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Thor: Ragnarok and Thor: Love & Thunder were the weakest sequels of the Thor story arc. The former merely repeated Thor being taught humility and humbleness in power and godhood from the *FAR* superior Sir Kenneth Branagh's first film in such a wacky, comedically immature way while scr%wing up one of the most epic story arcs in Marvel Comics, while the other was simply... insipid, campy and pander-stricken in so many ways to appeal to crowds who don't even care if Thor is been degraded into another bumbling id%ot of All-American coming-to-age action popcorn flickr hero from the 1980s.
Hey, beautiful vid as always! But isn't BetterHelp famously harmful? Some other youtubers lately got sponsored by them and got completely bashed, and almost every vid that shows up by just googling "better help" is a bad review filled with horror stories.
Alan: "Joss Whedon, get help man. Your writing's too good." Depending of his mood. I have read some of his film scripts. Ew. Whom to his human skills... 😬
Frigga was a saint! How she kept all 3 knuckleheads in line, I'll never know. What's the Asgardian version of twisting someone's ear or hitting them with your sandal??
@@wolfe6220 and now I’m imagining Frigga just swiftly and cleanly removing her sandal and smacking thor with it from across Asgard, and it returns to her hand like the hammer (I can’t spell the name)
I think MCU and cinema therapy missed an opportunity to discuss the burden of being a family’s “rock” - caregiver burnout and the depression that can be caused because these women have to be perfect saints all of the time.
The funny part of when Odin kind of snarls at Loki, is that wasn't even actually in the script. The brilliant actor that is Sir Anthony Hopkins was so into character that when Hiddleston spoke he was so taken aback by the sudden noise that his look of being taken aback was completely genuine
I was so glad that they let him do more acting in Thor 3 because aside from his occasional great Welsh-yelling, I feel like he didn't get to do much. Seeing Anthony Hopkins play Loki was amazing.
@@dancechica That man has some SERIOUS acting chops, to be able to go from the All-Father with his great, grandiose, Shakespearean speeches, to the playful god of mischief in disguise, and make you 100% believe he is both!
The thing with MCU Hela is that, she was literally raised as a weapon. So all she knows is to conquer and kill because that's what she was raised for. She calls herself Odin's weapon that helped build Asgard. I'm sure she felt betrayed when Odin suddenly had a changed of heart because what other purpose can someone like "Goddess of Death" be. Plus Hela's line to the Asgardians, "I thought you'd be happy to see me..." Was the only time we saw a hint of sadness in her voice. I think she genuinely loves Asgard and thinks that conquering other realms is simply just fulfilling her purpose to them. In her own sick way, Hela helped build Asgard and to see everyone not welcome her for all her achievements for their realm was heartbreaking for her. Hela also cares about her soldiers too. Like how she threated Skurge at first, giving him the opportunity to serve her without prejudice and how she loves Fenrir. Hela, Loki and Thor would have been the most powerful trio in the MCU if Odin was a good dad since the beginning.
Which I think is one of the reasons Hela is arguably one of the better MCU villains. Because if there's anything this particular vid has taught us, it's that Thor, Loki, and Hela were all products of Odin's mistakes. Thor became greedy and vain due to Odin having so much pride in him, Loki became fucked up due to Odin leading him on for a purpose that was never really meant to be his, and Hela became a killing machine due to Odin's desire to build what he has now. And for Hela to be banished into Hell (or I think there's only one "l" in the Norse Mythology) for most likely 2,000 years (seeing as Thor states he is 1,500 years old in _Infinity War)_ and after being set free only to find no one in Asgard knows who she is or even what she's accomplished, I can understand feeling a little upset. Because I think just about anyone can understand wanting recognition for their accomplishments in one way or another; it all depends on their motivation for recognition.
On top of that, Loki and Odin both took 3 movies to grow, so who's to say Hela would not have come round given time. As far as we know she was left alone to stew for centuries if not millenia, in most probably a really unpleasant place. Of course she is angry and bitter, she has done exactly what was asked of her and was then condemned for that. Taking the fall for Odins actions Edit: as I reread this I would like to say that Odin barely grew actually, he was about to die so all he did was say he loved both his sons, and because he died we don't get to see him actually change and put in the work. So for all we know it was essentially an empty promise, or he meant it but would have relapsed as soon as it got difficult
Honestly, one of the biggest missed opportunities in _Thor: Ragnarok_ when it comes to MCU Hela is that they never really tried to set up or elaborate at all what her relationship with the deceased Frigga was. Like, was Frigga her mother or was Hela born out of wedlock by another woman, which was why Hela tried so hard to be the weapon that Odin wanted when Asgard was in it's imperial era and why Odin wanted to erase all records of Hela after she was sealed away, out of shame for multiple different reasons? If Hela was actually the daughter and firstborn child of Odin and Frigga, then _Thor: Ragnarok_ 's biggest crime is never exploring how Hela's relationship with Frigga. How would Hela react to finding out that her mother Frigga has died a few years before she was released from her prison? Would that influence her mad ascendancy and conquest of Asgard? We'll never know because the film was so ambiguous on that front that we're not even sure if Frigga was Hela's mother or not. All we know is that Hela is Odin's daughter. It's a major missed opportunity to be honest.
I love her line in Infinity War when Thor sees her and he is emotionally just a wreck. She sees him, knows he is from another time & still reassures him he is worthy
Thor and Loki's story is an amazing and tragic story. Just when they've set it all aside, made amends and are looking towards the future together, it's all ripped away.
And then we got a show staring our empathetic trickster and got a good, albeit rushed redemption arc. Not to mention the fact that version of Loki is not the one with all that progression, but a different version who gets into the Time Space Loop Police on accident. AND the TSLP (or whatever their name was) already had the memories of the Loki we got to know through all the movies, play the whole thing for version 1 Loki and that's how the redemption arc starts. The show is great, and I love the interactions between Loki and the rest of the TSLP, I love the growth and change he goes through to become a better person while acknowledging his flaws. The romance with him is a bit strange though and just a "Wait how can this work?" thing. (Look it up, you will cringe)
@@colt1903 Understandable. I just thought the whole redemption arc (At least he recognizes his faults and actively tries to become better) would mean he could take those lessons he learned during his time at the Time Organization and within, to meet someone else outside of the gender bent version of him to develop a relationship with.
Odin's growling roar at Loki was an instinct by Anthony Hopkins, and Tom Hiddlestone recoiling in shock was his real reaction. It's a perfect moment, Loki himself wasn't in trouble but he was very unwelcome in that discussion.
@@Confuzzled-Crow77During Thor, Anthony Hopkins’ Odin expresses his disappointment with his eldest son’s actions. Thor is disrespectful, but Loki attempts to calm his father down. Odin lets out a growl that makes Loki back off. The moment is totally improvised, and Hiddleston was genuinely taken aback by Hopkins’ unscripted reaction.
@@Confuzzled-Crow77just how Alan and jono said they’d done that as dads, he was so in character as a disappointed dad that was his genuine reaction to Loki trying to interject, just how a real dad would act.
While I understand why so many of Loki's scenes were cut from the first Thor film (they made him far too sympathetic to be a villain you actually rooted against), I'm sad that they got cut anyway. You get to see him bantering with Thor before the coronation and the two of them teasing each other like siblings do. You also see that he wasn't lying when he says at the end that he wasn't after the throne; during the deleted scene where he's officially made king, he's sincerely confused by what's going on. I think those two scenes go a long way toward helping explain his character too.
_"You also see that he wasn't lying when he says at the end that he wasn't after the throne; during the deleted scene where he's officially made king, he's sincerely confused by what's going on"_ Yes. This!! An entirely idiotic decision from the directors, they cut the MOST IMPORTANT LOKI SCENE from the movie just so they could have a cheap reveal scene of Loki on the throne (gasp! what a surprise! *eyeroll*) later. They also change the sequence of certain other scenes with Thor's friends and Loki.
Yeah you also see Thor go too far with his teasing by making fun of Loki’s preference of magic over physical fighting like Thor, and the servant laughs as well and Thor doesn’t correct this at all-Loki stops laughing he doesn’t find this funny and turns the wine into snakes, he’s clearly used to this, on top of the lies he’s been told a majority of his life being made fun of for using magic instead of fighting is definitely another reason why he did what he did
Yes yes yes. And that decision was in the end a mistake, given that loki is so widely loved that now he is in his redemption arc. Shit could've been so rich if they just let people care and understand Loki
Watching the deleted scenes was eye opening for me. I think Loki saw Thor as the golden child and never thought he would get more than a slap on the hand. After watching those scenes it really changes how you see them. The real villain in Thor for me is Odin.
The fun part here is that they're Asgardians, so the whole "Loki stabbed me" thing is... not a painful memory for Thor, it's just "Yeah, we were brothers, that's what brothers do", and when we look back at Loki, the look on his face, for me anyway, all I see in his face is "Hehehe ahhh yeah, the good old days". It's... Horrible, for everyone else there, but for Thor and Loki, it's a weird way they interact with one another. Is it Healthy? Ehhhhh, jury's out, they're space-gods, but honestly, that's just how they had fun together.
@@TacComControl We've seen Thor withstand the power of a dwarf star in the Cosmic Forge as he held the damn forge together with his bare hands, so what is a dagger going to do. We've seen the Hulk smash both Loki and Thor, and while it was clearly excruciatingly painful for them, they were up and walking it off again shortly afterwards.
Frigga and Loki's relationship is one of my favorite dynamics in this family. Their conversation in Dark World says so much in such a short period of time. The way Loki actually turns and listens when Odin asks if he can hear her calling to him and the look on Loki's face when Odin says Frigga would be proud of him are such subtle things and yet tell us everything about his love for his mom.
What's even funnier is that whole snake story Thor tells them is completely ad libbed by Chris Hemsworth and so Tom Hiddleston is actually trying not to laugh but his big grin works as "Ah, good times", which is awesome.
I never really understood why people liked Loki so much until I binged the MCU last year, shortly after my mother died and I received multiple life changing mental health diagnoses, and now I love him so much. He was a deeply insecure boy who feared all his life that he didn't belong and that there was something wrong with him, and he was proven right and worse in a devastating way. He was already desperate for the validation he was able to get for being an asgardian, being a prince and being destined to rule, and then the first two were ripped away from him and the last heavily threatened. I don't condone warcrimes obviously but I can certainly emphasize with him for clinging to the last thing he thinks gives him worth as a person which is being a ruler. It kinda reads like someone throwing themselves in their job to an unhealthy extent after a personal tragedy. His reaction to his mother's death is also still the one I've seen since my own mother passed that rings the most true to me with quite some distance. I remember seeing him on the floor in that cell and thinking "THAT's it".
That's why I like Loki so much. He has a relatability to him, we have all felt like we didn't belong and felt like an outcast, like there's something wrong and have been told that by a lot of people (or shown through their actions). We all know what it's like being lied to and how much it hurts from someone we have known our whole lives. I could go on, but I think you get the picture. I don't agree with how he resorted to killing and all that, but at the bottom line, he's trying to do what he thinks is right. I like villains who are empathetic in some way, just not the whole killing and murder spree.
Honestly, it's for a lot of similar reasons like these that I also really like the character Severus Snape from the _Harry Potter_ books. He's not nice but being good is not the same as being nice. Snape is like Loki but with none of the privileges. As insecure as Loki grew up to be, he still grew up as Asgardian royalty, with a family that while may have its issues, still strongly cared for and loved Loki throughout his life. Loki had one of the best safety nets and support networks that a person could ever have as an Asgardian Prince. Snape meanwhile grew up dirt-poor in an industrial town in the northern Midlands of England in the 1960s with an abusive Muggle father and a neglectful witch mother, who wasn't so much loving as less abusive by comparison. He was so poor that 9 year old Snape would've thought that the Weasleys were wealthy. And child Snape would've switched places with Harry in a heartbeat because even the Dursleys' mistreatment was still better than how Snape's abuse by his parents and teachers were, by pretty much every single metric. Snape is an example of what happens when abuse, neglect, child poverty, disenfranchisement, bullying, and trauma go untreated for decades can result in. Even then, Snape was characterized as heroic for always doing what was right over what was easy. Plus, it's not hard to feel bad for a canonical male sexual assault survivor like Snape.
@@ajiththomas2465 Exactly, you read my mind. I too like Snape as a character...I find him interesting because of his past and how it could have been changed, though it depends on the version. (This is part of the reason I dislike James, he just came off as an arrogant, pick fights for no reason, stalker for 6 books! You expect me to believe he changed and grew to deserve Lilly? I'm sorry, but no. He still picks fights, just behind her back!)
Are we not gonna talk about how Loki basically nearly destroyed himself inside that cell when Frigga died and put up an illusion to make it seem like he was okay when in reality he fell apart when the only parent he felt loved him unconditionally died? Immediately after he told her she wasn’t his mother? How he blamed himself because he told the monster where to find Jane not knowing his mother was there? 😭😭😭
“You’re late.” “You’re missing an eye.” “This isn’t over” -these lines among many others show how amazing their relationship is on the battlefield on top of all their physical banter against each other and alongside each other too.
For me the lines that best sell the brotherly banter between them is when they come to earth looking for Odin and Loki says “I can’t see into the future, I’m not a witch” and Thor replies “really? Well why do you dress like one?!” 😂😂😂 this is such a classic example of completely childish banter between adult siblings that I 100% have with my own brothers and I wouldn’t have it any other way 😂❤
@@danielguinea2971 In an early draft of the characters, she was going to be his mother, to explain her exile (treason via frost giant affair) and Odin saving Loki (his grandson).
@@thestoryfactory8429 perhaps instead of Hela being Loki's mother by way of a dalliance with Laufey... Loki could be the bastard result of Odin's dalliance with Laufey's Queen... which brings the genetics full circle - they would thus both have the same father... and it would turn out that Loki really was Odin's son, all along... It would also explain why Odin chose to keep the child he "found"...
4:43 I love how Loki is in the background the whole time like "Oh shit! I just pulled a prank because I was mad and a little jealous. I didn't see all this coming!"
@@oceanmythjormundgandr3891 yep. Apparently Hemsworth had a few stories like that that he made up and cycled through them on different takes. Obviously when they edited the film, the snake story is the one they liked best.
One of the things I find interesting is that Thor is absolutely Odin's son. He's masculine and a fighter, you can see Thor hanging on to Odin's talecoat and the 2 of them unknowingly excluding Loki. So who does Loki turn to? His mother Freda. He learns magic, not martial arts, although he does that but his main go to is magic, just like his mother.
Good point about Odin being the Father with gravitas and a throne to maintain and Thor following. I am sure Odin did similar rash things in his past. Marvel should have done an Odin prequel to reveal some of his past action and difficult upbringing, the origins of some higher-level future villains, and just tie up a lot of the fabric of the overall lore.
But Loki is also like Odin because they are both tricksters figures, shapeshifters, and practice magic. Which was transgressive and weird in Norse culture -- magic was definitely women's business, and both of them "lowered" themselves to study it from women.
@@kirstencorby8465 Except the MCU version of Odin, Thor, Loki, Hela etc, who in turn are based on the old Marvel comics, have very little or nothing whatsoever in common with their namesakes from the Norse Prose Edda and Poetry Edda. In the Edda, Loki is the god of the hearthfire, who was called Loki Gift-Giver, Loki Scar-Lips, Loki Horse-Mother (as he gave birth to Sleipnir, Odin's eight-legged horse), a trickster who slept with other gods' wives, who invented and gave humans the hearthfire and the fishing net, definitely not evil prior to the Aesir slaughtered his two sons he had with a wife from Asgard to tie him to a boulder with their entrails and torture him... for crashing Heimdall's party (after he had been the only one not invited) and bragging about sleeping with their wives and insulting and trashtalking all of them [see: the poem known as the _Lokasenna]_ by revealing uncomfortable _truths_ about the other gods to their faces. The later Christian monks who first wrote the mythological folktales down twisted him into that good-vs-evil narrative, made him a Lucifer character instead of Prometheus, and turned Loki's daughter Hela from a Hades-like figure into the Devil. And I'm 100% sure Christian monks invented the character of Baldur the God of Light wholesale, to kill him off as an explanation for Ragnarök, the mythologized event of Christianity arriving in Scandinavia and Daneland and destroying the Old Faith. Baldur had never been mentioned prior to that story; a god of light and the sun feels highly out of place in a culture that didnt revere the sun because the sun was weak for most of the year. Not to mention a story about a mother who tried to make her sun unkillable by any weapon... in a culture that revered bravery and where men wanted to die gloriously in battle so they'd go to Valhalla instead of to the Realm of Hel (a cold drab boring Underworld) where women, children and cowards ended up. And last but not least, if the story of Loki's binding followed Baldur's death instead of following the _Lokasenna,_ it's illogical: Baldur's death started Ragnarök. But Loki's chains were ensorceled so they'd be unbreakable and would only break once Ragnarök started... so in effect in that version Loki would never be chained because Ragnarök had already started and Loki was prophetized to play a role in it.
Yeah and Loki was def made fun of for choosing magic over fighting, cause in a deleted scene Thor makes fun of Loki for using magic and the servant with them laughs as well
23:22 What I love about this scene is the writing behind those small couple phrases he says in the beginning: "Hurts, doesn't it? Being lied to... Being told you're one thing and... then learning it's all a fiction", because at a first glance, and in any other context, you'd think that's just Loki rubbing how betrayed he felt in Thor's face like "That's how I felt, how ya like it?!". Instead, because he's having a change of heart, he's honestly (and awkwardly) trying to connect with Thor right there.
One of the things it took me a while to realize is that both Thor and Loki are basically teenagers in their timeframe in the first movie. So their rebellion makes sense in that way.
I've always said to my sister that our family was just like the Odinson's and that's why ever since the first movie of the Thor franchise came out, I was a huge fan. What is interesting is that for the longest I felt like Loki, being the younger of the two of us, in the sense that I felt I was always trying to be her equal, but then as an adult, I made a decision that went against my father's wishes, and the scene of Thor being cast out hits differently now. We joke that somehow in all the confusion of adolescence, my older sister became Loki and I became Thor, but watching this video, it's almost painful how much truth and unresolved pain is hidden behind our jokes. Thank you. Johnathan and Alan, for showing me this; it has made me realize how fragile the balance is in my own Asgard, and that my family's work together to needs to begin.
Honestly, one of the biggest missed opportunities in _Thor: Ragnarok_ when it comes to MCU Hela is that they never really tried to set up or elaborate at all what her relationship with the deceased Frigga was. Like, was Frigga her mother or was Hela born out of wedlock by another woman, which was why Hela tried so hard to be the weapon that Odin wanted when Asgard was in it's imperial era and why Odin wanted to erase all records of Hela after she was sealed away, out of shame for multiple different reasons? If Hela was actually the daughter and firstborn child of Odin and Frigga, then _Thor: Ragnarok_ 's biggest crime is never exploring how Hela's relationship with Frigga. How would Hela react to finding out that her mother Frigga has died a few years before she was released from her prison? Would that influence her mad ascendancy and conquest of Asgard? We'll never know because the film was so ambiguous on that front that we're not even sure if Frigga was Hela's mother or not. All we know is that Hela is Odin's daughter. It's a major missed opportunity to be honest.
I’m guessing it’s another choice made simply because in society and in the movies, women are defined by the men in their lives. The female relationships are not considered important plot points. And even if it was considered, it would be the first thing to be axes for length etc. because female relationships are considered less important than male ones.
I think she was born before Odin was married to Frigga, she's not Frigga's daughter. I know in Norse Mythology Loki is Hela's (Hel's) father and instead of Loki and Thor being brothers, Odin and Loki are blood brothers. But Loki was still Thor's main adversary.
Thank you for picking up on the Shakespearean notes of Thor! I always related to Loki. I'm a mixed race person, who was raised by my white family and the other race I am, and look like, is often demonized in the media. I was raised culturally white but often feel like the "monster parents tell their children about at night" when I'm out in the world. So when he invited his biological father to Asgard to kill him, and then tried to destroy his true home planet, I saw it as Loki trying to be the most Asgardian Asgardian in Asgard. It was a literal expression of his self-hatred and an attempt to be seen as "worthy".
Yes, the most Asgardian Asgardian in Asgard...exactly! And, the self hatred Loki has....just breaks my heart. I'm so sorry you have felt like the "monster parents tell their children about at night". I wrote about that in my comment above about Loki. What a horrible emotion to feel. I'm sure you must know that you aren't the monster though. People who make you feel that way and the media are the monsters. It's disgusting how things are twisted due to prejudice, hate and fear.
@@kimberlybone1 Thank you so much! I agree, racism makes people behave monstrously. I just try my best to live with integrity and prove with goodness that I am not a monster. I wish Loki would have felt supported by his family enough to have chosen the high road.
@@wijcik That's all we can do isn't it? Live with integrity and try to be our best selves. The haters can get over themselves. Awww, yeah I also wish that for Loki!
I’m surprised they didn’t talk about how Odin didn’t let Loki go to Frigga’s funeral which is heartbreaking, he didn’t even tell him himself that Frigga died he made a servant tell him
I accidentally paralyzed my Mum and she spent 8 months relearning to walk and has alot of problems/pain because of me. I did it when I was 6, for a long time I felt extremely guilty about it so I relate to loki about accidentally hurting his Mum. Though my Mum is quite abusive and me doing that stopped her physical abuse so I consider it self defense or karma now
The way Thor says "Loki I thought the world of you" always breaks me a little. It's so raw and honest and, meanwhile he is expressing more of a disappointment here, it's only because of the fact that Loki's 'lifestyle' AND his own were drifferent and it made them drift apart, not because he disapproves of Loki's lifestyle itself. Hell, he learns from him too. That's why Ragnarök is so special to my heart
I love this line especially because I have a bit of the same mindset you just explained with one of my siblings. We haven’t always gotten along but I deeply unconditionally love him, I’ve done my best to express that and it’s been times where it feels like it falls on deaf ears but I’ve never not express to him that no matter what I love him, we are family and though I’m not keen to all the choices he’s made I still love him and want the best for him.
"When people think your love is conditional, people are less likely to change." That may explain why my parents think I haven't gotten any better than their expectations.
I was expecting a Psychology of a Hero: Thor & Depresison, but this one was pretty good too. Also willing for a video analysing how the original Avengers dealt with the grief of the consequences of the Infinity War in Endgame.
you are right, it would be good to see a whole video just about him. but to fully understand Thor you need the see the 4th movie too. maybe after a Disney+ release...
That last video sounds so interesting to me. But then include the entire Phase 3 wrap-up. Endgame: Thor grieving his entire country, Peter grieving Gamora. Phase 4: Peter and Happy grieving Tony, Hawkeye grieving Natasha. Somehow seeing these characters all deal with it differently has taught me much more than I'd ever expected. We can skip Black Widow though lmao, we've discussed vision and her kids enough. 😅
Story-wise, it is an essential movie. I know everyone and their dog rags on that movie, but I loved it when it came out and still enjoy it. There are so many great character moments in that film, admittedly most of them involving Loki. The scene between him and Frigga in the prison (heartbreaking), him being indirectly responsible for her death, him being consumed by grief and rage over it (revealing his true self in the prison and then his line "trust my rage." Oof.) Edit: oh and her funeral! Still one of the most visually stunning scenes in the mcu imo.
I always read into the Frigga/Loki scene as Loki creating the image of Frigga himself as an illusion and talking with it like having an argument inside your head. This realization is based on the way she disappears at the end of their conversation being similar to how his illusions are normally dispelled in a shimmering green light. I think its even more powerful this way because both sides of the argument would be coming from Loki himself, but he still can't get away from his main mindset, even through conjuring up the image of his own mother to try and reason with him.
Same as maladaptive daydreaming. I do that alot. I always imagine scenario where in telling my parents or family again what is wrong with and how they major reason. But I know in real life they'll just never understand so I don't tell them in real life. Only in my head again & again.
My dad was a Methodist pastor and a pastoral psychotherapist. His therapy work started out providing help to his fellow pastors (because they needed help, too), and at the end of his career he'd developed a therapeutic approach (based on family counseling) for church congregations and clergy. It is indeed all about the system.
As a Scandinavian who grew up with these stories it's easy to think of the first movie as silly, but this tale is essentially about how Tor (Thor) had to prove himself.
Chris Hemsworth might just be the best actor in the MCU, and that is really saying something considering the breadth of talent the MCU has come to encompass. Not even counting the ones Jon and Alan mentioned, you have such acting royalty as Sir Anthony Hopkins, you have Michael Douglas, Sam Jackson, Scarlett Johansson, Brie Larson; the late Chadwick Boseman, who brought T’challa to a new level of fame while fighting cancer. Chris is among the few I’ve seen who can go from buffoonish comedy to “rip your heart out” pathos in just a few scenes and make it absolutely believable.
I wouldn't really count Larson in acting royalty. She has some work forward, and need to deflate her ego a little. It's already one thing to be confidently arrogant and still manage to have human skills, but another to be arrogant in overconfidence and little to no human skills left.
I think he got overlooked because he doesn't steal the scenes from those great actors, but he never ruins those scenes either. He's never a weak link, and when up against the talent there that says a lot in itself! Then when you actually really look at his performances, there's naunce and more subtlety than you might expect. He really impressed me as Kirk's dad in the JJ Abrahams Star Trek, only on scene for a few minutes but really delivers a great character that sells the idea of who Kirk has (/is initially deliberately failing) to live up to. I think it's easy to dismiss the 'hot' actors and action stars, but muscles don't necessarily mean a person will/won't be just as talented outside of the gym too.
"Chris Hemsworth might just be the best actor in the MCU" *chuckles lightly* "Brie Larson is acting royalty on the same level as Sam Jackson and Anthony Hopkins" *WHEEZES*
Off topic: Just a suggestion for your next Couples therapy is to do Pirates of the Caribbean. There’s Will and Elizabeth’s relationship or Davy Jones and Calypso’s relationship. I think those would be an interesting analysis.
i would love to see you do an episode on hunchback of notre dame's villain frollo. he's my favorite animated disney villain because he's so terrifyingly realistic. also the movie is so underappreciated!
Yeah Odin has very terrible parenting, in the comics version of this story, Odin calls Thor home from Midgard after an adventure there and Thor refuses so he curses him without his powers and leaves him on Earth, its more funny because Thor gets arrested and Loki disguises himself and pays his bail while gloating. Like Odin basically punished Thor like a dog because he said "Come here" and Thor said no. Doesn't help that Rock Trolls almost seize Asgard because of Odin's pride.
Odin is one of the single biggest idiots in the entire MCU when it comes to simple cause and effect. Thor's pride aside, he was pretty much hitting the nail on the head when he called Odin a fool.
Another way Odin's a fool; Hela, Thor and Loki would have been so OP if they were raised thogether in a healthy environment. Hela comands the dead and has a huge fuck off wolf for a steed, Thor can summon/control lightning on his own but likes to have a weapon to both channel/aim it (and also to have a weapon), and Loki is a powerful magic user who cares deeply even if he pretends not to and that's on top of having a habit of selfpreservational scheming. We were cheated of this necromancer/druid, barbarian/paladin, rogue/warlock dream team.
Good stuff. It would have be fun to include the What If... episode that explores what would happen if Odin had not adopted Loki and he and Thor were both raised as only children. It's a silly story, but very entertaining.
I loved that episode for establishing that if they weren't raised as brothers, they'd still be just as close, if not a bit more generally innocent/naive but it feels like their relationship is just so much healthier overall.
Until this very moment, I thought when Loki was in the cell on Asgard talking to Frigga that HE had conjured a fake Frigga to talk to. I watched this movie just LAST NIGHT and still thought that. Only NOW do I realize it really WAS Frigga who had projected herself into the cell smh 🤦🏽♀️
yes but Loki had the best relationship with Frigga out of all the Asgardians. Loki loved Frigga like a mom and Frigga despite him not being her biological son loved Loki like one . we can see there relationship better though the context of when he was in the cell when Loki tell Frigga she isn't his mother he does it so hesitantly like he doesn't really want to admit it and the hurt on both of their faces after works speaks volumes and also after he finds out she is dead despite putting up the illusion that makes him seem so calm when that's dissolved away you can see the shear amount of grief and pain Loki feels for not only his mothers death but knowing the last words he told her before she died was she wasn't his mother when to him that couldn't be further from the truth he trashed that room out of pain that he felt for her death and knowing he could do nothing to help and maybe and this is my opinion but maybe he felt guilty knowing if he wouldn't have been the way he was he could have saved her . thats why he was so mad at Thor cause in the end he is not really mad at him but at himself
@@kesshodawn8504 that and he felt responsible for her death as he lead the dude Odin's bedroom*? by telling them where it was... which she was at the time with Jane.
Honestly that’s a valid interpretation cuz if Loki before his hero arc wanted to talk to anyone when he gets lonely in his cell I’m positive it would be Frigga
@@pinkjessjmb also Frigga trained Loki in his magic so out of everyone she knew how he was and what his true character was like and never feared him. she was one badass mama
The scene when Thor said that he thought the world of Loki is one of my favorite scenes in the MCU. I feel like Loki often had this idea in his mind that he was always right, so to see his astonished look when Thor said that always gets me. Family dynamics are one of my favorite things to look at in terms of heroes and villains and the MCU has so many different examples of good and bad family dynamics.
18:40 Jon saying that just made me think (as someone with Inattentive ADHD myself) that his job is first watching a family soap opera unfold (meeting the family and getting to know their issues) and then fulfilling every fanfiction readers' dream of fixing (or at least guiding) said issues 'before the show ends'.
Loki is my comfort character. He knows pain and yet he manages to jest. I know the feeling of being raised and expected to do and be things, never being able to achieve them. I know the feeling of not being able to call anything home. I know the feeling that the world has left you and you're all on your own. Looking at Loki helped me to believe I can survive this.
Surprised you guys didn’t go over Frigga’s death and how that changed their dynamic. Even more so in the Disney plus loki show, Loki learns HE was responsible for the death of the one person that loved him unconditionally
I only watched the MCU last year out of boredom. But grew to like the Odinson storyline. Because I related so much! As I had strict traditional father who I always wanted to gain approval from. I had the jokey jock older brother who messed up a lot but could really do no wrong. I had an older sister who did what she liked and left the family dynamic early on and always had this feeling she was better than us, but she always felt separated from the rest of us. Then there's me a bit like loki, always feeling different and insecure and never really fitting in. I was close to my mother like him but our relationship was tense as she knows me best when I lash out. So many family dynamic scenes always made so much sense to me and made me reflect. People hate on the mcu, but even between the crappy cgi and overly used jokes, some of the early drama anyway stood out to me and can see why the movies connected to people universally.
No we cannot say thanks for taika waititi, there were some weird, maybe petty ways in which Tom Hiddleston was treated during Ragnarok film, the writing of his character, deleted scenes of Loki being humiliated in nasty ways and after at comic con them mocking the reaction of fans to Tom... As some fans pointed out back in the day. But Hiddleston was so professional about it, that only some very dedicated fans noticed these things behind the scenes and in interviews
I never heard any of this but I always felt that Waititi does not like Hiddleston. It was simply a feeling, kind of weird as I had no confirmation. Unprofessional if you ask me.
@@angelika9396 the brothers have some moments in Ragnarok. But Thor was supposed to have become wiser in the first 2 movies. Then comes the third "funny" one and in that movie he doesn't react to the warriors 3 being murdered. He breaks lots of objects in Dr Strange's place, when he can control the hammer not to do that. He's ok with Loki being made to fall for 30 minutes, when he saw his brother commit suicide in the first movie by falling (Thanos resurrected him). He blames Loki for Hela, when it was Odin's lies that caused the situation. He immediately becomes friends with Valkyrie, a slave owner at that point (in a movie that was supposed to show the wrongs of colonialism). He tells her not to trust Loki, who is put in chains for doing the same as Val, minus the slavery. In a deleted scene Loki is put in a public restroom and made invisible and is peed over by many people, but Thor just laughs about it because in classic Waititi style "haha pee jokes". He tell Loki, that Loki will never change, implying he's the better one, then tricks him by putting a device that tortures him on the neck, leaving him lying on the floor and again it's haha a joke, etc
@@Elven. the falling for 20 minutes, portable toilet and obedience disc on Loki scenes are ones I explicitly hate. There are some nice Loki Thor scenes, I love every scene Cate Blanchett is in, but this is the Loki movie I like the least.
Kinda glad I'm not the only one. Ragnarok was enjoyable and I get it reinvigorated the series but I didn't like how they turned everything into a joke.
Speaking of family dynamics, Hereditary is a great movie about that too. It's a family drama film for me (with demons) and a very good one at that. I hope you guys cover it in the future!
GOD that scene of the nightmare/dream/whatever of her COVERED in lighter fluid THAT'S good visual storytelling and it provides LITERALLY all the context clues you need for the mother and son lack of relationship they have. Why he keeps his distance, why he completely just broke down and started apologizing over and over....damn.
@@TheRibottoStudios I can talk about that movie all day, it's so good. That dinner table scene alone was oscar worthy. The relationship between Annie (the mother) and her mother was not shown, but we know how it was because of the elite storytelling, that bad relationship bled to Annie's family, it's sad and true.
I saw Love and Thunder last week, and this made me realize HOW LONG it's been since I saw the first two Thor movies. I forgot that Tom and Chris ever looked that young. They were basically unknowns then!
I love going back & watching the banishing scene after what we know now from all the films, it’s actually unsettling how much Thor was sounding like Hela, he was going down the same path as her and even Odin had done. I think that’s what Odin feared the most & knew Thor still had hope for change unlike Hela. He definitely knew what he was doing. He wouldn’t have sent the hammer down with him if he didn’t. He would have just done what he did to Hela.
28:30 That's a pretty strong condemnation for Hela. I'd think it's more like everyone else went to family therapy and complained about her without her having a real chance to defend herself. Odin decides that he will never confront his past, her. If they're going to be doing family therapy you'd need both of them in the room, and Odin decided that would never happen. And he is probably the only one she can air her grievances about.
Yeah, we never really see how Hela and Odin were communicating during the whole 'heel face turn' to peaceful tyrant. Did he steamroller her to try and make her change to fit his new vision? Did he hear her out and offer her options that she rejected? We know it ended with her deciding to wipe out him and those loyal to him in a very bloody coup. And then when no one remembers her, she pretty much goes 'eh, my friends will be my undead minions and this guy I am bullying!'. I get the feeling she didn't have a lot of friends or other family or close relationships. It seems her whole identity revolve around being the best at battle and heir to the throne.
The love hate relationship is something I can relate to. "Here is you're sibling who is perfect and can do no wrong. Why can't you be more like them?" You love and hate them because through the comparison you love and hate yourself. My entire family taught me I am broken and all the best parts of me don't matter. Everything you think, feel and do isn't enough to compare to the idealised version of your siblings. You will never be enough to deserve love. This idea of Thor is the twisted mirror through which Loki views himself.
I can relate to Loki a lot. My parents keep that I have ASD a secret from me and everyone else, only founding out myself at 22 after accidently stumbling upon some files from various psychologists I remembered seeing as a kid. When I confronted my mom about it, she told me that she and my dad would have felt embarrassed if people knew they had an Autistic child. I also felt conditional love from my dad because he was only supportive whenever I was doing the things he liked, such as sports, and threw tantrums whenever I decided to do my own thing. The betrayal and conditional behaviour towards me hurt so much that I barely trust anyone. My mom would eventually realize the damage she had caused and our relationship is a lot better.
For real! I have ADHD,but I know that only now. My mom Out of anger, I tore up the conclusion of the medical commission and generally denied that I had it.
Something i luved in the series is how loki sacrifices his life for thor and his dialogue "believe me brother the sun will shine on us again " and it felt so genuine and full of emotion. I have always loved loki so much that i want to say HE DESERVED A BETTER ENDING!
The fact that a whole family would be willing to participate in family therapy is impressive. Most of my family is open to therapy, but we've never been able to actually do a family session. Good job to the families that do it! 👏 👏 👏
I’d really like to see a deeper analysis on Thor himself (if ya’ll haven’t made one yet) personally Thor is one of my favorite characters. I find him so interesting, there’s really a lot of layer sit him that many people don’t really see. I feel like, ironically enough, his story gets overshadowed by Loki pretty often. I really love what Taika Waititi has been doing with his character especially, I feel like he managed to make him so much more human in a sense.
My mom called me and my brother a disssapointment because we dropped out of college 5 years ago. Oh and not only that but because we had to move back home because of our respected issues.....she said we could and then later called us a disappointment, luckily he wasn't there but that was a GREAT New Years introduction 👍🏾! Having parents like this is awful and I'm realizing that this video is giving me great anxiety but I still love this. Family in general gives me anxiety, mainly parents and parenting. Siblings are fine, honestly they way they treated us brought us together but distanced ourselves from them. So...🤷🏾♀️ I love Louis story because I understand to a certain point, mainly from the child parent relationship. Except less toxic but still toxic
Yeah, it feels like sometimes parents don't hear what comes out of their own mouths. Or they think that just because you're adults then their job of parenting is done. It's so frustrating and heartbreaking. Internet stranger though I am, you and your brother have my sympathies.
That look Loki gives when Odin says "My sons...." It's hesitant, and hopeful and doubtful, but you just can't miss the craving for just a millisecond. "Son? please, say it again ... Just once more... Please .... Dad."
The elevator scene in Ragnarok is the best Thor/Loki scene just because you can see how much Thor really does love Loki. Also the scene in Infinity War when Loki claims the Odinson title, it’s just so so good.
There are plenty of flaws with the newest film, Love and Thunder, but at the very least I think where Thor ends up in that movie is absolutely perfect. Even with all of the pain he has had to go through and everything he has had ripped away from him, he gets some well deserved happiness, and he gets to use everything he learned from his upbringing and family to raise his own.
When my daughter is in trouble, she does things she shouldn’t have, she has consequences (usually timeouts). But I always make sure to tell her that while I am mad and sad at her behavior, I love her the same anyway. That my love for her will never change.
That one word: my sons. That's it without any favoring, any admiration of Thor alone proves once and for all that what Loki said at the end of the first Thor movie was sooooo deep and honest: "I never wanted the throne, I just wanted us to be equals..."
What I always loved about the first fight between Thor and Odin...the shock on Loki's face is real as Hiddleston was responding to the completely adlibbed fury that Hopkins was giving off.
This isn't super related to the video but i wanted to share. i remember cosplaying loki in his black suit before coming out as trans. I wore it to halloween party, hair slicked back and all , and i felt so good and confident and comfortable. now, every time i see that scene with him in that outfit, i remember how far i've come since then. It's just a really good memory and a really good feeling
To me Loki is very relatable,my mother hates me and she yells at me a lot even though she *knows* I hate yelling so I feel like an outcast,like Loki. I try to tell her to stop but she always continues,I try to avoid her but she always finds a way to yell at me,after finding the Marvel movies,I saw Loki and I was like….”I feel this soooo hard” and I’m very grateful you did the Asgardian family,I feel a bit better after this so thanks
One thing to keep in mind is that Odin isn't just Thor's father, he is also his King whom he has essentially committed treason against, and Thor is a Prince of the Realm who has certain duties and obligations that are required of him, When Odin calls him unworthy he is not calling him unworthy of his love, he is calling him unworthy of his Power and Privilege because he has abused them. As the King, Odin has to put aside his personal feelings for his son and put the Realm First. A lot of cases of terrible Kings are because their parents were unable to come down hard on them when they really screwed up. A very good example of this is the tragic history between King David and his son Absolom.
Always thought it was really nice of Odin to toss the hammer somewhere close to where Thor landed. He could have thrown it to the other side of the planet. Also, really sweet of him to send Thor somewhere they spoke the same language so he wouldn't get too confused.
The "Thor" movie is still one of my favourites in the MCU! That scene with Odin enchanting Mjolnir was powerful with the way the camera moved around, the tone of his voice , and the music. Still a great Shakespearean, action, and comedic movie.
mythologyyyyyyyy thor and loki with nephew uncle (perhaps same age uncle nephew but y would odin b blood bros with a kid) dynamic would be jsut as funny and dysfunctional
Please do Wanda from doctor strange multi-universe. She needs extreme therapy because it’s sad that she truly believes she has children and want to change the world in her favor to be with them, in reality if a mother lost her biological children in foster care or she gave them up. She would fight to get them back
I’ll be honest, I’ve never been super driven by character deaths in movies, I’m the psycho on the corner of the sofa trying not to laugh, but Loki’s death hit hard. Now that the Loki season two finale is out, I’m really hoping that the sun will shine on them again
Where "Frigga" speaks to Loki, isn't it just Loki's magic projecting her? I think, it makes this scene even more interesting. It's sort of a micture of things his mother would actually say to him as well as him talking to himself. He knows he did bad stuff and should just stop and come back to the family, but the second "Frigga" says "your father" (so basically Loki forgetting the truth for a second because it felt so normal to be part of the family) and then the hurt kicking in of the truth and him yelling "He's not my father"...it just shows so well how much he fights with himself. He really just wants this family to work out and have his people loving him unconditional without ulterior motives, but the fact Odin "only took him to assure peace" between the Frost Giants and the Asgardians just breaks him apart.
no, it's not loki's imagination, it's just an holographic phone thingy. sure, they both use magic but it's really her talking to him. we see in a deleted scene that frigga was indeed talking to loki from her room.
When I feel in need of direction or healing, I find myself imagining that I'm talking to my mentors. They're all people I've been close to in real life (like professors)... and then there are you guys. Jonathan and Alan have found their way into the round table discussion of me and my mentors. It's wacky, but you've been great role models and given me great advice, even if it's not in as personal a way as those other mentors. Thank you both :)
Request: Emperor's New Groove. Very well executed film. So lots to discuss there. But also the relationships! You could go over narcissism vs histrionic disorder and codependency vs healthy boundaries... so much compare ad contrast there. Also Goofy Movie? Teenage and parent dynamics. Also an underrated movie. And yes I am a millennial and no I do not live in my mom's basement :)
VENT : My Dad is a hoarder, he’s always been one but over lockdown he has been getting more and more obsessive. Every time he goes out to the shops he comes back with a ton of stuff that we will not need, a compulsive buyer who loves a bargain. We’ve tried so much my mum has confronted him so many times about it, writing letters, getting me to talk to him. It would be ok if he bought stuff that we needed but it isn’t, rather than just calling my mum and asking what we already have at home, he buys so much and it’s wasteful. Every time me or my mum try to hold him accountable he says stuff like, I’m too tired, I don’t want to talk about this, your mum’s already talked to me about this, I usually say something along the lines of when are we going to talk about it then? and he makes another excuse. It’s gotten to the point where the garage is a mess full of garbage that we don’t need, the garden room is ceiling high with boxes upon boxes of stuff, tins of soup or beans. It’s gotten to the point that my mum often feels uncomfortable in her own home because every room is a mess, she doesn’t want people around because she feels embarrassed. We’ve tried to clean it, we’ve done house cleanings but every time the mess keeps on piling up. It hurts my mum and me so much and my Dad just doesn’t notice or doesn’t care. I would suggest going to a form of therapy but I know that he would just refuse and honestly I don’t know what to do at this point. Now let’s not get this confused my Dad is a caring father who loves us so much. I think it may be connected to my Grandad as my mum said that he was also a hoarder which means it’s possible that he just doesn’t see it because he was brought up in it, and this might be a coping mechanism. I really just don’t know what to do.
As a lot of Odinson family lovers will show up here: I can recommend a very well written fanfiction that explores the family dynamic further, 200+ chapters, sadly not finished, not updated since april, but really really good. I found it recommended in RU-vid comments as well. BENEATH is the name of the story.
As a teacher I try to incorporate a lot of this into my attitude towards my kids. I try to make them feel supported and accepted, so that they feel comfortable taking risks and growing. There are students that this doesn't work with of course, but I've noticed with a lot of my quiet kids especially, they start to open up and become more active in the classroom. It makes me so proud to see them connecting with their peers and growing.
The “become better due to no pressure” really hit due to the fact that my gf loves me while i barely cleaned my room, rarely washed my sheets, and she didnt mind, so i just started taking care of myself cleaning more, washing stuff, keeping my room freshly smelled, buying candles, actually decent clothing,dress shoes, ect, but when im told i need to change, i feel invalidated to the point i think they dont love me for who i am (by family)
i am at a loss for words. i was just marathonning your videos and there you are, explaining to me why my relationship to my mother has always been shit and will always be despite my many MANY attempts to 'fix' it. its insane you guys. KEEP DOING WHAT YOURE DOING. I LOVE YOU
