/ forgottenweapons www.floatplane... Cool Forgotten Weapons merch! shop.forgottenw... Today we are taking a look at H&K's PDW, the MP7. Specifically, we're going to go over the changes made from the MP7A1 to the MP7A2 pattern...
the thing is that there is a semi auto version, it's manufactured exclusively for the uk mod police, why they haven't tried to market the weapon to other law enforcement agencies or even civilians is beyond me.
Designed for: easy to use in such a way that untrained personel could defend against a paradrop of special forces. Actual use: special forces paradropping into situations fighting untrained personel. Uno Reverse card.
The German Bundeswehr did adopt it as a main weapon for everyone who can't carry around a G36, like helicopter crews, medics, artillery crews, truck drivers and so on. You see it quite often when you look at pictures of German troops in Afghanistan or Mali.
To some extent. When I did my conscript service in late 2010, I was stationed at a logistics battalion and standard issue for us was the G36. I'm not aware of any MP7s in our entire base, except for maybe with the Feldjäger company. But I've never seen one, and I was never trained on the MP7. I also know of medics who got issued G36 rifles. However, the MP7 certainly does exist for such troops as well in the Bundeswehr, I'm not sure how it was decided who gets them and who not. Maybe it was still a transitional period, maybe most of them went to Afghanistan at the time, I don't know.
@@Hurricane2k8 when i did my service around 2008 there were MP7s around and every crew man that was deployed got them. But us doing the compulsory service didn't. We still used the MP2 (Uzi) at the time. Simply for the fact that they were expensive and it took time to replace them. So the people in the field were of course the first once to get them. In fact my platoon leader nearly shot a guy with the thing during his first tour. He basically got one when he arrived in Afghanistan, never trained with one before, never even saw it. :D
Several german police forces have also begun adopting it as replacements for MP5s, especially special forces. Much easier to work with for an entry team kicking the door down than a full-sized rifle, yet more capable than an MP5 when it comes to barrier penetration.
True, it's made as PDW for units and soldiers which are situated a bit far from battle first lines, like an artillery crews, persones from comunications, logistic hubs and various auxillary units. Soon after weapon's introduction, the MP7 in all it's variants are adopted as weapons of choice for different special purpose units, profesional bodyguards, etc..
I think it's in use in Norway too. My friend who actually served told me some of them were issued an MP7. Norway uses a lot of HK guns, namely the G3, HK416, MP5 and MP7. The MG3 too, but that's Rheinmetall. Now I didn't serve in the military, but several of my freinds did their mandatory service. And we all have a common interest in guns and stuff.
Somewhere in the world, at this very moment, highly trained people are performing critical, high-risk missions with a weapon designed for cooks, and mechanics.
@@kerednilon4276 Can you imagine one day they reveal the guy who shot Bin Laden and he is indeed the cook for the whole unit. As he quote:" Bin Laden Just got served".
@@ThePonchoJoe And it's also incredibly easy to do, it's the program that does the tracking. 12 years olds use the same option to stick real faces on fictional characters in meme gifs. So.... 0/2 lol.
@@ThePonchoJoe it must've been requested by the gun's owner as he never hides markings in other videos. It's hide the markings or don't show the gun at all deal probably
I really appreciated the visual comparison of the cartridges. Sometimes it's difficult for me to understand cartridges as I don't ever see them in real life, so I wish you'd do this more often, take a 5.56, a 7.62 or a 9mm or whatever and give us a comparison if you can!
@D R I can't speak for GB, but even though I live in United States the only cartridge I've handled is the .22LR. Everything I know about guns is mostly from books, videos, web articles and talking to people. Even with loose gun laws it's just easier to learn things that way.
Ammo is a great visual for these videos, but many places have specific rules against live ammunition in the same room as guns. So many times it’s just not an option
@@yorick6035 every single Marine and army troop I've ever spoken with who has shot this says they love it. Honestly it's kind of hard to not love this gun after you shoot it
1:44 "Let's dive into, how exactly the MP7 works, because it's significantly more complex than FN's P90." Wait. WAIT. You're telling me, that the over-sized automatic pistol is *more complex* than the future-alien-space-gun with sideways facing ammunition, (in the magazine,) that's a bullpup top loader with a 90º helical feed ramp? Freakin' Germans, man...
For all of its weirdness, the P90 actually has very few moving parts. This thing has a vast number of moving parts which aren't even expected in its genre of firearm.
@@TheFirstCurse1 I mean, I know this, but for years I thought the off-axis cartridges were individually rotated into alignment with the bolt like the how it works on the G11. Turns out this kind of ridiculous over engineering is a largely German phenomenon. (Then again, the G11 is in some ways built like freaking revolver autocannon, and much of the complexity is because the action recoils along with the barrel, separate from the housing, allowing a three-round burst to be fired in its entirety, at something ridiculous like 2400 rpm, before any of the felt recoil affects the user. Given that no one adopted the G11, and its closest functional relative in the AN-94 hasn't seen much use either, it's doubtful if this level of complexity has much merit in the deployment of individual small arms.)
@@RamadaArtist well, the trouble with the G11 and the AN 94 burst features, is unless the shooter is actually a competent to excellent marksman, the "benefit" is negligible, and if they are a quality marksman, you've only upped the rate of fire, and ammo cost, with no gain on lethality, as shooting someone in a lethal pinhole twice or thrice won't make them any more dead, and full auto works better for covering fire. It's a similar problem with flechette rounds, any discernible benefit is only really going to work for someone who doesn't need the advantage, making it a waste of resources
The Norwegian military is one of the largest users of the MP7 as far as I know. They signed a contract for a delivery of 6500 MP7s back in 2007 and are aiming for it to replace all MP5s in service. Unless something has changed that I'm unaware of.
Germany has also started buying them. For now as another option for frontline soldiers like paratrooperse; only secondary role for now is that tank crews will get it.
@@termitreter6545 Some 5-6000 of them as of a couple of years ago, as far as I know. They also (used to?) rent some out to Berlin police for arming SEK (our take on SWAT teams) officers and the like, until the Berlin Police got the ones they ordered from H&K, IIRC.
@@tilmanahr Several LKA and BKA special units also got them. Last time I was in Cologne some high ranking politician was there and he was protected by (very obvious) LKA bodyguards with MP7s, although they tried to conceal them, but I got a few glimpses of them.
This is indeed correct. Most of the MP5 is swapped out with the MP7 in the Norwegian military, as far as I know the only one still using the MP5 is the Norwegian home guard. It's an awesome weapon which serves it's purpose very well. And as some other's have mentioned the German army uses them for troops who may need a compact gun, the Norwegian military uses them for that purpose as well, for instans to truck drivers and medics and so on. Greetings from a Norwegian who have served in the Norwegian Army.
@@dbmail545 That’s pretty funny. It seems like those cartridges are better suited to a full sized pistol that’s capable of armor penetration and large capacity without a lot of recoil.
They can make a pipe into an amazing gun in the same way a great chef could make a stone into an amazing soup, by adding so much extra items and complexity that it is no longer recognizable as its original form. Not to say H&K makes bad weapons by any means.
I had an MP7 for almost 6 years. For anyone in a support role its great. If I had one issue with it its that its too small and weighs too little, so as a medic you lose control of it if it is in a sling. A holster would have been nice.
The simplest the ever get was the UMP but the bolt still has to be designed like a dead blow hammer. So the bolt still has to be slightly more complex than a simple block of steel
American living in Germany here. I saw the local police carrying the A1 (or the previous) outside the local courthouse. I knew what it was, but couldn't remember the name. Glad I found this video.
A friend of mine carried an MP7 during his compulsory military service with the Norwegian Defence. He personally really liked it, and how compact it is.
It's ballistics work when the target wears thick layers for winter in, say, mountains. It's size is perfect for particularly tight confines such as tunnels or very narrow vertical crevasses. Even suppressed, it's almost whisper quiet and very controllable; a big plus for when your target speaks Chechen and is wearing body armor.
@@BeingFireRetardant Complete and total conjecture; now if you'll excuse me, it's been a long, arduous, day of LARPing in the basement AO and the S-2 just provided critical intel that my tendies are done ; )
Hello Ian, I must object: in the German Bundeswehr the MP7A1 and MP7A2 (in its "coloured" outfit in RAL8000 "Green-Brown" what is more greenish than coyote, being the "old Afrikakorps" colour) is widely used in its "original" role as a back-up weapon for helicopter-crews, tankers, drivers, MP, and as a sidearm for NCOs and officers of the armoured-infantry and other infantry-types of the German army. It replaced the MP2 (Uzi) and MP5 and is widely in use with the "standard" troops. It is, as you mentioned, also in use with specialised forces and special forces of the army, airforce and navy...
Ian skirts around explaning the etymology of 'coyote' as a military colour. Which of course is because of the film Coyote Ugly, which is iconic to the Special Forces community in the way that Zulu is to the regular Army.
Most people in the regular army have never seen Zulu. The guys in my unit only heard of it is because of me. The guys who watched it loved it though. We were combat engineers if that matters lol
The Norwegian Army also adopted the MP7 as a direct replacement for the MP5 for most rear echelon troops and vehicle crews. However some units has now reverted back to the 416 due to logistics and training concerns.
Norwegian rear echelon troops use this weapon for its intended purpose. Id like to add that its an awesome little gun, superlightweight, can fit easily in a leg holster etc.
Norway DO use the MP7 for rear troops, i have a buddy who is a army engineer. His primary weapon is an MP-7, and its perfect for checkpoint control, and rear guard which is what he does
Other engineers: oh an off the shelf accepted solution HK: that just won't do. Hanz back to the drawing board and don't come back until you have bloody stumps for hands or an elegantly over engineered solution
RAL 8000 is a Pantone color number.. its not just exclusive to Heckler & Koch. Although in the firearms world they are the defacto company who offers it as a firearms finish colorway from the factory.
@@reignick1133 ...it is not a Pantone color, it is as you mentioned, a RAL-color. RAL is "Reichs-Ausschuss für Lieferbedingungen" (Reichs-committee for delivery conditions) founded in 1925 and is an official institute in Germany doing many things, e.g. defining the "offical German color-scheme". RAL8000 grünbraun (green-brown) is different from coyote, it is more greenish and was first used as uniform color for the Arfrika-Korp in WW2. Flat-dark-earth is an US knock-off, but not identical.
The game Ghost Recon Future Soldier actually predicted the A2 model in 2012 (two years before the A2's intro). The weapon is modeled with a lower rail for attachments instead of the folding fore-grip seen on the A1.
Absolutely, and the weight reduction as a result isn't small at all a p90 is a third heavier at 6.8lbs and the uzi it replaced 2/3s heavier at 7.7lbs. Coming in at 4.4lbs easily justifies the increased complexity of a delayed action.
@@watariovids1645 The newer production models are listed at 6.8 lbs without rails and 7.1lbs with on fn herstal's site. The civilian sa version we weighed was just about 8lbs but had that long barrel for compliance. The picatinny rails are on that handle looking portion so you can use your own optics which is a nice upgrade but the primary advantage of the p90 is compactness not weight. Pretty much all of the low drag ar race rigs we see on the range will be lighter and even some of the ar308s. The tiny round in a heavy sled makes for a really low recoil shooting experience but you the ergos means a practiced rifleman can get better results out of their ar if they have the room to use it imho.
@@Jackhammer2k8 Correct. While it makes sense in the context of British Police rifles/carbines, it does seem like an odd choice with the limited ballistics of the 4.6mm. I've also noticed they only tend to issue the flush 20-round mags.
@@ApurtureSci Low recoil, accurate, will go through any body armour a ne'er-do-well is likely to get hold of, probably pretty good at going through car windscreens etc. Also very small and unobtrusive so easy to carry discreetly. I got glared at walking past Downing Street a few years ago by the gate guard, who had one.
@@alun7006 I agree with all of that and it's certainly a fine weapon for an officer to carry around all day, better than a pistol for sure. That said, I do wonder how well the 4.6mm will stop an attacker, firing single shots and in the conservative manner our police tend to shoot. I don't buy into the whole stopping power thing, I don't think you need to be putting out 3000ft/lbs to get the job done, but it'd be interesting to see how effective a 4.6mm would be on a potentially drugged-up, infinitely-motivated marauding attacker.
@@ApurtureSci I would say it's "controlled" rather than "conservative" (though Jean Charles de Menezes would doubtless disagree) - and the low recoil would make follow-ups very quick and easy. I would also be very surprised if "Mozambique" is not the standard course of action now, after the fiasco with the London Bridge attack in 2019.
I'm equiped with the MP7 as a PDW in addition to my MG3 machinegun in the Norwegian Home Guard. The MG3 weighs 11-12kgs, so having a light personal weapon is a blessing. We had HK416 before and it was a hassle. In my service in the Norwegian Army, I was a gunner on the CV9030N IFV, and the crew was mounted with the HK416. One of the gunners in my unit had his 416 broken in half after it slid between the turret and hull/vehicle, so they went on to equip vehicle crews with MP7s as well.
To me the P90 makes no sense, because it is no more compact than small, short barreled M4/AR variants, or a AK or a G36 with the stock folded in. My point being that the way HK went was clearly the better one, no matter how "cool" the P90 might be.
@@TrangleC I see where you are coming from, but, in the p90's defense, it does have a 50rd (pain in the ass reload) magazine and fewer snag points than a short AR et al. What I would like to see is a comparison of the ballistics of 5.7/4.6 against 5.56 out of a short barrel if anyone knows a good video like that.
@@TrangleC As a bullpup, the P90 has a 10.4” barrel and OAL of under 20”. It will be more compact than a conventional design with an equivalent length barrel. As for the MP7 being better, the NATO trials said different xD
@@thesuit4820 As far as I know, there are 40 round magazines for the MP7 and even if not, I'd rather have a weapon with easy and quick to replace 20 round magazines than one with a 50 round magazine that takes me a minute to replace. I don't know specifics, but since the P90 has a longer barrel, I assume it must have better ballistics. That is of secondary concern, as I will address in my following reply to delphium, though.
That stuff is like a tungsten sabot in 9mm format? Might be a bit overkill, tbh. The 4.6/5.7 is just there for beating soft body armor; sounds like the CBJ can defeat light plate (altho all the plate actually used is typically much stronger).
In germany the MP7 is actually beeing used by medics, frontline doctors, recovery personal, crew of MBTs, motorcycle massangers and some leader positions that are more focus on their radio than shooting.
Ian: “I don’t think anybody has adopted the MP7 for what it was actually designed for. Which was…” Me: “Shooting Russian paratroopers in your home barracks, in a different continent to the actual front line when you’re just the bloody ammo tech or chef!”
@@Keifsanderson lol I’d forgotten the term REMF 😂. I can’t say shit though I’ve never been in the forces. I let myself be dissuaded by my girlfriend at the time like a fucking idiot!
I hate the charging handle. I hated it on the M-4. It's awkward, even sitting at the table, and showing the viewers at home, it didn't work smoothly, it was awkward. Yes, because of the angle, but this is designed for GelandeWagen drivers. Unimog Drivers, charging it behind the wheel of a military truck, to go out, and return fire when their convoy was ambushed by Russians. Among other things, I've never driven a Unimog, and I've never used an MP7 in combat. But I did carry an M4 (And a toolbox) in the passenger seat of a Panhard VBL when we got stopped, and ambushed in Sarajevo. That charging handle blows goats if you happen to be in a confined space (Like behind the wheel of a military vehicle) wearing armor, when you need to charge it.
Always like it when craftsmanship becomes businesslike cool beauty. Love these guns. Thanks for another informative and very intresting video! Greets from the Netherlands, T.
So, watching your videos about the P90 and Mp7 has told me this: The P90 is a quirky girl, strange at first sight but more and more comfortable the more you are with her, she still operates like no other but you kinda get accustomed to her crazyness over time. It's like she does the whole homey thing, just in a different way. She's handy, catches everyones attention, laughs in a cute way and holds her own but doesnt bite when angry, just scowls. She just wants your attention and she's fine with everything else. The Mp7 on the other hand is younger and doesnt like talking all that much, but when she does she's spitting truth and teaching people. Everyone, no matter how well armored with ignorance, listen to her and take heed. She comes from a seemingly strict family, with a long pedigree of success which makes her seem distant but she's always right by your side when you need her most. Over time you get so used to her being there that one day, she looks you in the eyes and asks: "Well, what's it going to be?" To which the only reasonable answer is - "Yes!"
At 11:35 This reminds me of a similar system as the Beretta 1301 Tactical. Reason I bring this up is I believe HK worked with Benelli to make the M4 which is very similar to the 1301.
From villain to hero, Germany's character development is insane. Mp5 is basically grandchild of Mp40, AK47 is basically just the nephew of STG 44, its amazing to see how they went from that, to G3, Mp5 and all other guns associated with good guys in movies and good guys in general.
I have a feeling most militaries feel these weapons are to expensive to hand out to rear echelon troops that are very unlikely to end up in a combat situation. Instead they get to do with old existing SMG's or carbine versions of the current standard weapons platforms. The later isn't all bad, but even in a shortened carbine format these tends to have a lot of snag points making them hard to handle in a lot of situations. I was a driver and a lot of the time was spent rigging or taking down camouflage netting or working under it. Anything that could snag would snag unless you were very careful. I carried a SMG and I hated it. Sure it was handy in size, but it was about as snag free as a hedge hog in a hamper of knitting yarn. The MP7 seems like it would be a lot better, but the P90 looks even less likely to snag. But for the military it would come down to what was the cheapest solution.
Norway have armed their support/second hand gun for mg etc with this one. so it is being used for support. Don't get me wrong, it is also being used by SOC, but this one is even found in the home guard for the rear troops.
I'd say that the PDW for rear echelon (can't believe I actually spelled that right first try!) troops, while a good idea, the fundamentals of that idea will always be a secondary concern for the global militaries until there is a perceived need. For the M-1 Carbine, that was the fear of rapid and unexpected German breakthroughs like France and the Low Countries in 1940 (and of course the Battle of the Bulge), and for the MP-7 and the FN P90 that was the fear of Soviet Spetznaz infiltrators during the 80s. Once that moment passes the need is swiftly forgotten and the weapons that come from that forgotten need get repurposed as security and special forces weapons. Personally I think the rear echelon PDWs, while a good idea on paper, is a bit of a trap. That doesn't good guns don't come from these calls for PDWs, obviously the MP-7 and the P90 are excellent firearms, but it's one of those weird situations where it's kind of not a waste of resources, but kind of sort of is. You could easily make an argument for both.
PDW's used by protective details are just more readily visible. Though the MP 7 has not been purchased for nearly any large frontline army units, it has started to reach some of it's intended users in specialty and support roles, in larger numbers than any "protective detail".
The French also use the MP7 for some special operations. In 2013 the French attempted to rescue a captured DGSE operative in Somalia. Their troops assaulted the compound armed with suppressed MP7s but the operation went awry and after a firefight the French withdrew and the spy was either killed during the operation or executed later. A French assaulter also died in the operation. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulo_Marer_hostage_rescue_attempt
When I was really young, I remember getting a plastic toy version on an MP 7. It had the folding front grip and was fun. First gun I learned the name of because of it
I've always admired this gun because I just really like the look of it. And while I get that it was developed for a very specific purpose, I feel that HK missed an opportunity when they didn't make a less specialized version that used a more common round (I would've voted for either .45ACP or 10mm) and sold it on the civilian market. This would've been popular with private security if that was the case.
When we say "polymer" when talking about firearms, are we just basically saying, "high end plastic"? Like some sort of glass fibre reinforced plastic material?
@@fjjwfp7819 This is true, but I also want to be a bit pedantic and say that this only applies generally when speaking about firearms. Polymers are a huge class of materials that do not only include plastics; wood is a good example ( _technically_ , wooden features on an ak make it a “polymer” firearm, which you can say to annoy fellows at the range). I’m assuming firearm manufacturers say polymer instead of plastic for marketing purposes. No salesmen wants their fancy expensive rifle to sound like it’s make out of tupperware.
Thank you from my heart. Been waiting for a video about mp7 from you. That’s my favorite gun in the gun universe. ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
When I was at a Land War Expo in Germany back in 2006, I talked with the German soldiers about it and they said it as a pistol that had a built-in stock so you could shoot it at great distances. I want to say they claimed you could hit targets at 200-300 meters, which I thought was very impressive (if not unbelievable). Handling it made me think that this was something that The Terminator would use. It is a very clever firearm.
I haven't looked online for any information, but I presume it's serial numbers, and I remember a reason for hiding serial numbers were to hide how many guns were manufactured. Again, this is just presumption so definitely don't take my word for it.
Apart from SOF and MP the MP7 is also being used as a direct replacement for the MP2 (UZI), in the role of compact weapons for the drivers and commanders of armored vehicles (in germany).
Those small rounds are not just AP, they're also door- and wallpiercing, which, i guess, makes this weapon interesting for SpecOps in tight urban areas. And don't underestimate the manstop power: once it hits a soft target, the projectile tends to flip over inside the wound channel, transfering more energy to the body.
Thanks for this video, Ian. Im bitten by the MP7 bug. To me, the weapon layout and overall size makes it very useful for home defense, small game hunting, and for use around a homestead where one may need to dispatch vermin and predators under 100 pounds going after livestock. Many uses in one firearm. H&K should really import even a semi-automatic version of the MP7A2.
The MP7 and P90 entered a market where armed forces were already fazing out their SMGs in favour of carbines and bullpups which used the same cartridges as their rifles, so they could just issue everyone with those. Special forces and police had the actual demand for a very compact yet powerful enough weapon, so they're the ones who bought it.
Only seen them in the UK in the hands of Ministry of Defence Police ('mod-plods'), though apparently the Met Police have some too. I guess it's a more configurable MP5 in such hands, or for MOD Police there's a higher chance of encountering someone in body armour.
Weird detail, but: Such a rich satisfying chunk sound when the selector lever is operated 😎It always sounds exactly the same, and it seems to reverberate throughout the whole room.
HK Engineering is like that kid who decides to do parkour moves all over the neighborhood when the destination is just literally one straight road. Unnecessarily complicated. Nothing wrong nor is it bad. Just unnecessarily complicated.
The gas operated rotating bolt will yield a softer shooting platform. In the 9mm world and MPX is substantially softer shooting than either a direct blowback PCC or an MP5. It's not that the recoil itself is harsh, it's the smoothness. It does less to upset your aim.
