UPDATE! I have driven the Jeep roughly 100 miles and the temperature outside got up to 86 degrees F. I could totally tell a difference! The loss of power after driving in the heat is gone and it has some good "grunt" right off the line. Overall the power delivery is much more consistent (like a normal car lol). Maybe its a little faster but its still not...fast. This mod just worked its way to the top of my list of favorite mods. For the cost (basically none) it has noticeable results. Now we wait till winter to find out if the original sensor placement had anything to do with cold weather! More updates to come.
Thanks for the vid and update man! Good to know. I’m definitely doing this. I’m actually making my own cowl induction system with abs pipe and silicon elbows. Fortunately it will pass right my that sensor so I probably won’t even need to extend the wire. Keep the 2.5 videos coming. I’m glad to see someone else who appreciates an underdog engine
@@williamburch1321 Sorry I replied with my other account.. same thing though I would love to see photos, Same email address laffingstok@gmail.com Thanks for watching!
I know, right??? This is my favorite YJ channel. I love my 2.5, but WOW, is it gutless! Hahahaha I'm looking forward to getting some of these mods done on mine!
LOVE YOUR CHANNEL, Brother!!! I love taking my gutless, slow..... dang 4 banger YJ and little by little, with every mod, I am seeing increases in "PEPPY-NESS" at lower speeds around town and an over-all increase so far of close to 20mph improvement on the freeway! It will now almost hit 80!! :)
It only costs time, and it looks fairly worthy to do ! I indeed noticed that cold air like in every car does a difference ! But also it is claimed that renewing that sensor makes a good power up. Most of these are from back in the days when those Jeeps was sold new and 20 years for a sensor it's a bit too much !
Maybe pick up a junkyard sensor and put it in the stock location. It should seal fine even when not plugged in, and then you can swap the plug back and forth from the stock to the new sensor on a hot day and maybe with back to back runs you will be able to see more difference (or not). Can't wait for updates!
@@JeepSheepTV Pffft.. that sensor is like $18 with enough wire/connector to relocate cheaper without the connector as well. www.ebay.com/itm/Air-Charge-Temperature-Sensor-FSK-Walker-Products-210-91013/143676825365?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
@@JeepSheepTV i was thinking the same thing but you could have a toggle switch for cold start then switch to more power. With 2 new sensors- this would be the true test if this works while driving if you flipped the toggle.
I agree, however I really like this location from a packaging stand point and the sensor does have a protective cage around it so I figured it was worth a shot.
I looked at a base tune for a '97 XJ 4.0 in VCM suite: For fuel injection: At 68F the fuel correction parameter is 1.1367. At 140F it is 1.0781. For spark, at 68F and manifold pressure >80.0 kPa, there are 2 additional degrees of advance (and even more for colder temps). In comparison, at 127F, there is 0 additional advance. By relocating the IAT, in regular weather you're getting a richer mixture and some more advance. E.g. here it was 75 degrees here the other day, but my manifold mounted IAT was reading ~125F. I assume they probably did account for the IAT location reading being hot when they were developing the tuning - but you really wonder if this tuning was performed for Toledo Ohio. Hence why some guys report gains and others report losses
@supercoolbuddiesclub2408 I didn't know about the timing adjustments. That's very interesting! I would assume that it performs best the closer the reading is to the actual air temp entering the engine.
I think I will try drilling air box. Add O ring to outside of sensor a placing a brass nut inside air box and a little blue loctite. GREAT IDEA!!! 98 TJ 2.5 GETTING NEW ENGINE IN 2 WEEKS!! Long live 2.5 iron...
I have done more reading on this mod and I had suspected that running rich at open throttle may cause carbon buildup on pistons and could lead to detonation, something to think about.
Playing with the iac on a resister slide is given more fuel and keeping it there with out the a/f sensor being able to compensate in time before shifts. I think I'm ready for the AMR 500.
You are adjusting the Idle air valve to change AFR? Now that's interesting. Or are you referring to the inlet air temp? The AMR 500 seems to put out a pretty small amount of air per revolution. Might be too small for this displacement of engine. Take a look at the Eaton M60.
@@JeepSheepTV so from what I can tell what's happening is that whenever you adjust the resistance on the idle air control valve solenoid it is affecting the values on the af sensor that is causing a controllable air fuel mixture. Uncensored air ?. I think there's a simple way to trick this engine into higher fuel ratios using uncensored air
@@JeepSheepTV already got the supercharger ,belt that I think's going to work, Mount that I made that I think is going to work and pulley that thinks going to work I just haven't had time to put it in there yet but I'm going to see if there is a way to supercharge it without having to program it. If I can get an extra 30 horsepower I'll be happy
I'm going to try this on my 89 jeep wrangler yj 2.5L. I have a real time pcm monitor that tells me just about everything the engine is doing while it's running from thrown codes to injector pulse time to rich lean condition and if its in open or closed loop.
The tune for emissions is not necessarily lean! One of the main things that the EPA wants to control is nitrogen oxide levels. These go up in lean, hot, combustion. This is what got VW in trouble in the dieselgate scandal because they were lying to the emissions test with software in the car. This is why European cars have a hard time meeting emissions. They are concerned with fuel economy and particulates while in the US they are concerned with nitrogen oxide levels and these are diametrically opposed.
I remember this from one of my engines classes in college. The topic of emissions and economy can be quite the rabbit hole! Thanks for watching my videos I am really enjoying your comments! I want to see this 2.5l you mentioned previously.
Thanks for the video my tj had rough idle after it got warm just moved it up into my cold air intake it's cold out now I will post an update in a couple of weeks
I love this channel! Would wrapping the exhaust manifold in the insulating tape(like I see on many hot rods) also help to keep the heat from radiating into the engine bay, and out the exhaust pipe where it's supposed to going?
Yes, you will see a lot of 4.0 guys put heat wrap on their intake manifolds for this very reason. I would like to do the same on mine as well as it would help. Moving the sensor is a bit more dramatic and ensures that heat soak will not have an effect on the sensor. Wrapping the manifold will make it so it takes longer for heat soak to have an effect on the sensor (if it's in OEM position).
I know it's been awhile but, I picked up a 2001 Dakota base pickup. 2.5/AX-15 rwd (3.55) I've had a few Cherokees with the 2.5 and I like them. Fairly easy to work on and there are some performance parts. But as you know, the cost doesn't bring much. I'd like to ask if you've whittled down the vacuum lines and "trees" where they come together (im to tired to scroll through your videos). I like the hard plastic lines for durability but the rubber hoses usually split.
I am using mostly silicone lines right now, they are really easy to work with and do well in high heat applications. Just keep them away from anything that can tear them, they are easy to cut and or pull off. So really good for engine bay but maybe bad for the lines that run under the jeep to the transfer case or transmission. I have also reduced my number of vacuum lines. I no longer use vac for my front axle disconnect and I have removed the line that goes under the dash.
i just moved my new iat sensor, the threads were bigger i didnt want to drill manifold yet. 1987 jeep comamche 2.5, finding the correct ohm sensor took awhile
Just stumbled across your channel. Great intel here, and glad to see videos on the 2.5L YJ. Enjoying mine so far. May explore this mod. Just trying to smooth the engine out right now. O2 sensor helped and got rid of that CEL. Now need to replace MAP sensor and possibly this manifold sensor. If I move it, I was thinking of moving it to post-filtered air rather than pre-filtered air as you did. Thoughts on that?
Isn’t there two different types of ambient sensors in these jeeps ? …. I believe there’s one in the intake that we all seen and the other one near the Grill . Is that correct ?
What would be a good location for the sensor on this jeep with a cold air intake? (ie. the air box is replaced with just a filter and piping to the throttle body.) I would still like to relocate the sensor just not sure what would be the ideal location in this scenario.
This would pass a smog test in any state unless there were other issues with the engine or sensors. Its also easily reversible for a test if you purchase a new IAT and leave the old in the manifold. Then just unplug the new and plug back the manifold factory location. Very unlikely that this would be necessary just for smog test, possibly for extreme cold weather startup though ?
Everything helps, although with the 4cyl the under hood temps are not too high. The issue I outline in this video is mainly heat being conducted to the temp sensor through the aluminum intake manifold causing it to read warmer than the air rushing into the engine. So removing the sensor from the manifold is intended to make the reading more accurate, as you move further away from the manifold you may cause the reading to be colder than what is going into the engine resulting in it running more rich, which I did on purpose in this video.
@@JeepSheepTV PERFECT!!! As an option and possible benefit: Relocating to the intake tube just above the throttle body doesn't require any soldering! The existing connector will reach. Just locate the sensor just above the throttle body. I drilled a hole using a 1/2" drill bit, threaded the sensor in and RTV'd both inside and out. I think my 4 banger will hit 80 now. When I bought it last month, it would barely do 60. Just FYI- I have seafoamed the crap out of it, swapped a 4.0L throttle body and spacer, bored the intake manifold to match the 58mm TB and now this easy FREE mod! ALso, just want to add, you can buy a 12" or longer wiring extension for this sensor on eBay for $12 in case you prefer to locate it on the air box but don't want to solder. It's FREE or CHEAP!! From the JEEP SHEEP!! Btw...I've looked all over for my own Jeep Sheep and cannot find one....any advice??? :)
I suppose a small threaded plate or even a nut of sorts inside the intake tube to thread the sensor into would be better than just RTV. If the RTV doesn't hold up, I will do that.
@@tomynoks Lol my wife made my Jeep sheep. we may have to make a few more and put them on the store. We do have stickers now however. Jeepsheeptvstore.com
You can put it on the intake piping. Drill a hole, stick it in and you can epoxy it in place or maybe your can try to thread it into the hole, whatever works.
It is vey difficult to answer that accurately. Because this engine is relatively underpowered your MPG can vary wildly based on wind direction, number of hills, number of stoplights, driving habits, and more. I also have a fuel controller that I use for other tuning characteristics so it impossible for me to tell if my mpg has changed based on the sensor location alone. My best guess is that you will likely burn a little more fuel because its no longer starving the engine once the manifold is hot. With that said I think that the affect on mpg is very small compared to the factors I listed above. LOL I have had a change of 8mpg based on wind alone!
I've already got it on the exhaust header. Moving the sensor is going to produce better results and for less effort and money. That doesn't mean that wrapping the intake manifold is a bad idea, I have been considering it.
14:08 A riveted plate here, I haven't tested it but it seems mettalic. It is near the air entrance not plain front but the sensor can catch the air okay. Question is does threading the sensor directly in it will offer enough material to hold strong ? Main advantage is that it seems less risky to crack the airbox when threading because it's an independent removable part that can be duplicated to a thicker one if needed. It needs a longer sensor wire extend but it's a minor trouble
I looked at that area. I don't think you can thread directly into it but you can do something there. I chose not to go there because since I have E fans and no shroud I will actually stand in the engine bay when I work on stuff. I didn't want to put the sensor in a place where I could bump into it and break it easily.
You can buy an extension connector for about $12 on eBay. There are 12" up to 22" that i saw.. Would be useful for having 2 sensors, one on intake in original spot and one wherever to test best locations.
Update: The ext cable is NOT an exact fit!! It is made for later Wrangler models. The harness will plug into it, but the sensor connector needs a little modification to plug in. Still, this is a way to do this mod without soldering, or you can do like I did and locate the sensor just above the throttle body on the intake tube without modifying the harness whatsoever.
Jeep Sheep, at one point I believe I read a post noting a rich condition after this mod. Did you experience such a thing? Are you still happy with this mod?
Yea, he got a rich condition code on his TJ. My YJ doesn't seem to throw a code but that could due to its antiquated ECU technology. I do belive it increases fuel usage but I am still happy with it as the gradual loss of power a the engine warms up is gone.
Why not just wrap the intake manifold. No matter what having the temp sensor as close to the head as possible would give you the best fuel mixture created by the ecm. In air conditioning systems the coils are normally less than 3in wide and that has the ability to change air temp up to 20 degrees what do you think would happen traveling through the intake manifold.
Keep in mind air conditioning systems utilize phase change special fluid to change temp as much as possible so the systems are not quite equivalent. However you make a good point that being near the head will give the most accurate reading. In this case I'm recognizing that the ecu takes that reading and then adjusts for best emissions, I want to favor power over emissions so I'm actually trying to trick the ECU a little bit. I also feel that the placement of the sensor may not have been optimal right out of the factory as you can see that many other cars locate them in or near the air box.
Got it I understand where your coming from. Yes tricking the ecm would produce more fuel to be injected producing a little more power. But would also lead to more fuel not efficiently being burned off creating more build up in the engine. The only way I can see this being used beneficial is if you did this and a bigger throttle body at the same time. Then pray that our guess of the increase in air from the throttle body and tricking the ecm to think more condensed colder air is entering the cylinder are equivalent. Otherwise I just see an increase in build up and some short lived o2 sensors.
@@dpitcher21 I do have a bigger TB, header, and a fuel controller. My plugs used to come out looking really lean so I've been doing a lot to add fuel. I'm working on using the controller and wide band to tune it just the way I want. The issue I kept having with the previous sensor location was consistency. I would come off the highway and suddenly I had less power and a rough idle. That no longer happens with the new sensor location.
IAT sensor is ment to adjust timing according to temperature..the motor might detonate because you are basically fooling the sensor to read cooler air . Reality being the fact that the motor might still pull in air much hotter than the sensor is reading....you can get away with this by using a higher octane fuel
I tried this relocation on my 4.0 ltr. 6 cyl. Didn't really notice a difference, but maybe I'm expecting too much. Is there a reason we wouldn't just mount the sensor way out of the way, where the air is cold ?
Hard to say if you will notice much with the 4.0 since it has better power delivery. I have an AFR gauge since I'm supercharged and the more I play with it on a hot day the more I think I can see it adding fuel due to the new sensor location. You still want it to be reading accurate inlet temps just not touching the hot manifold. Probably the best place is right before the throttle body.
I have a 2005 TJ (4.0L); in south Alabama in the summer there is no "cold air" under the hood. In fact it is so hot that you can't touch the hood prop bare handed when it has reached normal op temperature. I have the intermittent "die on the HWY" when I'm hot gremlin and have done several mods to reduce heat soaking (wrapped thermal insulation on the fuel lines, fuel rail, injectors, 2x the manifold heat shield). I replaced the original ASD relay, replaced the PCM, wired in an isolated +5V sub-regulator PS for the CPS sensor, replaced both O2 sensors, replaced manifold y pipes and catalytic converters (all of these have thrown error codes during a heat soak event). The issue of rough starting and idling after reaching normal engine temps (when stopping for gas or at a longgggg red light) was solved by wrapping the fuel lines and fuel rail and installing the DEI heat shield kit. The big heat soak issue that I am fighting currently is the "die on the HWY" when I'm hot gremlin for which I am very willing to try relocating the MAT sensor to the air box - I have had this on my to try list for years but you were the first "Tubie" to make a video of it. I'll set it up so that I can swap between the original sensor on the manifold and the new sensor in the air box. I'll post the results ASAP - not going to take long as it is +99degs and it won't take but 15 minutes of city driving to make it bonk! Thanks for posting.
@@DadWorksVA I haven’t moved the manifold air temperature sensor yet; I got past the peak summer commute with out a die on the highway event. It manifests as a rough idle when the under the hood temps get above 160deg. My plans are to install a turbo 4” fan on a thermostat to blow directly across the twin mini cats. I have tested this by pulling into the garage after a heat run and using a leaf blower on low speed. With the hood closed and the engine idling the blower drops the temp from >190deg to < 140deg. The idle goes from rough to smooth; so I’m thinking the heat issue causes either the ethanol to boil or engine sensors to go out of range or I have a cracked manifold or any of the combinations above. I flushed the engine and replaced the coolant and. Thermostat last winter; the engine stays at 220 during the heat soak events and is not affected by it. I’m convinced this is an external behavior cause by the heat radiating off of the mini cats.
@@JeepSheepTV Thanks for the heads up, as it turns out I do have the RENIX and have since ordered the R.E.M from NickinTime. I was wondering for a while there why information was so clouded when I'd look into some of these mods, my Jeep does what everyone elses does when it heats up......it loses a bit of it's go.
It is really hard to say without know what else is going on. If the IAT's are dying due to oil or something else in the intake then maybe. Otherwise if you have replaced the sensor more than once for the same issue it is likely the problem lives somewhere else in the system. I would check wiring for shorts. Doing this mod could help you determine if the wiring is the problem or if something is going on in the intake manifold, but I would not consider it a solution to a 23 code.
Explain more, I can't remember do you have a TJ? I can't seem to get that kind of data out of my PCM. It certainly changes the AFR, the question is: do you like it? So far I haven't seen any engine codes but my poor Jeep has been in the garage a lot lately.
Nice Mod. 22:59 As an Italian American I would prefer to hear the term "Italian Swine" instead of "Guinea Pig" to ensure you don't "offend" anyone. Too many butthurt cry baby people in our country these days. JEEP LIVES MATTER!!!
