This is an interesting video but probably not popular among the 10K people the ordered a Stark varq. The Stark varq is now the most ordered MX bike of all current MX bikes by a great margin. However, I do agree that there’s no way that the range claims of Stark can be met. It’s just not possible with today’s or maybe tomorrow’s battery technology. You’ll also notice that in the media tests of the varq each test rider said they were not allowed to test range. The test riders were only allowed to ride the varq under close testing conditions which consisted of a few laps at a time with break periods where the bike could be recharged. The vast majority of the test riders had no experience with e bikes and didn’t know what to expect. To be transparent, I own two KTM Freerides with the 3.9kw packs and an extra 3.9kw battery as well as an Alta MXR with the 5.8kw pack. First of all, each of my bikes are a blast to ride. Each one of them offers something different than an ICE bike offers. Quiet, smooth, vibration free, little maintenance and no radiated heat from the engine etc. Even though Alta is no longer around, thanks to Harley Davidson, some now have over 10K miles without a single problem. But because range is a factor, I would never take any of them on a long high speed ride. If the contemplated ride is over 20 miles I’m going to take my Husqvarna te300i. The e bikes are great for short rides and closed corse riding where you can pull over for a battery swap with the KTM or plug into a charger with the Alta or varq. The Stark is somewhat of a reverse engineered Alta although in many ways I think the Alta has superior components using suspension, wheels etc from KTM. They both have approximately the same battery pack of 6kw and the battery chemistry is similar. Currently there’s no battery magic out there that will substantially increase the range of the Varq. 6kw is 6kw no matter if it’s an Alta or a varq or whatever else. The KTM with a battery swap will go further than either the Alta or the varq but it’s also not intended for the same purpose. The Alta and the varq can easily handle MX duty within their range constraints and the KTM is a super fun play bike within its range constraints. So as unpopular as this video and my post may be, I’m sorry to say they are both true. However, I believe the varq will be a great bike for lots of people who will accept it for what it is and I sincerely hope Stark is successful long into the future.
I will personally keep my order because i was looking for a used Alta when the varg came out on the web. Used Alta without any support were around 10-12k, and getting the stark will be with a little better range, kyb suspension, and a little more option. So yes, they lied on there advertising and i am a little disappointed of the range and the new weight, but it’ll still be better than the Alta, with parts available as long as the brand exist. I just consider the bike like an Alta redfish 2022.
I owned an Alta for two years and did nothing but ride technical trail on it. It was an absolute blast to ride. I wish I still had it but I sold it because I was worried about parts availability once the company went belly up. My best distance day was 28mi of mostly rocky, rooty single track, with some open, faster trail mixed in. Our terrain in the mtns of NC was fitting for the Alta, lots of slow techy terrain that could be managed in ride modes 1 and 2 (less power). There is plenty of open faster trail, but it did not eat battery power in modes 1 and 2 like i thought it would. I was amazed. There was still plenty of power in those modes. I'm a pretty fit woods rider, and our rugged local trails will wear your ass out in 30 miles. I could see where these ebikes would not be a good fit for desert and more open landscapes with faster riding. Having a clutch would be amazing, but I learned great throttle control on the Alta over time and was able to ride slick, ledgey terrain with no problems. The biggest downside of the Alta was weight. 270lbs. It rode very light and handled well, but if you dumped the bike on a steep hillside, it was a bitch to pick up! The Stark will be tunable to get range numbers like mentioned above.
it will be interesting to see, i think the magic number is 10KW , if they can pout 10kw in a bike, they will become viable, but at 6kw battery anxiety where you get a little bit lost it will suuuuck !
I have a fully built sur ron with a giant 72v 40AH battery that sticks way out of the frame. I get... maybe an hour and half or two on mid trail riding, hour and change ripping it. Still pumped for the Varg, because someone needs to take the place of Alta as a company that will stay around. I'll probably end up buying one of these new bikes, because even if it's a little range-inhibited, it's still going to be fun to ride the new wave of electric bikes. I agree with other comments as well, we need to just fit electric bikes with traditional 6 speed gear boxes and clutches, more gear ratios is always better.
I agree on everbut the clutch aspect, getting rid of the clutch makes it so much more fun for trail riding, the electric has all the power as dumping the clutch, but I still get ur point
Its important to note the 30 minutes ride time is based off a pro level rider on a national track. The intermediate to advanced level local rider is going to get 1-2 hours out of it. For most, that's more than enough ride time for a day. If not, buying a seperate powerbank with a 4-5x capacity solves the problem, charging between practices would give the ability to spend a whole weekend at the moto track. It would definitely work for guys like me that exclusively ride motocross. The major turn off is the price, 12k for the bike is comparable to buying a factory edition bike. Buying a compotent power supply will add to the cost. Once it becomes financially viable I will make the switch, no more blown up motors. A true trail version just isn't viable yet though. I must agree on the clutch issue though. We learned from the alta, wiskey throttle on a bike that can go from 5 to 50 mph without shifting is an issue and the clutch lever is the best fail safe that most riders are used to.
Mate that was one of your best reviews today’s battery technology has not got there yet And I never thought about the clutch aspect that’s a big thing in the bush
Funny how people say things like it's gospel, and they may not have even tried it. Everyone is different... But until you try it then it's just assumption. I chucked a Rekluse and LHRB on my YZ250X and hands down the most fun I've ever had on a dirt bike. I still have my clutch lever (double lever setup, and I only trail ride and just have no reason to use the clutch, its amazing how quick you adjust to not actually needing it.
I'm glad you are being realistic, I'm the same, but you are overly critical on a few things. 1st was the fuel equivalent, 2 gallons of gas is roughly 60kw BUT gas engines are only about 20-25% efficient of actually converting that energy into movement so that means you have 12-15kw of usable energy in those 2 gallons so 6kw is actually closer to one gallon eqivalent. Also you ignored the Alta where there is plenty of discussion on them and many get 20-30 miles of trail riding, a few manage 40, but it's basically the same size at 5.8kw. Lastly about the traction and clutch, that issue of electric overspin isn't as bad as you claimed, remember it has maps, it's not always at full power, that's the beauty of electrics, 100% tunable output. You could literally have a map for hill climbs, rocks, mx track etc so that won't be as big of an issue. In absolute limit riding like trials or hard Enduro a clutch would help though but this obviously was designed around that. Just a few critiques from someone who does understand the world more than most 😉 it is overhyped and I think alot of people will be disappointed but if you consider the facts it is worth the price, just can't expect what they claim to be fact
very true , i think they will need to pass the 10kw mark to make it somehow usable for the trail riders, but that will still leave the adventure riders behind by quite a long shot . Alta went out of business by a reason, no customers for what they sold ! i think at 8kw would have been able to do the 40 mile range and at 10kw the 40 would be perfect with +10 in case you get lost
@@vegasromaniac technically Alta went out bc investors pulling out, namely Harley. But yea the only adv bikes are the zeros and they're using 14.4kw batteries so they are crazy heavy. I think the 10kw would be a great number as well but batteries need to loose about 50% weight before that is feasible to do with staying under 250lbs
@@mrskywalker115 correct. Alta's only issue was "Wild Hogs!" They had just established a really solid dealer network and were gearing up when those boomers who love riding turds brought them down. Solid state tech is just 3 years away. A solid state battery is just 15min away from dropping into a Varg when that day comes. Gas bikes are in their final decade of life.
Had an Alta MXR and I only used it for MX and turn track practice. At the MX track, I would charge off a 220v generator between sessions. This would allow me to ride all day. By far the best MX bike I’ve ever ridden. In contrast, the Alta was terrible off-road. The worst are loose, rocky hill climbs where it slips, grips and bucks you all over the place. Also, 20 miles was the max distance on any map at a moderate (for me) pace. I still think it was a great bike and I’m sure the Varg will also be amazing when used for the right application. Keeping hours off my KTM 300 at the turn track was nice and again it was incredible for MX. However, if someone is looking at this for off-road riding, prepare to be disappointed unless you only ride a short loop with good traction.
@@taffhy it will be amazing on an MX track, no doubt. Just bring a 220v generator to plug into between motos. That’s what I did with the Alta and I could ride all day. I’m thinking tracks will eventually install 220v outlets and charge a small fee to use them.
@@motogp1gprix1 whats the point of having an EV bike if you have to bring a generator with you everywhere? Seems counterintuitive. I think Im just gonna wait 10 years and then buy EV if technology has improved.
I think the electric bikes are awesome and I think they really have a niche if we get like more indoor super Moto tracks you won't have to breathe in the gas fumes you actually be able to hear the person next to you talking while you race but ask for outdoor trail riding sorry I'll stick with my gas
Gr8 Video Mr Vegas! We need more bikers like yourself to help clear up any foggy hype regarding e bike products. For me I need a bike where I can pull out the battery and recharge as I don't have the luxury of a garage with fast charger. The Surron / Talaria battery is about 11kg so that's do-able - I can pull it in and out no problem without the need to work out at the gym, but I think 11kg is heavy enough - especially as the battery weight may affect power to weight ratio. I'd say I'm a medium sized person :) of 70 kilos - so I'm probably a little bit lighter than the average Scandinavian. I mainly do a mixture of road and trails (but not real off roading) and the Surron gets me 40 to 50 miles with a mixture of eco mode and occasional sport mode. So for me, I'm completely happy with the Surron for my own style of riding and needs - as long as they keep those battery weights down of course!!
I agree on the range part but personally I feel like the clutch and gears are just a distraction from the actual riding and electric got instant torque so you don’t have to rev it up to get a powerful launch.
The Biggest problem for me was without a clutch and Gears the Engine Breaking is Even more than you would have on a 250 if you Set it up like that it creates unneccesary Preload on your Suspension on the Stark and makes the Stark feel really Heavy and really Bad Handling so i would ride it without any Regeneration but then you really have not much Time until the Battery is Empty 😅 i also think the Traction Control is necessary in Wet or Dusty Conditions but for a Fun Bike i would buy it as a Third or Fourth Bike more like a Toy!
I actually believe it. I have a Cake kalk and when trail riding at low speeds the thing goes forever. 5+ hours, and the fastest I have ran it out was about 45 minutes so it seems very likely that they are telling the truth. The regen seems to add about 5% but i like the dynamic braking. Having multiple batteries for racing will be required but I bet it will suit light trail riding on 1 charge. We'll see!
ok, referring to what you said about the clutch. I believe that you will get the dumping clutch feeling whenever you use the throttle, on electric bikes the torque is instant as apposed to having to use the clutch to build up rpm in a gas bike to get the feeling of a lot of torque, the stark will just have is instantly. also what you said about matching a battery to a 2 gallon tank on a gas bike is wrong, gas bikes are wayyyy less efficient than electric, gas cars/bikes are generally around 25% efficient with the gas provided meaning that 75% is just shot out the exhaust. A gallon of gas as the same amount of energy as 33.7kwh but a gas bike burns 25.275kwh through the exhaust! With these numbers for a ebike to have the same amount of range as a 2 gallon dirt bike tank you need a battery size of almost 17kwh, (33.7 x .25 = 8.425kwh of actual power used in a gas bike per gallon x2 for 2 gallon tank) which is not possible with the form factor of dirt bikes but i bet it will be in the next 10 years.
There is a huge difference between negativity and objectivity. Most people cannot tell the difference - they are the ones you refer as "living in this world" and probably not understanding it. You nailed it !! Well done - storage has always been the issue. And I thought the range on my DR650 with std tank was bad !!!
@@lithium25693 Simple.....I'm talking about enjoying riding in whatever format, be it electric, ICE (or fossil fuelled as the green spin doctors call it), or hydrogen. If that ride is cut stupidly short because the energy source is low in calorific value and will take ages to recharge/refuel, then I'm going to prefer something else.
I agree they should not fluff the numbers. I feel like it depends on use case..professional motorcross and desert racing, probably not due to range issue.. but trail riding and casual mx use would be great. Low maintenance, low noise, if you're like me and can't make it to a trailhead every weekend it is nice to rip around the neighborhood and dirt roads without cops coming out.
Good information well we know it's only got 67hp when they shouted 80hp?what other numbers have stark varg manipulated?.it would make a good winch for my 4x4 thats all I know.
I read an anti sahara club article 25 to 30 years ago(probably in an mx print magazine). The club was testing an electric bike they thought was good enough so when they banned gas bikes there was an alternative. They had a converted big wheel type bike, 40 foot extension cord going to the bed of a truck(bike using a battery bank, or a generator) and doing circles, laughing out loud, lol. We still have gas bikes(SO glad), and we have ok battery tech. Ya, Stark bikes lots of hype, and I can't wait you youtubers to test and let us know. Ebikes still in the infancy stage, but the hurdles of more efficient motors and 4 times the storage for same size and weight as we have now could take a long time :( I've demo'ed some pedal assist mtn bikes, holy hell so good and $8k. I'd love to ride an Alta, Drill one, and a stark varg. My biggest sticky point to the Surron is the suspension, then battery, currently it's not an American fork bike :( Thanks for the content, electric bike rider, some nice content, he likes to shred like you :) The assault on anything gas power driven on public lands hasn't got a lot of traction, but could change quick, go eTech!!
I'm working on a parallel battery for the store on so I'm going to bring it to 60 amp hours which will give me a 30 mile range which will make it worthy for American Fork Canyon that's for sure
let's not forget about the Zero FX dual-sport - its specs are 46hp, 78ft-lb torque, 295lbs, 6.4kwh battery (claimed 7.2kwh but only 6.4 can be used for battery health). it also has the option for quick-swap batteries (more $$$). plenty of first-hand accounts of riders who say they can get ~60 miles on backwoods roads/trails. I think you're right that Stark is over-promising but I think it'll be the best electric dirt bike option. FWIW I personally had a Zero FXS (supermoto version of the FX) for commuting and 60-80 mile canyon runs and loved it (now in the junkyard due to a traffic accident). For the right uses electric bikes are awesome but gas bikes are still tops and will be for another 5-10 years.
Very true but adventure riding at 60 mile range is basically 30 miles in 30 miles out it's kind of embarrassing specially on the EZ for a stroke if you take it down really hard stuff I highly doubt he's going to go too far
Such a hot looking bike. Your math seems legit. Agree on the clutch if only for how fun they are. Not sure they're needed but I don't wanna even know haha
Good honest advice you explained the factual issues I couldn't agree more. Funny how all the EBIKE manufacturers exaggerate battery life its misleading the customer. I almost put my deposit down 6months ago glad I didn't after seeing this. Cheers
I don’t disagree with most of what you say. But I do have to ask when you say the technology isn’t here yet for electric dirtbike’s and you use the KTM free ride as a example it seems you are forgetting about the ALTA REDSHIFT MXR that could constantly get a hour of hard track time and 3-4 hours of trail riding or around 30 miles depending on power use. And could be charged in a hour using a small generator at the track. I do agree that the stark varg won’t meet the specs that it is boasting but I think it will fall somewhere in the middle and that it will still out perform any of the other E-bikes out there.
When it comes out the truth will be revealed. It need to do at least 40 miles on trail to be worth it, and also hillclimbs and hard enduro stuff it's a lot more power demanding than track.. Half of the time onn track you are in the air U are not using any power.. On a Rocky hillclimb you use power all the time and aost none in regen back down because you sit on the brakes... Trail riding it's harder than track, at least where I live...
@@vegasromaniac Yeah I agree, I do a lot of hard enduro and enduro cross (2018 husky FX 360) I would need at least 40 miles out of it in terms of range for it to be worth it for me. But you are right only time will tell.
@@LARDinhoFC When I go dirt biking with my friends we most often clock around 60-90 km and my tank usually still has enough left in it for more. Someone once told me that gasoline has 32 fold energy to lithium battery per cubic meter. I want to go all electric, but feel like the technology is just not there yet.
E-Bikes will never be compatible for us riders unless they can get at least 150+ miles/hours out of the battery, just like electric vehicles won't be good unless they can get 500+ miles out of a full charge and get fully charged in less than 30 minutes. Some of our new F-150 trucks i think with the 2.7L 4 cylinder trucks are getting 650 ish miles per tank of gas.
We have the same problem with Tesla electric cars right now there's a lot of hype everybody's buying them and everybody's liking them but the thing is is I had a buddy rent one to go from Milwaukee to Chicago which is normally about a 2-hour trip it took about three and a half hours because we had to drive out of the way every time we needed to charge the battery we had to charge the battery not only three times but like you said if you can't find a quick charger it will cost you $35 every time you want to charge it cost about 35 minutes it's not worth the inconvenience I think I'll stick with my gas bike being able to fill up in 5 minutes or less and get right back onto the track
I agree, I have been looking at Tesla cars but the price is kinda high.....and I can get a 2nd hand diesel X3 for 10k USD instead, with enough diesel for 20k USD to match the cheapest Tesla. So I am thinking I will buy another diesel car and drive it another 10 years, am I wrong here with my logic? A Tesla would be cheaper to drive though but more expensive to buy.
No you're right I'd say by the diesel and drive it around no emissions plenty of it and don't have to worry about running out the electric cars are nice if you don't have to drive very far or if you never have an emergency or a family member dies and you need to go out of town yeah it's real cool especially if you have an extra car
And it kind of goes the same with a stark bark they're saying 45 minutes to an hour if you're riding hard and then they're going well most people don't ride that hard how do you know like what because I'm pro doesn't mean that I don't go out and beat the f*** out of my bikes and besides if I'm out on the trail I want more than an hour and where the hell am I supposed to find a charger when I'm out on the trails I got to carry around a generator with me I like my gas bikes I'll carry around extra gas can
When they have an 80hp E-bike with 6 hours of hooligan riding range I'll get one. Hell even if they can bring that number to 2 hours of hard riding (hill climbs, dunes) I'd consider it since that's what I get out of my CR500 in the desert. The battery tech just isn't there yet and it's a shame as there's a lot to love about EV's.
A big jump in performance with Solid state batteries or Teslas new 4680 cells will be a game changer for high power electric bikes but untill then I agree the Sur ron makes about the most sense with todays tech.
although 20 mile range doesn't sound much but we ride hard enduro tracks and covering 20 odd miles is a full days riding so assuming the no clutch situation doesn't spoil play it may be great for this too. if it rides like having a rekluse it will still be good. I dont think there will ever be a battery good enough for desert or trail riding. nice video btw 👍
Covering 20 miles on a gas bike is different than covering 20 miles an electric bike when you tortured these bikes the elections use a lot of electricity where gas is just so much power per kilogram
I agree with everything you said except power delivery. If they make it right it should be even better than combustion engine. Also some electric bikes like alta have hill stop which doesnt allow bike to move backwards. That and no stalling cold be very good for technical climbs
Paul delivery going to be good especially on the track I'm not arguing with that what I'm saying is that on Hill Climb and we need to use the clutch and dump the clutch for a little edges and stuff like that you'll be surprised how bad Electric motor is
Brilliant math. I mean it was all there, just tired to ignore it because I wanted an Ebike that could enduro like a 250-450 for 6 hours lol Then you pointed out the lack of clutch and iced the cake of disappointment. Well said, thanks for making this video. 💪
The only disappointment will be not pre-ordering one the week it was announced. Look no further than the inferior Alta that still holds more or less all of it's value (until the Varg comes out) 3 years post-closing of the factory.
@@TwistedTriggerEnduro I could probably take delivery on my Varg at $12k and turn around and sell it for $15k 🤣 My buddy bought a truck 3 years ago for 80k. Went to take out some equity on it at the bank for a down payment on some land a few weeks ago. The bank appraised it at 96k 🤣
I imagine they're 6 hour claim, is most likely using the 125 map kinda like the alta did. Won't know until someone tests the damn thing. I whole heartedly agree, that these things need a clutch, all of them!
Adidas surron is really the perfect ebike because it's a toy but then you could take it seriously enough to be fun in tight type slow stuff but otherwise it's impossible to get any range
While I agree that the range of the Stark is very "optimistic" your comparison between a battery powered bike vs. gasoline powered one doesn't take into account the thermal efficiency of a 4 stroke motor (30% approx) or 15% - 20% for a 2-stroke compared to 90% -95% for an electric motor. Based on those numbers a gal. gas = 6kWh, so all you'd need is a 150lb. battery to go as far as 2 gallons :)
I didn't even do the math that way, what I did is I extrapolated my numbers from my yz250fx range, 2 gallons 80 miles, stark varg will do maybe 20, optimistically 25, so it needs 3x to 4x battery, but with more weight it needs more power to move so I said 6x would be fair...
@@vegasromaniac I see your YZ weighs approx. 200 lbs. & has only 39 HP. If Stark wanted to match that performance, they would have designed a very different bike with a smaller motor which could get more range, but their goal was to exceed the power of a 450..apples & oranges.
Yep just saw your comment, one of the few who gets how to convert fuel potential energy actual output. That's also why electric vehicles actually in long run less fuel, energy plants typically run 50-65% efficiency so even with transfer losses they use less, the problem is the grid if everything converts. Electric mx bikes aren't to reduce emissions though just a side discussion
I agree with almost everything you said except the clutch thing. The point of dumping the clutch in any given scenario is to keep the engine in the optimum torque range, but an electric motor has instant torque so you don't need a clutch or gears to stay in the optimum torque range, it's always there.
Not true , clutch dumping can regulate how much the motor gives you initial instant torque , even the electric motor takes time to wind up where the clutch dump its instant . They build electric trips bikes with clutch for that reason
@@michealberry995 obviously you must not ride trials moto, and off road, he's right, you totally need a clutch, thats why they developed them on the trials bikes, trials Ebikes are slightly ahead in the game compared to moto/offroad, and the clutch provides control all around, hence whiskey throttle. the best most tech riders in the world are trials riders, who dump the clutch with the bike wound up like a top.
One thing for sure, your neighbors will like you better. Most of my neighbors hated dirt bikes when I was growing up, but they had load music, and noisy cars.
Truly to write it out to the street but most people don't and even if you would ride a electric up and down the street people will still hate you because it's not the noise that bothered then it's just that you're different and you're going fast and you braking hard stuff like that
Go watch an interview with Josh Hill or Sebastian Tortelli, they both admit going into the project with the same apprehension but were both very pleasantly surprised.
I've seen the interview and they're very very enthusiastic the truth is that real world is different than any person that writes track and I'm looking for a bike that it's good in the real world trail riding when you get lost and then you have to add another 20 miles to your ride to get home
finally it is said! great objective review! doing emtb, with 1000W, when you hit the unlock, then you are just getting 12-15miles of range, funny because you said the KTM with 4k is about that range, but a emtb is much lighter, it makes very much sense, if you go fast then these e things are just good for your backyard. I keep saying, just make a video with the Stark in the condition, ride on the clock, in the mud, do trail riding. Now we only have BS videos from them. clearly a scam
I've been saying this about the stock market for a while I said I was going to wait a couple years till a few people bought them and tested them out before I actually jumped on the bandwagon
My concern is after 5-10 years how good are the electronics going to hold up and what are the parts going to cost. I got 3wheelers from the 80s that are still running strong all original.
Hummmm, not sure Vegas, meany things that you have to take in consideration. First you have to compare it to the Alta. Some says that they were able on the alta to race 20 minutes and 2 to 3h on trail. I checked on a website to understand better the electric cars and bikes and what make a difference based on that website was weight, engine, battery, aerodynamic and that’s what starked did. Ans stark future explained that they made a stronger engine and they know we won’t use the full power, so if you use 50% of a strong engine instead of 90% of a small engine will not be the same consomption. Alta was 40 then 50hp so i don’t think that people will use more than that because the bike is lighter 50hp may feel stronger than the Alta. The only thing where i do agree, is that we will really know in march, when the bike will be ready for the media. The actual bike was used at 65% capacity so i guess around 50hp and tortelli said that he did a 35 minutes moto. And that bike is heavier than the one they will receive in January. So for me, the lie is the commercial because they are riding the prototype heavier and are claiming 6h, 242 lb, the app isn’t ready yet and they will really know this month with the pre production bike. But the PROS are they claim that they are already fast and confortable, and able to do 35 minutes on an mxgp track and it’s with that heavier bike, so with a lighter bike, probably more. Also it’ll depend on the rider weight i guess. For last you were talking about the wheel spinning at landing, i have watched some alta review on youtube, and one guy was saying that alta did a good job programming the landing because it had no issue for that, and stark are working with some Alta guys.
Alta doesn't make the dirtbikes anymore not becayee they were too good but because people figure it out fast.. Huge downsides. Even this surron I have now, great for 15 miles then I'm back to the camp, where is change it, generator? 2 gallons of fuel in 4 hours of charge, oil change for generator, gas tank for fuel. Batteries? You need 10kw of power to charge 6 kw of bike.. Plus everything else around he rv. There will be people that will buy it.. But my pijnt itls that if electric car sales are 5 percent of all cars stark vark will be so minute, it won't really make an impact...
@@vegasromaniac yup i do agree, personally i have pre order one but waiting for the review in march to decide if I’ll complete the purchase. I just do motocross and i am a vet rider, and usually ride for an hour. So if the bike can work for an hour at my level, i am good, and i think I’ll be able to charge at my local track between moto. I was also thinking if required of buying a tesla fast charger, it’s extra $$$$ but they said 10 minutes, so if it’s true, i am good.
I am going to make a positive video. I not going to be negative. The bike just doesnt make sense and it sucks. Lol. Nice video. I agree with everything you say
Makes me laugh how you talk about how we like our freerides I love mine it’s amazing and fun! Not to mention almost all my local tracks shut down because of the loud noises which I do love, but also understand the fact that it can be annoying I had a 450 and it drank a full tank in a hour so the only downside would be the charging time. Also a lot of people talk about the 4 and 6 kwh difference but don’t understand that the ktm didn’t have much time and experience to make the freeride they didn’t try hard (said it themselves) this company has a completely different battery technology and even have features so that the bike recharges itself! Do ur research and don’t act like you know all about something cause you don’t! I understand that there are some problems but what I like about my electric bike is that I don’t spend 600 on gas every month cause if u ride much you know that’s easy to do. Greeting from Holland
I hope I'm wrong and you are right but i get 45 miles out of a 4khw batery on my surron, that's 17 miles in 17 miles out and it's not a fast bike .. speed needs power so if the stark goes 45 miles on 6kwh great but 45 it's not enough . I need 50 in 50 out to be fun
rode dirt bikes all my life.Cant wait for stark varg .in this world there are early adopters and barrier boys !i rode the first true dirt mx bike honda elsinore 125.the stark varg is one of the first electric dirt bikes and blows 450s away dont you think the improvement over the next few years will be eye opening .Alta got beat by petrol dirt bike in redbull straight rythm by a few inches for first place! get out there and smash some electrons from the graphite lattice across the semi permiable membrane into the cobalt latice of the lithium battery.thats e mx bike talk used during bench racing ( let the technology wash over you }
I think it's gonna be great for the track, but you gonna have 30 min of fun than go home to charge.. And trail riding it's a no... That's the whole point
Dude you are spot on !!! I see some crack smokers out there saying they've put money down on one already...and they plan to trail ride with it ...lol. 30 min moto but 6hrs trail time HAHAHA. I'M not sure what kind of paved walking trail they tested on to get this 6hr time but I'd love to see it !!! I think some of these guys want to believe it soooo bad ..or maybe just have money to burn?? Well I have the deed for the Brooklyn Bridge too and I'll make someone a hell of a deal !!
3:53 40-50 kwh for 2 gallons of gas is off. You need to take into account of the inefficiency of gas engine. I believe it's more like 10 kwh to a gallon of gas when comparing an electric to a gas vehicle.
Meet me in St George (if you’re in Vegas) and let’s do a range test when I get mine in September (if they are not late). You ride a 450 MX bike (small MX tank no cheating) and I’ll ride the Varg, might let you ride it too :) and we will find out in the real world if their claims of matching a 450 are true. We have one coming in September for Charged Cycle Works
After reading the comments, I would say you all take it too seriously. First of all, It is NOT a trail bike. It is meant for mx tracks, where 40 min of riding with full throttle is enough for a lot of people. I personally own a ktm exc 200 and when I go riding, I can have plenty of fun within 1 to 1,5 hours (meaning I jump on the bike in my garage and go riding local woods). If you are someone, who wants to rip it wide open romaniac style, then it is simply not for you. For people like me, who want to go for a ride after work, it could be a really good option, especially if enduro riding is ilegal....so you could ride stealth mode 😆
You are belonging to the smaller getting group of men who still are able to think. Thank you for that video! It shows once more that e-mobility ist not the way (yet).
That was a great video! I really enjoy seeing you debunk these myths! You're absolutely correct, the energy density of batteries doesn't rival that of gasoline. Range is a big measure of pleasure! I just came to a conclusion that dumping a clutch is like having an ejaculation. Is riding an eMoto like having EDD? Is that why you're enjoying your Segway so much without a clutch? 🤣🤣🤣
You need a clutch on a gas bike to get the same thrill as instant 2x torque of a 450 MX bike. No different when someone goes for a ride in a Tesla for the first time and nearly chits the upholstery. Not really the same experience as dumping a clutch on a Honda Civic with a coffee can muffler that makes a lot of noise... that I holeshot 0-25mph from the traffic light on my 50cc Honda Ruckus on the way to Safeway 🤣
Interesting. I have two 2022 Freerides. Both now have modified suspension since I like to do some motocross too. I also ride a 2021 KTM 500 Exc-f with all the bells and whistles, yes Rekluse, Vortex ECU, exhaust, intake mod, suspension etc. I agree with a lot of what you say about the Stark Varg but your numbers are off. It will do quite a bit better than your estimates. That’s what matters; 40 mins motocross at pro rider race pace. 2.5 hour trail but actual half day ride with buddies. Must add, I’m not sure who you are talking to with the KTM Freerides. Everyone I talk to says the exact opposite.. They are epic machines.. I’ll bet you haven’t ridden one.
+1 haters gonna hate. Not one person from non-rider to factory rider who has swung a let over my Freeride has disliked it. NOT A SINGLE ONE. Max Volhand and Marvin Musquin ride Freerides in their free time.
If the company wants to be genuine they'd list ranges in miles. Stating a trail riding time of up to 6 hours is insulting and very misleading. Anybody willing to spend this much on a bike is going to deplete this battery in an hour.
You're right, because the skeptics who it would be more than enough for, but can't afford one, will continue to yap on about what it can't do. The people fast enough to drain it in an hour already ordered one because that's all they get out of a tank of fuel anyway. Miles is just as subjective as hours. My Freeride might get 12 miles on a small track, 18-22 on some avg trail stuff, and it got 30 riding twisties and wheelies up and down the pavement the other night. It has everything to do with your wrist movement and nothing else! That's been the same since the motorcycle was invented.
E- mountain bikes make sense, but E- motorcycles do not. While a 600 watt battery in a mountain bike gives you good range with the light weight and rider assistance, you need 10 to 20 times that battery capacity in a motorcycle. A couple solar panels can recharge a 600 watt battery in a day, and spare batteries are reasonably priced, making a 4 day weekend of riding possible. Or, as I will be doing, living off grid in an rv. But the E-motorcycle would take at least a week to recharge, and spare batteries are super expensive. Meanwhile you can gas up a motorcycle in under 5 minutes. I am retiring to travel in an rv. I ride mountain bikes and will be getting an E-bike, but I we be getting a gas motorcycle.
@@vegasromaniac Yeah, it kind of negates the whole "green" aspect to the E-motorcycle if I fire up the generator for several hours to charge it. If I'm doing that I will just put a couple gallons of gas in a regular bike and ride away. Might be ok at a track where you go practice, then plug in and hours later do a race. But for going out on a 4 day weekend, or traveling and exploring in an rv, the E-motorcycle seems totally impractical.
Yah I think it’s clear they really are targeting a bike that can race two 30 minute Motos and win a motocross race. I could see throwing it on the charger between races and making that situation work. But yah I ride single track so it’s just not going to be a thing for me
Opposite of that, except in Europe, I believe they are already a go for MXGP. Unlikely AMA will let them in with gas bike without some kind of power limiting regulation. It will start at the AM level and FMX. Loretta's etc... No doubt you will see a few at Straight Rhythm. Almost without question under Josh Hill next year.
First and foremost, it's an MX nothing else. For the wolf to succeed ... It should be able to handle 20-30 minutes of active MX driving. Weight less than 110kg Charging with 3.6 kw within 1h or replaceable battery .. Possibility to set the engine character. No clutch needed, why? But possibly a flywheel ... ;-)
Well if it's an mx, why they give 6 hours trail riding figures? That was the whole point of the video... And where you gonna get a 3.6 kw charger in the middle of the desert where the tracks are..
@@vegasromaniac Might not work for you and your desert, but will work well for more people than number of bikes that they can make at that price. You want to bet?
Not to mention the fact that the battery is going to degrade over time with every recharge..... Also they claim it will save you money with less maintenance, but 7 grand for a battery pack pays for a lot of engine rebuilds. Great stuff man, keep it up!
Great video. Thanks. In a recent news article the CEO of KTM, with his current world view, pushed back against proponents of MotoGP-e and refuted the viability of current battery technology for this new/future class. He also questioned the political motives of these proponents as the raw materials for these e-bikes/cars are not as 'green' as is promoted nor is it practical because with current technology, you'll need a 500kg battery for a MotoGP race. Wrt regen capability in cars, look at how much bigger those Audi e-Tron rally cars were in Dakar.
When I take my surron on the trails I can ride it forever. When I take it on the MX track it eats the battery like 10x faster, so I think their estimation of time is fairly accurate. Obviously a tight single track is different from fire roads so it's not unreasonable that the Stark Varg could last that long. I'll take your whole argument and flip it upside down. An electric bike will outperform a gas bike on all levels except situations where the distance is exceedingly far and fast. There's no reason to have a gas bike unless you plan on running a baja race.
i have a sur ron with an (excellent) zemso 3.25kwh capacity battery and at about 14kw makes~17hp weighs less than half this bike, riding it flat out mx circuit and battery might do 40 mins... to produce "80hp" you would be using ~ 70kw and you can work out what 70 kw would do to a piddly 6kwh battery. it is time e bike manufacturers stopped their bs claims.
true they do make huge claims. Also you mentioned 17HP, is that on Dyno , because my motor overheats and goes in limp mode with stock controller at 5KW or 7 HP , in 20 - 30 minutes of hard riding, i wonder how long cna you keep your open before it goes in limp mode!
@@vegasromaniac hi, 14kw is maximum i see on my ert display with asi 4000. i think it is realistic and @ maybe 10% inefficiency be about 17hp, but no dyno to confirm.. 17hp.feels realistic.anyway i have given it a good workout on a mx circuit for about 25 minutes @ about 20 deg c and motor was a bit too hot to hold hand on but not near 100c, never known it to go limp mode in either stock, stock60v bypassed 8kw, or 14kw.
6 hours is a theoretical minimum, you have to put out no more than 1.2hp/kg to reach close to 6 hours. if it can handle 9hp/kg for 35 min, then it should last an amatuer like myself an hour. more than what I need for fmx.
You have to own an electric to realize the anxiety, in dirt sometime you get lost and 25 mile ride becomes 40 back to the car.. That's where the stark will be so much trouble..
The freeride seemed to me like an unwanted baby. If KTM put at least as much effort as Alta did, they would have created competition to their ICE bikes, at least for MX. AJ Catanzaro loves his Alta Redshift. He did even a better lap time on an mx track than on a 450. But he also admitted that riding without clutch is a different type of riding. THis is not a trailbike, its a motocross. As said by the ceo, these bikes shell preserve old mx tracks from shotdown which are situated too close to local residents or even give the opportunity to open new tracks even in cities. Maybe there will be fast charging possibilities at tracks in the future. Compare it to Tesla, everyone (at least here in Germany) complained about the lack of charging stations, but now they have a big charging net. I see it this way: Its cheaper than an Alta and has better specs, so progress continues. And they are not a replacement, more an addition.
@@vegasromaniac thanks for your response. Before buying an electric I am thinking about buying a 300 two-stroke. How far can you go on a full tank on your smoker when you keep the throttle wide open? Thanks
I agree with many commenters saying it's a track bike. I'd maybe add "for rich people" too - at least at the moment. You put it in a van or on a trailer, go to your nearest track - if you find one that is not closed but most problems with MX tracks is related to noise and maybe we will see more electric-only tracks that would sadly get closed otherwise. Then ride it hard; when the battery runs out, ride to your van and switch it - most likely, by the time the 2nd is running low, you will be out of stamina anyway. You can charge at home. The only thing missing is a clutch, personally I find it much easier to control a bike with clutch and it's not just the inherent deficiencies of an ICE. Maybe it's because my lack of skill and for pros it's basically the same, on the other hand maybe there's more people like me than the pros. ;-)
while most people are critizising that doesn't have a clutch i think just the opposite,i look at it as the most possitive thing ,i believe that is gonna be much better ,i can imagine my self braking while accelerating so i could perfectly control the intensitiy and traction ,accelerating and braking simultaniosly same effect of releasing the clutch ,not sure about the trction ,but here the 100 custumizing maps should play their role,another positive virtue of not having a clutch is that i can use the rear brake like a bicycle while i lift my right foot cornering to a right hand corner,and as it is an electric engine dont need to clutch while braking because it wont stall,about the battery life i have my doubs,well lets say is stuped to believe it will last 6h but offroading in trails or technical trail riding or hard enduro like riding ,i'm more than sure that no one could ride that engine at 100% all the time ,so i think it could be very capable to last 3 hours or so, even riding at the limit,i wish they could come up this year with an enduro version i know they have the option of a 18" rear wheel but it isnt all ,will need different suspension setting and valving and of course head and tail lights
IMO...Purchasing a Stark Varg should be based upon how the buyer intends to use it. If you’re an Expert woods/trail rider then obviously this would not be a good option. If you’re an Expert motocrosser, quite possibly a good decision based upon a number of things: 1) Most likely you can afford to purchase an additional Varg and spare battery. 2) You can build your own track on your property and not piss the neighborhood off with noise. If you’re an Intermediate rider...the battery life will probably be just fine for local tracks. I don’t know many “average” riders who are able to ride full tilt for 30-minutes straight.
It would be nice if you were accurate when you are talking about power and capacity. Power is an instantaneous measure, eg kW. Capacity is a summation over time eg kWh.
A lot of miss information on this one video alone wow. You just said that the stark doesn’t have explosive power, are you kidding me? The acceleration is way faster than any bike on the current market. It sounds like you think you need a clutch to have explosive power from the start. With electric the torque is instant you don’t need to raise the RPMs for the power band like you do with combustion.
It can be anything you want it to be. These things even have semi-custom suspension settings when ordering. Start the app and click "Goat roper" for the trails "Fire breather" for the track. That's the beauty of electric and the HUGE disadvantage of gas. A good MX bike motor blows on the trail, and unless it's slimy as hell... a good trail motor blows on the track. Not to mention transmissions types etc... haters gonna hate. Electric bike is a button push. Electric is coming. Haters better get use to it. Big tracks in the future will have charging, just like some have motorhome hookups now. Anyone who's ever been to a race knows there's constant generators running already. People bitch about them all the time 🤣
" The VARG has been developed with a clear purpose, to show that electric technology is superior to gasoline by outperforming all traditional motocross models available. " -first paragraph of the bike description.
Judging a fish on its ability to climb a tree is not fair. It is also not very useful because you learned nothing on the real qualities of the fish. Give it a chance to prove itself in the field it is supposed to work and shine.
I hope I'm wrong . But somebody needs to pay 16k for a fish so we can all know if it can climb a tree because for sure i will not spend that much money for a fish
