One item overlooked: chains can be repaired on a trip. This can be important off road. Carry a couple of links and a pin pusher; they are small. A ripped belt means you are in trouble.
@@larrydlam Yeah, I don't really know why more Adv bikes aren't made with shafts. I have had only one bike where I changed the sprocket size. most people are fine with the factory ratios.
I absolutely love seeing Craig in videos. He always brings a wealth of mechanical knowledge. Thank you for the lesson on the difference between the three types of power delivery. Could he do more videos like this or maybe some tutorial videos?
I've owned all 3. Shaft is probably my favorite by a small margin over belt. The only thing that sucks is if you do have a shaft issue, it's going to be a pricey fix. I currently own a belt drive and love the low maintenance of it. My previous bike was chain driven, and man I hated always having to clean and oil the chain, and even then it would still wear out. For tinkerer's it makes the most sense, but for me, I just want to ride.
IVE BEEN DRIVING A SHAFT DRIVE FOR A DOZEN YEARS, I CHANGE THE GEAR OIL AT THE SCHEDULED TIME AND THAT IS THE ONLY MAINTENENCE, I LOVE IT BECAUSE I NEVER HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IT. IT JUST WORKS.
I had 2 shaft drive motorcycles. In both cases the shaft drive was smoother, easier to maintain and also more dependable. I put 56,000 miles on one of them.
I owned a shaft drive bike that was given to me, a Suzuki GS1100, that I never would have bought because, for the size bike it was, it just felt very slooooow. I see the versatility of a chain but I think, by far, belts are the best way to go.
My favorite drive is shaft drive. Then comes the belt and chain. The East German motorcycle brand "MZ" had a closed chain case to protect the chain from dirt and dust. These chains also had a longer service life due to the protection.
I had 2 MZ 250s, the second one was bought brand new. Thanks to the clever chain enclosure, the chains performed marvelously for more miles than I'm getting today with my Kawasakis and Hondas. The MZ ETS 250 was a slightly goofy-looking bike, (German MC magazine in the 1970s: "Yes, we have no bananas") but remarkably reliable. The second one, which wasn't abused by a previous owner like my first, took me all the way from Germany to the Cevennes Mountains of France and back. Some friendly gestures by the factory -- the bike came with a really good toolkit, including a spare set of bulbs. I wish I still had it here in the USA. But being a 2-stroker, it's not a favorite with the authorities here.
@@georgiabrigand6793 Maybe an MZ 500 R with a four-stroke Rotax engine from 1991/1992? The design was completely taken over from the MZ ETZ 251/301 and also has the closed chain case. There's even an MZ club in Miami Florida. I found youtube videos. ;-)
@@dennismundt7378 Wasn't aware of that one ! I'm putting the MZ500R on my "look out for" list, along with the latest BSA and Royal Enfield models. Thanks for the heads-up, Dennis ! Ride safe !
Lots of German bikes had this. the older Kreidler Florett's had it too. Can't remember which bike, but one old bike I saw, had an oil bath the chain runs through. At the end of the day though, nothing stops chain stretch.
@@DetroitMicroSound I don't currently know of any motorcycle manufacturers who still install a closed chain case. Starting with the "Skorpion" series, MZ no longer had a chain case installed. In the end, the star of MZ sank despite a beautiful and powerful model range (MZ 1000 S/ SF/ ST). In 2012 MZ was insolvent and a restructuring failed. The second manufacturer "Simson", who installed a closed chain box, went under in 2003.
@@stopstalkingyouspookybastard My day job is just my day job. I have no desire to live where I work. My family, friends, farm and interests are where I live. Jobs come and go. I used to chase jobs, constantly moving from one place to the next. Just isn't worth the hassle. So I chose to live where I want to live and then work where I can. Wish I had made that decision earlier, instead of wasting so much time in places I hated living.
Completely agree: 100% on shaft. I wish I could say I do less mileage than you do but sadly it is not the case. I keep promising myself it will be just for a another few months...some comments seem oblivious that we all have different circumstances and if we do it then we do it for some reason or reasons...and that nothing stays the same forever regardless how long lasting it may be!
Up until a year ago I would have agreed with chain drive being the best. Then last year I bought a 2016 Moto Guzzi. I quickly enjoyed not having to mess with lubrication and worrying about the chain wearing out. I might think differently if I was out racing or needed to quickly and easily change gearing, but for just riding on the street I really enjoy the shaft drive. But to each their own. Also I enjoyed the video.
The Moto Guzzi engine orientation dictates shaft drive, it was not adapted to shaft drive. Take it easy on the clutch, lest you learn about a major design tradeoff.
Same for me. I own a Griso and am highly amused by the absence of rattling chain noise and no more greasing/tensioning chains ever again. Funny thing is driving side by side one can hear the chain noise all too well from the "others". Best choice ever!
Personally, I had a Honda shaft drive and it was absolutely awesome (not a sport bike or off road, but a cruiser). Ran like a champ and still had good acceleration. It was super smooth for longer rides and LOW maintenance. With the Honda engine reliability and a shaft drive, it was the perfect motorcycle for someone who wants to ride and not spend a lot of time on repair and maintenance. Would highly recommend to anyone who wants a smooth ride and low maintenance.
Suggested item #4 for the "power delivery" category - only shaft drives impart a torque to the vehicle in the "roll" axis (like when you lean left and right). They all, of course, impart torque in the "pitch" axis (wheelie!). One could also argue there's a potential for an abrupt change in power delivery to result in a coupled force in the "yaw" axis (flat track/speedway cornering technique). My last shaftie had an uncomfortable amount of roll torque ... I suggest this is the #1 reason sportbikes use chains.
Not quite that simple. That torque reaction can be minimized. The late model BMWs and the Kawasaki C-14 do it by adding an articulated joint to the driveshaft. The Yamaha FJR1300 does it with steering geometry. I have never noticed any roll torque on my FJR.
Ding, ding, ding...BINGO That's exactly what I say & I can't believe Craig didn't bring it up. That's the #1 reason NOT to own a shaft drive bike! I had a Suzuki GS1100 with a shaft drive that I had gotten from my brother, & to be honest, if it wasn't given to me I never would have bought that bike. It just felt very slow for the size bike it was & as you said was very "torquey" with poor throttle response. I can't believe that anyone who is a true "rider" who wants to get the most out their bike would choose a shaft drive over chain or a belt???
I really like the idea of Craig doing motorcycle tech content. It will give the channel a whole new avenue for making videos, and I enjoy the maintenance side of motorcycling almost as much as riding. Also, whoever did the editing on this nailed it with the captions.
Yeah Craig, it's time to take the lead & stop being a Richard Karn to Sean Kerr's Time Allen 🤣Of course I'm just being facetious, remember her, 😅 but really you could do a channel of your own on motorcycle repairs, upgrades, & mods.
Excellent - If I may I would add an extra variable in addition to Weight (see Jaslath comment): Cost and how it reflects on the bikes's price both on acquisition time and then long term (where maintenance / repairs will play a significant role). BMW has used drive shafts mainly on its boxer engines and these offer an incredible benefit rarely mentioned: side impact (T shunt) protection: the very much reason why I still have two legs to stand on...
Great video. Very informative. I'm 78 yrs and hve been on two wheelers a long time. I have owned all shaft drives except for one, it was chain. As far as heavy bikes go shaft is best by far. My son has a belt dive on a Vulcan 900 Custom. It is not without problems.....adjusting among others. If you have time do a video on tires and applications. Always...ride safe.
You just reminded me why I love shaft drives & will stick with them as long as I can...zero maintenance except an occasional fluid change, zero mess or adjustment, and they last forever.
Great video! Good explanations. My bike is a shaft driven bike, which was a huge selling point for me. I was in the market for a new bike last year and had my eye on three bikes. What ultimately sealed the deal for my current bike was the low maintenance with the drive shaft. Thanks for the video!
The best type of drive is... the one that you own. They all have pros and cons, but if you understand the maintenance required they all get the job done. I think I need more bikes so I can have an example of each in the garage.
The key: “it’s about the application.” I’ve raced and can’t imagine anything but a chain. I’ve toured extensively and used each of these at different times… shaft, hands down. If the belt was encased for protection, it would be perfect for the smaller to mid-sized road bikes. And a good enclosure might even make the belt a good choice for adventure bikes. And the older I get, the more I like the shaft drive. Imagine that.
One thing he forgot to mention that I think is worth : shaft drive is by far the heaviest system, adding quite a bit of weight to the machine (which doesn't really matter on big cruisers hence why they're used there. So more weight, power loss and cost for the shaft drive but super reliable and maintenance-free in most case. Whereas chains are light, strong (under varying environment), tunable and put the power down nicely but require frequent cleaning, lubing and the occasional adjustment. Can't have your bike cake and eat it too :P
This channel is the reason why I even got a bike. I took the advice and got a low maintenance Honda Fury as my first bike. I hope these helpful videos help someone else also.
Perfectly explained and 100% chain all day. That power to the ground is just right right there everytime! But anyway, we all love riding our bikes so let's just enjoy it.
What are the odds?! I’ve been researching the differences of these over the last couple of days, and have recently gotten into this channel over the last month! I’m going to look at some HD’s later, and am super excited to get into the motorcycle community! Thanks for the video Craig!!
one thing I'd like to say is that while they may not last as long, chains are extremely common and cheap compared to shaft and belts, which means while you're more likely to go through wear and tear with a chain, it's much easier to repair and recuperate from than the other options(while very unlikely, you're pretty much boned if you damage your shaft or belt)
Shaft is great. My 1979 XS1100 had a shaft drive with 66,000 miles and its was 100% on point. The entire bike for that matter. Reverse rotation motor limited the rear end lift under its brutal 11 second 1/4 miles.
Having had several bikes I’ve found the Virago shaft drive and even the Honda Sabre V45 shaft to be extremely smooth and reliable. I’m very surprised that Craig failed to address the rotation differences between chain & belt (forward) versus shaft (lateral). Shaft drive bikes behave slightly different under heavy power. It comes down to personal preference. For those who don’t care to mess with sprocket changes and tuning the drivetrain you’ll find chain to be the last of the three options and shaft the first choice.
The way I used to ride (I no longer ride motorcycles) the chain was best. Two reasons. Number one being I never happened to want any bike that had a shaft. Not because of the shaft itself but none of the bikes happened to be my style. Second reason is I didn't really ride all that many miles per year due to long winters and other reasons. So if you don't ride all that much a chain will virtually never wear out. I never, ever changed a chain or sprocket. I sold my bike with the factory chain and if the buyer ran the bike a lot, then the chain was then their problem. And back in the seventies and eighties when I used to ride as a young pup, no bike I knew of had a belt drive. Maybe the first belt drives came out about the time I quit riding in the middle eighties or so. Bet you can't name a belt drive bike of the seventies!! Good luck. I think Harleys had chains only in those days. But I'm no expert on Harleys.
great video. ive always prefered a chain because they r so much easzier to fix on the road. plus its a bike not a lounge chair its supposed to make noise. i like hearing the chain sounds cuz it helps diagnose some problems.
I switched to chain drive on my street glide and i really believe it's the best thing I've done so far. 24 tooth up front 58 on the rear. Makes my bike take off like a rocket. Top end sucks but how often and how long do you really stay above 100mph on public crap roads? So much cheaper than big bore kits. No more down shifting 2 gears to pass cars just twist the wick and gone....
Crazy to hear the sprocket difference compared to a sportbike, really goes to show the difference in the tranny's finals drive. My cbr1000rr comes with a 16/42 from factory
I had the KZ1300 AND loved almost everything about shaftdrive. Less cleaning, no adjustments but hated the pogo sticking. Didn't inspire confidence cornering. Chaindrive with the A track chain managing on a CalFab swing arm. Put that on my H2 and loved it.
Recently I bought my first motorcycle with a shaft drive (BMW K1300S) and it's awesome. But I wanna say to those who don't like chains at all because of the maintenance issues - you should try scottoiler system! I have one at my KLR 650 and it's pretty good at keeping my chain always lubricated.
Great job Craig! Far more knowledge and information than Sean could ever deliver. When Sean talks it sounds like a snake-oil salesman pitching to a carnival crowd.
The one mod I've seen for a shaft drive bike to change the gearing was for the Yamaha XS 1100. People would swap out the rear pumpkin from an XS650 to get taller gearing. There's a whole user forum dedicated to the bike with a section on how to do the mod. It takes some wrenching and a little bit of light fabrication to make it work, but if you can find an XS650 to cannibalize it's not a very expensive mod.
These videos are awesome please keep doing them not only am I being educated but I am being entertained. This channel only puts out videos of high quality it doesn't miss.
I put a Scottoiler X system on my VStrom back in December. It throws a drop of oil on the rear sprocket every 50 seconds or so while moving. Since then my chain is always very evenly and smoothly lubricated and both the chain and the sprocket are much cleaner than when I was manually cleaning and lubing every 500 miles or so. It basically turns chains into no maintenance other than checking the slop along with the normal walkaround once a week or so.
Great video! However.... I think you are selling the belt drive short. It's quiet, clean, smooth while responsive, low power loss, almost maintenance-free and you can change the front pulley for city/highway if you wish. For every single used bike I have had, I had to replace chain and sprockets, it's a system that just doesn't age well and people can't be bothered to service them often enough. It's expensive and annoying that you have to get dirty after almost every ride and it's a constant worry to keep track of mileage and weather since last chain service. The bike is always messy and the garage floor too. Belt drive is like a gift from God for all bikes except dirt bikes.
I've been riding the same bike with a chain for 39 years. Sure, it takes some maintenance. I recently got a belt drive and really don't notice much difference - just less maintenance. However, though I've never owned or even ridden a shaft drive, I think it makes the most sense and wish H-D would have used a shaft all along.
My first bike was a 2004 V-star 1100 (shaft drive) and I loved the ease of maintenance. 👍 Second was a 2013 street glide (belt drive), which was a rolling couch basically, but also pretty easy to wrench on. Third bike I got squirrelly and bought a 2003 Big Dog pitbull which was meticulously maintained, and also a belt drive. I never got into swapping sprockets or anything, but I agree with Craig, shaft drive was the lowest maintenance and most fun to ride. Blessings to you all @SRKCycles. 😇
I've had one belt drive, two shaft drives, and one chain drive. SCREW CHAIN DRIVE! I rode my bike for transportation, and it was a PAIN IN THE BUTT! The maintenance on the shaft drives? LOVED IT!
Craig's insite is on the next level of common man and the average rider can understand. I truly enjoy the growth of the Chanel and the way its been growing. I think more people relate to Craig. I truly appreciate the time and effort thats put into the content i would hope you guys go on the road. Maybe do a meet up and ride. Dragons tail would be a great place.. Keep up the great work.
Chain oilers and cases In the last 54 years, the improvements to lubing and power capacity of chains has been immense, but 2 devices, formerly used by some have been overlooked. 1. A chain oiler. Specifically an English Scott Oiler. It works. It improves power transmission and uses a light oil that does not attract crud. 2. A final drive enclosure. Think Bultaco Metrella, Yamaha XV 1000 RH or even the Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha step throughs. Chain drive is more efficient and gives "some" chance for altering gearing. Overall shaft drive has won me over, especially the BMW systems which don't cause the rear end to rise under power. The telelever / paralever BMWs are very stable. My 1250 RS has teles up front, and are electronically managed, so it has not proven inferior to the telelever. Great vid!!!
Craig is a natural on camera and this video was great. SRK cycles needs to make this type of content a weekly feature. I’m sure Craig can think of plenty of topics to discuss.
I used to have a '84 700cc yamaha virago with a shaft drive, I loved it. It was my daily driver when I used to drive 70 miles each way to work, drove it cross country while pulling a trailer. had put over 140,000 miles when I got transferred out of the country and had to leave it behind.
I had a Honda v 65 1100 shaft drive. I loved it.when I'd take off hard it leave same every time or a burn out cpl gears it leaves a mark the same every time
Thank you! I started on a 70 Tiger 650 twin. The chain was shot. I went looking for a replacement. The only thing I found was machine chain of the correct pitch. And I had 4 links and a breaker in my jacket. Along with a flat screw driver - and a 12 point 9/16th. I had the chain lay out on the ground once. The old link split. Took me a week to find an old machine shop - with an old guy who had been there 60 yrs. As you might guess - I like chain drive.
Phew am in shock no super load rock music to drown out the commentary, no insane immature hand arm waving, someone who doesn't look like a Woolly mammoth. A mature and knowledgeable guy great I hope it catches on 👍
I've ridden from Tassie to Queensland, over to Adelaide then back to Tassie, i think at least 11000 kilometres or more with a belt drive cut half way through and it never broke. I took a spare belt and a clutch puller with me in case it let go, but it didn't. I even forgot about the belt being cut and did some aggressive acceleration at the lights in Queensland and it never broke. This was on a FXRSSP back in the early 90s. I met a fella touring around Australia with holes punched clean through his belt, no problems . Having said that, the days I'm on an old Triumph Rocket 3 and the drive shaft is great 🇦🇺
My first bike was a chain drive... Oh the maintenance... So fun! Good thing it had a single sided swingarm! Then the next bike was a shaft drive. Now my third bike is also a shaft drive. I just love it! No more of that swinging dirt under your tail fairing of your clean bike and no maintenance, except for changing the oil in once in forever. I don't care for the power loss, I don't do record lap times on the track, I just enjoy the ride and ownership of the bike. Also it's a Yamaha Vmax 1200, love it so much! :)
I'm not talking from a motorcyclist perspective, rather a bicycling perspective, but if I got myself a motorcycle, I would like to fab or find a sealed self-lubricating chain setup. Motorcycles are on single speed chain drives, so the enclosure could be made fairly compact, the output side could be sealed similarly to an engine's crankcase, and the whole setup could be drained and cracked open within a few minutes, and would take away very little of the tunability aspect that chain drives have. By being sealed off and constantly lubricated, it would decrease wear, almost negate maintanence beyond changing the chain and changing the oil, it would function more consistently in offroad environments since the actual drivetrain within can't get dirty, be it dirt, mud, clay, or bits of plantlife, and it would suppress the chain noise. It wouldn't have to be filled to the brim with oil and completely sealed off either it could be done with a resorvoir and small pump, also not unlike what's in most engines on the roads today. I suppose that's all I got for my brain dump, maybe one day it'll become a real thing.
You are very good, Craig, and I love the continuity Srkcycles has :) I miss Sean, and the words of wisdom, but I will not miss Srkcycles, thanks to you. Keep up the good work, and God bless you all.
Seeing more of this type of video would be a lot of fun. I really like all the content you guys put out but diving a little deeper into the mechanical side of things is interesting and fun.
The best system is fully enclosed chain drive. Used to be a popular feature on commuter and utility motorcycles (and Yamaha TR1). Lighter than shaft drive so lower unsprung mass. Low maintenance - like belt drive but not as expensive. No dirt gets on the chain and sprockets so they last waaay longer. You can still change the gearing ratio if you want to. Over the years I've owned several motorcycles with fully enclosed chain drive and it's a system I wish was still in use today.
Great video! I have had all three and for the intended use of the bike they were all best. My last bike was a F800GS that I rode daily. Every weekend I had to clean the chain, every other day I had to oil the chain, every 40k miles (12 to 15 months) I had to shell out $250 for a new sprocket and chain set. That got old fast...but...it took me everywhere I wanted to go, and comfortably I might add. Highway, gravel road, dirt road, single track...it did it all. The Harley I had...only had to adjust the belt when I changed tires. I never had any issues with them. I had to check it periodically but it was always fine. I'm now on my second drive shaft bike and I love that I don't worry about it. I like working on my bikes but the chain drive was too much for me. On the dirt bikes it's just as you said, chains are lighter and easier to change the gearing to whatever I wanted. I didn't have to worry about maintenance much because it got cleaned after every ride just about because I always ended up in some mud somewhere and had to clean the bike. I didn't put thousands of miles on them so I didn't have to change them often...if ever. Having anything else on a dirt bike would be nonsense!
I've owned all 3 types and each has their distinctive pros and cons. If I had to choose it for the type of riding I mostly do now, I would choose belt even though both bikes I currently own are running on shafts.
It is possible to change the final gearing on a shaft drive system without having a new set of gears made. Just change the tire size but since there is not a lot of excess space around the tire the amount of change is small unless you are going to a smaller tire. I did this on my bike because I wanted less RPM's at highway speeds. I was only able to increase it by one size and got results that I was not expecting. The RPM's did drop at highway speeds but a miniscule amount, and my fuel mileage went down about 2MPG and shift points also changed. I agree with your assessment of the systems, well done video.
It’s about time Craig has some camera time. What a great Wealth of knowledge he has. I couldn’t agree more about chain drives. They may require more work but what a great system for efficiency and tunability. Not sure that’s a word, but I’m gonna pretend it is.
Touring from Ontario to California & back, I left having a new chain installed. Chain adjustments and lube all the way to Cali, had to replace the chain when I got there. Same on the way back, plus another chain and also sprockets on returning. The uneven chain wear caused an engine surging when holding the bike at highway speeds, apparently the engine cam timing chain had been unevenly stretched as a result. 1983 Suzuki GS550L.
