Due to a dispute with my internet provider this video was almost completely made in a coffee shop. Gameplay content will be back soon. (Hot spotting with my phone has not been strong enough to record)
Actually the most awkward one was thien Nguyen calling a judge over in this same scenario, except that time the judge ruled in favor of the opponent missing their beginning of combat trigger even though it was remembered by that opponent. It's known as the combat shortcut, and it created a fundamental change in the magic rules because of it. Pretty scummy.
I hate sore losers. I had a game in commander recently where my opponent declared his blockers, marks the damage immediately, and I cast Hunters Insight on a creature he didn't block before damage. But he argued that I couldn't do that because damage had already happened. I said "no I'm casting the Insight right before damage." He said, "Well, I already marked the damage, so it's too late. You have to wait til next turn." I said thats not how that works but he complained and complained until i said fuck it i wont draw 3 freaking cards, dude. Its not that deep. It wasn't even for money. I can't stand scummy players. Even when it's for a lot of money.
That’s so BS. As the active player, you have direct control over the phase changes of a turn. Your opponent has no say in it until priority is passed to them. You clearly had an intention of casting before combat damage and your opponent in their selfishness refused to abide by the rules and skipped ahead of you. Even in a casual sense while “marking damage” is usually done with blocking itself to speed up gametime, you HAVE to let players interact with steps. Something I learned the hard way playing modern with storm while being very anxious playing. Doesn’t help that people hate playing against storm due to time sinking, but you have to learn to know when to slow down and when your opponent grants you the go-ahead to speed up.
Ah, the old school douchebaggery method of "I'll try to speed past steps and phases regardless of what you want". Of course, it doesn't fly under actual rules, but it doesn't stop them from trying.
So I have a question and I believe I am in the right. In a recent match I was playing commander against someone and I happened to have Etali, Primal hunger on the field as well as about 4 eldrazi. Enough to swing for lethal and none with summoning sickness. Beginning of combat I declare attackers and swing with everything. I tell my opponent (Simic) To exile the top card of his library so i might be able to cast it. Instead he plays an instant which lets him draw two and discard one. He top decks a Fog and plays it. Is this legal? Wouldn’t Fog be exiled?
@xXTPXxOfficial your opponent was correct at the time. When you attack, your Etali trigger goes on the stack. At that time, priority is passed, and your opponent has the chance to respond. Your opponent casts an instant, which resolves first. Holding priority before the Etali trigger resolves, he puts a Fog on the stack. Then, if there are no more responses, your Etali trigger resolves.
Isn't the trigger mandatory? The pause was a split second, and even judges would come in to say the trigger anyhow. Stupid Judge call to try to shark opponent when he himself made the mistake. Should've accepted it.
IIRC the ruling should be either he gets the token or if they decide he doesn't, it should be a game loss. If they decide he missed a mandatory trigger and it was clearly after his opponent drew, I'm pretty sure that's an unrecoverable game state because of the draw. If you make an error that results in an unrecoverable game state it's normally a game loss. Any half decent judge would just give you the token. The effect on the game is pretty much nil and you'd rather that than hand out a game loss for a saying "go" as you're reaching for the token.
There's no such thing as "mandatory" when it comes to missed triggers. If you miss a beneficial trigger that is mandatory, your opponent gets the choice of whether or not it goes on the stack at the point the judge was called.
I had an experience with judge calling at a Grand Prix final round of day 1. I was X-2 and extremely excited/nervous as it my first big event. Opponent seemed super cool and nice before the round started. I was on abzan coco and cast a catacomb sifter and pass to my opponent, as soon as I say “pass” I reach for my deck box to get a token and my opponent draws his card for turn and stops me saying it’s too late. I say it’s a mandatory effect and was just trying to speed up the match. He immediately calls a judge and says I missed it then the judge asks for my side and asks my opponent “do you want him to have the token?” he said “no” and the judge replied “then he doesn’t have the token” I asked for an appeal and as I waited I hear them talking like buddies. Judge A explains to judge B but made it seem like I had cast my card, waited until some time into my opponents main phase and only said anything when my opponent motioned he was going to play a card. I lost that game two turns later(that mana would’ve been enough for a collected company that would’ve landed a reflector mage I couldn’t cast and won be the game) I then smashed him game 2 and we end up going to time. Turns get announced and he asks me to concede the match, stating that his deck was better suited for the field and an X-2-1 record would server both of us no use in day 2. I just said, “ with that logic why don’t you concede then? I’m in a winning position “ he declined so I grabbed the match slip and wrote in the draw and handed it to him to sign. Heard him mutter some words as I walked away with the slip and turned it in. I then proceeded to lose the opening rounds of 2 day 😂 in hindsight I should’ve tried appealing further
Yeah,that was bs. I'd of made a stink out of it. That's like stating "fetching X, pass the turn", but them saying "NO YOU DECLINE TO SEARCH SEE I STARTED MY TURN BEFORE THE CARD HIT THE TABLE", so cringe.
@@Kakerate2 The difference is in your example you are saying "fetching" to your opponent, and @masterofpibness didn't say "trigger". It sucks however, it is correct since his opponent has drawn his card and is now in their main phase. The appeal could have been that you were taking action to get your token immediately, but the safest thing to do is always say "trigger" before passing.
Win and in for day 2 at a GP. It's turn 3 and my opponent taps out for a Thing in the Ice and doesn't play a 3rd land. They pass the turn. I untap, draw, play a land, attack, and cast 2 creatures post combat. In my end step my opponent calls a judge and says they forgot to play their land for turn and despite everything that's happened the judge allows them to flash into play a scalding tarn. I appealed to the head judge but they also allowed it. I only played out my creatures because I strongly believed they wouldn't be able to flip thing the next turn. I could've played my turn differently or cast a removal spell. Instead they used tarn on my end step to cast a spell then untapped and ended up having just enough mana to flip it. I still won the match but cmon.
My thoughts exactly. There was maybe 2 seconds in between wyatt declaring the trigger for glorybringer and then reaching for a monkey token. I get that theres several thousand on the line but this just looks so scummy to try to "win" like that
As a judge myself, I see nothing wrong with asking or checking something like this if you're unsure. Especially after a long day of mtg and being placed in a high stress situation, I don't expect players to be fully cognisant of IPG nuances. Players should look for their outs and that can involve confirming something with a judge. This would never be ruled in his favour, but there is zero issue and nothing is lost by checking.
Eh, I wouldn't call it scummy at all. He called the judge, raised a legitimate rules issue, got a ruling and abided by it with no complaint despite the ruling costing him more money than many people make in a year. That is A+ conduct in my book. If there's any doubt at all, call a judge and let them sort it out. _Never_ decide not to call a judge based on social pressure. If he legitimately missed the trigger, then the rules say he loses. Hindsight is 20/20, so we can easily see that the trigger was processed in a reasonable fashion. But in the moment? Yeah, totally reasonable for there to be doubts. Always call the judge. Always.
I think this one is definitely a good choice, but I would have to give it to the Patrick Chapin one at PT Dragons of Tarkir. You should do a video on that one!
Nah, the most akward judge interaction on cam was the judge who didn't know how to count blue mana symbols on lands from a scapeshift player in a modern ProTour (maybe GP). It was EMBARRASSING! If you want, i can try and find it and post a timestamp. It's still on youtube.
I'm not a judge but working at a gamestore and having to run drafts made me the defacto judge for the event, which led to some interesting interactions. One such interaction was being called over by somebody to explain how double strike worked to a guy that just dropped 2k on basically all of the modern horizons product we had in stock, which just... Baffled me...
when there is like 20k on the line and the game allows players to "forget" triggers under certain conditions (not going into the details here), every small advange counts. so i kinda understand the call. it was certainly not gentlemen like, but i woudnt call it scummy.
Just blanket couldn't target them? If the spell or ability specifically had a target of "untapped creature" it'd make sense, but how could anyone become a judge and think you just straight up couldn't target tapped creatures?
After time was called I was turn 5, went to shake my opponents hand as it was only game 2 and i had won game 1 but before i could the judge tells me to resolve the kataki triggers that would be on my upkeep and finish the rest of the game actions of the turn or i would get a game loss and it would end the match as a draw very confused i resolved the kataki triggers and said end my turn the judge then said good dont do that again
I used to be an L2 and the worst judge call I ever received was at an LGS during a Modern PTQ. I can't remember the decks exactly, but I remember the interaction. Player A was at 3 life and had an Ornithopter with another creature. Player B cast Smash to Smithereens and told A that they won. B just looked down and used a sack outlet to kill the Ornithopter in response and said the spell fizzled. A was confused and called me over. After explaining, A screamed in my face, grabbed their stuff, yelled at the owner, and left. They claimed for months that I was "paid off" and "made the wrong call".
I think you swapped A and B in that story at some point but I get the jist of it. Player A just had to sac the ornithopter to make the target of smash to smithereens illegal.
That was Gincalo just trying to shark the win away from Wyatt. Kari Zev is a mandatory trigger, not a may ability. You cannot miss the trigger because there is still time to resolve it before he passes priority to Goncalo. On top of the fact that there were multiple triggers that happened on declaration of attack. I hate scumbags like that. I bet you that Goncalo got to the top table doing similar shit to his other opponents when he was about to lose those matches. Unsportsmanlike behaviour is what that shit is.
Just a note that Gonçalo should be pronounced like gon-sah-lo, not gon-tha-lo, because that ç makes an s sound, even in Spanish (although I believe this guy is Portuguese).
There was a local tournament that was for qualifier points or something to a grand prix, so there was official judges and stuff there. I was in round like 3. Already 1-1, with a self brew that you wouldn't exactly say was meta, or even really good, where I played the red/blue God with a bunch of weird artifacts and other things. Anyways, we got one of the random deck list checks at the start of the round. I was playing against a regular at the shop, and we both were pretty decent at magic and he could only laugh at the jank I was brining to such a high level tournament. During the deck checking, the judges perceived that I had "marked cards", and could pull a red/blue dual land out basically at will. I perceived them as magicians! As this was not my primary deck, I just threw these in some very second-hand sleeves as I didn't care enough to buy new sleeves. Turns out they were too old and warped and I guess this was looked at as a marked card/cheating situation, even if unintentional. It was an automatic 1 game loss while I resleeved the deck, and both he and I really couldn't believe what was going on. I swiftly lost that match, dropped from the tournament, and pretty much stopped playing magic since then. This was around the time devotion was released. TLDR: my cheap-skate nature was mistaken for "marked" cards, when everyone else in the room was like "wtf?" and pretty well put me off MTG since.
Well it was not mistaked for marked cards, IT WAS marked cards. Judge isn't in your head to know if it's made on purpose or know. If you're going onto competitive events, sleeve up nicely. You know the rules.
@@kevinbrun9796 judges are wizards. I handed the deck off to like 5 other people and they couldn't tell the difference on anything, myself included even knowing what I was looking for. Anyways, this was the first official tournament thing held in the area ever. It had been years of random FNMs and stuff before that. The whole situation just felt petty to everyone.
@@zanon3362 Deck checks give the harshest punishments for simple stupid situations. It's weird that during a game you can break the rules and when there is no indication of cheating it results into a warning, but making a mistake like writing the split of fetch lands in your decklist is a automatic game loss.
I went to a GP in Oklahoma City when I was maybe 11-12. It was win and in to day 2 and my opponent called a judge over saying I had marked my deck by having some cards be upside down, which you could tell from the little gap in the sleeves if you were looking side on. I was bad at shuffling, and so I typically just smashed my cards together at random not thinking anything of it. I couldn’t believe I was going to lose over that. Thankfully the judge took a look at my deck and saw that the orientation was completely random. There would be absolutely no way of predicting which cards were where by looking at the sleeves. Got off with a warning.
@@jacksonletts3724 i think with mine there was 2 cards out of the 60. 1 was a shock land, and the other i think was a gate. I was same as you probably with messing up the sleeves over time, just a bad coincidence that they were both blue/red sources!
Well we all agree that Darby wins, and Gonçalo is a prick trying to steal the win with that judge call, but... The judge's explanation is wrong. They are not triggers that go "at the beginning of combat", they trigger during the attack phase
Technically in its in the "Declare Attackers Step." The attack phase is multiple steps and if they had gone to the declare blockers step, I would say that he missed the trigger but they had not declared blockers yet. He put the trigger on the stack before moving to blockers.
I’ve got a wild judge interaction that happened to me. It was somewhere around Dominaria, we were playing a standard event at a large venue, around 300 players. I don’t exactly remember what deck I was playing, but it was some form of black deck. I was going against UW control. We were on game 3. I cast Lost Legacy, with intention of naming Teferi, Hero of Dominaria. My opponent asked me what I was naming and I asked if the spell resolved. My opponent said “I haven’t decided yet, it depends on what you name.” I called for a judge, and the judge reviewed the card and I explained the situation. The judge said that I have to name the card before resolution, which is just not correct, and the judge left. I grit my teeth and I decided to be petty about it (which in hindsight, I should not have done and was very poor sportsmanship. I would not do this if it happened today). I named Dovin Baan and my opponent allowed the spell to resolve, then after spell resolution I said “Now that the spell is resolved, I name Teferi, Hero of Dominaria.” My opponent called for a judge, and a different judge came over. Opponent explained the situation and the head judge was called. Ultimately, I was issued a warning for my conduct (fair, present day me understands) and the spell was allowed to resolve with me having named Teferi. My opponent was bitter because he had both of them in hand and after he drew his cards he conceded the match.
That works because naming is different than choosing targets? My understanding is that before casting a spell and paying its cost you must choose the targets and modes, but it sounds like naming, because it is not a target, is performed on resolution?
@@lukejennings7751 Indeed, naming is different than targeting. Anything that targets is declared upon cast, before resolution. Lost Legacy targets a player, which in my instance was my opponent. However, since naming does not require a valid target, it happens upon spell resolution. This is somewhat similar to how a lot of clones creatures work. If I cast Clone, I do not have to declare what I going to choose for Clone to enter the battlefield as, because Clone does not target. Once Clone resolves, I choose a creature in play for Clone to enter as a copy of.
Ironically, the second scenario wouldn't work under tournament rules. If you state a choice for a spell or ability when adding it to the stack, and your opponent doesn't respond, you're bound to that choice. If they do respond in any way you're free to make whatever choice you'd like, regardless of what you said beforehand. Magic Tournament Rules 4.2: "If a player casts a spell or activates an ability and announces choices for it that are not normally made until resolution, the player must adhere to those choices unless an opponent responds to that spell or ability. If an opponent inquires about choices made during resolution, that player is assumed to be passing priority and allowing that spell or ability to resolve." Though of course, your opponent and the judge were wrong in the first case. Even more ironic, by enquiring about your choice it would be assumed that they were allowing it to resolve, so if you had of told them in theory it would've been too late for them to respond - but with the incompetence of the judge that was called, I'm doubtful that it would've worked out like that.
MTR 4.2: If a player casts a spell or activates an ability and announces choices for it that are not normally made until resolution, the player must adhere to those choices unless an opponent responds to that spell or ability. If an opponent inquires about choices made during resolution, that player is assumed to be passing priority and allowing that spell or ability to resolve.
@@jaxsonbateman Yeah, it was such a strange interaction all around. These rules and interactions can very greatly impact how the game is played and can cause some strange rules lawyering moments.
My funniest interaction was when i was playing Abzan Company (Combo) against a scapeshift player many years ago. I was 2 minutes late due to a phonecall, when i got there my opponent was understanding at first. That was until I started to combo off, i had cast Chord of Calling and was looking through my deck, he then decided to call the judge over and "quietly" request that I received a game loss due to being late to the table. The judge looked at him, then me, then at the boardstate (we were at turn 4, so its not like it was an empty board). Then proceded to give both of us warnings, me for the lateness, and my opponent for bad sportsmanship. He was informed that calling for a judge just as he was about to lose instead of at the start of the match was considered unsporting and if he did it again he would likely be disqualified. I won the game, and then ended up wrecking him in game 2 with spike feeder + archangel of thune.
This is why i like MTGO. No rules bs, no shuffling, no cheating. Its still fun to play paper at FNM or with friends, but at a competitive level ive seen too much fuckery. Mana weaving, purposefully forgetting detrimental figures, skipping phases, cards appearing in peoples hands, storm players fudging their mana, the list goes on.
Semi finals of a GP Houston legacy event, after a long match vs a bunch of sphere of resistances I finally managed to S&T an omniscience and hardcast an emrakul, opponent tried to call the judge stating that I did not announce the timewalk trigger on emrakul, but its not a may ability which the judge confirmed and I took my next turn and won the game/match.
It's fairly well known that a lot of magic legends were notorious rules lawyers as often even the smallest infraction at comp can cause a lot of benefit. On the other hand should you not catch it and it leads to a gamestate that would need a judge call, you (the player who witnessed it but chose not to spoke up) is also on the hook. My advice? If you're going to be a paper grinder. Get up on the format you're playing and scrutinize every mistake your opponent plays. Slipping up costs dearly at comp if you keep making the same mistakes whether misplays or game rules violations.
I have the craziet judge story that just recently happened to me. I was playing at a facetoface tour qualifier tournament with the format being modern round 7 i was up 5-2 playing living end going againt jeskai breach. The deck i was using was borrowed and the deck list i submitted was missing a card. After winning game 1 we were both deck checked and my mistake was caught and i was given a game loss making is 1-1. The judge said that we can play the deck as is and that we dont have to re-sideboard. We both opted to do that and in the middle of game 3 i cast my cascade spell only to find out the judge that did my deck check TOOK OUT all my living ends as well as some other cards from my main deck and places it with my sideboard cards. The same judges were called over and all hell broke loose. We had one of them start to panic as they relised they fucked up and proceesed to have a 30min conversation with the other judges and head judge. In the end since there was no official rule to fix this situation the made up there own rule and allowed me to put back my living ends and any other sideboard cards I wanted then resumed with the cascade trigger back in the stack. Whats funny is my opponent then topped decked what he thought was the win, tried to short cut it. I made him play it out and it turns out he was one artifact short of casting emry for 1 blue. He then tanked for like 5mins then conceded. I proceeded to make top8 and then subsequently came in 2nd losing to rakdos scam.
Not a judge calling but when i was playing dominaria united standard at my locals, i played a bunxh of obscura interceptor, who on ETB, connived and bounced a spell casted this way. For the majority of that standard i was going 4-0 at that locals thinking bouncing didnt counter instants and sorceries. I always only flashed in the Interceptor thinking it could only work on permanent spells
Competitive magic actually does come down to rules lawyering think about it. A magic the gathering deck should only have a 50% chance of winning any game...the only skill that you can really have is knowing when exactly to do your triggers and how cards interact...if someone misses their trigger you should try and benefit COMPETITIVELY...
finally somone who gets it. in a field of the best of the best, there are just few factors the (pro) player can influence during the game. so you have to take every little advange you can get. and to be fair, how missing triggers are handeld changed over the years more than once. There is 20 k on the line... i would alsco call the judge just to be on the save side and my opponent infact did or did not made a mistake
Had something similar happen at an LRE, top prize was a free prerelease for fate reforged. Got to the finals and I didn't declare my attack trigger that gave my creatures first strike and deathtouch, so I lost. After the tourney and getting second it didn't sit well with me that that is how I lost, so I called and asked the store owner about it. This is how I learned to not take your opponents word for anything and call a judge. Got my revenge during the aether revolt prerelease when I stole his dragon and killed him with it lol.
Glorybringer's exert ability needs a target to be chosen as a part of it being put on the stack, and it happens "as it attacks" (much to my dismay for Isshin), so there was no way that the ragavan token from kari zev would have been lost since all the triggers were being placed on the stack. Nothing had resolved yet. The salty attempt to rules grime was just that, salt.
What's more enraging is the multiple outs Gonçalo has. I don't see the mono red deck having much interaction... so why wouldn't swing with the team with your opponent on 4 life? He could crew, Sac the creature that crewed and now they have 2 blockers and you have 5 attackers with a minimum of 5 damage coming their way even with their removal... No wonder he called a judge, bet he was really mad about that.
When I was first getting into magic a guy called a judge on me at a Sealed SOI PPTQ because I double-sleeved my Arlinn Kord I pulled but not the rest of my deck. I knew better and he had every right to make the call, but if he was going to, I was going to make him pay for it. Made him sit there and watch me double sleeve the rest of my deck instead of just unsleeving Arlinn.
I'm in top 8 of an event, eventually making an attack that, depending on how my opponent blocks, decides win or lose. My opponent makes their blocks incorrectly and I'm able to deal them what I believe is lethal. I tell them it's lethal and they proceed to say it's not lethal. I explain how the creature has an activated ability that I activated, that boost their attack/defense equal to the number of elementals in play, creeping trailblazer, making the total attack 18. They then say but I gained a life earlier. I look at my notes and say that was in the previous game and they say no it was this game. I couldn't remember, i was just going by the pad, so I decide to chalk it up to not keeping up with life and say, "then good luck in top 4." I then proceed to scoop up my cards and say, "I need to do better at writing down life since I had you at 18." They then say, "thats what I had myself at." So I go, then you are dead. They argue, well you conceded. I'm now baffled and say I only conceded because you said you weren't at 18 and had gained a life. So I call the judge over. Mind you we're in the top 8 of a decent sized tournament so there are several spectators who witnessed this whole exchange. The judge comes over I explain what happened and they go, since I can't verify the board state and since you conceded, your opponent gets the game. So I ended up missing top 4. The biggest thing I just couldn't understand was how the judge asked none of the many spectators that watched the entire exchange.
@@Kakerate2 so you having a problem ingame, dont call a judge, conceed, pick your cards up.. and the judge is the bad guy? how is he suppose to verify the board state when there is no board anymore? just by the facts in this moment, the one player conceeded. its eather that or a possibel DQ investigation for the other guy. Bystanders are never a good source in a situation like that, they could be biased to one player.
bystanders are never a good source to investigate as a judge in a situation like that, they could be biased to one player. Just keep in mind for the next event to call the judge when something happend or is unclear directly. The whole situation could have been avoided if the cards where still in play, it would have maybe been possibel for the judge to confirm or denie the live gain, by checking grave and so on. Also it doesnt hurt to compare livepoints before a final attack.
@@Scharrer23 im sorry, but i cant bother myself to read the rambling of some brainrot idiot on the internet right now. take your internet point, im sure you have some semblence of a conscious experience in there.
Went with friends to a PTQ and from out of town we made sure everyone had the number for the hotel and room extension where we stayed nearby the event. To be sure I didn't lose it, I stuck the slip of paper with the number in a sleeve and through it in my deck box. Round 2 or 3 not sure fairly early on in the day, my opponent must have noticed I had 16 cards in what appeared to be my sideboard, called over a judge. To verify I counted facedown my sideboard cards, one, two, three ... fifteen, and turning over the last card with the hotels local number I said "and your moms phone number." Wasn't a judge issue, wasn't even a magic issue - it was a personal safety issue and unrelated to the tournament in any way, 2 seconds of conversation could have avoided judge involvement but I'll happily take a warning to wipe the smug smile from the rules sharking tools face.
Nothing awkward about it. People need to be givin warnings a lot more for being assholes and wasting time. "No you didn't think he progressed the game because YOU have priority and are a professional player so you know better. Stop being a child" is what the judge should have said.
That’s a prime example, why I dislike competitive magic. Locally, even at smaller tournaments with prices at 300-500€ range, a couple of guys start this kind of behavior. It’s a rules enforcement that doesn’t make sense at all, if you „miss“ a trigger like this due to the needed seconds to grab a token from the box. Had people trying this to me, playing geist of saint traft. I attack, grab my deck box for the angel, the opponent instantly declares blockers and calls a judge. I mean how cheesy do you like it?
Rules concerning intent would go a long way to stop rules lawyers and bullies. I don't think I have had one enjoyable game against someone that is really into tournament/competitive MtG. It is never fun and it is always a chore, especially when they are losing. They will nitpick the tiniest things AND attempt set ups for judge calls, missed triggers or illegal actions intentionally. Their decks are usually boring and always the latest T1 net deck whether they play standard, modern, commander, pioneer, legacy or vintage. Interestingly enough, when they aren't playing a net deck, they really aren't good. I played in a edh tournament event at a store where the only rule was, you had to play a un-altered premade commander deck. Bring your own, buy one or borrow one. All of the guys that played CEDH got knocked out pretty easily. It isn't that the competitive people are really good players in general, they are just good at the decks and combos that they have looked up. Outside of their comfort zone and they are like fish out of water.
With that much money on the line I'd be reeling too, it's a shortcut that makes sense though, both triggers go on the stack, declare targets and win. He didn't miss the attack trigger so it still happens
So I try to be cool with my lgs/owner but he is tight with a certain couple of people. But when I go against this 1 guy who cheats all the time and is tight with the lgs owner/judge. He ends up backing up his friend and Companion needs to be stated instead of flashing it. And last night that player used his 1/0 artifact sword vamp and he blocks to block my 5/6 knight and then sacrifices the vamp then uses an instant to finish the knight amd takes the vampire from graveyard to battlefield. This player is a cheater. The judge says he doesn’t know but allows it. I can’t play there anymore.
if that dude was a real magic player he would have known playn it safe bites u in the azz, does he not remember the guy who drained life for exactsies in the 90s?
Wait. Wouldnt the monkey be retroactivly made and forced to attack if it was missed? Probably different at this high level, but at like an fnm. Kari doesnt say may. She must make a monkey. And theres no chance to forget to attack eith it, its already attacking
The presence or absence of the word "may" has nothing to do with it. Sometimes players simply forget about their triggers and the tournament rules have to be able to handle those situations. Sometimes that results in triggers being missed. At FNM, you'd be allowed to remember the trigger and make the monkey if you remembered it while your opponent was blocking, but at the pro tour, you don't have as much leeway
@@mckfencer I am watching the video and he declare all his attackers (tap them all to be straigth sideway and all) then return to passive position go back point to the creature announce the trigger and put the token into play. All in the span of 3 seconds, at this point there is so much sketchy judge call like this that something should be written down in the rules given a certain quantity of time before a judge can be called for a misplay and from the ruling we know you don't need to verbaly announce all your stuff or phases. Even if he declared go to blockers while fetching the token and not announcing the trigger it's ridiculous to call the judge like this, if you allow stuff like that to happen youl end up with someone forcing you to announce all phases, decline to do anything on all priority and so on. If that's what you want at that point force all big tournament to have chest clock at tables to keep times whitin strick limit and have a visible representation of when you pass priority.
@@davidchaput5484 keep in mind this is the finals of a pro tour, the players have been playing for many hours on end, and are probably under a lot of stress/pressure. I don't think the judge call was intentionally trying to angleshoot, but more likely a result of stress elongating the time between the declaration of the triggers.
Could maybe count as unsportsmanlike conduct and that could be penalized if it was found harmful to the event. Angle shooting (Hoping for judges to make wrong rulings) is not prohibited as officially you must back up the judges and support their decisions even when wrong.
Doesn't seem awkward to me. Bit of scum in there, but, like, you gotta try to win, and like it says in the video, there's a lot of money and pressure being in their seats so a few seconds for us could easily feel like minutes to them.
Playing against madcap-platinum emperion combo with my own stuffy doll/boros reckoner/blasphemous act brew, guy is playing lands in front and I have a stuffy doll in play with my opponent as the chosen player. He had emperion in play and attacks with it for 3-4 turns in a row. Plays an obstinate baloth, and the following turn goes to combat and says attacking with baloth, turns it sideways I say ok, block with stuffy doll. "ok, so you take 8" - I say what, you only attacked with baloth. He calls a judge and moves his arm to reveal a tapped platinum emperion that he never declared as an attacker that turn. Judge rules in his favor. I won the match by nuking him for 20 twice in a row with star of extinction, but man people are shit and it left a sour taste in my mouth. People like that suck.
It does happen. Both players can end up super focussed, time does go much slower. I've been judged called for apparently missing a trigger I didn't miss. Judge spoke to both of us, I won the judge call and it was all ok. I didn't however win that game, but I did make it hard work for the other player.
am I missing why anyone thinks this is anything other than scummy? It definitely looked like Darby hadn't passed priority yet for Goncalo to declare blocks. Even if he pauses for a moment, it is still declaring attacks and since both exert and Kari Zev's abilities are on attacks, he has the opportunity to stack and resolve those in any order he chooses.
Last summer in a tournament I had to call a judge when I reveal a kaldra compleat searched with stoneforge mystic while I had an other one that can activate her ability, my opponent was really quiet and we had a small time to finish the round. So he want to respond after I quickly search my kaldra (he should stop me before), killing my mystic that can activate her ability. There where 2 judges and a lot of waste of time. In the end I was right.
Dude was pathetic for trying to say the monkey didn't come in attacking. The cards were on the table and the intentions were there to trigger the monkey. If your petty enough to try that then you shouldn't have made it to the finals.
My favorite was at gp Minnie a couple years back, hog gal was running rampant and I decited to race with a home brew blue black fairies. I felt the l2s blood pressure rise when my opponent was needing to understand why my flashed in scion of oona was able to protect my bitter blossom from an abrupt decay
i mean i wouldn't even call this akward. It's the finals of a pro tour, sure it might have been scummy to try and win on a technicality but a wins a win when it's 50k on the line. Plus he might have just not known that the stack of triggers don't matter which is a pretty common mistake people make
I don’t personally feel like it was awkward, if he was doing that throughout the entire match then obviously it would have been, but he wanted to make sure his opponent fairly beat him, and when the judge confirmed that the trigger is mandatory he shook his opponent’s hand.
It had nothing to do with being mandatory. There is not much effective difference between may/mandatory triggers. The point was that the trigger creating ragavan could have still been on the stack and it only needs to be mentioned before the player confirms that the stack is empty (usually by moving to the next phase).
Reminder that all mtg pros are rules lawyers, scummy and would rather screw you over a technicality instead of playing the game. Really puts things into perspective.
You know what else puts things into perspective? $30k. People acting like that isn't a significant amount of money for a pro Magic player. Don't get me wrong, I would hope I wouldn't judge-call in that situation - but it's due to cost-benefit analysis. Whether you win or lose the judge call looks petty and rules lawyery at the least, but the odds of it actually working out for you are quite low. So you have a high chance of looking petty (or worse) and having nothing extra to show for it, and a very low chance of looking petty (or worse) and having $30k extra to show for it. But I wouldn't begrudge someone for taking that chance to more than double their prize money.
@@jaxsonbateman And we can disagree on that. MtG pros that I have played against or with all do this scummy rules lawyering on technicalities. They do even worse than this and get away with it. Whether it's a promo pack or 30k, this is unsportsmanlike behavior. And guess what, you want to be a pro too? You have to compete with the same tactics. Truly disgusting! And again, you're free to disagree.
