Hey guys... just saw this now. Thanks so much for the reaction. I found it to be very respectful and interesting. I'm also glad that you got my main point. Some people misunderstood and thought I was trying to debunk the Quran, which I wasn't trying to do. I was simply trying to show the alternative view that scholars use.
I love how Muslims in order to defend the Qur'an for Muhammed not remembering bible stories correctly, have to say, "Oh no bro, even if Muhammad and Allah do not say it, the Qur'an is correcting the other books" What a joke.
Love how you think the Bible is an accurate record of historical events that the Quran has to live up to, when we don’t even know who wrote the biblical scriptures, and the stories Therein often contradict 👍 Is it really that hard to believe God can reveal a corrective on something that humans messed up? -Rohaib
@@MuslimMindsUS You're a smart guy, and you seem like you have a somewhat of understanding of the methodology that secular historians study history. I'm assuming you know this, but as you know there is no respected established historian that goes to the Qur'an to retrieve reliable, historical information. Secular historians, to learn anything about the land of Canaan/Israelite tribes, to the Kingdom of Israel and Judah they go to the bible. They believe the bible is historical fiction, but if you dig beneath deep enough under the fiction you can find what's likely to be historical. They would never do the same with the Qur'an, because factually it is historically unreliable. Due to the nature its composition, its genre, and lack of a coherent, chronological, detailed narrative structure it is seen as unusable. Ironically, the bible is more reliable then the Qur'an if you want to know something about ancient Israel or Jesus. like who was the king of Babylon who destroyed Israel? Or who was the king who defeated Babylon, and brought the Jews out of captivity? That's only information you'd find in the bible, not the Qur'an.
I agree with you Shenron, a lot of the major descriptions of things found in biblical texts are most probably true, even the details such as a person named Jesus that once lived. Our point is these stories became more legendary and falsehoods seeped into the text. From the Quran, historians can and have gathered what the culture was of Mecca, Medina, and what the other historical events within the Arabian peninsula were. The mast majority of respected historians actually get what they know about Mecca and Medina, including: wars, history, religious beliefs, customs, and so on from Islamic tradition. Including that of that happened to other large empires as well such as the Byzantine and the Sassinid empires, So I don’t understand where you got that point from. -Rohaib
@@MuslimMindsUS "Legendary and Falsehood"? I assure you, Islam absolutely mythologizes the patriarchs of the Israel and Judah, to a cartoonish degree as well as make historical blunders. Like Solomon talking to ants, or how in the Qur'an Muhammad ascribes King David having chain mail (surah 34:10-11) which in the 10th century BC, chain mail didn't exist during the Bronze Age. You'd have to be practicing some next level cognitive dissonance just overlook that. Also your stance on the Qur'an correcting the books before is the logical fallacy, "circular reasoning". You're assuming mistakes in the Qur'an are corrections based off your fallacious starting conclusion that the Qur'an is right, which is not how you do objective reasoning. Especially when explicitly state anything is wrong with the bible, the Torah, or Gospels. That's something Muslims are forced to conclude because of Muhammad's blunder. Yeah, from the Islamic tradition, the sunnah, I'm speaking of the Qur'an though. Historians wouldn't find anything substantial to verify anything prior to the 7th century. A Near East anthropologists and Semitic linguist are the ones to get the most out of the Qur'an, not a historian. Objectively, historically, its inaccurate in its retelling of anything before the 7th century, and that's not even controversial state in the academy.
@@MuslimMindsUS The Quran states that the Bible is true. Its words came from God, have not been changed, and cannot be corrupted. For the first, it repeatedly says that the former Scriptures (the Old and New Testaments, the Torah and Gospels) are from God: “He has sent down upon you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel. Before, as guidance for the people. And He revealed the Qur'an.” 3:3-4 Also: “And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming that which came before him in the Torah; and We gave him the Gospel, in which was guidance and light and confirming that which preceded it of the Torah as guidance and instruction for the righteous.” 5:46 It’s clear enough that the Quran teaches the Bible to be from Allah. Next, the Quran clearly states that the Gospels have not been changed or corrupted, nor can they be: “For them are good tidings in the worldly life and in the Hereafter. No change is there in the words of Allah. That is what is the great attainment.” 10:64 And again: “And the word of your Lord has been fulfilled in truth and in justice. None can alter His words, and He is the Hearing, the Knowing.” 6:115 And yet again: “And certainly were messengers denied before you, but they were patient over [the effects of] denial, and they were harmed until Our victory came to them. And none can alter the words of Allah. And there has certainly come to you some information about the [previous] messengers.” 6:34 And again: And recite, [O Muhammad], what has been revealed to you of the Book of your Lord. There is no changer of His words.” 18:27 Thus the clear teaching of the Quran is that the Torah and Gospels have not been changed.
According to the Catholic Catechism, Christianity isn't a "religion of the book", but a "religion of the Word", with most Christians viewing Jesus as the Word made flesh. The reason I said most is because there are some modern Christians who may not view Jesus as the Word. Academically, they would be labeled as Christian, but their beliefs make them not Christian.
This proves islam is men made religion. This is not but legends of the former people in quran s46;17 But one who says to his parents, "Uff to you; do you promise me that I will be brought forth [from the earth] when generations before me have already passed on [into oblivion]?" while they call to Allah for help [and to their son], "Woe to you! Believe! Indeed, the promise of Allah is truth." But he says, "This is not but legends of the former people" - dog in the cave In the Christian and Islamic traditions, the Seven Sleepers, otherwise known as the Sleepers of Ephesus and Companions of the Cave, is a medieval legend about a group of youths who hid inside a cave outside the city of Ephesus around AD 250 to escape one of the Roman persecutions of Christians and emerged some 300 years later. Another version of the story appears in the Quran (18:9-26) s18;22 They will say there were three, the fourth of them being their dog; and they will say there were five, the sixth of them being their dog - guessing at the unseen; and they will say there were seven, and the eighth of them was their dog. Say, [O Muhammad], "My Lord is most knowing of their number. None knows them except a few. So do not argue about them except with an obvious argument and do not inquire about them among [the speculators] from anyone." 23 And never say of anything, "Indeed, I will do that tomorrow," 24 Except [when adding], "If Allah wills." And remember your Lord when you forget [it] and say, "Perhaps my Lord will guide me to what is nearer than this to right conduct." 25 And they remained in their cave for three hundred years and exceeded by nine. 26 Say, "Allah is most knowing of how long they remained. He has [knowledge of] the unseen [aspects] of the heavens and the earth. How Seeing is He and how Hearing! They have not besides Him any protector, and He shares not His legislation with anyone." Story of 7 sleepers in cave
The Useful Charts channel is quite good. The guy who does the religious charts for it is Jewish but grew up in an extreme christian group that thought only they knew the truth and that the (white) people of the UK and USA were the descendents of the ten lost tribes of Israel but left that at university. I like his videos, he seems fair and unbiased. His who wrote the bible videos, there may be 5 of them, are interesting but they do tend to back up my understanding so I could be biased.
There are different ways to view inerrancy, but I would say most Christians treat the Bible as inerrant. Inerrancy does not mean literalism, but the two are often confused. Example: A scientist and poet describing a sunset. Both are true but use different means to describe that truth. You wouldn't take a math textbook and claim it is bad at science, or a science textbook and claim it is bad poetry.
Hey carlose! Then how would you describe inherrency as opposed to the video? With this videos definition, the Bible couldn’t be inherrent as it’s known to have some inaccuracies so infallibility makes more sense. What are your thoughts? -Hamz
@@MuslimMindsUS we would argue the errors are actually simply poet writing, for theological reasons "Lost world of Adam and Eve." Covers the theology behind the creation story of Genesis
1} *Terrorism* is a word that came into the English language through the terror of atheists. Even the word Terror - Terrorism originated in English is not related to Muslims. After the French Revolution of 1789, thousands of French citizens were led to the infamous guillotines for treason since 1793 at the hands of radical revolutionaries who overthrew Louis XVI. The word Terrorism in English comes from the French word Terrorisme - terrorism which has evolved to refer to this terror. 2} The Christians were the first to start an armed terrorist organization in the modern world. The first terrorist organization in the modern world was the Christian-Irish Republican Brotherhood and its sister organization, the American Fenian Brotherhood. Know that all other terrorist organizations have emerged in the world by following their methods as an example. 3} The first suicide bombing in the world was done by an atheist terrorist. The first suicide bombing in the world was carried out by an atheist radical left-wing terrorist group called 'Narodnaya Volya' (People's Decision) founded in 1879. On March 13, 1881, a young man named Ignaty Grivenetsky killed Tsar Alexander II by suicide bombing. This Russian is known as the world's first Suicide Bomber Terrorist. {You can check all of this.} The origin of none of this has anything to do with Islam or Muslims. 4} Terrorism is based on geopolitics, not religion.That's how the academic world views this issue. *Encyclopedia Britannica defines terrorism as:* "Terrorism, the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective. Terrorism has been practiced by political organizations with both rightist and leftist objectives, by nationalistic and religious groups, by revolutionaries, and even by state institutions such as armies, intelligence services, and police.'' ( Jhon Philip Jenkins : Professor of History, Baylor University. Author of A History of the United States, Mystics and Messiahs: Cults and New Religions in America, Synthetic Panics: The Symbolic... Britannica / Terrorism ) Terrorism is defined in the Oxford Dictionary as - “the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.” {Teichman, J. (1989). How to define terrorism. Philosophy, 64(250), 505-517.}
Nice video, regarding scientific mistakes in the bible, the book of Isaiah actually shows a round earth, and Genesis 1 and 2 are unlikely to he litteral creation stories (the books Lost world of Genesis 1/Adam and Eve) cover this quite well, God bless :)
It seems to me that it is from the problems of interpreting facts and establishing the truth from several known facts, that even true facts can be structured in different ways, depending on your personal thinking, for example, and because of the difference in structure, these facts will acquire a different meaning.
The story that at the same time (or almost simultaneously) in different parts of the world different people become prophets and talk about the same stories reminds me of the phenomenon of scientific discoveries that open a new era for humanity. Discoveries that scientists sometimes made independently of each other, and this even led to the fact that later there were disputes about who made the discovery first.
Also, Useful charts "who wrote the bible" is based on the JEPD or Documentary Hypothesis (The idea the Torah is made up of many sources) tho this theory has lost favour, because many ancient texts contained repetition, that's just how oral stories were, the Pentatuch/Torah is almost certainly a single unified text. I reccomned the video, "Are there 2 creation accounts in Genesis?" By Inspiring Philsosphy.
@@MuslimMindsUS 1} *Terrorism* is a word that came into the English language through the terror of atheists. Even the word Terror - Terrorism originated in English is not related to Muslims. After the French Revolution of 1789, thousands of French citizens were led to the infamous guillotines for treason since 1793 at the hands of radical revolutionaries who overthrew Louis XVI. The word Terrorism in English comes from the French word Terrorisme - terrorism which has evolved to refer to this terror. 2} The Christians were the first to start an armed terrorist organization in the modern world. The first terrorist organization in the modern world was the Christian-Irish Republican Brotherhood and its sister organization, the American Fenian Brotherhood. Know that all other terrorist organizations have emerged in the world by following their methods as an example. 3} The first suicide bombing in the world was done by an atheist terrorist. The first suicide bombing in the world was carried out by an atheist radical left-wing terrorist group called 'Narodnaya Volya' (People's Decision) founded in 1879. On March 13, 1881, a young man named Ignaty Grivenetsky killed Tsar Alexander II by suicide bombing. This Russian is known as the world's first Suicide Bomber Terrorist. {You can check all of this.} The origin of none of this has anything to do with Islam or Muslims. 4} Terrorism is based on geopolitics, not religion.That's how the academic world views this issue. *Encyclopedia Britannica defines terrorism as:* "Terrorism, the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective. Terrorism has been practiced by political organizations with both rightist and leftist objectives, by nationalistic and religious groups, by revolutionaries, and even by state institutions such as armies, intelligence services, and police.'' ( Jhon Philip Jenkins : Professor of History, Baylor University. Author of A History of the United States, Mystics and Messiahs: Cults and New Religions in America, Synthetic Panics: The Symbolic... Britannica / Terrorism ) Terrorism is defined in the Oxford Dictionary as - “the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.” {Teichman, J. (1989). How to define terrorism. Philosophy, 64(250), 505-517.}
When ur reviewing such videos u need to 1st forget that u belong to particular religion U should have a open mind To me Islam doesn’t support questioning or rationalism U guys may feel offended but it’s the truth They why u don’t see freedom of speech or freedom of religion in Islamic country if u question anything about Islam then ur being blasphemous In the video it’s told that Arabic doesn’t have vowels then why would god choose a difficult language to transmit his teaching and mislead humans clearly doesn’t make any sense And the guy in the video forgot to mention about kadhijaah (a Christian wife of Mohammad ) clearly he was in very close contact with Christianity even in mecca He also forgot to mention the Jews of medina again a lot of medini surah were influenced by Jews
Khadijah was the first women to revert to Islam and her christian uncle I believe said he was a prophet. If Islam does not support questioning or rationalism then why are there like 10k Hadith which is the companions literally asking questions to the prophet Muhammad SAW about Islam? We are coming with open minds, you do not seem to be. The author of the original video even had an open mind and agreed with the same points we have, and then gave the academic view on Islam if you do not believe in it. You are telling us not to have a bias but it seems you have the biggest bias? The Quran tells us to question things and ponder, so that’s false. I’m not even trying to come off rude, but your comment is full of misconceptions and false narratives. -Hamza
@@MuslimMindsUSOk u guys claim Quran is 100% correct then if we find any 1error in the book then entire book is proved false cuz the initial claim of 💯 accuracy itself is false claim There is 1 topic in the Quran called development of foetus in womb just read that I know according to ur so called peaceful religion and merciful god allah atheist has no right to live. Kafirs will burn in hell for ever even though he was good guy in his entire life just because he didn’t accept Islam he will be burnt in hell(it sounds like an ideology that someone would use to scare people and try to keep them in Islam and make people to convert to Islam). And u guys run around telling about jannah I wanna be respectful but is it jannah or prostitute house where u have 72 virgin girls and with them u can have eternal physical satisfaction I have seen other religions it tells people with lust has no place in heaven but Islamic jannah is filled with lustful people And what does women get in jannah? talking about women Islam says women is half intelligent as men 2womens vote =1 men vote What type of justice is this And women should be covered in burka why only women why not men wear over there lustful eyes Literally what type of god u have who divides entire world as Muslims and kafirs and Muslims as Muslim men and Muslim women And I can understand ur pain u can’t leave this religion because if u leave Islam ur entire family will abandon u ( if ur in secular state) or u will be sent to death (if ur in islamic state)
@@MuslimMindsUSit quite depends om the topic, the quran clearly does forbid asking or questioning certain things. Quran 5:101 and speaking about hadiths as you said theres hundrets and another hundrets in wich the prophet got visible angry at them for asking questions. So fact is, both of you are right🤷🏼certain things are simply not allowed to be questioned while other things are.
@@MuslimMindsUS the author of the video only agreed with the traditional view regarding the composition of the Quran, NOT the source of the Quran (which of course you believe to be Allah). He stated the Muslim belief and then provided the view held by secular scholars and academics, that being the Quran is a product of various religious stories that would have been around in Arabia during Mohammed’s time, a view the author believes. I respect that you want to defend your religion, and I commend your faith in the face of what could otherwise be seen as damning evidence against it, but please do not be dishonest about another persons viewpoints to aid your argument.
This proves islam is men made religion. This is not but legends of the former people in quran s46;17 But one who says to his parents, "Uff to you; do you promise me that I will be brought forth [from the earth] when generations before me have already passed on [into oblivion]?" while they call to Allah for help [and to their son], "Woe to you! Believe! Indeed, the promise of Allah is truth." But he says, "This is not but legends of the former people" - dog in the cave In the Christian and Islamic traditions, the Seven Sleepers, otherwise known as the Sleepers of Ephesus and Companions of the Cave, is a medieval legend about a group of youths who hid inside a cave outside the city of Ephesus around AD 250 to escape one of the Roman persecutions of Christians and emerged some 300 years later. Another version of the story appears in the Quran (18:9-26) s18;22 They will say there were three, the fourth of them being their dog; and they will say there were five, the sixth of them being their dog - guessing at the unseen; and they will say there were seven, and the eighth of them was their dog. Say, [O Muhammad], "My Lord is most knowing of their number. None knows them except a few. So do not argue about them except with an obvious argument and do not inquire about them among [the speculators] from anyone." 23 And never say of anything, "Indeed, I will do that tomorrow," 24 Except [when adding], "If Allah wills." And remember your Lord when you forget [it] and say, "Perhaps my Lord will guide me to what is nearer than this to right conduct." 25 And they remained in their cave for three hundred years and exceeded by nine. 26 Say, "Allah is most knowing of how long they remained. He has [knowledge of] the unseen [aspects] of the heavens and the earth. How Seeing is He and how Hearing! They have not besides Him any protector, and He shares not His legislation with anyone." Story of 7 sleepers in cave
The Quran is a corrective of these accounts as it is a revelation from God, that’s why these accounts are taken to be true by Muslims despite the differences of old legends. That legend about the seven sleepers is a legend for a reason, something could have occurred and the Quran affirms this legend was indeed a real tale of believers. -Rohaib
If only this Chanel also compared Hinduism or Sanatan dharma to stuff that are written in The Kuran or the Bible ( the Abrahemic religion ) you would be surprised how it resonates with similarities, except be comparable to how Creol language were formed ,in terms of understanding of the ancient hindu scriptures. Look up a theory by BBC on Christs journey of Christ to India during his formative age while missing for aproximate 14 years . Including his final resting place in Kashmir ,where his tomb still exist. Sounds blasphemous, but it has evidences of his first trip in many parts of india ,where he took his teachings and realizations. It's interesting to look at the documentary with a open mind .😊 And I noticed you understand the symbolisms from your own holy book that was compared by you in explaining while giving the example of the land of the rising sun . But when you reacted to the Concepts of Hindism vlog ,you could not by reflex interpret imagery in the same process. So if you are doing into something ,keep your minds open as scientists of philosophy.😊
If we start from the point of view of a believer/religious person, is it possible that without meeting Christians/Jews, Muhammad simply would not have had the words and concepts to recite the Koran in the future? It's like dictating to a person who knows nothing about the structure of the genome, a story about how translation and transcription occurs through the ribosome and other things. Without certain words and terms it is impossible to pronounce some meaning.
I though it was a recitation, now hes saying they compiled it in small scriptures..Uthamn should bring the recitators small parchments to be collected..lol
The Quran is the recited words, they also wrote it down and compiled verses here and there, Uthman standardized the compilation of the Mushaf (written book of Quran). -Hamza
@@MuslimMindsUS The reason why Uthman standardized the quran because recitation failed..There are so many different ricitations..And this burning and writing new quran was the beginning of Sahabas conflict with each other..
Interesting, I have never read even one weak Hadith or source, not even a fabricated one where they said the reason Uthman did this is because recitation failed. The reason I read, and every other Muslim understands, as well as secular historians, is that the newer provinces needed master Quran copies of their own because they didn’t have as many reciters and people were making mistakes because of this. 😅 -Rohaib
@@MuslimMindsUS Muslims cannot read between the lines..They recite verses but do not understand it. That is why you need scholars to explain for you..If what you are saying is true then why Uthman have to collect them.All he got to do is get one quaresh reciter and wrote down the quran..By the way Uthman quran was lost..You got the Warsh and Hafs quran of 1924. No one know who wrote it ( maybe the Egyptians)..And dont have the original..bless you..
40:00 if he said that Quran is copied from that text book, then why dont he said that Books is copied from Vedas Hinduism that older than all that Books, funny Claim bro, dont using Double Standart bro, he dont said Torah and Bible copied from Veda, but he said Quran copied from Torah, Midras, Fake Bible and Pagan Story, why dont he give alternative hypothesis that story is coming from One Source but corrupted in each times and places 🤣🤣🤣🤣
He didn't talk about the sources for the torah/Bible because this video is for the Quran. He has videos on those other topics, and believe me he spares no point of saying the Bible comes from mythological legends like zoroastrianism
@MuslimsMinds the Old Testament was written by the HEAVENLY CREATOR him self on stones & given to Moses. And If you guys would have read it for your self you would not incorrectly stated that 8:11. The NEW TESTAMENT was written by men as you’ll just stated the Quran was as well
18:00 has the Collyridians in the Muslim section, but they are rejected by both Christians and Muslims. They were not Christian or Muslim. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collyridianism
The Psuedo Gospel of Matthew simply just comes around 600 years after the original Gospel of Matthew that is why it is called the Pseudo Gospel of Matthew no it is not true it is by a completely different Author than the Gospel of Matthew was
The guy in Useful Charts already said in the beginning of the video that Quran must have been from Human sources or it’s a compilation of stories etc, so there’s already a conclusion derived beforehand. Then suggestions, ideas and evidences are built up around the already preconceived conclusion. So these ideas, evidences are easily refutable and at times honestly don’t make sense!
The guy making the video focus way to much of the Qur'an the mushaf instead of the Quran the recitation. Make sense since his video is who "wrote" the Qur'an.
You should watch Christian prince, rob Christian, sam shamoun, David wood, Adam seeker, ex Muslim sameer, ex Muslim sahil, ex Muslim ahmad, Robert Spencer, Anthony rogers, hatun tash ,jai apologetics
@@MuslimMindsUS Because he probably wants you to give counter arguments? Still, imo id stay out of the Muslim vs Christian apologist war, it only damages both sides.
You should listen to Shaikh Uthman, Dr. Zakir Naik, Muhammad Hijab, ex-Christian Yusuf Estes, ex-Christian Yusha Evans, ex-Christian Hamza's Deen, ex-Christian Bilal Philips, ex-Christian Khalid Yasin, ex-Christian Abdul-Raheem Green, ex-Christian Yusuf Chambers, brother Hashim, brother Mansur, brother Adnan Rashid, brother Ali Dawah, and many more to learn about Islam properly & get eternal salvation.
@@MuslimMindsUS the bible says do not commit adultery but your god says he has fixed the portion of adultery a man will commit in sahih Muslim 2657b ? Can you explain why your god says that he has fixed the portion of adultery a man will commit? So if a Muslim man rapes a woman then it is Allah fault because he has fixed the portion of adultery that he will commit. So there should be no punishment to him because it is Allah who is causing the man to do adultery. Your god is a god of lust that's why he gave zaynab to Muhammad when Muhammad lusted after zaynab seeing her .your god even abolished adoption which is such a loving practice. Your god is unholy.
@@MuslimMindsUS why did Muhammad couldn't control his sexual desires when he saw a beautiful woman that he had to go his house to stop zaynab from her work and to have sex with her .he also said that a woman comes in the form of a devil and goes in the form of a devil. Why does the greatest prophet in human history couldn't control his sexual desires that he had to run to wife zaynab after lusting after a woman ? Is this is the greatest prophet ever who doesn't have self control?see sahih Muslim 3407
