There were a lot of limiting factors starting out on this install that really limit your ability to adjust things. First off was code requirement for the 6" sphere under the bottom cable, that meant my intermediate posts and bottom landing post could only be pushed up so far forward towards the nosing or the bottom cable would be too high and not pass code. Next issue was handrail height, I actually had the handrail as low as I was comfortable with meeting code, so I couldn't move my posts backward as it would drop the handrail too far or the bottom cable would hit the nosing. So I couldn't go forward, and I couldn't go backward. The posts pretty much had to be where they were at. On the top rake post I had to skip the bottom cable hole, which was fine, otherwise it would have been way back into the loft area and looked really weird with the balcony rail section. With this system you have to shift your mindset, whereas normally its best to start with your handrail height and visualize from that, you can't do that here, its your bottom cable that is the critical issue. The bottom cable has to pass code and all posts have to be in plane so that the cable passes through straight as it matches the rake angle. As long as you know your bottom cable is straight, and you will be ok with your handrail height, you have to make up for the other layout issues in your uprisings and odd return pieces like I did at the bottom. Its the only way to make it work because you are essentially locked into a 1-2" area on the tread where your posts have to be positioned in order to hit handrail height code, and 6" sphere code under the bottom cable. It is really a pain. Add to that the fact that an inspector can come along and pull the cables apart and fail you if you don't meet the 4" and 6" sphere tests, lets just say I'm not in a hurry to do cable railing systems. The other issue is OVER TENSIONING the cables which is easy to do. This can bow your posts, or break your handrail fittings from the pressure... So many layout issues, so many limitations, and so many possible code compliance problems...
I was just about to write that you couls move the newels 'up' or the intermediate posts 'down' to adjust thei height relative to the handrail, but I see what you mean about the lower cable needing to be as close to the tread nose as possible. I'm glad you didn't stick with the blocks, looked like what it was, a kludge. Nice job, you did great.
Cable rail systems look different and slick but in practice, they don't meet code. The purpose of the codes are to prevent a toddler from getting caught up in it or falling through, which these stupid cable systems never pass. All inspectors should be failing these systems outright, they just don't properly substitute vertical balusters. They are just a bad idea IMO.
I work/sell custom made stainless steel cable railing systems. Something that is going on custom stairs shouldn't have to be modified/swapped/moved around till it fits or anything else you did in your video. Let's talk soon.
100% agree..a lot of people can do what Spencer does but they don’t..but he seems to care & that’s lost anymore..I tell people all the time I’m not better than alot of carpenters I just care..your name spreads quick in this small genre..my dad always said if you can’t do it right then don’t do it at all
Thanks. This one brief comment completely changed my prospective on mistakes that I make. On Friday I made a mistake that I could probably get away with but all day Saturday I felt bad until I decided to rip it out on Monday and redo it. I will not get paid Monday but I now feel good!
What a nightmare, seems like you were completely screwed over by the manufacturer of the handrail kit. Good on you for having the humility to show your “mistake” and how you fixed it. The end result looks great as always. Keep up the good work!
@@keithbyrne4872 I agree with you, but the company obviously knows this is a problem and could include a little better instructions. They should include the sketch that he got after he called and they sent it. Something like this is enough to make a person use another product the next time...especially after wasting a whole day that could be fixed with a small piece of paper
If you couldn’t get it straight away, I don’t think many could , thanks for sharing this with everyone mate 👌 it’s teaching everyone to persist with these type of situations, not just handrails
I love the comment about things going so well early that you might even get cable run that day. I have been there many times over the last 40 years. Made me laugh. So true.
The final product looks great! Carpentry is all about problem solving and you sir are a master. A few months ago, I did some cable railing and what helped me avoid some of these issues was that I fabricated my own metal posts and drilled them on-site. It was a royal pain but after careful measuring and making a drilling jig, it came out nice.
“Transition” and “pivot points” are two phrases that I will carry in my toolbox from here forward, thanks to you Spencer. What a great lesson you taught me. I’ve done tons of wood stairs and railings and grappled with these concepts but only used my eye to tell me if it’s right. Now I understand the logic and geometry of it! I hope you have a prosperous and Happy New Year - Jay Dawes
Carpenter/furniture-maker/handyman here with 35 years experience. Now these are the kinds of videos I love where I can actually learn something. Thanks for having the humility to share: excellent video.
Spencer I have been doing carpentry for 33 years and interior stairs for over 15 years...I am not easily impressed. You impressed me. Great work ethic and fantastic job in the end.
Around 19:00 minutes, you do air quotes around "directions" and I almost spit out my coffee. Having punished my brain cells over the course of several installs, I absolutely feel your pain. Keep up the good work
So much Chinese stuff like that. They just give you a picture- black and white- overshadowed- can't even distinguish layers. It is the epitome of throwing you in the deep end.
They never are.....instructions are useless ....idk how many times instructions were so far off or missed steps.....they just dont put any thought into them.....only meant to be read by people who assemble that very product everyday it seems.....alot of it probably has to do with manufacturing in china.....instructions used to better years ago......if you produce a product they should have clear well laid out instructions that any journeyman or even high apprentice can read and install...... This man should not have to call the company to install this railing with his experience and skillset....just few weeks had issue with shower trim (expensive) that didn't come with right set....had to call company to get the revised set and those were wrong and was 3rd revision sent to me cpl days later....lol..... On shower trim which is pretty basic but they sure complicated the heck out of it......course like Lewis I ate cost and downtime.....and 2 veteran licensed plumbers as well
@@kirkdunn1379 Couldnt agree more. Yes; call me paranoid but I swear the assembly guides have illustrations that don't match the steps and other various missteps. Gotta have the skills to pay the bills!
The important thing is that you stuck with it, kept analyzing the situation and was willing to re-do work at possibly your expense to make it perfect. That’s an admirable and increasingly rare trait. I’ve seen too many people leave their jobs with problems with the final detail because they either can’t see that there are cosmetic or code compliance issues, or don’t care. The little time you lost on rework is nothing compared to the long term benefit of maintaining a reputation for quality work. Well done and thanks for sharing
What a skilled professional! Dude, total respect for what you did there. I knew when you said one option was to put spacers on top of the two posts it was NOT going to look good. I think you probably knew that too but it wasn't until you saw it that you decided you couldn't sign off on that. Just like another comment someone made, you are the guy everyone hopes they hire. It cost you a day of labor but saved you your reputation and expanded your knowledge and experience. GREAT WORK.
I applaud you for your tenacity and I am happy to see a lot of positive reviews from everyone. This project would eat the best of us no matter how experienced. This tutorial will save as a lot of heartache. Be blessed my friend and keep up the good work.
You know what makes any master carpenter or any master technician get better at what he or she does is To be able to fix the Mistakes he make and never be detected by the Home owner. Like creating an illusion where the eye is tricked into not seeing the finished product. Bravo my friend you just made an illusion.
I applaud you for your persistence. I've seen many people start throwing thing around and getting mad. But, you thought it out till you came up with the right conclusion. I also admire you for showing your mistake, many people would not do that because their pride would not let them. But, you learn from your mistakes. This way you show others and help others as to what to look for. Great job. Keep up the good work.
Insider Carpentry I wonder why they don’t also offer intermediate posts that are 7/8” longer. Seems like they could Give two different looks without much effort.
Just watched this. Well done for 1. spotting the issues 2. Working out what to do to correct them and 3 actually carrying out the corrections! Think how many would’ve walked away and left it incorrect. Top work from a true professional! Thanks for sharing.
I’m not a professional like you, as a diy type who does what ever is necessary to achieve your level of quality I wrestled with several flights of stairs and encountered similar issues. Stairs, to me, have been extremely difficult to figure out. We gotter done but oh how frustrating. Thanks for your honesty and sharing your learning experience. Wish there were more skilled craftsmen like you. God bless you. From Missouri.
Outstanding tutorial with that type of handrail! It was interesting to watch you discover the issue, and come up with various solutions. Kudos to you for showing the mistakes before showing the final solution. Great video!
I absolutely love that you took the time to redo it twice to get it right. Testament to your character and work ethic. I hope the homeowner appreciates the work.
Nice fix. I didnt figure out what you were saying until I saw your solution. Then I realized its just a parallelagram. Doh! The little return at the beginning sets the angles so that they match each other. Thank you for showing us, I don't want to do this mistake myself!
I am a software developer. This reminds me of what its like when using software libraries (bits of code build by someone else). Sometimes it becomes way harder then any one would ever expect. Something as simple as cable hand rails I would never have thought could be so complicated to install. Its interesting the parallels between creating software and construction work. On the surface it looks simple but under the covers it takes allot of extra work to get right.
I wish there were more builders like you who would stop and think about stuff like this. So many would have just hacked it together and left it looking like crap and shrugged their shoulders.
I completely agree, I was hired with another contractor to do finish work on upscale houses. He was a hack, I hated working with him, he would go behind me and change my work because he liked his way better, then blame me when they ask me why it looks jacked up. I caught him talking about me saying he would have done it the way I originally had it if they had let him do it to begin with. He told them he could do ship lap, that it was super easy for him. Turns out, he couldn't make outlet cutouts line up so I had to take over. He left a mess everywhere he went in those houses, tons of rework. They said they couldn't fire him because they needed him, so I quit, the company ended up getting sued. Sucks for the home owners. Now I work for myself.
During my apprenticeship over 30 years ago I was told "You'll make mistakes. That's how you learn." They were right. I made a lot of mistakes and I learned from every single one of them. You figured it out in the end and delivered a good product. Great job!
Thank you These are the kind of videos that need to be made problems we encounter and problem-solving this happens to all of us at one time or another this is a mark of a true professional transparency
Your explanation of the problem and correction is perfect as is the final completion. That hand rail company owes you big time for your work in producing the video
Well done man! That's the difference with a real tradesman, a real teacher, showing the weakness the process of improving and not pretending to know it all. Fair play
Yes my friend the dreaded "what were they thinking?" "why didn't they just say that? "Lol I would suggest the real lesson here is the integrity and determination it takes to do things right even when no one is looking. The customer trusts us. It SUCKS doing things more than once after serious planning(plus the cost is always looming). 2 or 3 times might discourage a diyer. A non pro handy man might have used some spacer blocks etc. We are the professionals. The last guys holding the line between" high quality" and"its good enough." Thank you for sharing this content. You are a good example. Keep up the great work and honesty.
30 year stair guy here. I went through the same thing last spring. Called stair rail company but I didn’t get a drawing like you. I was pissed but I made it work just like you. My big problem was I was dealing with an ornate handrail. I became a woodcarver for 2hrs fabing (sp.?) the easements.
@@cockerluver Uhg. I can't even imagine. They were initially considering aluminum handrails. I would have found a different career path if it would have been metal hand rails...
At 65 and doing finish carpentry, I had always wished I had apprenticed under an older master. But I made the mistakes myself and am still learning. Thanks for the great video and tips. As the saying goes, " Theres 10 techniques, and 10,000 tricks!" I'll keep watching. Stay busy.
Glad to see you got rid of the blocks and took the time to figure out the correct way to do it. The blocks looked like a quick fix. Now at least you can walk away knowing it's installed the way it's supposed to be. Took extra time but great job sticking to your work ethics. The final product is what you will remember in the long run.
I have to say nice work! I applaud your humility to publish a video showing your mistakes. We recently went on an install of some custom cabinets we made in our shop and I had completely bombed the measurements. It resulted in having to modify cabinets on site, pay an electrician to move an outlet, and pay a plaster contractor to repair his finish! This things happen, but hopefully not very often. Keep up the good work!
Great video! People often underestimate the skill of contractors and all the years that we dedicate to perfecting the process. In the end we aren't just Builders or craftsman, we are problem solvers that constantly have to think outside the box to solve problems on the Fly and help the next generation of builders and craftsman learn and adapt to unforeseen issues. I've been building for over 40 years and every day is still a learning day. I appreciate you taking the time to make a video showing that we aren't just great at everything all the time. 👍
There’s not a contractor, much less a DIY guy like myself that hasn’t run across these kinds of confounding situations. So glad you stuck it out and fixed it properly. It looks fantastic. Awesome work 👍🏻
I watched this nice man get beaten up by this situation and kept asking myself what company sold him this railing system without directions/explanations. You analyzed the problems as they presented themselves and kept me fascinated while it turned into a geometry problem for you. Very nice work! Then, "That, dumb little thing right there." turned out to solve everything and presto the geometric planets aligned and both sides match. Congratulations.
Hi buddy, I'm an engineering draughtsman and have designed hundreds of staircases, fire escapes etc. I always use Autocad as you can set everything out on screen and check the angles before site installation. You'd be amazed at the amount of carpenters who struggle with this kind of work, so I always provide detailed drawings which show exactly how to install them. Staircases and handrails are not as easy as people think to install and cause by far the most problems I have on site. Good video and a happy new year from England.
That was a great example of how to work through your problems on site. As a remodeling contractor that is one of the most challenging aspects. You do fine work and it looks amazing despite the challenges.
I applaud your effort. seriously. its the difference between a craftsman/artisan and your average joe who would have just left it. I wish more carpenters were like you.
Man, I’ve been through those issues all the time while learning to do that job, 1 year later, these little mistakes still happen, you won’t realize it until you’re about to finish 1 proyect and there’s something that won’t match properly , total frustration , but after the job is done and painted , is a very rewarding experience😁😁👍👍, makes you feel proud of your work
Great job sticking it out and not giving up, speaks volumes of who you are 👍💪 thank you for sharing your lessons learned so well documented, I’m doing this for the first time in my own home that I just built so we’ll see how that goes.
We have all had a project like this. Thanks for sharing it. I'm sure it will help someone down the road. The tenacity to do it right is a great trait to have. The "school of hard knocks" can be very humbling but the lessons are invaluable. Wishing you continued success...
A good carpenter never calls him self a master carpenter we can learn every day. I never hire a guy who calls him self a master carpenter or says he can do the work of two guys. Just do your best if that guy worked for me an I walked in on his first or 2nd try I would had said boy this is a pain. But can't have this. Can't get mad at people help them an be proud of what is done. Tell them great job an hug them.
Having the patience and ability to take it as a learning experience shows that you are a good tradesman. You saw it through to a proper result. Respect to you. Greetings from England
Feeling your pain. Thanks for sharing your experience. Takes a lot of patience to not only figure out the issue, but also share what you learned. You're a great teacher.
Just want to say thanks for taking the time. I’ve had similar problems. Using repurposed newel posts . No one can understand the annoyance of dealing with it . While you r in the middle of working with it .
Your determination and integrity in performing flawless work tells me you are a highly skilled craftsman. Archimedes would have been proud of you solving this problem.
Love the waterfall skirt board. Perversely, I am gratified to see that you have troubles once in a while. I have trouble all of the time. Thanks for sharing your frustrations.
I had the same issue in the past. I ended up going to the metal fab place and had them machine a couple of spacers out of the same material as the pivot bracket to compensate for the height difference since my customer didn't like the look of an "extra" miter points on the handrail.
You could see right away that the two rails were not parallel which indicated there was some problem. Kudos on your patient diligence. It came out beautiful.
Felt your pain the whole way through, well done! And man, to keep recording! - Knowing from experience what it takes to make a video, all that extra time of documenting when all you want to do in those situations is get the job done because your already in the hole...well done, thx for the video and the time it took 👍
Been there..... Thanks for sharing that, we have all been there. I knew when I saw the spacers in there you could not leave it like that. That's why you are as gifted as you are, you don't settle.
The joke around my house is that I do everything twice - once to learn how, then, tear it out and do it again without the mistakes. Very inspiring to watch you struggle with this and stick with it till it was solved. The other joke around here is "it'll just take 5 minutes" usually means the day is shot lol.
My wife calls it a learning experience. I just tell her that anything you buy anymore you have to redesign because it was usually a bad idea to begin with.
Congratulations! Solving this one is like solving a Rubiks Cube. Your expertise, persistence and craftsmanship shines brightly. You are spot on seeing that the offset of the pivot point lies at the root of the problem. The intermediate posts look to be around 3/4" thick, whereas the bottom post is like 2-3 inch square. If the pivot point above the square bottom post had been set in about flush with the rear face of the post (replicating the intermediate posts), all would have been good (though the pivot would look out of balance). But having that offset on the bottom post throws your rail off from being parallel to the cables. I don't know if this was a custom order or a "one size fits all" out of the box set, but either way I feel the manufacturer was grossly incompetent to push this out their door. If it was a custom set, the bottom square post should have had the top distance of the bottom post (from the top cable hole to the top of the post) manufactured shorter to compensate for the pivot offset. If it was a set where all posts are the same height, the manufacturer should have included specific warnings and instructions about the necessity to do a dropped horizontal bottom rail piece, similar to what they sent you after the fact. What if you required a one piece straight rail as you originally did it? That would be impossible with the posts as they are unless you alter the posts or add blocks, both of which are unacceptable. The only way to get a continuous straight run would be if the top spacing of the bottom post was shorter than it is. I'm sure your situation is very common and something the manufacturer is well aware of. Also... Your pinned comment explaining the limiting constraints you were facing is excellent. Certainly adds so much clarity. Thank you again for sharing your expertise; beautiful job. Although I just found your channel, I find your videos very enlightening and a joy to watch.
I feel your pain. I layout access stairs from time to time for the oil and gas platforms in CAD and I know stairways and handrails can get very complicated at times. It can really depend on what is happening at the top and bottom of the approach. Does it stop, does it turn, does it go straight? It’s amazing how much it changes the geometry of what it is you are laying out. Love your video and good luck. You’ll only get better.
Loved seeing this thought process since I am doing the same thing now. I believe I would have been fine with adding the 7/8" blocks on the intermediate railing posts. Great finish work and excellent solution for the customer.
Fantastic vid. This level of problem solving is what sets the higher skilled woodworker apart from the pack. I appreciated your perseverance on this one. As always, your attention to detail and your OCD towards woodworking makes you relentless in executing the best possible outcomes. Cheers! Norm from Montreal, Canada
Thanks for taking the time to explain this, while (I'm sure) you where under pressure to get it done. You handled the situation above and beyond, though. Sign of a true professional and someone who takes great pride in a job well done. Cheers from Denmark.
I understand your pain. I'm installing cable rails for the first time, on 3 sets of stairs of different configurations. It's all finally working out nicely; but not without BS&T's.
You can either buy experience or you can earn it. And you definitely eared it on this job. Job well done, your tenacity is inspiring. --- Thanks for the great lesson in building. ---
I have done only one very complicated stair rail, and that bad boy was perfect. It was maybe 50% skill and 50% luck. I did a bunch of other work on that home and at the height of the Housing Market crash, in early 2009, we sold it above market value. It was a post and beam mountain top home, so it was 100% wood work. I re-worked three other stair rails on that house that had big flaws from the original construction, but they were all basic rail and spindle stairs. It looks like you're the kind of artisan that wont quit till its all perfect. Nice work.
Thinking on the hoof is what gives insight! Everyone learns by mistakes, although it wasn’t yours you made a better job than the original design. Well done and thank you.
I absolutely hate installing cable railing, especially on the rakes. Kudos to you for showing everyone how even a dedicated professional can screw up every now and then 💯
Well done my friend, everyday is a learning experience....some days more than others. Keep it up, I love your channel. I'm a 30 + year veteran of the carpentry trade, and everyday is a new adventure.
The knowledge that you gained from this experience will come in handy in the future for something completely different. A lesson well learned, as they say. Don't think of it as a lot of time wasted, instead, added experience to your repertoire. Well done!
That's one of those things that has you pulling your hair out by the end of the day great job sticking through it and figuring it out I'm glad you didn't leave the spacer blocks on the second go-around that didn't look that look good at all. you made the right choice great work keep it up I love watching the channel
You are a true installer!.. Didn’t think I’d watch the entire video but I did! And boy can I relate 😅 sometimes you just have those jobs that become lessons
Finished product looks great. All too often what looks simple turns out to be the most complicated thing to do. Thanks for sharing your trouble shooting video.
You mate are an extremely good carpenter. You have an eye for detail and exercise high standards. Glad you didn’t leave those packers in, that had me cringing for a while. Keep it up.
Very interesting indeed - it took me a while to “get it” on the problem but then when u showed the 3rd version it finally clicked in my head. So glad you posted this - Thank You
