I see this a lot in Dubai. Some of the fastest guys I've seen are the GT86 drivers who have learnt how to steer on track with only 200hp and have either developed their car or moved onto something faster. It's always a gut punch when you get passed like you're standing still though lol
That’s how I started, BRZ with 200 hp, and I use to pass McLaren’s with their rear wings moving up and down. Makes you wonder then a $30K car passes a $300K car on track.
What a great commentary. So many people, including myself, cannot drive a really powerful car at the limit. Adding a lot of downforce makes this scenario even more obvious. The amount of track time you need to get comfortable with downforce is staggering and as you say, requires quite the set of balls to trust it's there on a windy day. Great vid. Stellar and accurate points from someone who DRIVES their car and has real-world experience.
Thanks, glad you agree. I bet a lot of folks who bought way beyond their abilities later regretted it, especially after being passed on track by a lessor car.
Good narrative. I’ve been driving a 2004 Boxster at autocross this season, rather than my much more powerful track car. Definitely forces sharpening driving skills in the mix of GT cars and other more muscular competition at the PCA meet I attend.
I love it. I remember when I raced dirt bikes all the dudes with cash had the Ricky racer hot set ups. It was always satisfying to lap them. Yes - occasionally there was talent that went with the best kit - and it made a fast pairing of bike and rider - but usually it was more money than ability.
very true what you are saying about momentum cars being great platforms to build skills and confidence. I think think everyone should start with a miata and work their way up
Fantastic video! Love hearing your feedback on the other GT cars in the lineup while getting to see some great footage of your laps at COTA. GT2RS is still a dream for me after having a brief experience driving one in Vegas. My gears are turning on how I can make a track day happen at COTA sooner rather than later. 😁
All you need are a good set of pads, modestly performant tires, and performance brake fluid. PCA provides the instructors and you won't be going that fast to begin with.
Agree. The 991 RS is the sweet spot. The 2RS is a crazy ball breaker and scary. 992 RS is where you go when you’ve mastered the 991 RS. That may be never for most people 😂
Exactly. Most folks will never be able to exploit a fraction of a modern RS's potential on track. It kills me when I see someone driving one of these to the grocery store.
As usual, spot on. The average weekend warrior has no clue how to use 2000 pounds of downforce and doesn’t trust it. Hence you rolling right by cars with much more downforce than a GT4RS has. The driver matters. When I didn’t have much track experience, I could drive my 991 Turbo S faster than any other car I would get in around the track because it put down the power so seamlessly and so confidently that you always felt like the car was on rails. Even though it’s really not the best track Porsche out there, to a less experienced track driver it inspired trust. Porsche offers a course on how to drive the 992 GT3RS on track. It is run by Manthey Racing in Europe for Porsche Track Experiences and is called “Master GT3RS.” Three days of track time exclusively focused on how to properly drive the car and exploit its performance. Probably a great idea for lesser or medium skilled drivers who own the car or want it and who intend to track it and want to get the most out of it.
That would be a fun class to take and Manthey are the right people to teach it. If you talk to people that drive Radicals they say there is a window where the car isn't going fast enough to produce heavy down force so it spins but if you turn your brain off and just push through it the down force kicks in and you begin to stick again. Very counterintuitive - You are spinning into the wall? Oh just ignore that and drive faster.
@@ItsTrackTimefirst time I experienced high levels of downforce was at NOLA entering the back esses. Drove a few out laps and as I picked up pace the car felt unsettled. Pit in and the engineer told me “you need to enter and maintain through the esses with about 30mph more speed and you’ll be good.” I thought he was crazy, there’s really nothing to hit there with the exception of some nasty grass/track transitions so I said “ok, well if I bin it, it’s on you.” I did it and it felt so much better. It’s a hard thing to wrap your head around.
Yikes, at my advanced age I don't know how well I would do at putting my "brain in my back pocket". I would do better with a car that has way too much downforce, build confidence, and then back some out to improve top speed on the straights.
Good stuff. You should have more subs. Very relatable "everyday man" (or maybe "real world enthusiast") insights and observations. Meaty, substantial information, w/o being so "pro-level" that you need talent of the Gods to relate.
Glad you are enjoying them! To run at COTA you just have to pay the entry fee to an organization that rents the track and follow their rules. I prefer to run with PCA and Chin because they both test the drivers so when you get in the upper run groups everyone is sane. Other organizations just ask "how many track days have you done?" and "what are your lap times?", then based on those two answers they place you in a run group. Typically this creates chaos given not everyone is honest especially when there is ego involved. So choose the organizations you give your $$$ to wisely.
So if one takes your advice and starts with a light weight momentum car on the track, to learn how to drive and handle the vehicle really well before building up to vehicles with more HP and greater down force, what would you say does the roll of transmission play ? For instance, would you say it’s also beneficial to learn how to drive a manual on the track very well, even though eventually moving up to higher performance cars virtually all will be standard dual clutch, pdk, etc ? (Like from GT4 to GT3, GT4RS, GT3RS). I love driving manual on the street but not sure if I need to be learning how to drive on the track in a manual and should get a track specific car with a PDK or otherwise from the start.
It's much easier to drive a PDK on track than a manual but every car I have, except the 4RS, is a manual. I started on track with a manual and if the 4RS offered a manual I would have purchased it. You won't be as fast with a manual but you will feel a lot more connected to the car.
I think I heard somewhere that 991 engine have reliability issues? Not sure it was .1 or .2. But great video nonetheless, is going for a cayman gts a good first move? GT4 is just a bit out of reach.
Yes, the original 991.1 GT3 had engine issues so Porsche replaced the engines and provided an extended warranty for free. I'm unaware of any 991.2 engine issues.
Question: have you heard of any feedback from drivers tracking manuals? Is the PDK just superior in every way? I’d like to option a gt3 in a manual but track it at least 4 times a year -I live far from any track.
Every track car I own, except the GT4 RS, is a manual. If I could have optioned it I would have. You may not be as fast with a manual but you will be way more connected to the machine, and in my opinion enjoy the experience more. Enjoy them while you still can!
So how crazy would it be for me to learn to drive on track with a GT4 RS? I own/ed faster cars but have zero track experience. I’m afraid if I don’t grab one now it will appreciate a ton and/or they will be hard to get after they are discontinued in 2025
Buy the 4RS now and put it away in a garage. Then spend $30K on a BRZ and learn how to drive on the track. If you wad up the BRZ you're only out $30K and you can replace it. When you're comfortable with your skill set then take the 4RS out.
Yeah I tell people, putting one of these cars on the track is like owning an aircraft in terms of initial expense and ongoing maintenance. And most days at the track you see someone wad one of them up.
You've definitely inspired me to look into buying a track car I'm looking for a brz for it any suggestions on mods to make the platform work for learning on track
Cool it's working - More people are considering going to the track! I started at the track in 2012 with a 1st gen BRZ and still have it. I have lots of history with that car. The only two mods you *must* have to go to the track are upgraded brake fluid (SRF) and more aggressive brake pads. After that it's just a slippery slope...
Save yourself some money and buy a purpose built race car. It'll be cheaper and faster than current Porsche GT money. You'll probably get something with double wishbone front and back as well.
I've looked but Porsche Motorsports won't sell you a new GT4 RS Clubsport unless you race and even then you may not get one. Buying a used race car is just asking for problems.
@@ItsTrackTime I'm sorry for not being more clear. I'm talking about skipping Porsche entirely if your focus is lap times and track duty. I'm talking about an actual purpose built race car without a chassis that has road going requirements. Those vehicles don't have all the road going requirements and weigh a ton less(cheaper running costs). If the chassis is straight you're fine, you can pay someone very little money to rewire them because there aren't a lot of electronics. If you're shy about buying a used race car, you could always buy an Atom 4 for around 100k. You'll get double wishbone front and back and I'm sure it's faster than a GT4 RS and quite a bit cheaper to purchase, run and maintain. Of course if you want a Porsche, then buy a Porsche, I don't see any issue with that but there are much cheaper ways to go fast around a track.
Ah, yes this is true. I have studied some of these and would consider them if there was a large community with a solid knowledge base in my area. Most of these alternatives put you on an island where you have to debug issues yourself or with remote resources. I don't want to lose track time over a simple issue that I can't diagnose and fix. At least with Porsche you have a huge community and a dealership in every town.
