As former member who had similar experience, I think you hit alot of great points in your video. I bought the book, and several of the courses he sells. Also attended the HF1 course stateside 6 years ago. Great system for general population, but I didn't answer the questions of elite athletes consistently. I was banned because of a question I asked of them, and defending someone who wasn't officially with function patterns, but did tag FP in his videos. I wish them well, thankful for what I learned, but now use it as part of a system instead of the entire system.
I never attended HF1, because I kept seeing Naudi ban people. Also hated how everyone was so into Jack Kruse until Naudi changed his mind and then Jack was the enemy.
Thank you so much, Tim. I concur very much with your take on all of this. And thank you for all the insights & help you regularly offer. Rope flow & Mr. Weck's methodology have given me back my legs after a lifetime of high-impact sports/dance followed by many years of sitting/driving as a touring musician. My only wish for this video is that it will eventually get a million Likes.
Wow! First time ever commenting on a video, here I was anticipating having my suspicions confirmed about FP just for my personal enjoyment and you drop this truth bomb about soul mechanics trumping bio mechanics 🤯 and then you self reflect on not doing the work yourself!! Damnnn…that’s some real s**t..thanx for the honesty and humility man love your work 💪🏾
This is a great breakdown. I was in FP for five years from 2014 thru 2019, and gained a lot out of it, both mentally and physically. It certainly has its limitations, however. With regards to the jumping aspect, let's just say when I was in Hawaii partaking of the HBS1 course, of the four members in my group, none of them had any idea of how to jump. Me having a history of playing basketball and mastering the jumpshot as a little kid, knew all about it. They also have no idea how to throw. Johnny, Naudi's right hand man, had NO CLUE how to throw a ball when a baseball player from europe was showing him how to throw after most had left the facility for the day during the course. I was still there since my group of four paid 35 dollars to use the float tanks that he had. Throwing is one of their biggest human evolutionary movements they claim, so that was my red flag for sure. how could you claim you perfect such movements, if you can't emulate it on a basic level. lots of good, but like all religions, at the end of the day, it's still a religion that will close you off from deeper truths.
So you pay thousands of dollars to attend a course to learn from specialists and you take the word of a "baseball player from Europe" who also paid to attend??? Johnny has no clue how to throw. lol. Cope harder, bro. If you don't want to do FP, it's all good. But why drag someone's name through the mud when you obviously don't understand their work? Also, fp doesn't claim throwing to be one of the biggest evolutionary movements; science does.
I am also amazed that they claim being able to sprint is the ultimate achievement in FP (hence the treadmill running before and after FP) but still I cannot see they showing a single world class sprinter using FP. I can only see boxing and grappling. Not a single person from athletics coming forward with their results.
Really Appreciate your perspective TIm. Loved your rope flow course as well. I went through a similar experience with FP years ago. Initially it definitely taught me some great tools and knowledge about biomechanics and gave me some TEMPORARY relief from pain. That said, it didn't last, and I began to feel hyper-aware, hyper-fixated about my biomechanics and posture. I got very deconditioned and found myself in pain again, especially anytime I had to do any yard work like shovelings, weeding, gardening etc. Years later, understanding and exploring the bio-psycho-social model as it pertains to pain has been absolutely crucial. SO many don't realize the Psycho-somatic, social, spiritual, elements influence pain.
Went through a similar process of becoming deconditioned during 2.5yrs of FP (did HBS1). There are useful principles but for my self what was lacking was how I program / implement all that knowledge. I just felt like I did random exercises all the time without real progression. Now using MovMed, things from FP and other Biomech methods to actually build up capacity for athletic movement.
@@becktops Its fairly odd that I would respond to a comment this fast, but I just saw this notification. First of all I'm sure the methodology of FP has evolved and changed considerably since I was involved, but here is my explanation. 1. FP taught me to be hype fixated on certain mechanics, at the time this involved cueing a totally flat spine in nearly all movements (which in reality a flat spine is a hyperextended t spine and a flexed lumbar spine) I have good control over my body and tried to maintain this position in all movements I did, not to mention cueing retracting the navel, trying to feel glutes fire in a certain way and avoid quads working too much. This hyperfixation in this posture led to me trying to maintain these positions in all that I did, in training and outside the gym which led to very low intensity and low volume workouts, low work capacity because whenever these mechanics faltered it mean the end of the set. Then when life demanded I adopt positions other than these arbitrary "good mechanics" such as gardening I was totaly ill equipt, deconditioned, and had a fear response to rounding my back. The FP approach is backwards on so many levels IMO, first of all their definition of optimal mechanics is completely arbitrary from the get go. But even if we were to assume there ARE ideal biomechanics, upon stuyding ecological dynamics theory, you will find that by trying to use too much consious thought to change your biomechanics you completely impede your ability to perform and react to stimuli in the moment, its counter productive to efficiencty, counter productive to entering a flow state, counter productive to high end performance, and counter productive to reducing muscle tension during every day life. We don't want to live a life hyperfixated on our biomechanics all the time, its exhausing and leads to more fear and a fragility mindset.
Love the discussion here. FP definitely does a lot of Lateral Line (Vertical work as you called it) training. Nervous System Work (Trauma Work) has been the biggest revelation I had this year. It’s such a big piece in health and often overlooked because it’s fucking scary to face some things of yourself. A lot of people in the fitness space and generally on social media are passing on their Trauma to their followers packaged as their world view and how everybody „should“ live. More acceptance, understanding and love would go a long way 🍀
@@johncillo88 I can recommend Irene Lyons Course Smart Body Smart Mind which goes into the somatic part of trauma and also Jordan Thorntons RU-vid Channel where he has long lists of books that go into all different types of psychology which help you understand yourself/your problems better. That and therapy of course. Somatic Experiencing or Craniosacral for more somatic work. A Depth Psychologist really helped me during learning all this other stuff from books and courses. Trauma doesnt have to be being sexually abused etc. It can also just be chronic stress over time, as a child, during work etc. Plus the stories you tell yourself / were told about the world. And much more. Hope this was helpful :)
I rarely watch RU-vid videos or even comment but this was a great video and helped me so much!! Thank you so much for sharing your insights. I’ve been intrigued by functional patterns but something about the system doesn’t sit right with me even though their results seem very promising. I’ve been into the movement training and love it but always seek out more ways to help my clients and myself so I was curious about it. I did buy the 10-week course last year but I didn’t fully engage in it and don’t remember much now. Love what you said about “just because you agree with the problem doesn’t means that the solution is right” (something like that lol) but it really resonated.
Great content! I deeply appreciate how you share your experiences, addressing both the positives and negatives in a respectful manner. In our current society, we need more people like you who communicate their experiences as thoughtfully and respectfully as you do. Additionally, I agree that trauma work is indeed underrepresented in the fitness industry.
Thank you Tim with this video , eapically the powerful ending. I’m from Taiwan where FP is huge here with fear marketing to get people at tensions. I hope I can translate your video into Chinese and spread your concepts and experiences here. But I like to ask you first.
Huge respect and appreciation for coach Tim. His insights, perspectives, honesty, communications skills, relatability, level-headedness, and generosity are spot on. Many thanks.
Thanks for the breakdown, once I did the program I understood why he takes the stance he does with other systems and not being too inclusive, which didn’t rub me off well when I first saw FP content. I was vegan for many years, and ran my body into the ground. Also spent ridiculous money on different systems that always helped a bit, but never got me to the other side. It was a ring around that was horrible and I don’t wish to happen to anyone. The basic 10 week program did what doctors couldn’t do for me and got me out of pain. Everyone is on their journey though so they’ll need to take things and do what’s right for them wherever they’re at. Although once I got the benefit I see why his approach works all the way through and long term, compared to the others. It has been a blessing.
Thanks Tim, great video! It's very enjoyable to hear you talk at length about a topic that you're clearly very passionate and experienced in (biomechanics). Love from London!
Thank you for sharing your insights on these methods of fitness and your experiences through the years. You continue to develop wisdom and understanding as you go through your processes. This is so helpful for me!
I think a common misconception is that these motions that get you in different positions don’t relate to gait. I have my clients in all sorts of positions. You need to push boundaries to fortify those boundaries. Rotation is just part of it. It’s more about ratios. David week doesn’t account for how these vertical forces relate to the ratios that FP works with. There is a time to include more horizontal force, rotational force, lateral forces..etc. I was flat footed before FP and after working with the techniques it actually decompress my body to the point where I am not as flat footed. Being a football player exposed to many styles I’ve done more of applying FP principles into explosive movements. It’s bigger than the FP exercises that’s re put in a “box”. There are sheering, bending, rotational forces that need to be created within the body. In order to get a full experience FP I would recommend working with FP for more than 5 years and maybe working with several practitoners
hi tim, im from Indonesia. I was verycurious about FP, then I found your video today. And I understand how I have to be wiser before follow anything method of fitness. I love the final conclusion, it's so warm hearted
I absolutely LOVE your balanced, thoughtful and nuanced approach to this topic. I really respect your eclectic philosophy about mechanics and whole person wellness and your ability to see and appreciate the good in what FP/Naudi bring while using critical thinking and honesty when speaking about the limitations, learning and arrogance. No need to “throw the baby out with the bath water”. Thanks for sprinkling in the other methods you’ve found useful, very insightful and helpful overall!
Thank you, great video!! I have always been curious about FP… I think you made fair points. Love your work too!! ❤We are here to play for sure!! Let’s just have fun!! 🙏👏👏👏
Thank you Tim. I too went down the functional patterns rabbit hole and was and still am to an extent desperate to get back my freedom of movement. But I will say I’ve gotten much much more out of the rope than I ever did from FP. I will always be grateful to you for the knowledge you share on your channel.
I feel as though you can be told, shown, and encouraged to experience a physical dysfunction countless times, but it's only by relating to it personally that you truly acknowledge, accept and begin to work on it.
Wow you had a lot going on at the time! I am currently involved with an FP coach and am enjoying it. So right that it exhausts brain and body and I’ve found it very very helpful to have someone precisely guiding my body to the mind-muscle connection. There is no way I would get involved deeper with them because of Naudi’s attitude. I can see his insecurities a mile off. I really want to like the guy and have a lot of respect of what he’s built, but he’s on the back foot - constantly attacking everyone else and terrified of people copying him. He doesn’t seem interested in collaborating and seems very limited rather than expansive. I had a to sign an NDA when I started with this coach. Unfortunately, I feel that the fact they block anyone who doesn’t agree with them and ban people from training is such a lack mindset. It’s a shame but I guess that’s his journey. I’m sorry he wasn’t kind to you. I would recommend everyone has experience with FP with regards the movement - Something I’ve never done before and it’s been really helpful for me to get to know and move my body more.
So basically, Naudi has control over anyone passionate about movement, not allowing them to teach or share about it so he wouldn’t let them train. Big red flag for me in an organisation.
Really enjoyed listening to this, thank you Tim! Terrific and heartfelt honesty at the end. Só alegria sempre and thanks for sending out the replacement rope!
A great sharing with objective perspective. i have suffer lower back pain for several years,(i guess many people found fp becuse of pain. ) then find this system in 2020 and buy 10-w online course. After that i knew Rope flow & Mr. Weck's methodology. i agree both have their pros and cons. I have to say even a coach need a coach not just a system, if you have biomechanical issue to solve. So I go for a personal course recently, and see what happened. By the way, I really dont like the marketing fp do, using people's fear...
Hey Tim, thanks for another open and heartfelt discussion. I really enjoyed an earlier one you did that praised Justin Bieber, and I gained some great new insights from you, and by extention, Justin. I discovered ropeflow about 2 months ago when a running coach I follow introduced it as part of his regular warm-up routine, and it intrigued me. Shortly after that, I discovered David Weck and the Weck Method for the first time. That led me to discover you and Way of the Rope, and a few other practioners/teachers/coaches. Your teaching methods and approach felt so inviting. I am currently in Week 5 of your 8 Weeks to Fluidity course. It is changing my body and mind, and is so soothing to my soul. It is also changing my walking, running, and body movement in general. I eventually want to take the Weck RMT Course, but I feel that I will benefit greatly by completing a few or several of your courses first. You are such an excellent person, and a fantastic teacher and trainer. Keep it up!
It might be the first comment I leave on RU-vid, but these are my thoughts exactly! Expressed much better than I ever could, though :) It’s hard not to notice the arrogance, the dismissiveness of other disciplines and self-righteousness.. And even though I agree with many things they preach, I do regret paying so much money for HB course.. I don’t think it was worth it Also, I’m a Pilates instructor, so I’m obsessed with accurate, creative cueing, and I hoped to add something fun to my vocabulary after the course but was bitterly disappointed
Hey! It was great hearing your thoughts, I'm now really into the rope flow, honestly thanks to you brother, helps with my injuries a lot. I would like to ask if a heavier rope is better in the beginning, it feels comfortable but maybe it's not the idea behind functional patterns, stacking weight so to say. Thanks in advance!
@@Tims_Gym No I’m glad you kept it in, people need to hear what may be on their mind but can’t articulate it. I’ve subscribed as it looks as though your videos may bring what I was trying to find in FP in the first place 👌
they explain stuff about fascial release, but back pain bible, for a solide 15€, is so good and probably the best book on the toppic at whole.. short and simple and jet somehow very deep into.the sience... sometimes the right things just have to meet at the right time
Great breakdown and I disagree with you about you being arrogant, at least from what I could tell from your recent vids. The last bit you shared was quite humble. It’s crazy to me how hyper focused so many of us are with splitting hairs at the top of the biomechanics game when most people don’t even have the capacity or desire to do the most fundamental physical movements properly. I’m grateful to just be moving relatively well most days now
I would also like to say that I respect how Naudi calls other practices out when warranted. Lots of fakes online that need to be called out. Nothing wrong with that. However, Naudi ain't exempt either. LOL
Have you come across animal flow? They use contra-lateral a lot. The 'beginner' stuff is well beyond beginners (well, this beginner anyway), but it does look interesting.
What's the equivalent to 'spiritual bypassing'? "Physical bypassing?" Peter Attia in Outlive broaches the importance of emotional work - he doesn't take it very far, because he has only discovered it recently himself.
I am looking up the feather barrier mechanism as you mentioned but I cannot seem to find anything on it. Could you explore that a little more with us by any chance?
Your final thoughts are relevant to women too. There might be some different layers and unpacking, but generally issues of identity, trust, love and survival are every humans.
I’m kind of landing at similar conclusions - I think FP has a clear starting point which is really helpful. Where / how do you get started with Weck methods?
Rope Flow is a great place to start with Weck Method, or the recent Landmine and Kettlebell videos I've posted here go into the principals too. Take your pick!
Consider this Tim. Rotatory movements that are complex in nature, single leg mimicking our walking/gait with the pieces of equipment he has used are the cause of the results, not necessarily the secret sauce "patterns" much of which has been pulled out of thin air, or his own subjective good feel of doing movement. What he is attributing his success to, in other words, is not what has caused success. To simplify, the imaginatory patterns don't matter, its the novel and complex movements done under control that do. The tools (Keiser pneumatic tech, kettlebells, tornado balls, club bells) + novel movement, mobilizes and stabilizes the structure in >>different ways
@@stubenhockerbeats The patterns are your movements. You misunderstand what biomechanics are. He says he did what you claim, but there's no evidence because tensegrity is an unproven theory. So he can make up whatever movement sequences he wants and say it's programming your Chi too...no evidence means it cannot be disproven. And you keep paying him money. That's how it works. And yes, people have been harmed by FP with too complex a movement and too heavy a load, the same mechanism that injures people when they do other patterns, like squats...too complex of a movement done imporperly with too high a load. Can happen with any movement sequence.
@@Arturo_Fonseca the patterns are not my movements, the patterns are movements of the biology of the human body. tensegrity is not uproven because you can see it in bridges working and i after 2.5 years can feel the tensegrity inside of my own body. he dont decide the movements, he try to understand the mechanics and try to find the movement which helps to get back to the biology patterns the body works best. the evidence are pictures, alot of them, true examples. better than this cant be made.and I dont pay money, i got 2 session with a prac, build my own pulley and workout, the good thing is, if you understood the concept of this, you dont need to spend 1 dollar. naudi just discovered something but he not the founder. thats important to understand, he himself said this. so he observed patterns, and while he observed the patterns he understood the patterns and how they interact with each other, and then he tried to find a way to help people which have strange, uneffective patterns, to bring them back to better patterns, and then he takes MRTs to show symmetrie that occured in the body of the people. about the harm, yes fp also harms, when done wrong, but the fact that there are patterns and a biology makes complelty. sense.
@@stubenhockerbeats Movements of the human body belong to no one system. Tensegrity in the body is unproven because it has not been measured as it has been stated. Bridges are not human bodies. For one bridges don't move ;) The point I'm making is that a hypothetical is still a hypothetical. I think what most people object to is the hundreds of FP marketing before/after images that have been so obviously faked. You can feel "tensegrity" in your body. Great. Like people can feel Chi and even Morgellon's disease, and stuff like that? Amazing. I don't care about what you can feel, I care about what can be measured. We have Sports Science on the cutting edge and are making bigger, better, faster athletes and even recreational ones than ever before. Sorry, don't need to chuck spears and twirl around with kettlebells for $20,000...and yes, I've done FP. I've done a deep dive. The book itself is full of misnomers and debunked concepts like TrA activation. Old school and proven to do nothing.
@@stubenhockerbeats Bridges don't move. Human bodies do. Tensegrity in the human body cannot be measured like you say it can. We know that cells have tensegrity-like structures, but what you're referring to is force transduction through fascia. Sure, nice, but we aren't able to measure this and thus anyone can say "Hey I make your tensegrity better" and you'll have to just buy it on face value. That's why making the claims you do is false and unproven. Fact. And so what that you think you can feel anything. Some Tai Chi practitioners say they can feel energy flowing through them. Do you know how many of them tried to project their "energy" in a real fight and got knocked out by those who do actual fight work. Same thing would happen if an FP athlete went up against a competently strength trained athlete. Pick any measure and let's test it. FP will lose.
Nicr video, i've been practicing FP for nearly 1 year and i am not seeing the results to live a pain free life, what are some recomendations that u have , i really want to be able to train again , no matter what sport.
If it's functional then IMHO it should improve something the person is doing in real life. For that, it should be movements somewhat mimicking these movements. This can be different for tennis players, golfers, basketball players etcetera. For the general population most FP movements are very far away from movements in daily practice. Advice for the general population is almost not possible, but there's a great part of the population sitting throughout the day. Counteracting the slump posture comes to mind. General advice for the gym community might be do more active stretching. Channels like the one from Tom Merrick and Strenght SIde have been gold for me. It's not yoga which is a good thing for some: it's also with sets and reps and that works for the gym population. For the general population I miss crawling exercises in the FP universe. It's what kids and babies do so it's part of the normal movement patterns. We just lost it growing up. Crawling exercises are free to find, very fun to do and you will build up a sweat. You will use your muscles in collaboration, and train your balance-brain too. It can be a great warming up. For back-sciatica pain I would add foundation training exercises which have worked great for many. Also free to find and bodyweight only. 12 minutes a day only.
And btw to blame all bodily pain and dysfunction on being in the soul ….. that’s not good or helpful to people who have very real congenital structural issues. Maybe you are talking to healthy people, but many people with rare and difficult to treat diseases and issues turn to biomechanics to help gain better function. This message of healing the soul is great but don’t blame all dysfunction on this, please.
@@qedamawiessene5827 There are a lot of definitions as it is a non material construct. Plato viewed the soul as the immaterial essence of a person, which pre-exists before birth and continues to exist after death. It is the seat of reason, spirit, and desire.
Its something that is lived and sensed. Not yet able to be measured. Just like many other things that were only abstractions before they were able to be measured by science. Doesnt mean they dont exist.
Thank you Tim 🙏 Have you investigated fascial movements? I am currently doing very affordable programs with Human Garage and have started to feel improvements.
Tried HGs Programs too. Aside from the marketing language “Fascial Manuevers” it’s a great thing they are doing bringing people away from processed foods and getting them moving with a supported group.
I'm coming from Ashtanga Yoga as my main practice and I realized many years ago that just that wont make me a good sprinter, thrower, puller etc. It's pretty obvious that you should add other things to it. The yoga bashing of FP feels mostly like a marketing trick to me. If something's presented this black and white it's most certainly far away from the truth and just wants to polarize for clicks.
Yeahhhhhhhh mutha fu@#a..... tell it how it is, I love that song. People being souls, my most favorite thing. I had an experience in THIS LIFE.... Thankyou
Haven't looked too deep into them, but my thought is the exact opposite of your first con. It think they should JUST focus on there gait stuff, say they just doing gait (and some throwing) and ditch all the nonsense that they cloud it with. His instagram comments are some of the most dumb and abrasive things I have ever seen. You couldn't make that stuff up if you tried, like how he calls people sheep or just straight up answers with a sheep emoji.
I got the impression he doesn't operate in Faith. That he worships money instead. That he is well on his way to becoming a mad scientist, with a god complex, who can't see the forest through the trees.
Naudi is a cornball this goes without saying but you going into it with the mindset you did was your fault. Guess you not knowing what was wrong with your body in the first place makes me wonder your level of understanding. The benefit from FP is undeniable as it relates - - That's the beauty of the fitness space there is benefit in every system - It works as it is applied and so forth. I found it hard to listen to you as it seemed you added context-meaning that seemed outside of your own actual experiences.
The FP onboarding process reduces your human value to the base competency of your biomechanics within the context of his system. Naudi has done well at creating a soulless cult following of cronies who will forever be in a never ending loop of chasing their own dysfunction and evaluating other humans based on theirs. It's sad.
but I've seen FP get actual results with clients that no other system seems to be able to showcase at all , other systems talk but never showcase the changes in their clients
@@qedamawiessene5827 How come after searching Ive mostly come across comments/videos of dissatisfaction? If FP has changed peoples lives where all the testimonial videos? Serious question. Maybe link some please.
booo hoo hooo Tim you are just salty because you aren't as smart as Naudi and haven't created anything of your original own ever , you got rejected because you wanted to mix it up with loads of new age-ism bs and refused to be humble.
They train wrestlers and mma and boxers that can move. That type of movement is all over the place not just forward sprinting. I think you are confused on how far and where exactly FP training can go because you werent introduced to advanced FP training. Idk what Naudi told you but they used to be ok with people doing other training methods while doing FP, but the results were better and injuries and pain resolved faster and more efficiently with training FP on its own. So practitioners recommend clients explore the option thats them better faster - especially in regards to people who are in pain.
Genuine question, what does this mean: " So practitioners recommend clients explore the option thats them better faster - especially in regards to people who are in pain." ?
So Naudi banned you from paying because of some kind of negative commentary. No surprise. What is the surprise that after so many years he's still a little narcissistic whiny child.
My commentary wasn't negative at all. My read on it was though he could sense i had a personality of my own and a following and would potentially challenge or say something honest/negative in the future so he just ended it before it got that far to where it could be a bigger problem for him.
Their business practices are obnoxious. Paying a couple hundred dollars to only have access to content for a year leaves a pretty bad taste in my mouth.
Hi, I would have paid 2000 for the course had I known about it before I spent more than 20k over the last couple of years trying to get out of pain. Maybe it leaves a bad taste In your mouth but it did what doctors couldn’t do for me.
You can google there's a photo of them together. Naudi has clearly been influenced by Weck but doesn't give him any credit, he wants to take all the credit himself as if he invented training gait & throwing patterns. However methods to include gait exist in traditional Chinese martial arts training which is 1000s of years old. Naudi won't adopt rope flow as it will just point towards David Weck and he'll no longer be the Messiah he wants to be.
ah no.. weck found naughty and wanted to conect and also had a club.and asked if nauty was interested... well he took it personaly and thought weck wanted to sell him stuff weck.wanted.his knowledge and was.just offering couse why not..and that led to anwhole.seperate issue.. sorce. a weck video of the art of move podcast
Weck is terrible for making up insights and then selling it to you as a product. Like his pulsers, just wrong from a first principles analysis- it doesn't have any relevance to our biology and gait mechanics.
10 sessions back to back was not a good idea AND freely sharing his intellectual property is understandable to be banned. He doesn't freely give his information away to keep his information clear and leave less room for interpretation. I agree that your interpretation would degrade its value, you didn't even pass the first level. Taking the info down right away and apologizing would've been the right thing to do.
