Mother Goes to Jail for Son's Shooting 

Will this case lead to more charges against parents?☕ Get your first bag free with Trade Coffee legaleagle.link/trade ⚖⚖⚖ Do you need a great lawyer? I can help! legaleagle.link/eagleteam

"I'm an alcoholic with anger issues and I'm hallucinating." "okay, here's a gun."

The "I would not have done anything different" was probably the nail in the coffin

When Ethan was arrested and charged, instead of going to the police station to support their son and face what he did, the parents went on the run. They knew they were guilty before the case ever went to trial.

When she was on the stand and said that she wouldn't have done anything different. That sealed her fait. My nephew is one of the students killed that day. I hope she rots in prison. She has no remorse about the shooting. She only has remorse that she got caught or has been inconvenienced by this whole incident.

“Can you at least reply” is a text a child should NEVER have to send their parent

When she says she "never heard her son request a therapist" she's probably telling the truth. He said it; she didn't hear it, because she didn't listen nor did she want to listen.

Being from Oregon, I have met people who knew the family of Kip Kinkle who committed a mass shooting at Thurston High School. His parents did try to get him help and were unable to. Kip killed his parents before committing murder at his school. The Crumbley’s were not the same. They actively sought to provide their son with a gun. They are responsible for their son’s actions that day.

Can't believe I'm saying this, but you begin to feel bad for the shooter - begging for help until you broke, and now your parents are each on trial, saying that you breaking was inevitable and there was absolutely no way they could have helped you

"I wish my son was into normal things" *buys him gun* The lock combination was '0000' I'm about to scream

She wasnt convicted for CAUSING him to do the shooting. She was convicted for ALLOWING him to do the shooting.

This was the right call here, in THIS specific case. The parents ignored his warning signs, his calls for help, *bought for him* the pistol that he could not have gotten himself (if he had to get it illegally, may have been caught trying), left the pistol unsecured for him and refused to take him out of school when the school said to because they had "other things" to do. This was depraved indifference toward their child and the consequences of that, especially with him matching so many of the mass public murderer profiles highlighted in so many new stories. That's not precedent for ALL cases, just this one and any others like it on a case by case basis.

She wasn't convicted for "bad parenting" i.e. that's what could have caused him mental duress to the point he wanted to commit violence... she was convicted because she enabled, or almost basically aided and abetted him in this act. She GAVE him the gun with which he performed the shooting. She DIDN'T pull him from school when he threatened violence in his drawings and literally wrote "please help" mere hours before he committed the crime. She DIDN'T tell him to stop looking for ammunition, just to "not get caught" while doing so. I mean... helloooo???

I think this case is unique because not only did the parents not STOP their kid, they bascially encouraged him by buying him a gun, knowing he was making threats in school.

The voices won't stop. Please help. If EVER there was a cry for help, this is literally it.

Once again, I cannot comprehend why a 15-year-old would even need a gun in the first place. It might be that I'm not from the US, but to me, kids shouldn't be allowed near a firearm.

This is textbook child neglect. I’m glad my parents listened to my cries for help.

If politicians want to increasingly push "parental rights", as in parental control over their children and their education (or other areas of their lives), then they also have to accept that this makes parents increasingly liable for the actions of their children.

Every child deserves parents, But not every parent deserves a child.

You know you've got a losing case when someone says, "But think of the precedent about holding people accountable!"

My aunt is retired now, but she spent her career as a school counselor. In 1998 her best friend Faith Kinkel was murdered by her son, along with her husband. Kip then proceeded to his school where he shot up a bunch more people. 2 more died. She had to go to work and help kids deal with the event shat shoe could hardly deal with herself. She doesn't talk about it much. But she is interviewed in the documentary they made about this shooting. Remember when school shootings were so rare it justified not only a 3 minute segment on the news, but an entire 1 hour long documentary?

We can't fix stupid, but we can give it a court date

She brought her mentally disturbed teen to shooting ranges and bought him a gun and left it out with blatant signs he was thinking of shooting people... I don't think a properly responsible parent would have duplicated those choices.

I volunteer in a diversion program for kids and young adults. It's shocking how many of the kids in trouble either didn't have parents or have terrible parents. Parental responsibility is paramount to keep not just your kids safe but everyones kids safe.

Yeah, I think the defense kinda did not recognize that the argument is gross negligence. Cause when you say "I didn't know he was a danger to others, I never heard him say he needs a therapist," that only doubles the problem. It shows a distinct lack of necessary care. Kinda funny to me I guess

Their son was literally begging for help and she just dismissed him as weird. If you're not going to take care of your kids then DON'T HAVE KIDS.

“There’s nothing that could have been done to prevent the shooting” What??? You bought your kid a gun and then didn’t lock it up properly. wtf? That’s like baby’s first gun safety rules.

"School shootings are not unusual in this country." That should never have been a true statement EVER. It is proof of how this country has fallen with little hope of recovery and it's why I hate being part of it. The wrong people are being blamed, but whatever. This country is out of control.

I'm glad her negligence was recognized by the jury.

The defence *really* went with the "‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens" Onion attempt for closing arguments? That's insane.

Bloody hell. There's a reason I believe the parents are at fault: When I was in middle school (So, in the mid-90's), a teacher caught me doodling deathtrap mazes on some paper. Just lil stick figures in deadly mazes. She, of course, told my mother. Mom asked me if they were meant to be anyone I knew, to which I replied "No. They're just stick figures in deadly mazes." She asked why I was drawing stick figures dying. I...honestly had no answer. It was just something I felt like doodling. She then asked if I ever imagined any of the people who bullied me being those stick figures. The idea actually made me feel bad to consider. Like, to the point of actually feeling a bit sick about it. And I said so. Her reply? "I believe you. But I still feel it would we best if we talked to a therapist, ok? Maybe something's going on that not even you are conciously aware of?" A+ parenting, in my book. She let me know she accepted my answers, was on my side, and also gave **me** the choice to accept going to a therapist, while giving a valid reason for going. So I did not feel attacked or alienated or ignored. The therapist did not find anything alarming, and I quickly grew out of doodling stick figures in deathtraps. 😁 The parents in this case actively ignored red flags (and their son in general), and then try to claim "We never saw it coming!" Well NO CRAP! You were ignoring the source of the red flags; YOUR FREGGING SON!

I grew up GenX, and got bullied a lot in school. So many times, my father would put on his police uniform and go visit the parents to have a talk. Without exception, in every single case, this did NOTHING to move the parents and only made things worse by causing the bullying to escalate. When I finally fought back to defend myself, I got in big, big, serious trouble. The bullies NEVER got into this kind of trouble. Too many "parents" seem to just "have children," in the same way they "have a dog," when they chain it to the far corner of the back yard and leave it to rot.

I am on the 7 minute plus time mark and what I'm thinking is this mom wanted her kid to delete himself. 😢

"there is no way to stop that" says the only country that has this problem

This is something that sounds insane and unreasonable when you first hear it: "parents sentenced to jail for son's crime". But then you hear the actual details of their (in)actions, and you 100% agree.

"She began her opening statement with, 'Bandaids can't fix bullet holes'...that was a CHOICE." I love the lawyer shade ❤

These so-called parents were horrifically negligent and the fact that they stole their own kid’s bank balance when going on the lam after Ethan was apprehended speaks volumes about their despicable selfishness. Their son was clearly suffering for a prolonged period, exhibiting severe depression & obviously psychotic episodes. They were themselves so emotionally juvenile, self-involved, and callous-into-cruel in ways that probably not only exacerbated his emotional distress and suicidality but encouraged him to emulate their behavior patterns of repressing perceived vulnerability/weakness in favor of embracing contempt and aggression towards others. Providing the weapon was part of their imbecilic philosophy of acting cold and tough and “manning up” and denying/masking underlying psychological decline. Ethan arguably didn’t have a chance given the “parents” he depended on who seemed to have no idea how to do anything but fail him over and over.

“You never would think you have to protect your child from harming someone else.” That’s the biggest pile of garbage in this whole thing. Of course you do. Most parents aren’t going to buy their kids guns, but most parents are going to have their kids drive. And they are absolutely responsible for making sure their kids aren’t menaces on the road. This is an outstanding verdict, she was absolutely negligent in this case, even buying the gun in the first place was crazy given his history, but completely dropping the ball on all supervision is unforgivable.

Literally PLEASE HELP. Literally a cry for help, dismissed after an 11-minute conference. And then he shoots a school. That is absolutely gross negligence. The fact that they bought him the gun and put it behind a code of "000" is just icing on the cake.

Defense really looked at a certain Onion article ("No way to prevent this, says only country where this regularly happens") and went "that might work as a defense"...

I fall on the side of 'more parents need to be held accountable for negligence of not properly preventing their kids from accessing guns/weapons.' Like its one thing if your kid goes completely behind your back to track down a gun on their own, or if you have proper safety mechanisms in place and they figure out how to get through them. But the lock's code was 000, come the fork on. At best, that's child neglect right there.

opening with "bandaids don't fix bullet holes" in a case of a school shooting has got to rank up there with one of the worst opening lines in a court case ever. I wouldn't say it's the worst but it's got to be up there.

Several years ago, my son had a slightly similar situation at school where I was called in for some disturbing writings. Neither the school nor I believed he was a danger to others but we were concerned about him harming himself. They MADE me take him home and have an evaluation done by a mental health professional before he could come back to school. I would have done it anyway because who wants their child to have that kind of pain. Seeing Ethan's writing where he is begging for help and the parents laugh it off fills me with rage. Not only did the allow him to kill 4 other people, but they also destroyed his life by being so selfish and self serving.

I know what he did. I am aware of how awful it was. But as someone who has dealt with mental issues, albeit focused on harming myself, I cannot help but to feel immense sorrow for that kid.

I have never seen a more open and close case of parental negligence in my life. The school called them about his behavior, he was looking for ammunition at school and the parent's response was "did you show them the gun at least" and "learn how not to get caught". Their son clearly needed help and instead of addressing it and getting him any kind of help they ignored it. There are red flags and then there's this trail of behaviors which were clearly building to some kind of violent outburst, the only question being whether the target of it would be himself or the people around him.

As a former teenager, I can attest that parents need to keep their own guns safely locked away in a manner that teens can’t easily get them out. There’s no legitimate reason to give kids their own gun unless it’s a water gun, BB gun, or non-working replica. I sincerely hope this encourages all parents to be more responsible with any dangerous weapons and to be more attentive in their children’s development.

Finally, parents are being held responsible for negligence

The boy wondered why he was even alive...and the parents bought him a gun

As a grown adult I can't even joke with my mom about me buying alcohol without her assuming the worst and trying to stage an intervention. This kid's parents really decided the best thing for their troubled teen was buying him a gun and teaching him to use it?!?!

I also remember the case of the 6 year old who shot his teacher. Parents need to be responsible for their children. Their hands are not clean on this matter.

"You never would think you have to protect your child from harming others" YES! Yes you should absolutely teach your kids it is not okay to hurt others! This should be one of the first social lessons taught, usually around the time they are showing jealousy or retaliate for not getting their way (the terrible twos).

something to understand when it comes to bad parents is that the really bad ones never own up to their kids shortcomings because they think its their shortcomings "what? my son is disturbed? no no im a brilliant parent so he must just be joking!!"

"No way of knowing" LMFAO insane statement for her to make when they'd begged her to bring him home that day.

She actually said her son was a mistake. WOW that’s brutal.

This lady didn't see the warning signs, she flat out ignored them. This is absolutely painful to hear every single way she just never paid a single ounce of attention to her son. Heartbreaking it came to lives being lost.

I have walked in some of shoes. My son was told to seek immediate psychological assistance. At that time, I went to my father who owned a considerable gun collection and told him to be careful and not allow my son access to them, He received care over several years and is now has a great job and is relatively well, That parent failed her duty,

The straight delivery on "That was a choice" had me rolling.

That child was literally asking for help, and yet their response was to ignore him. The only reason why she wished it was done to them instead is because she doesn't want to take responsibility for her failure.

The audacity to claim she did the best she can as a parent while ignoring her child's concerns, texts and out looking for hook ups with other men aside from her husband at the same time. Sicken

Parents need to be held accountable for this kind of absentee parenting. Being busy at work, struggling to get along is one thing. Going horse riding and ignoring your son, but buying him a HANDGUN and letting him get drunk is not excusable. There might not be an easy fix for some childrens problems, but preventing their access to firearms as far as possible is one step any parent can take.

I think its interesting that people who who strongly support parental rights over their children's autonomy are among the same people who believe that parents shouldn't be held responsible for negligence.

Oh no, bad parenting has legal consequences now. People have to do actual parenting. The horror!

The saddest thing is if the kid had gotten the mental health help he needed (and wanted), this tragedy could have been prevented and he could've had a normal future. Be a parent to your kids. Listen to them, take them seriously and also set healthy boundaries.

Duuuude... One of the worst mothers I've ever heard of. Disgusting. The poor kid. Not even surprised he did that shooting, given his horrible parenting. She needs to be locked up for life.

Under the circumstances, I would say finding her not guilty would have set a far more dangerous precedence.

I struggled with severe depression as a teenager. When I was showing signs of being a risk to myself, even my tiny antique pocket knife I used when camping and was otherwise left on display was taken away, nevermind access to a gun! I don't know how a parent could read what he wrote and not think he was at high risk of using the firearm to kill himself, if not others. They clearly didn't even care if their own son lived or died.

"Nothing could have been done, it was unforseeable", said in the country where shootings are a *very* regular occurence and virtually nothing is done to stop them.

To me, it comes down to the fact that these parents knew that their child needed mental health treatment (the school told them so), but they shrugged it off and let him have a gun. That's the point where it becomes criminal. I don't think that this legal theory will be used to criminalize "bad parenting"--it's for people who knowingly enable potential killers whether they are parents or not.

Pretty clear, cut, and dry negligence. Glad they seem to be getting the book.

About time parents get punished for negligence and just sheer ignorance.

Parents could argue that such an event was impossible to foresee before Columbine, but not after dozens of school shootings and so many children and teachers killed. How could anyone forget that US schools have active shooter drills?

Sounds like the parents ignored, among other things, a person experiencing frequent schizophrenic breaks.

The only thing more insane than the parents, especially the mother, is the fact that the kid gets locked up for life. He needs help, not a life in prison. Sure he should go to prison for 10, 15 or even 20 years, but accompanied by intense treatment. This is a case where the kid tried his best to reach out to his parents to get treatment because he struggled and they just flat out ignored all the cries for help. He is only 15 years old for heavens sake!

There is a huge gulf in negligence between a disturbed child getting access to a family gun (we can argue that they should better secure guns in a safe) and BUYING A HANDGUN for him.

I’m 24 years old and I’ve never shot a gun in my life. Maybe the problem is with parents treating guns like toys. _And yes, I absolutely believe that buying a teenager a _*_gun_*_ as a present is a seriously bad and stupid idea._

The jury absolutely got it right on this. As much as I don't like the idea of it being used as a weapon, I disdain the idea of not being able to hold gross negligence accountable.

Sociopaths raising a sociopath. The kid never stood a chance...

The thing that stands out for me is her statement that she "wouldn't do ANYTHING differently." Really? Nothing? People are dead, and they're looking at you for accountability and answers, and the most you can think of is "nope, nothing" ?!! I know it's not a legal argument for this, but it sure makes it hard to keep personal feelings out of it when these are the attitudes and behaviors of the parents. I think most shootings have an element of "this could've been prevented" and even in this case, where the parents are so wholly unlikeable, I struggle with legal accountability with MANSLAUGHTER charges.

I am confused. My whole life I was told that a minor is not legally responsible for their actions and that the parents are unequivocally responsible for their minor child's actions. This conviction doesn't set a precedent, it follows it.

Teen: There's a ghost in the kitchen, I am not joking, please contact me. Mom: He's got a sarcastic sense of humor, I thought he was kidding. He... Literally said he wasn't??? What??? Like honestly this makes his journal saying "they won't listen to me saying I need help" believable because there's literally evidence of him asking for help and being ignored. Also re: "if my child sexts another teenager, am I guilty of child pornography?" Maybe not. But if your child has access to alcohol in your home and your car, the school calls you into a meeting saying "we're concerned that your teenager has a drinking problem", and then a few hours later your kid gets into a drunk driving accident that kills 4 people... Yeah, I do see how a parent would be held responsible for that. "It was my husband's job to lock up the guns" I'm sorry, is this not your home? Your property? Your child? I can understand the concerns about setting dangerous precidence and all, and I dunno why the mom having an affair matters in this case. And someone having mental health issues doesn't mean they're going to be a mass shooter (I have mental health issues myself, and do worry with the stigma stuff like this causes when it's treated as just a mental health issue when statistically we're more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators). But if I was a juror given a bunch of evidence of a teenager asking for help and being ignored and laughed off, and then the parents gift him a gun, like... It would be hard not to consider them at least somewhat responsible? Like, my parents weren't always perfect, but I can't imagine them completely ignoring me if I was telling them as a teenager that I was frightened and needed them to contact me. They didn't understand my mental health issues as a kid but they also didn't IGNORE me, they tried to educate themselves and then went "well, it doesn't seem like depression?" (It wasn't exactly, I'm bipolar, so I get it.) And they made sure I knew they loved me, when I told them I was suicidal they talked to me and tried to find ways to make me feel better and understand why I was struggling. I just don't understand how I parent could respond to their 15 year old telling them they were distressed and just going "eh, not a problem."

I’ll admit when I first heard about charging parents I thought it was just a scare tactic and ultimately fruitless. I’ll admit I was dead wrong. Buying your troubled son a gun is about the worst parenting decision I have ever heard.

HOLY HELL. As somebody who had a neglecting mother, this is absurd. At least my mother *pretended* to give a damn and paid for a sub-par therapist; this atrocious excuse for a parent didn't even try. At first I was hesitant to agree that she should've been convicted, but now I'm just sad she wasn't convicted for general neglect of a child as a whole.

Oh my god. What an awful person!! Not only did this mom ignore his son's literal "Help me" message in a test. Not only did this mom try to hide from police. Not only did this mom consider the death of a grandparent, the death of a pet and bad school grades to be nothing that required mental health counseling. Not only did this mom buy her mentally unstable child a gun. Not only did this mom talk awful about her kid to friends and strangers. Did this person do anything for her child? Like, what the hell.

the amount of kids i grew up with that were oopsie babies and had so much less love then they needed makes her negligence totally believable.

Genuine question as I’m not American. Is it normal to give a 15 year old a handgun as a present? I mean, even when they aren’t troubled, 15 years olds don’t exactly make the best decisions. 😬

This is not unprecedented. They basically made a straw purchase that resulted in 4 murders. She is getting off very light.

The mother sounds not merely negligent, but doing everything she could to facilitate what happened. Very glad she’s being held to account. As should the father be. Presumably he was also egregiously ignoring his son pleading for help. Hopefully her lack of remorse and refusal to recognise how poor - or virtually non-existent - her parenting was is taken into account in her sentencing. I don’t think the verdict implies that the parents caused the crime to happen, more that they failed to take reasonable action to prevent it. I’m not from the legal community, but do know there’s a significant legal difference. So I don’t see how the protests that it sets a precedent about a parent causing their son’s crime can hold water. They ignored warnings from the school and from their child. They ignored the most basic safety measures with firearms and ammunition. They had so many opportunities to take simple actions to prevent this tragedy, and ignored them. It certainly looks from the outside like they didn’t love their son, but that does not absolve either of them of their duty of care and responsibilities as parents. Adoption is simple in the US (certainly compared to the nightmare it is in Australia), so if they didn’t want the responsibility they had an easy out.

Once you hear all the details of the kid’s mental illness and the neglect for YEARS you realize just how guilty these parents are.

I taught in public schools almost 25 years. Parents can be crazy. The school requested parents take him home, they refused. How could the school send him back to class without even checking the backpack?

It's so frustrating that these crimes continue to be committed and only now are the courts finally looking towards the source of the issue instead of what everyone sees on TV.

The fact that they had nothing positive to say about their son is heartbreaking. But what blows my mind is he is telling them he is suffering and in pain and begging for help and THEY DON'T RESPOND! I can't *imagine* not responding to *any* message from my child never mind one where they are begging for help! I am appalled and my heart breaks for that kid. It hurts for him so much. He just wanted help and he wasn't getting and had a mental break and destroyed so many lives in the process. I'm so glad these parents are going to jail. I hope they are there a heck of a lot longer than their son is.

How any parent can claim no responsibility when they have armed a child is beyond me. And how a lawyer can claim nothing could have been done to prevent the murders when at the very least the parents could not have supplied the weapon and once supplied it they could have insured it was safely stored.

She didn't pull the trigger, but she literally put the gun in his hands.

My family was very pro gun when I was a kid Dad bought a bb gun to teach us gun safety, only used it with him around as he would lock it up with the other guns in the safe. That was back in the 90s so it's not like people didn't know shit could happen.

Poor kid probably just required psychological help but was denied that by his parents. Now he ended up making a mistake that he could never live up to

I just had a small epiphany regarding how people see things!!!! My brother-in-law had been living at my ex-wife's house for a few years. He had Diabetes as well as Irritable Bowel Syndrome, IBT. They'd been cruising along and he kept getting worse. I, as an outsider, could only go along with her descriptions and told her that he needed serious outside help! She, living with him, simply grew to think that everything was normal because she'd endured it all bit by bit! I finally went over to help out a little until I saw the full-blown fiasco he had become and she never noticed!!!! I told her that he needed to get to a hospital ASAP and that he needs tobe admitted! She totally denied that and said I was overreacting! Well, after ten day in the hospital and another two weeks in rehab, she has finally come around on his treatment and that I'm not quite the moron she always though tI was...

Can someone explain in what twisted universe a parent buys their minor child a gun?

Did I hear that correctly? The defense attorney successfully kept the affair out of the case. Then messed up questioning a witness, allowing the affair to be brought into the case, and then afterwards is moaning about how it never should have been allowed?

This woman is such a narcissist, she doesn't deserve the title of Mother. She didn't care about her son, she didn't care about his struggles, all she cared about was herself. She actually seemed *annoyed* that the school wanted to talk about her son because it distracted her from what she wanted to do. I hope when I become a parent, I'd take my kids' mental health seriously.

12:19 “‘There was no way to predict this’ says only country where this happens regularly”