"why does zelda need two lightning kicks" this killed me. this opened my third eye and killed me. why DOES she need two lightning kicks? comparing her to falcon was a very good example, i think if she had a quicker forward air like Paluenta (like you said) she would kinda..... be fixed. also- HUGE advocate to those knight buffs you mentioned, especially it building in front of her. A quicker forward air and a bit of disjointed range on ftilt might actually make her usable, because she would actually have midrange outside nayru's love and dash attack 🙃
Arguably Zelda's biggest nerf (to me) is that she can't use nair to drag her opponents down into an elevator up-b. that was like. the ONE consistent kill confirm she had and they got rid of it 😐
People are gradually seeing that DK is actually good. Chunky has been making tons of new discoveries with him in the lab and DK players have been doing very well at locals
I was guilty of thinking he was a genuinely bad, bottom 10 character but 100% I’ve gained respect for him. Obviously nothings changed with how easily he gets combo’d and just kind of dies sometimes but I never realized how many tools he has in neutral to prevent people getting in on him. His advantage state being so oppressive makes for a solid character in most matchups minus the unwinnables
As a former Chrom main, I'm glad you are helping people see the light. Give him Roy up-B and he is top 15, better than cloud. As is he is actually so heartbreaking to play, you just die even when you barely mess up
Nah yall just need to play decent characters into Chrom and prioritize getting him offstage and gimping him. The character absolutely falls apart anywhere that isn't on stage
@@TheResidence.mp4I mean yeah when he recovers low, you can exploit him, but you’re acting like playing neutral against this character is easy in any capacity. Even with his horrible recovery, he has one of the most oppressive neutrals and oppressive advantage states. Plus, it’s not like he has zero ability to recovery depending on how he gets launched.
Honestly as time goes on, I feel Duck Hunts are getting way better at getting kills. Their ledge game is actually insane with the can, and ftilt is super good to kill most characters (about 130-ish, which is pretty good for a zoner imo imo). Also pretty much every throw becomes a kill throw with the can roaming around, or else you can do throws offstage to use the can as an easier to hit but less strong nikita. But that doesn't matter since you still have full control of both the can and the dog, and it's pretty easy to hit bair offstage after a can airdodge/attack. Also Duck Hunt has no issues on racking up damage, so he just gets rewarded for playing neutral well, some sort of a passive win condition. Duck Hunt players are getting better at using can-parry as well, so neutral is becoming even better as time goes on. Their main big weakness right now isn't kill power, but out of shield options.
@@SantanaBanana47 it's 100% worse than little Mac. At least his up b is safer from 2 frames/counters and his side b actually gives him horizontal movement.
No way Link is that low. He doesn't have good reps ATM which is the only reason he isn't way higher. His MU spread is good, especially versus the meta relevant characters. He has zoning, combos, kill confirms, lives forever with bomb recovery, and X factor (early kill potential). His problem is kinda like Peach - he has to have different gameplans for different MUs and no player seems to have that on lock. I agree his mid-range is stunted b.c. of no good burst options, but I don't think that ruins any MUs, it just means he plays neutral differently.
Yeah. Chrom's Up B makes him so bad. If only he had something like good range, great mobility, an awesome combo game and crazy kill power to back it up. Oh wait He does Chrom in bottom tier is the most baffling opinion I've ever seen for this game.
none of that matters because every character has the same gameplan against chrom and at the higher level that is NOT what you want in your character. A good player wins neutral once against chrom and that’s the stock. This character is a matchup check
idk their point about him being bottom 5 makes sense. put him against toad shield (really any counter) or star bits on the ledge and he's done. and those are just the most thoughtless ways of exploiting him. chrom is way to easy to bully.
@lightkuma9166 Chrom doesn't have the advantage State of DK though. And DKs disadvantage off stage is still better. A lot of characters can't go off stage to edeguard DK (which is pretty necessary), but pretty much every character has a way of guarding the ledge, which beats Chrom. On top of that, if I do go off stage to Edgeduard DK and miss, DK has amazing tools for reversing the edgeduard situation/edgeguarding me now that I'm off stage.
Really big thank you for actually taking the time to really talk your thoughts about every single character. For example I loved your thoughts about Lucas.
Chrom as a solo main is terrible, but he has some really good matchups against characters that can’t edge guard him that well (granted that’s not that many characters). Decent counterpick imo
I play lucas and I kinda Agre with the stuff you sade but I think he sude be hier upp but baste off what you know about him i think this plasmint is fare
Mewtwo is *BIG.* Being light doesn't mean you cant do well: ZSS, Bayo, Rosalina, Fox, G&W, and soon Shiek/Sora are relevant. However tournaments have room for consistent weighty wins: Yoshi. Megaman. Rob. Inciniroar. Trainer. etc
Maybe it's a scrub take but I don't think that Chrom deserves to be in bottom tier with Doc, Ganon, and Mac. His recovery is as exploitable as the rest (arguably more), but his advantage is also significantly better. He has better combo starters, better combo extenders, safer kill confirms, better overall frame data, etc. etc. Pythra and Cloud both have fairly exploitable recoveries, but that doesn't stop them from being high-top tier. I think Chrom is somewhere around lacking-ok (low-mid), because at the least he can rack up damage and kill fairly consistently.
Cloud & Pythra have actual aerial acceleration, both of their up-bs snap to ledge, they have ways to stall/alternative ways to recover, and Cloud also has Up-b. They also both have good edgeguard tools, Chrom can't really go off stage without risking death. And Chrom arguable might have as good a neutral as Cloud (Pythra's neutral is definitely better), but Cloud having limit makes his game plan easier and gives him a strong win condition if the opponent doesn't approach. Those two are just much better characters overall, with recoveries that still aren't as exploitable as Chrom... I disagree on bottom 5 though lol
@@thecapitalisticdictator2256 I think the snapping to ledge is the main thing. Cloud I think is the better overall comparison to Chrom. They both have safe aerials with reasonable disjoint, they both have good grounded tools, they both have exploitable recoveries (though Cloud's is significantly better because his snaps to ledge, and his air acceleration is decent), and they both mostly just jump and wall you out with safe aerials.. But Cloud's recovery is still pretty mediocre overall, and he's still considered a top tier. Chrom isn't necessarily good, but I don't think he's bottom 5 or even bottom 10.
@aab1254 I think it's fair to consider Chrom outside of bottom 10. However I don't think it's an accurate comparison to say they both have reasonable disjoints. Cloud's sword is definitely much larger and reaches farther than Chrom, which is significant in this meta. Not to mention the overall safety of Cloud's aerials, especially Bair. The extra length coupled with the way better drift just makes Cloud so much better at the spacing aerial game than Chrom, which is probably why there is such a gap in meta viability between Chrom & Cloud.
Link would definitely be higher on everyone's tier list if more representation. He does have the tools to make it into high tier. The problem is that he has such a high skill ceiling with his techs and bomb loop combos, which are required in order to do exceptionally well with him. And yeah, I do agree with MuteAce on the fact that he lacks a burst option with his DA being his Jump Attack instead being something akin to Young Link's DA. It would've been so much better if Link had Ylink's DA as it's similar to the his one-handed sword DA that he uses in BOTW & TOTK.
Personally, i think Isabelle’s damage output is quiet better than villager due to jab combos, villager can not true combo into anything with his jab, this is crucial to them since both characters focus on setup to get that jab lock to kill, Isabelle on the other hand can jab lock into usmash uair, at certain percents she can weak nair wobelle (20 hit jab combo) into a down smash and if you can’t do it consistently you can go for jab down smash instead for a kill confirm. Villagers uair and dair are rng while Isabelle’s will always be 2 turnips. When it comes to pocket Isabelle can combo certain items from jab, although it doesn’t guarantee ur winning the match up it’s better than just having anvil and randomly throwing it. This can also be shown in results with Jaka making top 8’s and the Isabelle who won kowloon, there’s a reason why we haven’t seen a villager win anything past a C tier 🤷♂️
I completely agree. if it weren't for her roll isabelle would be a lot less scary to pick up. and while i don't think she'd be, like, S tier or even A tier she'd be USABLE. Plus, besides what was mentioned in the video already, isabelle would be fantastic if her smash attacks and nair had more range. She can't really do anything midrange because her hitbox sizes are so polarizing. like.... her up smash is just a very bad version of palutena's. (also if gyroid didn't freaking explode when attacked? what the heck is the purpose of that?)
Ridley's best meta relevant match-ups are Cloud/Kazuya/Min-Min and hes decent enough against Steve/Aegis/Peach/G&W, especially surprising for his archetype. He does fine into the other meta swordies and is dead even with or beats the other FGC's. He really struggles against characters that either don't let him get in like zoners (R.O.B, Duck Hunt, Samus) or characters that are really hard to keep in disadvantage such as Yoshi, Snake or Palutena. Ridley is just missing a few things that keep him stuck in low mid tier hell but never sleep on him.
Isabelle - Short-ranged fishing rod should he a real command grab - Balloon up-b should leave you actionable afterward like Snake/Olimar - Her fair/bair need higher priority. They lose to like everything. - Taking like 20%+ from getting lloyd trap destroyed next to you is ass - Give her more range on her f-smash. You can see little bits of confetti flying over your opponent. At least make it tickle them for 1% and interrupt them
Or just making isabelles (and villagers by proxy) normal grab not such massive ass. Why does a grab the size of greninjas take as long as samus grab but is active the normal frames of a grab?
@@hunbi1875 Maining Isabelle has really made me terrible at grabbing on everyone else because I'm conditioned to not use it too much due to how slow it is lol
Mewtwo is so much fun, shadow ball and disable are so good and his damage output is ridiculous. Tail hurt box is more annoying then bad but his weight is what really keeps him low on tier list. Tons of characters with really good burst options I feel like I'm at kill percent at 80!
It's not him being light but the combination of big and light. Notice alot of the anti meta/meta characters that actually have wins(including on best)are light. ZSS, Bayo, Rosalina, Fox, G&W...probably so on. Light is fine now. Its the big thats theproblem. He's stil better then people think though.
Ike would be so much better if he had his 1.0 NAIR with his current kit. . . Nerfing him in hindsight was such a dumb move, but folks were really complaining about NAIR > UAIR killing at 90% (like that’s an unreasonable kill percent) Also, Ike’s up smash was buffed, jab was buffed, and FAIR has less ending lag, DTILT combos into BAIR, FAIR, and UAIR way easier Back hit NAIR still connects into UAIR at high percents, but the timing is still pretty tight All in all, Ike’s just the middest of mids, and that makes me sad :(
As a Chrom main I couldn’t agree more with the placement. I do not know why I chose to persist in a meta where the entire cast gets to shit on my character for free. The exhilaration of piloting Chrom and landing those combo strings is completely mitigated by the constant presence of a bad matchup. The hours of practice that I have invested into this character have proven futile.
I've had a hate boner for chrom since release and was saying he is this bad for so long and for some reason it makes me super happy that more and more people put him this low haha
I don't see why that would be the case. He can actually combo G&W to some extent, he has a sword which is always good news against this character and dimensional cap helps you avoid the ledgetrapping(obviously you have to be careful about how you use that move).
Respect the Lucario thoughts because I also believe that about him and I Lol at the fox dieing at 30% back air 😂 so true, also he has 2 frames like F tilt and Dair and Aura sphere for recoveries like fox
Thank you for acknowledging that Chrom is absolute dog scud. I like playing Chrom so much more than Roy but the inability to double jump or edgeguard is crippling. Also this is the best tier list video for scrolling through casually that I've seen, nice job.
@@numbers4092 They are tricky, especially Snake. Mario's main thing in the MU is that he has very short range and doesn't kill well DDD unless you die from fair/upair combos, he also is very stubby so DDD's disjoints help a lot. I would still say Mario wins but very slightly and we have seen Atomsk beating DarkWizzy, for example. Snake's mu has to be played very specifically when it comes to grenade setups (DDD wins a lot of trades because he is heavier, Inhale reflect is actually useful against Snake in some instances like upsmash or even some type of grenade throws), ledgetrapping him isn't good because of the Cypher but we have a lot of ways to punish the high recovery (Of course while being mindful of the C4 and b reverses), and we can box with Snake reasonably well. Also the Nikita barely helps vs DDD because we just armor it. It doesn't seem to be an easy MU at first because Snake has a lot of setups that need to be learned and plays his own game (You can't play vs a good Snake with no mu exp and expect to win) but we do have good answers vs what he does.
@Mattroid99 Not to mention those disjoints if spaced right (especially uair) don't get affected by grenade pull like other characters might. Combine that with some good dmg from throws and you have a character that's deceptively good at playing around grenade pull.
For the record, the lucas zair is double jump and z at the same time on your third airborne frame. Less and you get a “snakedash”, which is a movement tool with no hitbox
good thing more people see Falcon as the Mid tier he is. People used to put as a high tier based on some clips where he cheesed some stocks, but realistically, there is a reason nobody plays him or has done consistently good with him. Nowadayd the only good players are Jogibu and Sean.
You must understand something about pro players , they claim to know alot but forget to know a character fully they need to invest a large amount of time to fully " know " a character. In this case muteace didn't even mention breegal blaster which is a top 15 move in the game. Still shocks me how tier list are still being discussed even though they are wrong most of the time with time passing . This same person claimed banjo was trash , then went to Japan and lost to a banjo . He then makes a video and forgets breegal blaster and cancels and banjo is a character that keeps you guessing with breegal blaster and down b traps. Alot of ignorance by muteace and its consistency is admirable.
Just because he lost to a Banjo doesn't mean the character is good He has really good moves, Banjo's main issue has always been his damage output which is embarassing. Works so hard to get 30% when most good characters do 50/60% or straight up murdrer you from one mistake
@Mattroid99 this is such a weak argument similar to sheik and Marth. Banjo and Kazooie are precision characters that need full understanding since they are problem solving characters. They don't have a problem to create for others to solve they need to figure out counter strategies to create new game plans that can be used for many other characters. This is a big deal because it shows banjo and kazooies potential is versatility and how Good there normals are, if muteace had it figured out he shouldn't of lost so easily . This shows that the character has a high skill ceiling and high technical executions, that being said Toriguri wasn't even using breegal alot nor breegal cancels, in a sense tori guri was playing banjo like T played link , very fundamental which shows how good these characters are since they are beating top players and with only fundies . Ppl complain about steve not even being fully optimized, wait till link , banjo and Kazooie, sora, sheik, young link, and duckhunt get optimized. So many hard characters yet to be seen, if amsa took a decade to show the melee community how good yoshi really was then i assume and be correct in saying it may take longer for ultimate. Ppl really need to ignore top players opinions about hard characters they don't understand. Mute being a peach player would be kinda annoyed if a lucina main tells him that peach is easy just throw turnips. The problem with the smash community and why these pro players get away with such ignorant takes is due to how low the skill level is on average across the community. Japan has a superior on average community in smash therefore they won against many NA and Europe players.
@shari2383 TG makes it into 2 top 8 in Japan majors and still the recognition for the character is low . The amount of hate is quite worrisome and makes sense from the smash community. Now hear this part out , muteace got very bad placements in Japan tournaments while TG not only beat him convincingly but also managed to get into 2 top 8 in Japan majors. This is pure toxic smash culture with childlike mentalities, smash Bros ultimate could've been a big esports for future generations with potential to make money similar to other esports and strategic games like chess but the smash community couldn't stop being immature and the ppl leading them are players like mute Ace who simply complain , complain and spew false info for a brand or create content. Due to this I quit smash and after ignoring alot of it I come to mutes vods and still see the same problem. The smash community is still drowning on its own feces and many love the environment for what it is, truly despairing for the future of smash if there is one.
The chrom placement is wild to me i get the recovery thing but his overall disadvantage state is actually mad good cause of his air speed he gets to disengage alot of scenarios just like roy along with jump forward neutral air dodge bringing you basically back to mid stage you are definitely significantly downplaying his strengths
His air acceleration, however, definitely doesn’t help him in disadvantage. If he picks one direction to go, he can’t just go the other way as a mix up. With that said, Chrom in bottom 5 is insane.
@@iceypoo8790 he has side B reverse which isn’t that laggy can help mixup along with double jump but it still can be limiting but not straight up guaranteed death a lot of the times
I think KO punch should've used the star system, so it would function closer to waft. I feel like they tried to restrict his ability to combo into this 1-hit KO move, so his regular kit sucks as a result.
Oh no I saw Muteace's tier list from a month ago and it was bad, this is gonna be fun. Put Palu, Roy, and PT in the same tier as ice climbers and fricken rosalina and aren't even in the top 30. Around 20 SPOTS below Bayo who is apparently top 15 and this seems to be the same list. Yep, Bayo is in the same tier as Aegis, Kazuya, Joker, Cloud, Fox, Peach, and more.
I feel some of the placements are up for debate, though I suppose tier placements are generally based off of personal experience. I feel like chars like Meta Knight, Wii Fit and Marth are underrated, and as a long-time Zelda main, if she’s played correctly, can contest with some of the better characters.
Even as a Zelda main he makes a good point, why does she need two lightning kicks? I feel if one of them were replaced it would help her pressure and air game.
