My Favorite OSR RPG? 

Nothing wrong with liking 4e, its different than other editions but still an ok game.

I started with a mixture of BX and AD&D Back in 1979. In those days we weren’t necessarily scrupulous about respecting the differences between the games, if we even understood them! When I tried to engage later additions I did notice that combat took an extraordinarily long time in the most recent versions of the game. It seems to me feats and additional classes have tried to codify things that we simply used to work out between player and DM. In my view the result has been unnecessarily and unpleasantly drawn out combat sequences and astonishing rules bloat.

@@SkHATEy Agreed. Very tired of 4E bashing, especially from people who boast about never having played it. It wasn't the best RPG every made but it was far from the worst. Its successor 13th Age showed that the 4E designers knew where the weak points were and (mostly) corrected them while adding some great new ideas, many of which are well worth cribbing for other game engines.

Good for you, Tom! My wife is on the younger side as well; 4e was her first version of D&D. Her favorite version of the game is Swords & Wizardry White Box, i.e. a clone of 0e. She also enjoyed 4e, which she has described as "analog World of Warcraft" (her favorite video game)... but she likes OSR games the most because of the speed, flexibility and simplicity.

@@aaronsomerville2124 Honestly 4e may have been the best possible entry point for me as someone with a purely video game background and no knowledge or understanding of what D&D even was. It absolutely had its strengths and weaknesses. Combat could get horrendously long at times and the character sheets were like tax forms, but man, we still had the definitive RPG experience of all-nighters in the basement throwing dice, laughing, cheering, and eating lots of snacks! I'm glad I've found other games that work better for me as a GM, tho :)

DCC is most definetly OSR. OSR is not exclusive to retroclones

Dungeon Crawl Classics takes the seven classes from Moldvay Cook BX and enhances them.

I tend to agree with you, Voom. 3e and Pathfinder were awesome for players with the amount of buildout that could be done with feats and skills. I ran a very enjoyable and successful Pathfinder campaign where the most enjoyable part was mapping out the PCs progressions but building NPCs and BBEGs got to be tedious thanks to the sheer volume of possibilities, and a bad build could get your boss baddie handled quickly despite your efforts. I returned to a 1/2e campaign run due to the ease of building and setup and for a less structured system for PC advancement. I pour my time and attention into more compelling storylines, unique magic items, and interesting and engaging locations.

I am with you. Builds annoy me. I'd rather hear about your character's edgy backgroud .

tbh, I think races are more important than new subclasses because say you're playing OSR, you have to homebrew to get ideas like a changeling bard, however I do like feats from the angle of "here's some mechanics so you can be a damn good cook and apply that to the story" also definitely feels like Wizards is just afraid to update things which is sad, to me the system should be a few core classes (maybe some subclass to show specialization but going with no subclass is both viable and encouraged), race, background and a single feat and origin, feat being something you did or were known for, origin is how you can do what you do example: you can have an elf warrior scholar who has an unearthly anger issues and is a damn good cook the race-class-background is obvious but the anger would give you a rage ability rather than something like formal training giving something like a precision blow, and your culinary skills makes a feat everything there being to drive a narrative

I grew up as an 11 year old back in 1978 with the 3 little brown books then switched to the first three AD&D books , the 1st edition players handbook , the monster manual and the Dungeon Masters guide . When we first started creating characters we didn't have elaborate backstories for our character because we knew they were nobodies looking to make a name for themselves by adventuring and our campaign was what ever setting the DM ( me lol ) created . Now the players have to have backstories that th3 DM must include in his campaign is long drawn out adventure where everything has to be tied together into one giant adventure with a major boss battle at the end . I hate that mmo terms is used for d&d today in everything from classes is the tank to all the over powered feat combos. Players no longer play their characters they play the character sheet looking for the best combo to use in any given situation . The use of imagination is just about null and void with this version of a generic fantasy superhero rpg named d&d . It doesn't have the same feel as it was original intended but now feels like a cheap far to easy version if the game . I play a hybrid of 1st & 2nd edition AD&D with house rules for things I want in my campaign setting like new class abilities , new races and the addition of more levels based on ability scores . I did steal 3.0s experience chart of all classes and how it handles multi classes . Level limits for non human races are modified based on ability scores 10 with each point past 10 giving a bonus of +1 level so an elf with a 16 intelligence would add +6 levels to the level limit of the magic user class and I did bump the minimum level for all non human races up to level 10 minimum . I'm also using the skills and powers book and have only 4 classes in my game , fighter , magic user , Cleric and thife but have combined the class abilities from each class with its root class so all fighter , Paladin and Ranger class abilities are open for the fighter class so players can customize their character class . I did keep the race class restriction such as no dwarves magic users and no Halfling magic users along with ability score min/max for the races and humans now get a +1 to one if their ability scores based on their culture so a human from a desert culture would get a+1 to constitution while a hunan from a city culture would get a +1 to intelligence it makes more giving the races bonuses based on their race and/or culture then just giving everyone a flat +2 to any ability they want

Sounds interesting. Have to give it a look!

Yeah, Stars Without Number is awesome. I'm not as enthused by Worlds Without Number but I think I need to give it another look. But SWN is basically exactly what I wanted from a Sci Fi game.

Scarlet Heroes cant be beat for heroic 1-on-1 or soloplay.

@@captcorajus Crawford's stuff is at "Just put down what you're doing and look at this!" level. He gives a GM some of the best tools you'll find anywhere, useful in almost ANY system. And spend a little time with his faction system. It's amazingly useful.

Yes, yes, when I ran it we used the Mana point system and that was awesome.

Isn't that always the biggest problem?

@@captcorajus You know what? The only game that I've been able to absolutely get my fill of lately, is Scarlet Heroes. It's the best way to play solo OSR games.

Yes, indeed!

definitely have to give it a look.

I really love Hyperborea, but DCC is definitely a close second. It does have a TON of content making it very attractive. The best part is, that we all have these choices. Its great!

Agreed, although I've moved on from 4E to 13th Age for the most part. Times I miss the more positional combat of the former, but overall I find the tweaks that the former 4E designers made in 13th Age improved gameplay quite a bit - particularly the escalation die mechanics and the backgrounding-as-skills and One Unique Thing aspects of character creation.

Lol.. Basic Fantasy?

@@captcorajus never seen a basic fantasy RPG book with the word "Expert" on it though :-)

@@cb-nz Ha ha.. well, I downloaded all the add-ons off their website, compiled in a book and made my own cover.

Agreed, I don't see the appeal in tomb of horrors, at all. Similar group, 2nd edition, for just over 3 decades. Still my preferred edition with an unequaled amount of material published for it.

I agree with you. Striving to become a hero is fundamentally different from starting as a superhero. That different starting point significantly changes the nature of the game.

This all day.

The potential to *become* a superhero, though, I always thought that was a lot of fun. The idea of "name level" in BECMI/ (for me) D&D, where you take on new and bigger roles in the world. (Quite possibly it doesn't actually *work* that well on higher levels, though, we never got past the expert set more or less, and we didn't know anyone who did). I think one thing that generation of old D&D got right over AD&D, was having some character roles start at that level. Things like a paladin, for instance: are you really all that similar to a knight of the round table, just starting out at level 1? Or even that "good"! Even alignments, at least the good/evil part of it, I see more of an ambition than a character trait at level 1. You haven't actually done anything grand deserving of being called good or evil yet. Overdefining your character before having played it I think is one of the things old school steers clear of.

I do think there’s something to be said for specialized fighters starting as regular fighters then advancing, at least it’s a reasonable argument. However, since you mentioned Knights of the Roundtable, I think the tale of Percival refutes some of your argument. He certainly did not start as a noble/knight. however, he most certainly did start as a paladin from the very beginning. There is a mechanical problem with the B/X approach in that if you really have to wait until level nine to become a paladin, well frankly, by that point many characters are retiring. How about a simple compromise and put it at level two or three before you specialize?

@@johnscotto5045 That depends on how you see a paladin, of course... I think you can't really be a paladin until you're knighted and recognized as a champion of knightly virtues (i.e, invited to join king Arthur at the round table). You can be a saintly young squire before that, but it's not necessary. By what the D&D rules suggest (especially BECMI, but also its immediate predecessors) the game isn't *supposed* to be over by level 9, but yeah, I agree it seems like a big challenge to keep things interesting and balanced for the players. I believe one of the few things Rules Cyclopedia actually changed, was capping the damage for fireball at 20d6, because if not, any wizard could one-shot any other wizard regardless of level and saving throw beyond a certain point. Like, had that JUST occurred to them? It's very, very clear that answers to such questions as "how many hit points should players get per level?" or "how much damage should this spell do?" or "what should playing a priest be like in the Planescape campaign setting?" were not exactly arrived at from extensive playtesting, and you're probably right that most people retired around level 9! But the promise of that long progression, from unknowns to heroes, to superheroes and legends and even to immortals, I think is too cool to give up entirely.

Lol... Awesome description! Glad you enjoyed it!

Same!

Yeah, I'm looking at White Box at the moment myself. :)

@@captcorajus White Box is great, sure you'll have fun with that, and would be nice to see a review from you on it.

@@hoogmonster Yes, I'm enjoying the read, and yes, I'll definitely be reviewing it in the next few weeks!

As far as the OSR games, AS&SH is the only one I actually play. I have the major ones on my shelf, and many others in PDF, but as I have the original games (OD&D, BX, and 1e AD&D), and have no trouble finding players, I just roll with the original games. The greatest benefit I've personally enjoyed via the OSR is AS&SH, and some darn good adventures published by XRP (anything by Keith Sloan is not only truly authentic old-school AD&D from a guy who has been doing it for 40+ years - and leverages that experience, rather than being stuck in 1980 - but simply good adventures). As an aside, for the Leiber fans out there, I've run several one-shots using AS&SH, set in Lankhmar. I simply toss out the spell casters altogether, with the exception of the Ledgerdemainist, whom I give a scroll or two to (no doubt obtained from a dubious source, Mouser style). The full HD of healing overnight helps, but like the Twain, players must pick their fights carefully, with a premium on skullduggery and subterfuge.

OMG Yes!

This. In spades!

I never played it if you are open to running a game over discord I'll play

I have it and used to run it for a face-to-face group for a while.

5e is more about fulfilling a power fantasy for many players. And for some, a narrative fantasy too. They'd be horrified at the death rates. It's possible to play 5e in a more brutal fashion, but with many groups it probably wouldn't be popular, and you certainly have to ignore the encounter building advice they give!

I think there's room for serious wounds to happen after hit points run out, as long as low-level healing magic/prayers don't make them vanish. If instead of 'cure light wounds' you have the equivalent of a monster or nos energy drink, and hit points are damage-avoidance. Haven't seen any OSR games really take this route, though.

@@albertnorman4136 2nd edition actually has a specific injury mechanic that work quite well. I just don't see the point to go to OSR since it offers less than the original materials. I can understand why for OD&D before BECMI and 1st edition, they were a mess.

@@craigtucker1290, do you mean the Combat and Tactics system?

@@albertnorman4136 PO:C&T and PO:S&M, yes. Been using that system for decades. Some of the injuries could end up becoming permanent, including partial paralysis, ruined/missing limbs, and possible reduced stats.

OSE Is awesome and the advanced options add in additional player choice, and for those coming from new editions, you can even invert the ACs.. so yeah, OSE is a great OSR Choice.

@@captcorajus 100% that was the biggest praise from my players, they were worried that the old school rules were going to be confusing, but they picked it up so well! Some of them even went with the THAC0 chart and thought it was cool, but went back to ascending AC. 😂

For my subs who've been with me for a while, probably weren't too surprised. Like I said it was my SUBS that kept hounding me to check out the game. I love you guys and gals!

Shadow of the Demon Lord is a great system. Simple d20-like dark fantasy, but with the added benefit of class/role customization while leveling, a bit reminiscent of WFRP but more straightforward.

Try S&W White Box + White Box Gothic + S&W White Star + Star Sailors for White Star + S&W Alice Class + White Lies for S&W = Mad Gonzo

Nah, I think I'm good. There are too many things about old style dnd that I've moved on from. I don't need a dnd retro clone.

Totally agree! OSE is great for its to the point detail and presentation. AS&SH is simply amazing for the setting, and the way the classes and rules have been integrated to go with it.

Old School Essentials is also definitely my favorite as well though I've rewrriten it and don't play it raw at all anymore a d streamlined the wonky rules, most rolls are made on a d20 roll over DC for talents against ability modifier, adding advantage and disadvantage plus some other thing, it totally works and doesn't break the game and works perfectly with all existing B/X modules. Speaking of which if you're playing OSE you don't need more modules because there is almost 50 years of material compatible with the rules set

It is absolutely hilarious. I might have to break out my '4E Hackmaster' books and do a review on them.

This is the first OSR game.

Awww.. that sucks.

I humbly beg to differ. Oe D&D 8th Lvl Fighter is capable of auto killing a dragon.

Gary did not call an 8th Level Fighter a Super Hero for nothing.

I feel like it's more of a tonal preference more than anything. You can run a OD&D game set in a bleak and grimdark world, but unless the combats are deadly enough that the characters can't get high enough to have powerful magic or hit like a freight train with their weapons, eventually the Superhero power creep will come in and what would normally be deadly for an rookie crew would be a walk in the park for higher level characters (though this superhero power and status is well earned if the characters have survived long enough).

@@MrRourk Can you explain that to me? A F8 in 0e hits 1/round for 1-6 damage. How does that auto kill a dragon?

@@aaronsomerville2124 first off 8 man rank at 8th level 8 attacks. Each attack 8d6. What did you think the 2man, 3man, 4man rankings meant in the Men and Magic Book?

S&W allows a DM to pretty much slay a 1st level party with sleep... lol. But yeah, I like it too.

Understandable. DCC is a bit much for me, even though I like it.

The Complete Strategist is the best game shop in the Northeast. Pretty sure it's still there. My group & I used to take Metro North down just to go to The Complete Strategist. We wouldn't do much else, we'd check out the store & head back upstate.

Fair enough! But for me, its only been about a year since I discovered it. After that I didn't get to actually play it.... and THEN it moved into my spot. :)

It is! It offers a lot more in the way of player choice, and there's a lot more in the way of combat tactics, but not overly so IMHO. Still very basic and simple, but a bit more complexity and crunch. It hits the sweet spot for me. :)

I LOVE DCC. Their module are amazing, I agree. As you know, I'm a big fan of Swords and Wizardry. Thanks!

The player's manuals have indexes. So MAAAAAAYBE.

I too like the Basic D&D style of attribute modifiers, but this is a 1E clone and that's just not how 1E did it, so I think that's why OSRICs are the way they are.

That's so cool! Let me know how it goes. My players all came from 5E and they love it!

Awesome. That was the reason I did the video, was to provide a general overview for the OSR.

17 minutes!

That's right! If you like them, just ADD them back in!

Yeah, I would have totally done up a beholder but beholder images are trademarked/ copywrited. So I can't. lol

You're right!