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If this trend keeps up Splatoon 3 will be the 4-5th Nintendo comp scene that regrets not banning unhealthy characters/weapons from the game years down the line, don’t really know how much longer people are gonna tolerate that
brawl meta knight, cloud and bayo in sm4sh, ult steve n maybe sonic, what else? dr. coyle from arms? did people want stingray or missiles banned from s2?
@@-clod-89481x special was a very prominent desire/want from the community back in S2 if I remember correctly. Why it was never done is beyond me, why it hasn’t been done in this game is beyond me, but that’s the bare minimum for EVERY special, not just zooka. In regards to the Zooka ban I don’t understand why we can’t just do it cause we can change things. It’s not like if we ban zooka we can’t unban it down the line.
@@isuckatnames6033 The point is we do ban things that are unhealthy for the game. Screen's accessibility issues are extremely unhealthy for the game and I'n glad it gets banned for those affected by it.
I would consider myself a competitive enjoyer -- but I just got the time to even think about starting myself. Recently I have discovered that Carbon Deco is the only weapon I enjoy playing and feels natural to me, so if it is caught in the crossfire from a zooka ban idk if I'd even want to join the scene. Thats my biggest issue with level 3, it prevents me and other carbon one tricks from enjoying their weapon in tournaments. At least tent has a different viable kit
This is why i'd advocate for banning 'using' Trizooka if comes to that. So that if you want you can pick the weapon for the sub in cases where that really is the part which matters. The switch has innate control rebinding so players can just unbind the right stick. At least in theory, I don't know how workable or useful that would be in practice.
@@NorthernDruid I think that not having a 4th special on a team is just too detrimental to be worth picking a good main + sub combo, so I think that'd effectively be the same as banning zooka
Idk if vtent is necessarily as viable, if stent is s tier its vanilla kit is more like a tier, which is good, but considering the extremely high skill floor, I don't think it would be run all that much.
carbon getting hit with a full zooka ban is a big enough downside to not full on ban it imo, it sucks you'd still have to deal with zooka but carbon is just such a cool weapon to both play and to watch, it would really be a major detriment to lose
Maybe “no bans” is sort of an illusion…? As in, the more pronounced the meta is, the more people will rely on it instead of going for alternatives. So having a very dominant meta implicitly “bans” everything else (in the most extreme case scenario).
Yeah, a lot of players tend to have a pretty misguided view of bans (this goes for basically any competitive game ever). Bans don't limit options, they expand them (if they're done well)
@@godrusemaryfavorite comment of this year, thank you for saying this out loud. Tf2 player here, and discussions of sniper and or pyro and or soldier nerfs or bans (to specific weapons) can get really really hostile and malicious. I can’t put my voice out there, wanting a better game, because it will make 50k hours pocket medic up ahh lime solder upset if his main weapons splash damage was nerfed. Who cares about how every other class is highly aware of the exploitable consequences/weaknesses caused by missing direct hits with weapons requiring high accuracy to work, soldier mains need their victories handed to them on a silver platter! A rocket launchers blast radius is the width of 7 players in a row, knockback intense enough to be combo’ed into another splash radius or direct because of predictable flight/landing location, which by the way disorients your aim and does a minimum of 50 damage, the same as main guns without splash radius’s and with harder to hit hitboxes. Soldier can completely shut down spies, demoknights, engineers… the list of balance problems that need fixing goes on. I just want the depth of the game to be better, and that can only be helped with characters and or weapons at equal footing. I do not want one thing flattening the complexity of the whole game. A good example is Zooka vaporizing crab and jet and Splatling viability because of the ability to instantly snipe someone with 550 damage across the map with the splash radius of Canada
i dont really think thats the same, the best player ever would beat the worst player ever even if they didnt use zooka, but with bans the best player ever can't beat the worst player ever if they use a banned weapon
Personally, I'd go with the second option of simply banning vShot. Even if Zooka doesn't feel fun to fight, this one weapon being gone in general opens up a whole bunch of new options for other competitive players, and even if Zooka is still around, it's probably for the better as of right now. There's not another good solution to this imo
I think when it comes down to it, there really is no right answer when it comes to bans. Tbh most discussions of bans feel like they stall to a halt and stalemate before anything is really reached anyways so it is what it is
I’ve been seeing players presenting themselves as you, ProChara(I battled against one on 6/7/2024(2:19-2:23 pm)had it spelt out ProChara⭐️(line version)with Merry Chaos title, the player number #3389 and the badges were two five star freshness weapon badges(Aerospray RG & Custom SplatterShot Jr)and a Color Chip Red Tone).
I’d be curious if the two considerations here (Zooka usage and Pencil dominance) are related such that affecting one would mitigate the other. For example: if Pencil stopped being THE backline weapon by no longer being the definitive best Cooler (not the only viable one but the one a lot of teams seem to go to by default), would increased backline diversity affect the ability to pressure Zooka weapons and/or make them trickier to use with where the other Cooler weapons would end up positioning for the drinks?
If it’s anything like how Smogon Singles work (as another primarily grassroots/fan-supported competitive format for a Nintendo game with a large option pool), typically TO’s or a sort of board/council will propose bans or rule updates based on feedback, then a “yes/no” vote is conducted by players who can qualify by achieving a certain ELO under the ruleset. Splatoon doesn’t have a ladder system that supports this to the same degree (in that X Battles and such don’t offer a way to enforce restrictions like organized events), but the general idea of “Organizers/Top Level propose, community discusses and votes” is a workable framework
@@turtlefalcon5546 i dont think the community needs to do this, we need room for a noban zooka tournament that way nintendo can see what the problems are
@@HeDronHeDronHedron Nintendo isn’t gonna ban zooka at official tournaments. If they wanted to make it worse they would just nerf it in a balance patch and then it wouldn’t need to be banned
i just hope we dont ban things because they're "annoying", if we do that we lose tent tri machine and maybe range. im completely neutral on banning op things
I think there are more counters than ever now to Zooka. You may not like it, but Big Bubbler just got buffed and it's not just about Zones cheese. The fact that it can block Zooka shots is huge and that it actually gives counterplay is even more so. What you call cheese for weapons like Slider and Kraken I don't agree with. Slider was one of the worst specials in the game and it really needed this buff. Kraken mostly got fixed for CB and TC. On top of all this, usage weapons like the .52 gal and a ton of others are surging. Trizooka still needs nerfs, but you need to let the meta settle first, and that's what the developers are doing
bubbler isnt a good counter to zooka because it takes too long to deploy. the reason zooka is so strong is because it comes out so fast before you're able to realistically react
@dorf7219 That's why I said it needs nerfs, specifically on its startup. Plus all I said was that it got buffed. Zooka isn't the only special it's useful against or even main weapons and subs. Inkjet, Missiles, bombs, main weapons, there's a ton. This isn't just about Zooka
@@ewelsgaminghub3194 The thing is with bubbler if you use it reactively in this way that just means that best case scenario your bubble cancels the effect of the enemy special. The more likely thing to happen though is that your entire team isn't in the bubble so the special user can just ignore the bubble and go for the rest of your team. And if you use something like a second zooka the best case scenario is that you kill the enemy special user before they kill you and your team, which is a lot better. Bubble is good when you can place it ahead of your team to act as a roadblock for the enemy team. In that case they might have to burn a special to get through your bubble because it counters main weapons so well (you can fight the enemy team but they can't damage you). Basically it's a canceller not a counter for specials so it wouldn't hold zooka in check.
@probablygeneric429 I know that it can be shredded by other weapons and specials but my whole point is that's why it's been getting all these buffs. For example it painting the area where it's placed is what it's been needing for a long time along with all the durability buffs. If you use it correctly, it can fend off a shot or two and then you can react and counter with your main or sub weapon. For example if someone is shooting at you from far away with a Trizooka and you have a Splat Roller it gives you the chance to pop the Bubbler and then send a curling bomb their way. The vast majority of Trizooka weapons use it because it's their only long range option. If you can survive the barrage by putting up a Bubbler, a lot of weapons with that sub generally better range or AOE than the ones with Zooka. It's about forcing those weapons to approach as far as the design of the Big Bubbler goes
he didn't say anything about special cheese, so idk why you feel the need to defend it. reefslider cheese is still definitely a thing though kraken was dealt with. also, "it has counters" doesn't automatically mean that a special isn't poorly designed. rather, it has to do with what those counters are, and how the special encourages people to play into and with it. bubble is nice in theory, but in practice how does it actually affect how people address zooka? when the stars align it might save you, but in those circumstances (where the zooka was anticipated soon enough that someone had time to pop bubbler, and it's far enough away that the zooka user isn't inside the bubbler) we're not even dealing with the foundational issues with zooka's design. people's issues with it do not have nearly as much to do with when it's anticipated and far away, it has much more to do with when it's a sudden panic button at point-blank range. that exact matchup is causing the most issues.
An interesting case study when looking at weapon bans is the Team Fortress 2 6v6 comp scene. Weapons being banned in that community is pretty normalized, but outside of that it leads to a stigma towards competitive players that they just want to uphold the meta at all costs. It leads to a divide between the casual and comp scenes and likely hinders growth. The actual reason most weapons are banned is because 1) people don't like fighting against it and 2) it makes an already strong tactic oppressive. However, part of the reason its so easy for that community to ban weapons is because the game wasn't designed around 6v6, so despite being the most popular competitive format, they have to make adjustments to make the game fun.
