I rode in a clinic once as a teen where the clinician was pretty demeaning, and it wasn't going well....her 'tough love' felt an awful lot like bullying and didn't suit me or my horse. Rather than motivating me, I was near tears and ready to quit. One of the older ladies sharing the lesson noticed the look on my face, just stopped and told the clinician "Wait. Enough. We pay YOU. YOU work for US. If you want to keep your job today you will be respectful to us and our horses." That other rider totally changed my world, maybe not the lesson I thought I was going to get but a valuable one I'll always remember!
That's our biggest problem today. Everyone wants to be "nice" with the result that tyrants aren't stopped anymore. Same with the Plandemic and the Injections. Why Millions got killed and still die.
It’s unfortunate I think many of us who rode seriously and took clinics were bullied and demeaned at some point. Things are changing and that nasty method of teaching is useless and from the past. You were lucky to have someone stand up for you. I remember feeling the same way after a clinic with a bully.
Thanks for addressing this, and for not trying to make *any* apologies for the clinician. A seasoned high-level professional that behaves in this way deserves no sympathy. What she did to the riders was harassment, but I was more disturbed by her attitude toward the horses. At least the riders - or their parents - could choose to leave the environment, but the horses have no choice. That she openly advocated for “sometimes horses just need a lickin’” even mocking the idea of “animal rights”… well, if social license is threatening the sport horse world, people like her should be held responsible for adding accelerants to the fire. If we want to preserve any form of sport, the dominant organizations need to do a far better job of raising their standards. A LOT.
THANK YOU for speaking up. As a mama of a sensitive rider who works hard to do the very best she can and as a person who loves the animal and often times feels that trainers can take their lives to be disposable, thank you for speaking up.
@USEF "Accountability"....!!! Joseph, Thank you so much for your thoughts on these issues. My wishes are that the entire equestrian community will unite on this as well.
It’s terribly disappointing in 2024 to hear a coach say all horses need a lickin. She was demeaning to the riders as well. It’s time to grow and develop Positive working partnerships with our horses that do not involve force and pain. That time has past. We are trying to say to people that we don’t use crops to hit and hurt. She needs to either change her methods and beliefs or stop contributing to the problem.
Well said, if a rider has to "run a horse into a wall, there is no communication, the horse is out of control, he doesn't know where you want him to go".
So well said ! Thank you for your calm , intelligent , logical take on this situation . There is a big difference between bullying & constructive criticism - the latter , along w/ patient explanation & positive reinforcement will achieve so much more .
That woman should not be coaching as she's detrimental to the student's and horses. We need to set higher standards for those in positions of power and influence. At the very minimum she needs more training on how to be an effective teacher/clinician and trainer.
thank you for bringing this up, this kind of training has to end. Growing up riding in the 80s this was how you were trained, either you grew a tough skin or you left. It was horrible Folks flocked to George Morris clinics and the man took pride in making people cry. Appalling. Luckily times changes, horse training has changed and so has coaching. Folks like this need to get with the times!
as a up and coming rider, I had an opportunity to attend a George Morris Clinic, I was devastated at the time when I couldn't go due to injury. Looking back, glad I missed it.
Joseph, thank you for addressing this and sharing your perspective. I hope that the USEF doesn’t just release a vague statement and then do nothing further.
Learning, true learning can only happen in a place of kindness and support of both horse and rider. You can be demanding as a clinician but that can and must be done from a place of kindness.
Better teaching methods exist. I understand it can prove frustrating to repeat the same concept, but as an instructor, you are responsible for both horse and rider's growth. I experienced a clinician that belittled, demanded, and disciplined a horse in a brutal manner. I refused to ride with that clinician ever again. As an adult amateur, I know that I'm slower, etc. However, all adults, youth, and horses deserve respect.
Saw on another video the grey horse was swishing tail continually. Not a happy horse. Could be pain, stress? Yeah, she was bad tempered generally, not empathetic to the horses at all. Not cool.
I have been watching you for a long time, quite a journey. I felt like I have been there for a lot of the ride. I have never made any comments and know that I don't really matter in the grand scheme, although this is once when I would not be able to get past not giving you my thoughts. I hope that this makes its way to you, I know you get tons of comments. Thank you for always being fair. Thank you for always being professional. Thank you for always taking the high roads in every situation. You have taught many people that you can go far with having integrity and in all situations doing what is right. It always matters in good horsemanship but it also makes life better, for all concerned. Horse, rider, teacher, student, not only the industry but also anyone along the way. So, Thank you. From a fan.
Thank you. I try to read all the comments that I can and it does mean a lot to me when people post from the heart and advocate for the horse. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
I believe that this clinician also said something completely incorrect about why while and crops were invented or made for. She said something about how while were made to whip horses. Totally inappropriate and incorrect. She said nothing about them being an extension of your legs or arms.
She has no place teaching young riders with the balance of power dynamics between children and teacher. She should loose her coaching license. It was verbal abuse, belittling, and unhelpful.
It is hard to ride and learn at the same time! We don't expect our doctors to learn on the job, so why should we expect riders to be able to learn at the same time they are trying to control a 500kg, free thinking being! Having someone abuse you at the same is just rediculous! We need more theory prior to getting on a horse! Any clinician that is abusive should be avoided, no matter what their name or qualifications are! Not everyone is a good teacher and not everyone should teach. We need to demand more from our instructors! Money talks!
With trainers like this do you really wonder why there is sooooo much horse abuse in equestrian sports? Whether she is training the riders for the next (or any) Olympics is not an excuse to advocate animal abuse.
Yes, a good horseman ship for the horses an riders is so important. I haven't saw the video, you speak about. I think I don't want to see it. Bit you are so right. Thank you, for your Statement. 🥰🙏
She has an old-school teaching style. I grew up riding hunter/jumper back east where everyone worshipped George Morris and many instructors would curse you out if you didn't do what they said . . . either child or adult! It didn't matter. Teaching should have evolved away from this style by now into one with more effective communication while still getting good results.
Same here I trained in the Northeast as a child too and I made sure my daughter goes to a trainer that is kind, respectful and understanding limitations. I was yelled at, cursed at and told I should know better in the past and I ended up not continuing riding after my mid-20s. Right now my daughter is 16 and she is riding at a higher level than I was and she is a natural. She has the ability to sense when something is not right with the horse and stop in the middle of the ride. She will not ride a lame horse and the vets love her for it because she finds things that even trainers didn’t catch. She does clinics but they are small, very private and not some fancy high end trainer either. She will not work with a trainer that doesn’t respect the horse’s limitations regardless of how big they are and speaks on behalf of the horse. Don’t get me wrong she knows when a horse is being bratty and will correct that when necessary too. She already sees all the narcissistic fluff in the trainers too. She has promise but I also allowed to have mental breaks when she wants them so she doesn’t burn out on riding. 😊
@@silverpurkat That's great your daughter is having a different experience than us! I wonder how many people I rode with as a child gave up because it just wasn't fun. I notice many younger instructors are more conscious of being respectful to horses and riders. I will only ride with that type now. Life is too short!
I’m tired of seeing this passed off as old-school teaching style. I had an old-school coach who was demanding and hard, but was never demeaning and nasty and never encouraged roughness with the horses.
I think one of the tough things is that we have to have so much invested in the sport to get anywhere. Parents and students have soooo much skin in the game once they get to this level. Now. It’s not an excuse for the clinician but they is SO MUCH pressure for results that bad teaching and instruction becomes the quick fix ways to get results. Just a thought. Also. We have become numb to this kind of tone and talk. We need to have the courage and support to speak up against these behaviours in our barns and shows without fear of backlash and disfelloship. Clients and riders have a lot in the game and so they accept these things because they have so much to lose if things go poorly. Just my two cents
I agree with lots of this! However, have you watched the clinic or just the put together clip? Also- usef posts this weak statement, keeps the content up- but god forbid you crack a lunge whip in the lunging area. It’s ironic ! I think the usef has majorly skewed thoughts.
Many animal industries are shifting toward acknowledging the animal's nature and physicality. Even in dogs, which are much more "man-made" than horses, training has been shifting toward working with the characteristics of the animal, instead of against them. For whatever reason the horse is disturbed- rider error, injury, fear, whatever, it is an animal and should be assessed at that time as such. Get that rider to the side. Stop. Assess the problem. Show the viewer that you are paying attention to all of the idiosyncratic situations that can happen when working with horses. Frankly, I'd think that respecting such a monumental investment by treating the horse as what it is- giant, evolutionarily hyper-vigilent, medically fragile herd animal would be the most appropriate way to go. (As opposed to completely ignoring the fact that there is an ANIMAL at the center, and acting like Eric Cartman).
I didn't mind her being tough on the riders, but encouraging abuse to a horse is unacceptable. I'm not even sure her predecessor George Morris would have done that.
You want to know something interesting? "Yank and crank" training used to be normal for dog training. And it was normal for police an military k9 handlers to get nailed by their dogs. Now I'm a balanced trainer myself which means I use a lot of positive reinforcement and some fair corrections when needed. When positive reinforcement was introduced into the working k9 world, handler aggression plummeted. And for a good reason - the training is clearer when you tell the dog what they're doing right and what they're doing wrong. It also builds your relationship with your dog. Now it's pretty hard to find Yank and crank trainers because it's just not that effective.
That's our biggest problem today: Everyone wants to be "nice" with the result that tyrants aren't stopped anymore. Same with the Plandemic and the Injections. Why Millions got killed and still die. So do Horses suffer and (almost) nobody stops the suffering and even killing 😢💔 Happily it slowly starts changing.
Hi! Devil's advocate here. :) I will start by saying that I don't agree with her attitude at all towards the horses and i think the name calling is unacceptable. But I watched most of the clinic and she was very positive on all the occasions when it was warranted, which were many. There was actually a ton of praise in the clinic. She's an old school legend. She was Beezie Madden's coach. Her track record speaks for itself. These kids are supposed to be the best and the brightest. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them have their eyes on 2028. This is why the gaps in their training shouldn't be accepted. She didn't handle it super well because she was frustrated, but it still needed to be addressed. The riders were a little undisciplined. Their coaches should be just as embarrassed as that clinician (for her mistakes). And not to knock you Joe because I'm a massive fan, but are you training the next Olympians in your clinics? Or are you training a bunch of middle aged, rich ladies? (FWIW, I'm middle aged, but definitely not rich.) There is a difference. Nobody should be demoralized (and I know how that feels too) but there is a difference between some hedge fund wife and the next generation of pros and Olympians.
I agree with everything you are saying here. I watched both the groups in their entirety and I would bet that every rider in that clinic went away feeling like it was a good lesson. She was tough as well as supportive to all the riders and horses. She was emphasizing discipline and being particular. She’s an excellent trainer and is teaching these kids to be trainers and high level riders. This group of riders is hand selected to be there, they aren’t there just because they paid the money and signed up like a regular clinic. These kids know exactly who Katie is, and why they are riding with her at this clinic and they would likely jump at a chance to do it again. Her language is colorful. It’s absurd to think she would actually tell someone to flip a horse over or that she would flip a horse over, she was making a point to exaggerate the fact that the riders were not doing enough to be effective trainers and they were letting the horses make the same mistakes over and over again. People have blown this so out of proportion. She’s a straight shooter and she’s not going to sugar coat her lessons nor should she, especially with a group like this. So frustrating. And yes, those kids’ trainers should be embarrassed that she had to correct them for the same things over and over as well as the fact that they don’t know the safe and correct way to shorten their stirrups! There’s no excuse for that. It’s just laziness!
I wouldn’t blame the Olympics for getting rid of horse sport if USEF supports abuse. That’s what it is. The greatest horses were not forced into performing, they loved their job. She’s beyond old school. I’m a senior and understand her method of training which went out before me. Many, many studies of horses and their conscious thought have been documented and no where is this addressed. This to me is beyond embarrassing as a horse person. The public should not be exposed to because it is wrong.
Katie is an icon in the H/J world. So much has changed in this industry that’s for sure. Morris was harsh as well more so then Katie 😮 Katie is old school and tough is all 😊
Correction she Was an icon. Right now she is thought of as a horse abuser. Horses Never need a licking. And to flip a horse backward can result in serious injuries. She is toast
Absolutely not. I had an old-school and tough coach in the 80s. There is a difference between being hard and demanding, and being mean and extreme. Katie is just nasty and mean and does more harm than good with her attitude. And Morris isn’t exactly a role model, either. Not surprising that Katie stood with him, though.
Bullying animals is inexcusable. No 'I am having a bad day' cop out will wash I am afraid. The snowflake for me is the one who cannot remain in control of herself and takes it out on those around her.
Sorry, I respect you but I've never seen more fuss over a total nothingburger in my life. Part of the problem is that people take things so literally nowadays. Katie didn't MEAN "I'd run the horse into the wall." She was watching a horse who had landed multiple times bucking and bolting with an ineffective rider. She was trying to get the point across that yes, sometimes you're going to have to be a lot stronger, even "tougher" if we must use the word, with a horse that's trying to shake you loose and bolt with you. In my opinion she would have been falling short as a coach had she allowed the situation to continue, and the kid simply wasn't paying attention. She had been told multiple times how to fix it but ignored the instructions. It was a wake-up call, not an order. I know the coach personally, competed with her in the eq back in the day, and watched with pride as she continued on to the Olympics. This clinic isn't for ammies or kids, it was for young riders some of whom are already hanging out their shingles as professionals! I know who I'd rather ride with: the coach who knows how to stop a bucking, bolting horse. Not the one who fails to understand that when you ask a jumper to halt, halt means HALT NOW, not some time next week when you get around to it.
this comment is exactly how the likes of people like George Morris and Katie Prudent get away with doing these things for decades and create an excuse at the horses expense. No, this is not right and never was.
Are you a mind reader? You can’t explain away what she said without being one. Don’t assume you know what she means. There’s a better way to explain things. If a trainer talked to me like this that I would have left.
