My Unpopular Martin Brodeur Opinion 

Hopefully not lol

Andy Lee right on the fucking money.

Giordano, Hannan, Brodie, Bouwmeester??? Yeah so horrible not to mention they always had a tough 3rd pairing with Regehr

Levi Finkelstein Yeah you can drop names, but awfully often Kipper was forced to bail them out. Ill admit there was years defense played well. Some of these guys you mentioned were good offensivly not at defense, like Erik Karlsson nowadays geat defender, just not in defense.

​@@andylee2174kipper had to bail them out because of the lack of scoring, unless iginla was getting 2-3 points a night it was often a loss.

Levi Finkelstein I know people dont think +/- statistics prove anything, but it shows someting about 5 on 5 defensive play. Check stats about players you are mentioning. Kippers stats were almost always very good, still those players you mentioned are all almost always - stats for season. I think allmost all Canadian teams fall in same pit modern day hockey, they think great offense wins championships, that is all wrong, best example of this is Edmonton. Everybody says Mcjesus is greatest player of alltime, and offensivly he is, but defensivly he is below average and i dont know why because the skill should be there.

Problem for luongo is that he really sucked in the finals against the bruins back in 2011.

mshat18 the whole team sucked. But yeah luongo was a big part of that. But he deserves another chance. How is it that the second most playing goaltender of all time has only been to one final?

@@blap5630 How could they have sucked? They got to game 7 of the SC finals... I mean second place is the worst loss possible but it doesn't mean what you are suggesting

DriveThru because they were up by two games and then decided to fall apart.

Perennial CHOKE Artist! Stress / Nerves

ur son went to my highschool

Sean Avery I see u everywhere lmao

Sean Avery Not as good as the videos of me beating the balls out of Snow.

🙌💃🙌💃

JOHN LENNON THE ABSOLUTE MADMAN that's only cuz he comments on every single hockey related video

He was called up 3 games before the playoffs, made the starting goaltender, and helped Montreal win a Stanley cup in 1971 with an aging team and only one player (Courneyer) in his prime. And he did that by beating the Bruins--Bobby Orr's Bruins. It is one of the great goaltending feats in NHL history. Then he won the Calder and yes, eventually, played behind one of the greatest NHL teams of all time. But he had enough before he reached that point to be considered great.

@@shadytnu24 Until I looked at Dryden’s stars I would have agreed with you. But while Osgood was top-ten in save percentage three times in his career, Dryden had a top-three save percentage in 6 of his 7 full years in the NHL. He led the league 3 times. Osgood was an excellent goalie but just wasn’t at Dryden’s level.

never

Stefan Gamble you should go back and look at those teams. There was a lot of defense on em.

M Kolmer valid point, but those Rangers teams still gave up massive amounts of scoring opportunities against. From 2009-2014, Lundqvist was the difference between the Rangers finishing 6th seed or finishing 11th or 12th.

@@patrickmccormack317 look at those teams! signing and trading for every stud under the sun is what got them to the 6th seed. Lundqvist was in the right place at the right time. and when push came to shove(playoffs) he collapsed. every time.

@@mattkolmer tell that to Ovechkin and the Capitals who he beat single-handedly three times in the playoffs

@@abesoloman6932 did he beat a terrible playoff team. what a guy lol

New Jersey never won anything after Stevens left.

Stevens with His shoulder fired headseeking blindsider. Stevens is disgusting.

@@97carded They went to the 2012 finals without him..

@@romperstomper1493 but did they win?

Brodeur shut out stats went up after Steven's left the fuck you talking about hater

Remember when he whipped Cheveldae?

Loved him when he was in Edmonton. Other than Weight and Smyth, as well as Arnott when he was still there, the Oilers in the late 90s were quite the lunch pail team. No money to spend on decent players. Cujo pretty much dragged a mediocre Oilers team past the Stars in 1997 and the defending Stanley Cup champions Avalanche in 1998.

i did in TO :D

This is so accurate.

Plus that glove hand and rebound control. The teams defense was built around him, and knew how to play with him. I wonder what his shot totals are relative to his backups. Be interesting to see.

CircleTheWagons I’m a devils fan, but even I can’t argue that. Hasek is the goat

1. Hasek 2. Roy 3. Brodeur Thats how I'd Rank it.

@@sunileddu5847 1. Brodeur 2. Hasek 3. Roy

hasek all day baby

Hasek is the goat no question

No doubt, Marty's the greatest

@@christianjohnny1015 No he isn't :D Hasek dragged a sub par Buffalo team to the finals and nearly won it all for them.

And how many cups does Dom have?

You all can talk about this and that but Martin brodeur 8s the greatest

@@christianjohnny1015 How many Vezinas does Marty have? How many Hart trophies?

Watching in 2021 is what you just said but x2 ahahah

Sawchuk is the same tho he was on good teams the year he spent on the bruins he was horrible

Eric Lindros would agree-if he could remember.

Yup, me too. I wanted Hexy to take Chelios head off for his hit on Propp earlier in that series.

@@ianschroth6575 There were a LOT of reasons for people to want somebody to take Chelios’ head off - just saying!

@@ianschroth6575 It's nothing compared to Claude Lemieux's hit on Draper. That was fucking dirty as fuck.

ShootScoreCelly Because his video is bull 💩

So hard lol

Yep I came here and I laughing 😂😂😂

statistically Hasek is more clutch then Roy

@@KaleFGB which statistics?

@@MDK2_Radio After having dealt with the aggregate numbers, it's time to delve into the individual data to take a detailed look at the situational performance of Belfour, Brodeur, Hasek, Joseph and Roy. The last time I tried to rank them by their high-leverage performance, I put them in the following order: 1. Belfour, 2. Roy, 3. Hasek, 4. Joseph, 5. Brodeur. This time I'm armed with substantially more detailed data, having broken every playoff game they played between 1994 and 2008 (except for 1997) by period and game situation, so it's time to review and update those rankings. I expected that since all these goalies were pretty good, there wouldn't be a huge difference in their play late in the game. Turns out I was wrong. Here is how the goalies did during the first two periods: Patrick Roy: 2.16, .923 Ed Belfour: 2.19, .921 Dominik Hasek: 2.11, .920 Martin Brodeur: 1.97, .919 Curtis Joseph: 2.37, .916 Very similar performance all around. Now let's add in their results for the 3rd period and overtime, and I'll also include my "close and late" save percentage, which includes overtime and all third periods that began tied or with a one goal differential. Dominik Hasek: 1.77, .935 in 3rd/OT, .939 close and late Ed Belfour: 1.75, .932 in 3rd/OT, .936 close and late Martin Brodeur: 1.92, .919 in 3rd/OT, .923 close and late Patrick Roy: 2.22, .919 in 3rd/OT, .905 close and late Curtis Joseph: 2.08, .918 in 3rd/OT, .912 close and late Hasek and Belfour significantly outperformed their peers late in games, or at least they appear to have done so. We need to evaluate the team factors before we can make a conclusive statement. The first situation to look at is when the goalie's team is leading by one goal after 2 periods. How a goalie performs when his team is leading late in the game is probably one of the main measures people use to determine how "clutch" someone is. If a goalie can hold the other team off the scoresheet in this scenario, his team wins, which is a pretty valuable contribution. Up By One Goal After 2 Periods: Goalie SF SA SV% SH% W L Hasek 21.0 28.0 .970 7.9% 16 2 Brodeur 22.4 26.4 .942 10.9% 32 5 Joseph 19.1 30.0 .938 4.9% 12 4 Belfour 21.2 28.8 .907 11.6% 22 6 Roy 19.7 30.6 .892 11.6% 20 9 In third periods his team entered leading by one goal, Dominik Hasek had an 0.83 GAA and a .970 save percentage. Did his team's style of play contribute to that? It probably did, but you can factor in an awfully strong team effect and those numbers are still disgustingly good. In Buffalo the shot splits indicate that the Sabres were pretty much hanging on for dear life whenever they got a lead - in all the third periods they started with the lead combined, the Sabres were outshot by nearly a two-to-one ratio and scored on only 5% of their shots, yet they went 21-1 because the opposition almost never scored on Hasek. The numbers indicate that Curtis Joseph's teams were similar in terms of trading off offence to try to hold the lead. Cujo did pretty well with a .938 save percentage despite getting almost no goal support. The numbers show that Brodeur, Belfour and Roy all benefitted from teams that were very good at counterattacking when in the lead. Brodeur had a very good save percentage, although the Devils had the best shots for/shots against ratio and probably were mostly outplaying the opposition even while ahead late. I would guess that, with the Devils' strength combined with the opposing team's likely heavy shot bias, Brodeur was probably facing a relatively low shot quality against here. The Devils were noteworthy for having a few third periods where they led but still completely shut down the opposition to the tune of only 1 or 2 shots against in the third period. However, all goalies probably faced somewhat easier than average shots when their teams were ahead by a goal in the third, and Brodeur likely did contribute to his team finishing out games. Both Belfour and Roy had fairly mediocre save rates. Roy in particularly did quite poorly in this scenario, at least in the portion of his career included in the study, posting a sub-.900 save percentage and allowing the other team to come back to win 9 times. Next up, how our 5 netminders did when the game was tied: Tied After 2 Periods: Goalie SF SA SV% SH% W L Belfour 26.4 23.0 .943 7.3% 18 12 Joseph 23.6 25.2 .924 5.9% 9 16 Hasek 25.2 25.7 .915 9.0% 15 22 Brodeur 26.6 25.0 .913 7.6% 18 25 Roy 25.3 27.4 .903 10.5% 20 12 The tied results are a little trickier to evaluate, because both the shot rates and save percentages depend a fair bit on which team ended up scoring first to break the tie. Roy's win/loss was very good in these situations, yet the numbers indicate that the Avalanche snipers were probably the ones driving the results. This was the only situation that Hasek's results were not outstanding. His save percentage was not too bad relative to his peers, but he may have let in a few goals at the wrong time since his win/loss record was worse than expected. Joseph again did pretty well but got very little goal support, and that is reflected in his record. Belfour significantly outperformed everyone else here, but his numbers show that the Dallas Stars were an elite team in tied games late. Belfour in DAL: 31-18 SF/SA, .952 Sv%, 2.17 GF/60 All other teams: 20-32 SF/SA, .934 Sv%, 1.55 GF/60 Since it is a similar scenario, let's look at overtime results as well: Overtime Goalie SF SA SV% GFA GAA W L Belfour 26.8 31.8 .949 1.91 1.64 21 18 Hasek 25.5 28.7 .939 1.89 1.75 14 13 Roy 35.7 32.4 .938 3.10 2.00 17 11 Brodeur 29.3 27.3 .916 1.48 2.29 11 17 Joseph 32.3 27.2 .889 1.77 3.03 7 12 Put these two scenarios together, and Ed Belfour was the guy with the most success in tie games. Belfour and Hasek were both strongly outshot on average in OT, yet played well enough to help their teams to a winning record. Roy's overtime legend is well established, and these numbers do not disappoint. The shots for and against numbers seem to indicate that Colorado trusted their goalie enough to play a more open style of game in overtime, and their offence and Roy's goaltending combined for some pretty good results. I've been critical of Martin Brodeur's overtime record before, but to be fair he has had abysmal goal support. His save percentage has not been outstanding in OT, but most of the blame should fall on the shooters. Once again Curtis Joseph did not get much goal support, but he also didn't make as many saves as he should have in sudden death play. The final game situation was when a team is trailing. Which goalie was best able to hold the other team off and allow his team a chance to tie the game? Down by One Goal After 2 Periods: Goalie SF SA SV% SH% W L Hasek 30.2 23.6 .955 8.2% 8 9 Belfour 25.6 22.2 .944 9.3% 11 18 Brodeur 30.1 22.1 .918 7.9% 5 22 Roy 28.4 20.0 .890 9.2% 4 11 Joseph 32.6 19.8 .883 9.6% 5 17 The answer, once again, is Dominik Hasek. Hasek faced the most shots of any of the goalies, and had a dominating save percentage (.955). Hasek's goal support was about average, but his team went 8-9 in games they entered the third period trailing by a goal. For comparison's sake, the average winning percentage of the other 4 goalies combined was just 26%. Belfour again joined Hasek well clear of the rest of the field. Somewhat interestingly, the goalie that got the most support in this scenario was Curtis Joseph, the same guy who had the least goal support at pretty much all other times. Joseph's teams had a very strong outshooting rate when trailing, but Cujo's performance was not very good (.883). If I had to rank the goalies based on their overall performance in high-leverage situations, the top choice is pretty obvious: Dominik Hasek. Hasek was great in OT, dominating when his team was trying to mount a comeback, and virtually unbeatable when they had the lead. Hasek's career was great, but his results in Buffalo were even better - as a Sabre, Hasek's "close and late" playoff save percentage in 1,167 high-leverage third period and OT minutes was an astonishing .949. Ed Belfour takes the second spot comfortably, with Brodeur and Joseph pretty close for 3rd and 4th. Somewhat surprisingly, Patrick Roy ends up in 5th. Roy and Joseph both suffer a bit because the 1997 playoff season is missing here. I have no doubt that Roy's playoff results in Montreal would look very strong, although they would need to be adjusted somewhat to the league scoring averages to make for a fair comparison with the Colorado numbers. I do suspect that we would see some strong team factors at play with Roy's numbers as well, however, since the Canadiens had a strong defence. The evidence here suggests that the Avalanche did not have a particularly strong team defence, but their high shooting percentages were a big help for Roy. This whole exercise helps describe a bit more of the team context these guys were playing in. Most of all, however, it shows that Dominik Hasek was the best goalie of his generation, and that his advantage over his peers was even greater when the chips were down.

ur delusional

You're myopia is kicking up.

Because some of his opinions are literally UNBELIEVABLE and inexplicable. It’s like he has a secret, baffling set of hockey maxims that he uses to derive his opinions from! Speaking as a guy who has played for 55 years

@@glenholmgren1218 like what? I have my own opinions but I haven't found many of his opinions to be that far off. I just don't understand why he doesn't like certain teams but you can't like everyone equal so 🤷

The rule came in after Hextall retired. Hextall was intimidating when he came out because he would both play the puck and throw a nasty hit to go with it.

The Hockey Guy The league didn't try to stop Hextall because he was good but wasn't too much of a threat. The league put that rule in because guy's like Broudeur were threats with the puck.

prime mcmanus He wasn't a threat no he was just the first goalie to shoot the puck in the net in the regular season and playoffs and would hit and fight you but no threat

ThatGuyUKnow18 yeah bad wording but Martin was the whole reason the corners are off limits to goalies, he was essentially a third defenseman.

you are an idiot

Kidd was a good goalie, just wasn't on Marty's level

@@allsystemsgo8678 didn't have the benefit of the trap system either

I got to meet Trevor a few times. Really nice guy

U know I think the Devils switched with the flames

@@jasonkh3943 literally everyone's excuse. Smh

ya like how do you not include msot losses?? or or least amount of games facing 40+ miniumum 200 games??? liuke come on bruh

I would un sub

@@LucidTurtle You do realize it’s possible to have an unpopular about a player you like, right?

The thing that everyone is totally discounting is how his stick handling took away scoring opportunities and shots…that’s him helping himself

Don't be bitter cause you never witnessed your team win a cup , I've witnessed it 3 times :-)

@Junior71392 he was robbed of that conn smythe smh dude outplayed Giguere

omg.. i almost blew a beer snot...

Hextall was far and away the best puck handler... when goalies didnt handle pucks.. but he is kindergarten trash compared to Martin Brodeur... come on man... are you serious?

@@speedbag67 Ron Hextall's backhand was harder and more accurate than Brodeur's forehand. You know not what you're speaking of. Why do you feel that way ? Because you heard some ESPN announcer saying it ? Ask Doc Emrick. He covered both. It's not close.

Brodeur was a forward before he became a goalie. if you ever seen him play as a forward you would not say Hextall was a better puck handler.

@@MoonDragn77 Hextalls backhand was harder, higher, and more accurate than Marty's forehand. It's not close.

James Bellflower would overrate Aikman well before Smith

Being good for a long time dosent make u the best I'd think having the best single season performances matter more brodeur was never the best goalie in the league he just latest at a elite level of skill for longer then normal u can value that how u want but I value a amazing history setting season over 20 years of just being good

Orr did the same thing Roy did he created the idea of a offensive defenseman his influence is felt today by people who don't even know who he is can't say the same about Roy tho everyone knows him

Word

Alex Pitti you literally said more in this comment than thg said in 18 minutes of talking about 40 shot games!

@@fastfunpokerjamie124 👍😁well put😎🙏🏻

And stick design. I’m think we teamed up with ‘Christian’ sticks and manufactured one with an ergonomic handle for m the shaft next to the paddle and a curved knob to assist with poke checks and leverage.

@@m.fheagle3286Hextall has way less assists than Barasso and Marty, so your point really doesn’t matter

@@ironfossil9963 I did..?

@@Jibily1 no... Something happened. That was strange. Sorry to bother

So get a better puck handling goalie and the shots faced will magically reduce?

Yes it does reduce shots because you couldn't dump and Chase.. he stopped that completely

I'd like to see where Hextall is on this list

Well he has the 4th highest win percentage among goalies with at least 300 wins behind Rask, Fleury and Bobrovsky at 54.58%

Dryden was a winning goalie...not the best goalie....he would simply close the door at the right time.

Exactly why Marty was the best. Countless NHL goalies have said that's the hardest type of game to play as a goalie.

Notice how lesser trap teams with equally good goalies never did as well as NJ.* Fixed it for you. Or do you really believe that trap teams such as Florida or Minnesota Wild had the same talent pool as New Jersey when they played their trap system? The only trap team you could compare the Devils with talent wise is the 1997-2001 era Dallas Stars when they had Belfour and they basically reached an equal amount of success as NJ during that timespan (2 cup finals and 1 cup win each).

Definitely top 5.

@@lazydaze3134 nope, number one of all time

So does having 2 games 70 plus shots = having 30 plus games with 40 plus shots .... where does your logic come from

shots is one thing whawt about scoring chances. Id like to see if theres a stat on breakaways 2 on 1s highscoring chances ect a guy like fuhr on edmonton what he would see on a game to game basis.

Yup, in his era ...

He also was essentially a third defenseman. He had a lot of stick handling talent and would get pucks out of the corners. As a Devils fan I’m biased but he was the greatest goalie of all time because of his other intangibles. I’ve seen him more than most people.

@NY Devil it wasn't luck. He did it on purpose. He practiced it that way. He was the first goalie thst ever worked on sealing the ice. He did something no one else could do at the time. The way guys do it now is just a more perfected version of what hasek did.

@NY Devil thats because its physically almost impossible to do the things he did and coaches won't teach it. They used his methods of sealing the ice and changed it to be what they teach nowadays. I know because i tried learning haseks style for years. I also coached. Basically what dom did was backwards to what we normally do. Instead of sliding back and using your leg to stop a shot he would go on his back and use his arm. He was the first goaltender to master sealing the ice. The other guys just learned how to do it with other parts of their body.

No, no it doesn't. The Devils style of playing the trap greatly enhanced the numbers Brodeur was able to put up.

jason pidgeon under that logic Fleury with 3 cups and a gold medal, and Crawford with 2 cups and a gold are just as good as Brodeur? Oh wait, here's a better one, Ken Dryden, 6 cups in an 8 year career!?!? You honestly think 3 cups and 2 gold medals playing for Canada (gimmes) are significant compared to other goalies, like Crawford or Fleury who also play for stacked teams?

Bailey the difference is that brodeur has those accomplishments plus personal accomplishments. He has 4 vezina trophies and 5 Jennings trophies. Leads in all time wins, all time shutouts, postseason shutouts, and other key categories. He also has a calder trophy, which testifies to his consistent excellence from the very start of his career to finish.

SHWOOP221 Ken Dryden has 5 harts, a Smythe, a Calder, 4 vezina's, a Lady Byng, and was on the first all star team 6 times, the 2nd all star team once in his 8 year career (first year only playing 6 regular season games and winning Conn Smythe in playoffs), he was a much more dominant player than Brodeur ever was

The Hockey Guy where would you rank stevens and neidermayer? Or is that a whole other video. I feel like the trap argument completely diminishes the greatness of those players. If the trap was the reason why they were so great you would think more teams would try to emulate it. The devils were the most successful team to implement the trap and it had to do with the skill of their defensive core and goaltender. In my eyes he is number 1 but i could see how roy and hasek could be ahead of him. He is at least top 3. I know it is all opinions i just feel like his accomplishments dont lie. He is the Tom Brady of the nhl.

In the end we're all hockey fans watching another hockey fan's video. It's all in fun.

I agree 100%. He has to be at least top 5

hanzifaction he doesn't have to be, statistically he is not top 5 worthy actually

If 691 wins, 125 shutouts, 4 Vezina trophies and 3 Stanley Cups isn't top 5 worthy I don't know what is

pothegreat93 wins and Stanley cups are team accomplishments

in my opinion and many others, Brodeur is considered the greatest goalie in all of hockey, but according to your statistic methods and team management variables, he isnt.. i would love to see a video of you showing a list of the top goalies based on how you rated Brodeur because i believe the results would be shocking

I bet at least 10-15 of them was that run he had in STL.

That Blues team was so hard to watch. I still watched. But fuck.... it was hard.

Don't forget Lundqvist started when he was 23 and Roy didnt have a 60 game season until he was 24. So if Lundqvist or Roy or even Louongo played the same amount of games they would have been closer...

Jason Forrisi that’s if they could play that many games and remain consistent, for example Brodeur has 12 (70 games played seasons. Roy has 0

I think all goalies prefer more shots. Maybe not dangerous scoring chances, but yeah more shots just to stay mentally sharp. I agree with your line of thinking.

Charles Davis I played goalie , it sucked waiting for some action .

The more shots the better

Also would you say Marty Brodeur is the greatest offensive goalie of all time given he technically is the only goalie with a goal while the opposing teams goalie was on the ice

ian padilla The problem with Schneider is that he plays in the shadow of the Brodeur era. I do think Brodeur was the best goaltender in the history of the league, coming from a Rangers fan.

The 95 stanley cup winning game is on youtube. It's grainy 90's standard definition quality but it's still a fun watch.

It has nothing to do with Canadian vs. American. Eastern players get greater exposure than western players. It isn't just with the Vezina.

Hockey Guy - It baffles me how you continue with this logic that less shots means easier to win/easier to obtain better stats. That's been disproved so many times. Additionally, if Brodeur sucked when facing busier nights in net, then I could understand why you'd use seeing less shots throughout his career as a knock on him, but the fact is he played statistically BETTER on busy nights than light nights. 104 playoff games in Brodeur's career where he saw an average of 31.5 shots per game. In those 104 playoff games Brodeur posted a .928 SV%. What does that tell you? That tells you that his other 101 playoff games where he saw less than 25 shots per game he had to be posting an inferior SV% because his career playoff SV% is a .919.... I'm sorry, but your logic makes no sense at all when it comes to dismissing Brodeur as one of the greatest of all-time.

Hextall blows Brodeur away with the puck

Also, remember, he left the net so often, the NHL had to put the trapezoid behind the net to keep him from leaving.

In his era ... therein lies the problem

So then who’s the goat. Who equals Tom Brady?

Crosby?

Favre analogy is off.. no one considers favre the greatest where as some consider Marty the greatest. I like the hasek elway analogy though

Brodeur is more like Drew Brees

@@mshat18 www.hockey-reference.com/leaders/ps_career.html

LOL Rielly is a forward playing defence. His defence is horrible.

@@TheCandoRailfan 1. He's not, he's a good defender 2. That description fits Brent Burns more than anybody and Burns is nominated for the Norris 3. If you actually believe that statement I would advise you to actually watch the Leafs rather than listening to idiots on TV and twitter

@@ParkerBai92 I'm not stupid, he scored 20 goals. He's a forward.

@@TheCandoRailfan Ok so then Brent Burns is a forward too? Erik Karlsson? Shea Weber? Mark Giordano? Oliver Ekman-Larsson? He's a defenseman who scored 20 goals, that's a huge accomplishment and it doesn't diminish his efforts on the defensive end.

gretzky is legit so overrated, he only survived because of skilled wingers and hardhitters, and he also olayed in a much more shittier era, a player of his caliber today would probably get a 1000 points, but he would by no means be considered the best ever, hall of fame, sure. but i think fedorov, ovechkin, crosby, mcdavid, lemieux all of these guys were in reality better. gretzky just had the right players at all times. hes the first proper pro. woth nhl caliber, and thats the reason for the points, he was the first true nhl caliber player.