Yes, just watched the TFB Christmas video. Hehehe... I gotta say that background almost looks like a picture it's so perfect. But of course it's real. ☺️⛰️

The rifle is handicapped by the ammo and the optics.. while S and B is ok you should try some Norma ammo or handload yourself

When are you going to get a real rifle......(mayday-mayday, going down-going down ) Hehe, thx for sharing. Very nice realistisk vid and shooting. -Contrary to a lot of the statements floating around. Merry Xmas to you n your familie, w wishes that they can do w/o you much more - so we can get even more vids from you 👍

Yeah, Prvi Partizan isn't worth the bother. I had an ES over a chronograph of 200 m/s when I tried it a few years ago, and from what I hear, that's about par for the course. I don't consider it good enough for government work, and wouldn't even use it for IPSC competitions...

Where is that range? How is it called?

You are not supposed to hit postage stamps at long range. You are supposed to be able to hit a man-sized target.

I'd take a Finnish M39 with open sights over an authentic PU at any range.

some guns like some food better than other foods...

So I wasn't an idiot to buy match grade ammo for my Springfield stainless match grade barrel and trigger M1A1? I know tools don't make the Craftsman but it should be a good start. Time to find a 300 yard club?

Where do you live because I am English and there is nowhere that I know of to shoot gun And do you know any website or shop that sell SMLE rifles

50m is bayonet range with a mosin

2" moa at 50m is appalling , why on earth would you think you've got anything remotely approaching a "sniper rifle" with that kind of accuracy ? My 1872 original Ballard shoots 1/4 inch groups a 50 meters (benched with iron sights) and it's a .22 using standard vel.

What are the laws for Switzerland if you want to shoot on public land or hunt?

I think you need to shoot hot Russian surplus Ammo.

BotR, who do you imagine would have been 'dialing-in' scope adjustments on their sniper rifles back in the 1940-50s?? Answer (cos I suspect you'll struggle with this) no one; that's who! All sniper shooting back in the day would have been 'aiming off' to one extent or another. Scopes of that period were simply not reliable or repeatable enough for any of that sort of 'modern' carry on.

ok mate you know you now have to shoot this in a tux with flowers, or maybe shooting the flowers....

Bloke you probably just can't shoot. My standard issued Mosin shoots sub MOA groups at 300m easily. While standing. Get good. Kid.

Interesting. My Finish Mosin likes PPU more than S&B, except their overpriced Sierra Match King line. The "Partisanenmuni" brass is more sustainable for reloads.

Its the ammo pal..u need to.load your own to get best out those old girls...ppu is utter rubbish

moisten Nugent

No time for PPU, it's trash.

Please get to the Point

Saw Hickok45 hits 250 yards ....And he doesn't really practice shooting at that range.Problem is state of your gun,ammo for it.You should know that even premium ammo acts up differently with different guns and Mosin requires certain ammo to make the best of it

I am from pubg

I hate you .... I'd love a Hungarian one .... I seen only 1 for $2,000 but I'd only do it on a layaway

As a rule repro scopes can be hit and miss , Chinese the worst , Ukranian very good , Russian good to bad depending what factory made it . I have Vomz and Zenit good and Ukranian very good , Chinese pu repros terrible .

Damnit i liked, but saw that took likes from 303 (thats numberwang) to 304 (which clearly isnt) . So i unliked. (Bloke i like, but 303 is a magic number)

You talk to much, show your shots to see more accurate of the rifle