Doug, it has taken me several years and grad school to really appreciate the insight of the balance of anabolism/catabolism. You definitely should be proud of such a clear definition of health.
Bryce, Hi praise coming from you my friend. When you combine your extensive education with your personal training experience and your experience training clients, then you have the perfect set up to realize aspects of this issue that the research sometimes cannot make clear.
As a 50-plus year-old woman trying to build skeletal muscle, I've been watching videos with Gabrielle Lyon and hearing a lot about mTor (and getting a bit confused). This video popped up and thankfully it pulled everything together. Now I get it. Thank you, Dr. McGuff!
Glad to hear no peripheral / outside noise other than the echo this time! This seemed quite technical, and yet quite simple to understand (with basic biology knowledge, anyway).
As with all of the other quality content provided by Dr. Doug, this one is right up there with the best of his best. He brings a blessedly practical clarity to the subject of mTor as he has with so many other areas. No easy task if you have toured the internet trying to traverse this "rabbit hole". Thank you my friend for your generosity of spirit and wisdom.
Thank you Dr. McGuff. This was a great elucidation of the need for context with respect to not only the consequences of mTOR, but any other biochemical process in the body. Not subsuming a biochemical process within the proper framework has allowed science reporting to run rampant with the unjustified and sensational vilification of so many natural processes such as increases in IGF1, mTOR, and the mother of false indictments as the result of out context arguments - seeing elevated LDL as the primary cause of heart disease. Let us be honest here. The demonization of IGF1, mTOR, and LDL isn't purely born out of an innocent mistake of not seeing these things in the right context. These processes are maligned because these three things tend to go up with animal protein consumption, so portraying these things are harmful helps the vegan agenda. Plant based ideologues deliberately IGNORE CONTEXT so as to make meat look pernicious.
Drake, Could not have said it better!! Look at all the massive propaganda (such as Game Changers) that had their root in Government grain subsidies that began in the great depression and have been propped up ever since. Now, the fact we must have 10% ethanol in each gallon of gas we put in our car supports a food supply that turns Americans into human grain disposal silos. When the populace starts to figure out they've been lied to and a Carnivore/keto/paleo approach works, the corporate-government monster will try to crush it with lies...or when that fails...force.
You are so knowledgeable Dr McGuff. I purchased your book Body by Science years ago and started super slow. I feel it is a great workout for aging. I am 61 years old. But, the fatigue experienced after exercise trigger anxiety/panic in me … I have suffered from anxiety / panic for seven years due to illness of a loved one. Today, I still have anxiety (and it causes blood pressure to go up at times...yikes), I walk daily but very little resistance exercise because of my fatigue and panic. I did start the amino acid GABA (from Trudy Scott’s book) for panic and it helps. I am trying to get out of this cycle Doc! John (JohnAlanLawence)
High intensity exercise does activate flight or fight systems, so it may briefly exacerbate anxiety symptoms. However, over time it builds resilience. Also consider downloading the "Waking Up" meditation app by Sam Harris. There are some great courses for dealing with anxiety/PTSD.
Troy Lee, have you had a dexa body scan? Or tested your body composition/RMR/V02Max? I as well at 45yrs started IF and PF and have experienced amazing gains. Using science to train!
Troy Lee that’s incredible! How many days a week do you IF with that schedule? I’m getting closer to being comfortable with it. What changes have you seen bc of fasted workouts? I do HIIT/kickboxing and resistance training...most times I do them fasted; I’m working on that also. Thank you.
As a physics professor, I know much more about mTorr than mTor. With mTorr being the pressure unit milliTorr (i.e., millitorr) named after the 17th century Italian physicist Torricelli. My friend the late great Mike Mentzer would have something to say about mTor. In his memory, I developed X-HDRT (Extra Heavy Duty Resistance Training).
I'm doing both Super Slow and Healthy Ketosis, intermittent fasting plus some longer 24-48 hr fasts. I started out doing the ketosis and IF and longer fasts for a couple years. Once I found Super Slow I dove in and the results are impressive. I can now do the slav squat (or native or asian squat) and I squat like that often. Sounds meaningless but I would have never imagined I'd be able to squat like that again. I would never have hoped I could look and feel so much younger again. I may as well be in my 20s again! (But I don't demand my joints do the things I would do if I were lol)
Impressive results indeed. I hear this sort of story over and over. The combination of a correct dietary approach and exercise approach are massively synergistic. I think once science catches up, they will realize that Metformin and Rapamycin are chicken-shit compared to this.
What is healthy ketosis? Is normal ketosis unhealthy? I did keto for 3y straight in the past and did not notice any positive/negative effects on my health (apart from finally loosing my belly fat). Are you telling me I am yet to suffer the consequences of my keto diet?
I used to do intermittent fasting for a few years, mostly 16 to 18 hours of not eating, it worked perfectly and I felt perfectly, I went to the gym and maintained the same weight over all those years but I didn't progress, now I started eating a bowl of oatmeal in the morning and my trainings are more focused on strength and less on volume, I'm getting stronger, I weigh 5 kg's more but I still look lean. I swear to it that the Intermittent Fasting changed something in my body permanently, my body is much better at burning fat now. I would go back to intermittent fasting but my goals are different now and with my workouts being more intense due to higher weights im sure I'm activating mtor still, I feel like a thousand bucks.
A long time ago I read somthing by Ken Hutchins where he said that it's still possible for people to build muscle even in the face of outright starvation, if they were given the right stimulus. I was always highly skeptical of how that could come about but this video explains how cells could compete with one another and re-partition nutrients even without amino acids being present. However, I still think the right set of circumstances would be incredibly rare as myostatin probably keeps that whole process in check for the majority of people.
Paul, It is possible...and ketosis actually ramps up ribosome biogenesis and S6 peptid (via mTor signaling). So fasting (controlled starvation) could actually augment the process. But it cannot go on forever obviously. Malnutrition would shut things down. However, gross overfeeding and shunting to fat storage will blunt or halt the muscle growth process. This is why I am against "bulking".
I am stronger, lift more weight more easily and with more intensity when I am 48 or even 60 hours fasted. I do this regularly and am gradually gaining muscle and strength. I'm doing this as a post-menopause female. Of course this is not "outright starvation" and I'm fat-adapted and eat only healthy foods when I do eat. 7-10 cups of organic vegetables per day and healthy fats and proteins. Moderate protein. Essentially Eric Berg's "Healthy Ketosis." When I test my blood glucose out of curiosity, it rises from the 70s into the 90s by the end of an intense weight training or hiit session. Of course the ketones will drop from 2 or 3 down to something like .5. So I suppose I am spiking hormones like cortisol to accomplish these intense fasted workouts. Not sure that is healthy, but I hope the cortisol drops quickly when I'm done and eating a healthy meal afterwards.
Love your work Dr. McGuff. I just became a wellness coach which is just the beginning of my learning. I take copious notes when listening to you. Thank you for all you do in explaining why strength training is so important and how to reverse the aging process. Can you touch on the types of supplements to take for building muscle naturally? I know food is our best medicine/nutrition, however, our food supply does not have everything we need in it. Also, what are your thoughts on taking creatine as we get older? Thank you very much!
What are your your thoughts on activating AMPK and suppressing MTOR with compounds like resveratrol, Metformin, Green Coffee Extract, etc. in conjunction with exercise? Dr. David Sinclair suggests that taking these compounds on the same day as resistance training may dampen the training response (I.e. blunt mitochondrial increase in muscle cells, etc.) but says optimal timing of these protocols is not yet well understood. Based on my understanding of exercise recovery I would guess that one needs to be in the highest anabolic state (MTOR activation) on the day AFTER exercise rather than on the day of exercise, or perhaps on both days. Have you seen any data or have any thoughts on integrating these compounds with training? For anyone who trains several days of the week, finding an appropriate time to take the supplements becomes challenging.
As far as I know, Metformin is the only compound proven to blunt the response to resistance exercise in animal studies. I personally think that Metformin may not be necessary when one does a form of exercise that results in aggressive disposal of excess energy. Creating an energy sink is a very reliable way to ramp AMPK. A brief but intense spike of mTor in skeletal muscle results in a long-term suppression of overall body mTor and increase in AMPK. I personally believe high intensity training in the fasted state will greatly amplify this effect.
After listening to Dr. Rhonda Patrick and others, I believe AMPK is activated by exercise and fasting, mtor by the nutrition that follows. I try to exercise in a fasted state in the morning, and stop eating by 8:00 PM.
@Wu Me Review Dr. patrick's Found My Fitness you tube channel, check out her interviews with guests like David Sinclair, Elissa Epel, Mike Maser, Guido Kroemer, etc. and judge for yourself if you think they are credible. My personal experience is without following any type of specific diet, such as Keto, by just following a time restricted eating habit, 16:8 (12-8 pm) and lifting fasted in the morning, I lost 10 pds. without changing what I eat at all.
@@frankmucci8485 i just finished David Sinclair's book, Lifespan. Fascinating read about why we age and more important, his belief about why we don't have to. I'm 78 years old and have trained over 60 years. I have tried every diet there is and have ended up not following any diet. I train fasted and have a 4-5 hour eating window but eat what ever I feel like. I think you are on to something.
@@patrickvanmeter2922 Lifespan and Boundless by Ben Greenfield are on my Christmas list. On the plus side, I have learned so much in the last few years , on the minus side, it makes me realize how little I know. Back in the 1980s became interested in healthspan and longevity when I read Linus Pauling's book How To Live Longer and feel Better, and Life Extension by Dirk Pearson and Sandy Shaw. Still supplement with Vitamin C but not as much as i used to.
IFer, 16-20 hrs - 3 years now. Train mostly fasted. 50 this year. Weight+BF% in 2009: 195 @ 6%. Weight+BF% in 2020: 198 @ 9%. What's the difference? No pre workout meal. Time post work out meal as 'BREAK' of fast after training.
After this video I am completely confused. I had a heart transplant, I want to be healthy and grow muscle have energy. I am prescribed tacrolimus and sirolumus. I've read Sirolimus is a MTOR inhibitor. Am I wasting time working out and intermitten fasting? Maybe I'm actually causing damage if my body isn't td to repair cells ever. ?? Very concerning.
Thanks, Dr. McGuff to clear this up. In your presentation IHMC, you mentioned that blood restricted training is also an effective way to train the muscle. Would you recommend this type of training together with the high-intensity resistance training protocal to someone without joint issues (i.e. can take normal loads in high-intensity resistance training) to accelerate the result?
Mark, You could certainly incorporate it and the literature supports it. I strongly suspect that slow cadence training produces a similar degree of venous trapping and metabolic effect. I don't use it much....last time maybe 3-4 years ago as a personal experiment when this was a very hot topic.
It doesn't explain it simple enough the taking the foot off the brake. Do you mean that if you exercise it uses the calories or energy that the insulin had stored?
Mario, WAY to complex to answer here. I would suggest viewing some lectures on the topic at ihmc.us. Also check out peterattiamd.com as well as Rhonda Patrick at foundmyfitness.com. In short....keto, IF, HIT. As always....this does not constitute medical advice.
What are your thoughts on limiting protein intake (to close to the RDA) for longevity? Similar concerns have been raised by some about high protein levels spiking certain hormones that will adversely impact longevity. Any context on this? Since you are a fan of David Sinclair, I wonder what you think about taking supplements to boost NAD levels? Are you on board yet?
Craig, I am on board with NAD boosters as there is strong animal evidence and no evidence for harm in humans. I am less concerned about protein as a driver of mTor if it is supplying muscular demands. Where protein is a problem is during high energy intake and low muscular activity. If you want all bad things to happen to you....overfeed and restrict muscular activity.
I'm thankful to have found your info Doc! I'm 53 and have been beating myself up in the gym for years. Suffered a few injuries that seem to not wanna heal completely and just when I think I'm getting better, I'll do something stupid to aggravate them again...derp! I'm on immunosuppressants for kidney/pancreas transplant but realize that the problem of recovery is more likely lifting improperly and overtraining. Needles to say I'm intrigued with this method and will begin to learn more and implement it immediately! BTW, your podcast with Drew Baye provided some excellent info! Thanks again....
Dan, Glad you are giving it a go. You should be able to manage recovery within the constraints of your immunosuppressants (which may themselves have some life-extending properties).
I do IF and work out daily but also, on occasion, enjoy a gin and tonic and a smoke at the end of the day. (don't drink or smoke daily, habitually though.)
Love your exercise program been doing it for several years and I love it. However I noticed in your video that you have really bad lighting in your gym. Fluorescent lights put out a lot of toxic blue light. In addition they all sell slicker and produce lots of dirty electricity. I go to the gym to improve my health but this type of lighting is detrimental
Rene, I like my Tanita scale because it lies to me...it says I'm 7-8% BF. Seriously, I generally don't do much testing because I fear I may not like what I see. ER is high stress and low sleep, and until I get out or at least decrease significantly, I don't want to know.
There was an interesting hypothesis recently that the complicated nature of human biology is actually the result of ongoing pathogen defence evolution system. In essence, apart from sheer size, the reason we are harder to infect than smaller organisms is that we have evolved multiple redundant pathways to the same end, so triggering a simple chemical or hormone in us doesn't necessarily mean you get x result, the pathway matters. This would seem to suggest logically that everything in medicine has pathway specificity, like IGF1 upregulation as you say - you can do it by sugar or by exercise, and the results differ. In the same way I suspect consuming exogenous ketones or injecting them into the blood stream will not then necessarily produce the same results as upregulating the endogenous pathways that produce them normally. Is this an area you've looked into /seen happen with any of your exercise clients or as an ER doc?
DB, Excellent insights that I could not state better. Yes, I have looked into it and seen it happen. Whenever someone gets "locked in" on a certain regulator or pathway I always have to remind them...context matters.
I enjoy the exercise components of your videos but as I have seen and read so much information about the dangers of the Atkins style diet you seem to be recommending. I won’t go down that track. Again I really enjoy your exercise videos.
Linda, No. They both turn on mTor for muscle growth. Amino acids + resistance training = turns on mTor in muscle (good). Amino acids + excess energy intake + inactivity=turning on mTor in the liver (bad).
@@DrewBaye thanks. I've read it (as well as Project Kratos and Timed Static Contractions). What I mean is that I've got a large appetite for digging into HIT, but not enough time to match it.
@@mattely6774 in that case, you need to choose carefully who you will invest your limited time listening to or reading. If you're here watching Doug, you're on the right track.
@@DrewBaye definitely. I'm thinking of the more technical stuff like myokines, cytokines, mTor and all that. The fundamentals of HIT are pretty simple enough. I like your videos as well.
I think Dr. McGuff is addressing the thoughts that mTor can be stimulated different ways and that basically, resistance training exercise is not one to avoid because its use signals healthy pathways in the muscle to use energy from our high food consumption to be used for building good tissue (muscle) with a higher catabolic need. A great reference I am pretty sure Dr McGuff knows is Dr Gundry’s Longevity Paradox...chapter 3 addresses mTor directly... “By measuring your IGF-1 level, we can therefore assess how much mTOR is being stimulated in your body. Most of us nowadays stimulate mTOR constantly because of our plentiful food supply. We always have excess energy in the body for mTOR to sense, so our IGF-1 levels are routinely high. This leads to disease and rapid aging. When cells are told to grow indiscriminately with no period of regression, it paves the way for cancer cells to proliferate. Your cells also never get the signal to cull the herd and recycle old or dysfunctional cells through autophagy.” Excerpt From Longevity Paradox : How to Die Young at a Ripe Old Age Gundry, Steven R. Keep up the great work, Dr McGuff!
It also looks to me like in someone chronically resistance trained, you're actually upregulating the AMPK pathway, which is ultimately increasing autophagy... Definitely more in line with reversing cellular age than aging. lol. Sources: www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0531556513000405 onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/apha.13069
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Well all things in moderation and the Super Slow is very moderate by nature. Things like healthy ketosis and intermittent fasting reduce insulin resistance and permit the body to have time each day to heal rather than digesting constantly. I am in the midst of a two day water fast and my Boz ratio (glucose mg/dL/ketones mmol/L) is 12-15 (depending on which meter you want to believe). This puts me in a healing mode. Check out Thomas Delauer to see how to do longer term fasts (24-72 hours) He says beyond 72 hours you get diminishing benefits. Again, all things in moderation. And, face it, a lot of these things like Super Slow or deliberate ketosis are attempts to fix what's gone wrong from the Standard American Diet and over or under exercising where our ancestors were simply moving most of each day and not able to eat processed frankenfoods.
OK this was interesting now that I can focus on it after starting to refeed. I'm wondering if I ought to do my Super Slow workout in a few days like normal or if it plus the 48 hour fast is too much stress. And if I need more recovery time now. I'll just go withhow I feel. Last time I did a long fast I did a Peak8 cycling workout just to see and wound up ruining the fast because up went the glucose and down went the ketones.
@Wu Me His video on Beginner's Long term fasting was good. I've tried to watch Fung, but he just says the same things over and over again. He never seems to get to the point, either. I'll check out the link.
@Wu Me Thomas Delauer is definitely MUCH MORE in the keto camp than the CICO camp. Maybe he's changed over the years and you saw some of his old material?
You mention over nutrition (aka overeating lol) and let me say that if you just go for a walk for 20 or 30 minutes after overeating, it drops your glucose and I think it prevents the storing of that sugar as fat... At least when I tested my blood glucose and ketones after trying that it seemed to work. Not that this is some excuse to go about overeating loads of junk now....
Ellington Darden hit upon this over 20 years ago. Incorporating a walk after the evening meal was part of his protocol. Dr. Darden was ahead of his time.
High Intensity Health discussion of mTOR and need for more protein with age. Leucine - 2.5g required to stimulate muscle protein synthesis. Unfortunately, plant based proteins lack the minimal leucine required. Eat more protein on non-weight lifting days. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Jl_vjYhhgKY.html She's wrong about weight training in a fasted state not being good. I am stronger and can easily get more intensity and more endurance while 48-60 hours fasted. But then I may just naturally do well in ketosis versus high carb.
