My ego is still hurt... | Learning Finnish with Duolingo 

I'm finnish. In my opinion your 'koirat etsivät lelua' was correct. You are correct, we do not specify if they are looking for specific toy or just a toy. You could deduce that from context, but in this there was none. EDIT: If it was 'koirat etsivät leluaan' you would know dogs are looking for specific toy that they have.

3:23 Technically "Kuka on tuo" is the same as "Kuka tuo on". Order of words in Finnish is not that important (most of the time), but sometimes things just sound bit clumsy.

"Missä on vesi" and "Missä vesi on" I think both should be accepted.

"The dogs are looking for a toy" should have been correct for sure. You need context to know whether it's definite or indefinite.

Duolingo releases Finish Courses *Every Nightwish fan:*

"The dogs are looking for a toy" is exactly how I would've done it. I can't think of any context where that sounds like "the toy". "Koirat etsivät leluaan" or "Koirat etsivät sitä lelua" would've made it more explicit, but as you said, that's how the language is. Source: I'm a native Finnish speaker. Enjoy learning!

Hyvä Elvann. Ymmärrät ja puhut loistavasti suomea. I would have made almost all the same wrong choices though I'm a Finn. I see Duolingo is not perfect. It would be really nice to watch this kind of learning videos more often. Continue them please.

Yea it seems pretty unfair since there isn't really a way to tell if it's a definite or indefinite word, especially in an exercise like this. No articles nor suffixes to indicate it's a specific one :/

Holy s... your pronunciation is good! I mean REALLY good! And you did great otherwise too. Oh, and you're correct about those "the" situations. There was no way to tell if it was a certain toy or not (other than why would those dogs look for a random toy for example, but then again a stick is a toy if you ask them =D ).

I'm Finnish but even i can't get full points. Finnish language has so many different word orders. Examples: mikä toi on? Onks toi mikä? Mikä on toi? All of these are fluent Finnish. :D Edit: and that's why Finnish is somethimes very hard to me. The fluent speaker. :D

This is super interesting to watch as a Finn! Like the Hilla one, I've never thought that people could see it as "Hi has something". But I guess it's obvious for fluent speakers because I don't think we have names with two letters only

In the future i will write all my comments in Finnish.😅

Tässä - here, really close. Usually so close you could touch it Tuolla - there, pretty close. Usually you can see and point. Siellä - there, some where where you can't see.

"Kuka on tuo?" is actually proper Finnish, the order of the words is quite flexible in Finnish.

You speak Finnish very well 😯😍😍

Hello from Canada! 😊 I actually "Finnished" (sorry, couldn't resist) the whole course this morning. 😅 I've already been studying Finnish for a few years with FinnishPod101, so I used Duolingo to challenge myself. Overall I'd say it's good, but it does have a few bugs. My main issue is that it seems extremely picky with word order/choice when translating into English (meaning that if there are multiple ways to say whatever it is in English, it will only accept one of them. None of the other courses I have on Duolingo are like that.). I definitely flipped off my computer a few times when the course didn't allow certain answers.

You been learning pretty fast, thats impressive! Proud of you! :)

This is great, thank you for posting! I'm taking the course now in preparation for moving to Finland later this year. It's great to see a community of Finnish language learners (we're such a great little sub-culture!) and how we all go through the experience.

Your Finnish pronouciation is sooo good! You really master the pronounciation value of each Finnish letter! It is usually very difficult especially for English speakers. I know some English speakers who have lived in Finland for ages, and their Finnish pronounciation and grammar skills are still quite poor compared to yours. It is so easy to get along with English in Finland. A person who comes to Finland and doesn't know English can learn Finnish quite well in about one year, because he/she has to, to get along. This video was fun to watch! I was looking for Nightwish reaction videos, and found this. Nice surprise! Terveisiä täältä Kalliosta!

I agree with you on the Koirat etsivät lelua. It’s obviously more vague in meaning. If Finns were talking about a specific toy they’d say something like ”Koirat etsivät leluaan” (their dog) or even ”sitä lelua”. And if we’re meaning that the dogs were looking for AND found the toy it’d be ”Koirat etsivät lelun(sa)”. Duolingo messed this one up. Great video btw!

Totally loved learning Finnish with you 😃 yes I shouted at the TV and everything 😂.. Would definitely love more of you doing these.

I really like your pronunciation. It sounds so clear yet exotic. Hienosti suoriuduttu!

Really liked this video! I really like languages, and it was fun to see you doing that test. I just knew one Finnish word before this, so KIITOS to you :)

You are doing so well! Pekka seems to be a good teacher 😉

Im amazed how natural your finnish pronouciation is! Very good!!

Very enjoyable Elvann 👍

Really awesome video. You're great at finnish!

The word order in Finnish is pretty flexible tbh, plus the fact that spoken finnish is often much more lax than "book finnish" (kirjakieli, it's how "proper" finnish was referred to in my schools). Even with getting the word order wrong every now and then, in a conversation a finn will probably understand what you meant anyway. Oh, and about the "Koirat etsivät lelua", honestly I would have accepted either "a toy" or "the toy" because we didn't get proper context to know if they were looking for any toy or a specific one.

Yay for language content ! I've been learning Japanese for a couple months now so I know the struggles! :D Finnish is a fascinating language too, I live in Sweden so it has always been there as "background noise" kind of (There are some radio and TV broadcasts here done in Finnish, but of course I can't understand a word hehe !)

I'm Finnish and I'm 100% with you in these answers! You know Finnish so well that I salute to you very much! ^__^

12:55 pala means piece but yes, aamupala, välipala and iltapala are meals. I guess they are less formal/organized meals than aamiainen and illallinen. en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/aamupala You have good basic Finnish skills already and excellent pronounciation. Would be nice to see more these kind of videos in the future.

Yeah, great video !! I also tried learning finnish on my own last year, but since I also started playing guitar, it was too hard to keep on practicing both, so I had to to give up finnish (for a while) :-( But I can see have still have some memories remaining in my mind :-) I love the way that language sounds !! I really have to go back to it as soon as I can... and btw, I know I'm just a french guy not knowing finnish, but from what I hear, it seems your pronunciation is quite good !!

Nice to see you learning Finnish, way to go :) Do some Finnish metal reaction videos once in a while ;)

3:15 why is that wrong? It is perfectly understandable. I mean yes, the “Kuka tuo on?” is more used but still. Your “Kuka on tuo?” And also “Tuo kuka on?” could be used, especially in songs.

Hey you did really well!! Respect! Olet melkein suomalainen!

When I used Duolingo I noticed that whenever it adds new content it relies heavily on users to report sentences that should've been correct. In this case all those "wrong word orders" should've been correct and I imagine after a month or two they will be, once they've been reported enough.

This was very funny, liked and enjoyed. And you did it very well! Also your Finnish pronunciation is good! I guess soon you could sing something in Finnish?

Love this! You are so adorable. I dated a Finnish girl many years ago, and learned how to count in Finnish, and how to say "I love you." That was about it. But it's such a unique language that I still remember every word I learned.

Very nice Elvann! I agree with you on the "lelu/toy" bit, it would depend on the context if it's "a toy" in general or a very specific toy. In writing the toy would've been needed to be referenced earlier. And lacking context here, I would've answered the same as you. Very nice pronunciation too! Onnea opiskeluun, olet jo pitkällä! 👌

I'm so glad I found this video, I periodically check Duolingo to see if it has added Finnish as a language. I only checked it a couple of weeks ago, so likely would not have checked again for several weeks or even months. Thanks a lot x

To pronounce that perfectly is a proof of your musical ear.

"Pala" indeed means "a piece". But it also functions as the the suffix (I think that's the correct word) for at least these: - "iltapala" (evening snack, literally: "evening piece") - "aamupala" (breakfast, literally: "morning piece" - välipala (snack, literally "middle piece") I just thought of something silly. If you are putting together a jigsaw puzzle ('palapeli', literally: 'piece game'), and you had a piece missing from between two others, that would also be "välipala". Here's something you have all probably heard several times already. 'Kuusi palaa' can mean the following: - Six pieces - The six will burn - Six will burn - SIx are burning - A six will burn (sounds nonsensical, but if a physical number six were to burn, this would be correct) -The / a spruce returns -The / a spruce is returning - The / a spruce will return - The / a spruce burns - The / a spruce is burning - The / a spruce will burn - Your moon is burning - Your moon burns - Your moon will burn - Your moon returns - Your moon is returning - Your moon will return I think I got them all in that list..

This was really entertaining actually! And thank you for translating the words as I don't know Finnish apart from "perkele". :P

Your Finnish pronunciation sound very good and when there is something wrong you hear it yourself. It's very good with two years on and off studying. Your only have a little trouble with word order and conjugation, but still... VERY GOOD. 9/10 from me. 👌

Aika hyvä taso 👍🏻 Ääntäminen kuulostaa myös hyvältä!

Looks like the Duolingo course is quite rough at the edges. Finnish word order is quite fluid and you could for sure hear both "Missä vesi on?" and "Missä on vesi?". They have a slight difference in tone but could be used interchangeably. Also, you can find "Kuka on tuo?" in a poetic context or someone could even say that probably with a stress on *tuo* usually meaning they're seeing something strange or unexpected. You were correct about the "Koirat etsivät lelua." They're looking for a nonspecific toy. If you'd need to specify it further you'd need to say "Koirat etsivät leluaan." -> they're looking for their toy, or "Koirat etsivät sitä lelua." -> they're looking for a previously mentioned toy.

This was fun to watch :) - I can relate to trying to learn a language that is far removed from your native tongue (AFAIK Suomi is in a language group on its own and besides using the same alphabet as French/English won't have much in common). I'm trying to learn Mandarin as a Dutch guy, but I'm nowhere near the level of your Finnish, if I'd done the Chinese version of this test, I would have gotten only the 1st one LOL. I'm also living in Australia, so not exposed to Mandarin on a daily basis like you would with Finnish, living over there.

Wow that was fun 😅🔥 Finnish isnt an easy language to learn 🇫🇮 but you got skills and a competitive will to learn. I can tell 😎 and welcome to Finland! 🔥

When you first asked "are you hot?' I must state that yes, you are! Beyond that, this is a good intro to Finnish!

I instantly clicked because I thought this video will be sooooo relatable! I've been reaching out to duolingo for a while, I studied Swedish on there and asked whether they could add Finnish and they finally did wohooo 🙌🏻 it is quite frustrating though, there are nearly no Finnish teachers out there and learning only with apps always turns to be out kinda complicated 😂 I love the Finnish language, though it is quite difficult! But it's always fun to make progress :) According to the latest Nuclear Blast newsletter "Kalsarikännit" is the word when you stay at home and get drunk in your underwear without wanting to leave the house, too hilarious 😂 Learning languages is always an up and down! Enjoyed watching this video! I'll definitely get on duolingo now to learn some more Finnish 😂🙌🏻 🇫🇮

You do that very well! Hyvin tehty ja toivottavasti viihdyt Suomessa . I hope at you like to be here!

First video I’ve watched, I really liked it. I’m trying to learn Finnish and I hope Duolingo helps.

I think you were actually correct every time! The word order in Finnish could change, and Finnish doesn't have the definite and indefinite articles that English has and there's no way of detecting which one is meant here, so both should be accepted (and tbh I thought your answer made more sense because the toy wasn't mentioned before). Keep reporting so that Duolingo learns from you! :) I found you through this video, but I'm subscribing for your singing and harp playing as well as more Finnish language videos! Please :)

Hey, I'm also from Québec, learning Finnish with Duolingo. I hope to maybe move to Finland in a few years :)

Very good Elvann ❤️❤️❤️ and yeah, choosing "a" over "the" was not wrong. The 2nd "the" error was no longer related to Finnish grammar, Duolingo should combine "the" & "tango" -> "the tango" if they think it's that important

I only know some names of things, a few simple phrases, merry Christmas and some cuss words, but not enough to have a conversation. My grandparents were from Finland( I only knew g-ma on my dad's side)my parents spoke both English and finnish. My sister's granddaughter is in college majoring in Spanish. Right now, she is teaching Spanish on-line at college. She went to Spain a couple years ago with a classmate, but didn't really enjoy it- long story. But she really enjoys spanish and teaching it.

Oooh I'm so exited about this! I don't know if I'll ever learn how to roll my R's but damn... I'm so stubborn I don't think I'd ever want to stop trying. At least I have to learn to read Finnish and understand it when it's spoken. Darn that Nightwish for making me a want it so much though! xD

Elvann i love you

To be fair, I think people can talk the Finnish language fairly "badly" and still get understood by most locals. At any rate, you pronounce the words very well. It's mostly your rhythm and intonation that aren't quite there, but really your Finnish is more "correct" than in some regional dialects so I wouldn't worry about it too much. And when in doubt, you need more alcohol. Drink as long as doubts remain, that should fix just about any problem or at least render you immune to caring. Onnea ja menestystä! Muista olla armollinen itseäsi kohtaan, koska kukaan muu ei ole. :)

I agree with you about the "koirat etsivät lelua" sentence. I think you got it right because there's nothing that points to a certain toy that they're looking for. You're very good in Finnish for a foreigner who has lived only a one year here :) Hienoa, jatka samaan malliin ;D

Top 10 most useful Finnish Duolingo phrases: 1. Harmaa velho kävelee metsässä vai onko hän valkoinen velho. 2. Tämä ranskalainen bändi svengaa kuin hirvi. 3. Morsian on nainen ja sulhanen on siili. 4. Nämä Viikingit asuvat Oslossa ja nuo velhot asuvat jossain Suomessa. 5. Minä puhun kieltä, jota metsät ja suot puhuvat. 6. Minulla on ystävä jolla on lahjakas velho 7. Voi ei, oopperatalo on tuolla ja isä laulaa taas 8. Osaavatko karhut puhua venäjää? 9. Prinsessa ei ole tässä linnassa 10. Purossa on vaarallinen käärme

Its fun to see u make really great efffort to learn finnish. Its a really hard language to use. Im finnish and some words are even to me difficult to say :)

I am from Lebanon 🇱🇧 and I am learning Finnish 🇫🇮 🇱🇧 💝 🇫🇮

"In finnish there's no way to refer to something specifc like 'the'" - there is. It's called context :) You are right, it wasn't a fair question, because determining whether to use a definite or indefinite article depends on whether or not the said toy has been defined in previous conversation. But since there is no previous conversation, there is no way to determine which article to use.

Very nice and funny video, keep them coming :-)

Technically, "kuka on tuo"(and also "missä on vesi") is not wrong. It can be used in certain situations and has a different nuance, but "Kuka tuo on" is indeed the natural way of asking "who is that" Not sure why "koirat etsivät lelua" is wrong since your logic is sound. The sentence is indeed nonspecific and could be translated as "a" or "the". Since Finnish doesn't have articles these kinda sentences can be tricky without context. I suppose the idea is that you wouldn't really say a sentence like "the dogs are looking for a (random) toy" and that they are looking for a specific toy is just much more logical. For example "vakava suomalainen mies..." could be "a serious man...", again depends on the context. Sentence structure and context is what makes the Finnish "a" or "the" :D example: Ulkona on auto -> There is a car outside Auto on ulkona -> The car is outside

Finnish is so different and beautiful. I can't recognize any words

Since you like good music (Nightwish for example) listen to Erja Lyytinen live stream for free today at 6pm or 18.00 hours. She is playing on the roof of a 16 storey building in Kuopio, where she is originally from. She is a marvellous blues guitarist, or guitarist in general. Voted as one of the very best in the world. On Erja Lyytinen Facebook site this evening!

Hi Elvann, that was funny also, I think a lot of us react like you when we are pretty sure about the meaning of a word and then you are told (by the app n this case) that you might be wrin... =).. now I can see a bit of how difficult is the finish language... See you in the next one!!!

"Missä on vesi" is perfectly normal and doesn't even sound clumsy. Should been right enough. Maybe, if said in a right tone of voice, more demanding than the suggested order because it allows putting more weight on the verb, but that'd be so tiny difference there are probably finns who can't imagine what I talk about until they hear both versions said in a certain tone. Normal tone however, you'd easily hear that in average familys dinner table and no one would bat an eye.

kitos and koskettimet (Tuomas) were the first things I looked up. Then the lyrics of Oi Jouluyö. At least now I know that Finnish maan is not the same as dutch maan :)

Definitely a couple of wonky answer alternatives so far, and I'm only at the "Koirat etsivät lelua". You were short changed!

"The dogs are looking for A/THE toy" can be either one too.

Have you considered reading Aku Ankka in Finnish? There's a lot of vocabulary placed in clear context. If you read more Beagle Boys, you'll learn so many synonyms for stealing and the police.

I am responding to an old video. Of course it was Duolingo's mistake that the dogs were looking for a toy wasn't accepted. Duolingo has sometimes errors and in the actual exercises users can report then and improve the service. There's also a discussion board for each sentence for situations like these.

This was funny! Congratulations! You did this test very well. The couple of faults that you did were quite an arguable ones, i think too. Hienoa, kohta voidaan jutella todella syvällisiä suomeksi. 😉😵😮

Bravo elvann good video 👍😍

Hi Elvann, I think you already subscribed to Floor's channel but to be sure 😜: Watch how Floor Jansen is spending her time on Saturday the 27th of June: BUILDING & WORKING (Storytime #2) - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-q8_kHu4pwH0.html

I'm actually shocked that you're not Finnish. My life was a lie 🤣🤣 Fun video by the way, I liked it!

Olet hyvä Suomessa👏👏

I like these videos

They should accept more word orders, because Finnish rarely has just one possibility - doesn't come any example to my mind: multiple choices are the rule! They should just show in the answer, explanation, which is the most typical and neutral sentence - showing if your version was a secondary option, and that you emphasized some word. The word order rules are anyway secondary level after the basic sentences. TIP: In a Finnish sentence, the FIRST and LAST words are the ones you EMphasize. For example, your word order 'mistakes' (not really mistakes) didn't make your sentences wrong - they just meant you emphasized the word you put last. Like Kuka on tuo? = (No, no) Who is (...) THAT? (as opposed to some other options, maybe like you want to underline some-one not expected, or you think people don't get who you're talking about) The same with Missä on vesi? = Where's (THAT/THE) WATER? The same with a/the. They should accept both answers in that Koirat etsivät lelua. That partitive is best translated with the verb this time, like: (The) dogs are looking for a/the toy. The incompleteness of the work is in English expressed with the verbal structure - in Finnish it's marked in the object: you could think like the object is where you concretely see the process most typically is finished, or isn't. Now, it's maybe not happening is this sentence, but if you take like eating an apple - you can see from the apple, is it eaten (for all practical purposes - which are subjective, depending on the speaker), or not. täällä - siellä - tuolla or the basic division of the core words: tämä - se - tuo Finnish divides the space of this & that (and here & there) to 3 dimensions, so it's not a dichotomy only, where 'I' is the only center (I + this, here etc. vs. you, it etc. + that, there) You can remember the division by visualizing that in Finnish the LISTENER is considered EQUAL WITH the SPEAKER. So, picture the speaker in a circle, for being important, then picture the listener in another circle, being as important. Any word that has a version linked to 'me, the # 1', has a variant for 'you, # 2'. Or we & you all. If there is 'this' (tämä) - there is 'that (with you)' (se). Se means it in the basic idea, but it is extended to mean that with you in Finnish - because very often, maybe mostly, that it is under the influence of 'you'. Or so often it is, that in Finnish it has the role of 'that with you; it'. Then tuo means something not in my or your control 'that (over there)', and it needs to be pointed out: it's either visible or audible, or it's close in the direction which is pointed. Once it's known by 'you', it's referred to as it (se) - because now you know it. It's at least mentally in your possession. That's why also things which are not visible are usually referred with se, because if you know about it, it's that way in your control, as opposed to this in my or our control. Then if you can visualize these 3, do the same with the locations täällä - siellä - tuolla: you can see from which words they were each made of. If not, I put them in the corresponding order above :) Pala primarily means 'piece', it's used in the names of meals as an extension. Notice that they are all small meals: aamupala breakfast: Finns don't usually eat a big breakfast, because the stomach hasn't woken up yet :) You can't stuff there a steak. A full meal, like perhaps in a hotel, is called aamiainen. Iltapala, supper - it's small at home, because Finns usually eat well during lunch & dinner: there's no 'pala' version of them. If you go eating out, having a full meal for the supper, then it's called illallinen. The meal names are normally adjectives, because they came from the idea of 'daily/daytime meal' = 'dinner' - päivällinen (ateria/ruoka). Notice that a snack is välipala - 'piece between'; and if you need to eat at night, like people in night shifts, then the meal is yöpala - because at night our body tries to rest, even if we are up. So you can't stuff yourself as during lunch or dinner times: you'll normally eat a smaller meal at night, when one is needed. PS. Lisää and liikaa are not related :) the basic forms lisä & liika just happen to resemble each other. But so do bagage et baguette...

I'm propably not the first or last finn who says this : but you pronounce finnish extremely well. Most of the time it's like listening to a native speaker

I'm a native speaker of finnish.. I really wanted to try dualingos finnish to see how good it is. I started from the beginning (it was a bit weird) and then decided to go for the final level test... and I failed it (level 4 is the highest level at the moment).... :D

Pala is actually a piece. Never a meal. "pala" in aamupala or iltapala is like "piece of morning snack" sort of. This was interesting to watch! You pronounce Finnish really well!

Nice surprise. Thanks.

I'm Finnish and I did the placement test and I didn't get all correct, it seemed to have quite a few mistakes. At this point it's probably better for learning vocabulary than grammar. You did really well!

Pretty interesting

also im finish to and that "who is that?" you can say it "Kuka on tuo" or "Kuka tuo on" its mean same but your test probably ask word whit "literary language"

I am also a French Canadian and this language seemed very foreign and difficult for me, so I feel your pain. Plus Floor herself admitted that of all the languages she speaks, and there are many, that Finnish was the hardest and I quote her 'I'm Sounding Like A Three-Year-Old'. 😉

I agree with the other people here in the comments: very impressed with the pronunciation!

To a question like, "are you hot", English answer would be "yes (I am)". Verb can be dropped. But the finnish answer should be with the verb! Onko sinulla kuuma. "(kyllä,) On (minulla kuuma)." Yes can be dropped, rest of he sentence is not necessary to repeat. Oletko tulossa? - Olen. Syötkö pitsaa? - Syön. Tuletko sinä? - Tulen. These kind of questions can be answered by "joo/kyllä", but the answer can also just be the verb, and it still strongly imply that "yes, I am coming/eating etc.)

If there's No particular thing bringing a focus into an object then there's no extra word.. so that would be an "a" word... The means pretty much "tietty". Like if you're looking for a Doctor you're just looking for any doctor.. But then if you're looking for the doctor you're looking for a certain doctor, like your personal doctor or a doctor who just treated someone you know. So in my opinion the dog thing was correct.

I'm a native speaker and took the placement test for fun when this course came out. I unlocked I think 63 percent of the course (I made one mistake, also because there wasn't enough context) so getting to over 30 I think is great!

I like this, I would like to know more the meaning of each word that you choose and the ordering

Hehe, juhuslik Eesti kommentar Soome keelega seotud videos. Gj and Gl with learning Finnish! :)=

I've used duolingo a bit myself which made this all the more fun to watch. It was really interesting to see how you as an advanced learner deal with and reason about the options when you're lacking just a little bit of vocabulary for the question. Mikä tuo on - mikä on tuo, funny you made the same mistake twice but let's be honest you simply wanted to make it sound like grandiose theater on purpose didn't you ;)

On the "Who is that?", what you chose wasn't incorrect, really, just a bit unusual. The more typical word order would be "Kuka tuo on?", but "Kuka on tuo?" is still grammatically correct. Finnish is a language where multiple word orders are grammatically correct. You might see a word order like "Kuka on tuo?" in a poem, or a song lyric, to help rhyming, or to sound more.... poetic. 😊

I do think your answer to the dog toy question should've been accepted, even though I think "the" was more correct

Seriously! I have discovered Duolingo a few days ago too...wow