In Kanto’s champion situation, I always figured that Blue was the first to beat the Elite 4 in its entirety a long time, possibly since Oak was supposedly champion. After all, as we know with Red, the position can be vacated.
I thought it was implied that Prof. Oak was Kanto's first Champion, considering the scrapped Pokemon Red and Blue data of the player battling him at the end of the game. On the topic of Hau's father, it's hard to definitively say who they are, they could be Bruno, Brawly, Marlon, or someone else we have yet to meet. It's all very interesting, and I hope we get concrete answers one day.
My theory is that it's been Oak for years and no one has been able to defeat the elite four since then, thus why he is on his way to see that his grandson defeated them and the simply pass him the title of champion since he doesn't battle but had that battle coded in. Perhaps Oak had in fact intended to battle Blue but since Red beat him already, he might have been planned to say something about it not counting until he beats the "official champion."
@@saintzeroinfinity If you believe the theory that Giovanni is Oak's son and Gary's dad, I'd say that would be unlikely. I'm not sure it was ever implied that whether or not he has a son or daughter that happens to be Gary/Blue's parent anyway.
I've seen the idea that Oak was a Former Champion. Though with the reference to a War with Surge my assumption is that the Champion Died in it, leaving the post Vacant
Yeah considering that whole place in Johto that has to do with Unown! And Unown also is strongly tied to Arceus. Would be cool to see those ruins in their prime in a game!
I don’t mind them revisiting Kanto, but Kanto already had a remakes with Let’s Go Pikachu and Eevee. If we get Let’s Go Johto then we could see Kanto be revisited. However, if we revisit Kanto outside of a Let’s go remake I want to see a futuristic Kanto with more areas and Kantonian forms of Pokémon.
I just had a crazy thought, eternal flower florette could've been like a "Hisuian form" of its region and only reason we see it in present it cause of it's immortality and doesn't evolve cause either its unique immortality or the environment is no longer suitable for it to? 🤔
The Eternal flower is Shaped like the Ultimate weapon when it's opened up That means the Eternal Flower Floette IS a special Pokemon owned by the old Kalos Royalty
Based on the Let's Go dialogue I assumed that there were Champions in Kanto before and all they had to do was beat the Elite Four but this time they implemented a new challenge as that was the first year they had two champions so they wanted to have a way to differentiate who was the strongest champion between Blue and Red. This then caught on in the other regions.
My theory: Professor Oak was the champion but stepped down to pursue his studies, leaving the title up for grabs. Most people couldn't win against the E4, so no one claimed the title until Blue came along. Maybe that's why Blue's so obsessed with the title. His grandpa made it there, so he felt he needed to as well. I agree with a lot of these too. Another mystery character _I_ wanna meet is N's mother. Or, if we're taking the idea that N is Ghetsis' -abducted- adopted son at face value despite it not making sense, N's real family overall. Who are they? What happened to them? Did they _really_ abandon N? Or is N a changeling situation, with him having been taken in by Zoroarks while a Zorua was left in his place? If so, is the Zorua still there, impersonating him while his real family is none the wiser? Give us answers, GameFreak!
i always figured lance was the champion and by being beaten he just sorta knocked each elite four member down a spot, making the real mystery person whoever wouldve been the first elite four member
My guess for the first is that whenever the league opens, as it is suggested to not be a year round event, the previous champion is moved down to the four E4 member and the first is no longer a part of it. Blue was the first champion THAT YEAR so he only had to beat the E4.
I assumed as a kid the league in RBY was a bit like a sports league and Blue was the first to beat the elite 4 that "season" putting him on top as the one to beat. Doesn't really fit with future games but it doesn't need to when it was the first and things were still being established.
I believe the original Champion of Kanto was Lance. The reason why he became champion in Gen2 was that Red gave up the champion title. Blue beat Lance as Champion so he became champion makes total sense. The missing person you should ask is the elite four member who's weaker than Lorelei and got kicked out of the Elite Four members right after Blue became Champion.
Good idea, but then why didn't Blue become a member of the Elite Four? He obviously could've been convinced to hold a "job" as he later became a Gym Leader.
@@schiefman01 He could just simply refuse to take the position for any reason, like being a 1 hour champion makes him think he needs to train more and doesn't want to be in the league. I would imagine in this case he was offered the position, but whether he takes it or not can either be true. I'm pretty sure in the Hoenn arc of the manga, Wallace was qualified as Champion but he just wanted to be Gym Leader so Steven who was assigned to be the fourth Elite Four became the Champion. This arrangement just make so much more sense than a mysterious champion just disappeared after losing to Blue. Note that in further appearance Lance always refers himself as a Champion, and so does Blue (Except when he's the Gym Leader). Lance never brings up he was once an Elite four in any future appearance, and this could fit for Blue, too.
@Falcon Hyperion Think Oak. The invitation and the fact he was a strong trainer might be hinting to it. Agatha is the 3rd E4, and Oak is hinted to have been stronger than her when he was a trainer. Plus, his team in Beta RG. He even had several in common with Green (Jp)/Blue (Int)
To me it's always been likely that there was a champion before Blue, who had simply died by then. We know Oak was likely a champion at some point, so it's possible he was offered the role and turned it down to continue his research. Without anyone strong enough to be the champ, they likely just left it vacant.
I think professor oak was the champion since there’s unused battles for him in files, and blue being his grandson he probably just handed the title over
I've heard a theory that Prof. Oak was on his way to give Blue his proper champion challenge, but Red beat him before he could get there. I think his dialogue about how he's disappointed in Blue might also give some evidence to it.
I think it would be cool if Legends Arceus has a End Credits scene set a few years before the birth of The DP+P/BDSP Protagonists and we can be introduced to Cyrus family
I figured Oak was the Kanto champion, but abdicated the position to work on the Dex. I figured this was intended by the email on Oak's computer at the beginning of the game. The events of Gen1 took place in a Kanto with a vacant champion. Thus Blue wasn't the first Kanto champion, just the first to beat the Elite Four once it was vacated. This would be further supported by the idea that game data for Oak exists with a champion leveled team of six.
For Hau’s dad, if he is someone that already has been revealed, I think it could also be Marlon, the 8th gym leader in b2w2. His Pokémon, while could be coincidental, Carrocosta, Jellicent, Wailord, and Mantine in challenge mode, are all also available in the USUM games, he has similar looks with Hau, Marlon looks like someone who’d be from Alola, and lastly, one of the television stations in Unova says Marlon learned to jump by practicing with the mantine that lived by his home, which sounds real similar to Mantine Surf.
This is all a complete shot in the dark, they could all just be coincidences, but it makes the most sense to me in my eyes that Marlon is the father to Hau and left Alola to Unova. Also let’s not forget he became the gym leader in Unova 2 years after the events of the bw games, which could’ve been the time he traveled to Unova and became the gym leader there, and it was said he was a strong trainer.
That only applies to Yellow, but then, that doesn't preclude Oak giving him an edge with the [INSERT KANTO STARTER HERE] he gave him in Red/Blue/Green/FireRed/LeafGreen instead.
The Pokémon Generations anime(which is basically the games animated) implied that Gary beat Lance to become the champion, so possibly there was just no champion at the time.
The Kanto champion may have retired, and no one was able to beat the elite four to become the new champion until you and your rival shows up to defeat them.
As far as Kanto's champion... I'm pretty sure there wasn't one, and I'll tell you why. Firstly, if you check the PC in Oak's lab you'll get the message that the Elite Four is finally ready to take on challengers, and they hope to get a visit from Oak. This implies to me that they've just finished setting up a new Pokemon League, possibly after the Kanto War. Secondly, Lance describes himself as the leader of the Elite Four, which I'm pretty sure is an interim Champion position. Thirdly, though not directly related, all the Elite Four except for Lorelei have dialogue suggesting that they've heard of the player. I feel that they wouldn't necessarily be so familiar with them if they had bean beaten more than once before. My theory is this: the whole League system is relatively new, possibly a way to encourage Trainers across the region to travel and become strong so that the region will become safer. Maybe because of the war. Blue is the first Trainer to defeat the League and become Champion until you so kindly defeat him and take over
The kanto elite 4 could just be undefeated. The game hypes up how a 10 year old kid is going around destroying all the gyms and team rocket. Or the last champion just got old and retired maybe he’s from Oak’s generation.
I think blue is kanto's first prominent champion. In lgpe, oak and lance said that before trace, anyone who defeated the elite 4 gets the title of champion that's more like a achievement. When trace got there, they're just about finished with making preparations for the champion to be an actual position in the league. I know, lgpe isn't that cannon to pokemon since red, blue and green gone off to completely different adventures, but it's still some kind of information about the league
Yeah, LGPE really screwed with people's minds when thinking about canon for the game. (Yes, I know its not canon) When I personally am playing LGPE, I pretend that this takes place in a universe where Team Rocket delayed their plans a few years and takes place AFTER Gold and Silver. In my "head canon" Red and Gold/Ethan both held the title as champion and left. Now Chase and Trace are off on their adventure to deal with Team Rocket.
Lance was pretty much the de facto Champion of Kanto while also being the final member of the Elite Four. Blue was the first person to make it past Lance, er go he became the first succeeding Champion. This is why you had to beat Blue to claim the title from him.
@@macwelch8599 yeah that would make sense considering almost every nintendo direct doesnt have pokemon news,but pokemon host their own directs,like even zelda dont have zelda direct and so do mario as both of these franchises rely on nintendo directs to sprout the news as pokemon is the only franchise(in my knowledge)to ha e its own direct,still cant say for sure tho.
There's this joke that Hau's father moved to Galar and settled down there with another woman. He had another two sons over there, the older of which is the legendary unbeatable champion. See, Hau and Hop have so many similarities that some people concluded that they should be brothers and have the same father.
@@adripurdy1998 How'd you know Leon is older than Hau? We never seen them together before. (Don't count Pokemon Masters, that's going to be a mess there) We only know the Gen8 story is several years later than Gen7 (Because the data for Silvally exist), so Hau can possibly be older than Leon.
@@hhjan594 i think hau is probably around the same age as hop & the protagonist. maybe like 11 in sun and moon? leon is an adult(or young adult) and hau is a kid… if enough years passed since sun and moon, hau could be an adult now, but that’s unlikely in my opinion
@@adripurdy1998 I must say there's no evidence that there hasn't been that much years passed by. We never see any returning characters from previous games in Sword and Shield, why? I would believe it's because the timeline has went forward so many years that returning characters would look totally different so they just straight up don't appear. Also think about it. In gen 7 the Rotom dex was just a new invention made by Clemont. In gen 8, suddenly, Rotom is used everywhere, the phone, the pokedex, your bike, the announcer during every formal battle, even the computer in the PC is also Rotom. Note that Rotom was never a common Pokemon, yet it is highly applied in normal life in Gen8. I would imagine this kind of life change difference needs to take another 10 to 20 years, so it totally makes sense Hau could be older than Leon.
Personally I think its simpler. Haus dad settled down by the sea. Somewhere kinda like Alola. That place is humilau city. He soon used his love of water types and strength to become the gym leader. But he ever lost his easygoing personality from Alola. :)
Based on Lance's dialogue and the events of Pokémon Generations, the intention is that at the time of the events of the Kanto-based games, there was no Champion. But that doesn't necessarily mean that Blue is Kanto's first ever Champion. The most likely explanation is that Blue's predecessor probably retired in the recent-ish past and the Elite Four never got around to finding a new Champion until Blue showed up.
About kanto champion, i like to think that professor oak was the champion but he didn't battle with gary, he just gave the position to him that role, since himself stated that he was too old to hunt Pokemon, so he must have been old for battles as well, and agatha herself said that he was once a strong trainer, but he left that in the past and started to study Pokemon. Another thing that supports my thinking is the fact that there is a post-game battle against him, so...maybe oak was the champion?
There is a bunch of theories that point to oak being the champion prior to blue and had retired after his partner pokemon died. That's why oak is there when you beat blue. They sent word to oak that blue had arrived to challenge the league so oak went to defend the spot but decided to wait as red faces blue instead
They did say "you would be champion if not for Blue", which directly implies that he did in fact come in, beat the Elite Four, and win the Champion spot without another Champion before him to take out, as WOULD happen for you, if not for Blue doing it first.
I think blue was the first champion, In pokemon evolution, the anime on the official pokemon youtube channel, shows Gary being the first person to ever beat the whole elite four.
There is precisely one character with a number of similarities to Hau, and that is none other than Hop! They have similar-ish names and almost the exact same animations. Yes, I propose that Hop is secretly Hau's daddy!
about chairman rose he has one stupid idea but a good motivation I think calling him corrupt was a little harsh it's not like he was doing it for personal gain.
Lorelei is the Champion of my heart... 😍 ...Anyways, I've always assumed that (at least at some point in development) Professor Oak *was* going to be the "Champion", or at the very least a post-E4 fight, considering his scrapped battle features Pokémon that are higher level than Blue's- but was cut for whatever godforsaken reason. Maybe Game Freak thought it would be too difficult or something...? Who knows honestly. It could be the case that the concept of a Champion didn't even exist until later in development, thus Blue was put in that position to give you (the player) a proper "ultimate boss fight" after the Pokémon League challenge. The other reason I assumed Professor Oak was the intended Champion is because he runs in after you defeat Blue and congratulates you on your victory (and also tells Blue that he sucks lmao.) I can imagine that scenario playing out differently, with Oak coming in after you defeat his grandson and saying "well, now you have to face granddaddy Oak" ...or something like that anyways lol. Also, wasn't Oak like _actually_ the Champion in the Adventures manga? Or am I mistaken? 🤔 it's been a while since I've read the manga.
In regards to the champion of Kanto before Blue, i think that's it's likely that the previous champion retired or something; and due to that spot being vacant, following blue defeating the elite 4 he just automatically stepped into the open spot
In Kanto Professor oak was the former champion. Seen in his scrapped team in Pokémon red and blue. Also the first battle we see in the games and the Anime. It’s Agatha’s Gengar against oaks Nidorino. It’s also shown in the manga
It's been awhile but I could've sworn I seen dialog that suggest Lance was the champion Blue beaten, and guess step down to E4 unless I'm just misread or remembered something wrong? 😰
Then the question shifts to who the 4th E4 member was back when Lance was champion. Or maybe they would've been the 1st E4 member, before they were pushed down the rankings or sth. Would it have been Giovanni, before he was the 8th gym leader?
My own theory is that there wasn't a Kanto Champion before Blue, not because Blue was the first champion (I mean, it's heavily implied that Prof Oak used to be the Champion at some point), but because the previous champion retired or died and hadn't yet been replaced.
It would make sense that Lance was the old Champion, and when beaten was pushed down the queue. Meaning Blue's first Elite 4 fight was against an unknown Elite 4 member. Otherwise the old Champion could have been Oak, since only Champions are allowed in the Hall of Fame.
I thought based on the victory dialogue from Lance that there currently was not an Elite 4 Champion. And based on the scrapped bits from Red/Green we would assume the last champion was Prof Oak.
Lance in Gen 1 tells players that they would be Champion if Blue hadn't beaten the Elite 4, prior to Blue the Champion it was a vacant position. However there could still have been a Champion prior to Blue, but Blue was not required to beat a Champion
I was always under the impression that there was no champion before Blue. Hell, I'm pretty sure there was a Pokemon Generations episode that showed Blue's journey through the Elite 4, and they didn't show any other battles after Lance. I'm pretty sure he just became champion after beating Lance.
Plot twist: The original champion of Kanto that Blue beat was Leon. After losing to Blue he went home and his family moved to Galar in disgrace. There he trained hard and became the champion there after starting a new life.
Completely based on insufficient information. The champion of Kanto is Dr. OAK Aide from Red/Green/Yellow/Blue versions and a dialogue is already there in the Japanese versions of the game, we can have a powerful battle ever to expected in the whole series including modern generations unrivalled with his team revolving around Kentauros.
"I still can't believe my dragons lost to you, ! *_You're now the Pokémon League champion! …Or, you would have been_* , but you have one more challenge ahead. You have to face another trainer! His name is… ! He beat the Elite Four before you. He is the real Pokémon League champion!" - Lance (after being defeated) Implying that Blue is the first trainer that bested Lance, making him the first Champion
What I think is perhaps the previous Pokemon Champion of Kanto must of either retired or passed away just before the events of the game and because they did not of a Champion anymore they would just give the title to the next person to defeat the Elite 4. But thats just my theory.
There are a lot of different things that I've read, but the one I didn't see anything about is the original dragon. Technically, it should just be the "true" form of Kyurem.
Regarding the first topic. As a kid i thought lance was champion and when him amd the elite four got beat, the first elite four member got shunted out of the group and everyone moved down. For blue agatha was the last elite four member, bruno was third and lorelei was second.
I’d always assumed there was an elite four member before Lorelei who was forced out when Blue beat Lance who was the prior champion, basically everyone moved down a rank and the low man on the totem pole was disqualified from being a member of the elite four.
Im pretty sure that the whole "Fight the champion" thing was actually established when blue became champ but before you beat lance. I remember fighting lance again and he said that the change was to help the league
I always assumed that the previous champion retired or quit, because we’ve seen evidence of champions doing this before (Red, Mustard and Peony) and that nobody was able to ever beat the elite four since and claim the position, that is until Blue did.
Fuji - Kanto Champion Before Blue Kurt - Falkner's Daddy, In The Demo He was in Kurt's House. Aster - Deceased Cyrus Parents - That Grandpa & Grandma In Sunyshore City. They Finally Realized What They Did To There Son But It Was Too Late.v
I think Blue just became the champion after beating the Elite 4 because there was no champion at the time. There was likely at least one champion in the past, but they probably retired.
I always thought Lance was the original champion and when Blue beat him whoever the weakest elite 4 member was got kicked from their position due to Lance now being apart of the elite 4.
My theory on the original kanto champion is that it was Lance and he got bumped down to the head of the elite 4 and everyone else in the elite 4 dropped down a spot Kicking out whoever was in Lorelei’s spot
I don't expect we'll get Gen 6 remakes or beyond. Rereleases seem likely but not remakes. There's just not much that would be added to them as it stands
I still think Marlon could be Hau's father given how similar they look, or that might just be cause they were designed by the same person like how certain illustrators have a style that they often use when designing characters
Marlon would fit if his skin was naturally that colour...but you can see tan lines on him. Hau's father would have skin that is naturally that colout. I think that Brawly getting a redesign with darker skin RIGHT before Sun and Moon came out could indicate him
Or Cyrus' parents wanted a jock and got a nerd. He tried to win them over, but because he couldn't catch a football they neglected him until he snapped.
Maybe Legends Kyurem will be NEXT in the series. Especially with Gen 5 being after gen 4 if they keep up this trend. Maybe we will try to stop the heroes from destroying the world٫ you know?
Lance wouldnt have his dialog after beating him if this was the case . still can’t believe my dragons lost to you, ! You’re now the Pokémon League champion! …Or, you would have been, but you have one more challenge ahead. You have to face another trainer! His name is… ! He beat the Elite Four before you. He is the real Pokémon League champion!"
AZ's brother: Doesn't want the Ultimate Weapon to hurt anyone, buries it Lysandre, his descendent: "Ok, but what if I did the exact opposite?" Also, neither of those guesses about Hau's father make any sense. Like... really guys? You're trying to figure out a character that could be the son of a dark-skinned, brown character and the father of a character of a character with a similar skin color, with both being residents of a region based on Hawaii, and you guess THOSE TWO?! The main two candidates of the son of a Hawaiian man and the father of a Hawaiian kid are two Japanese guys???????
I have a theory that Legends Arceus might be set in the 1800 's, Alola and Unova were both discovered/founded in real life around this period, Oshawott and Rowlet wouldn't be given as starters if this was earlier in time.
Theory: Karen was the poison type elite 4 member, but when Blue defeated Lance everyone got demoted & she was kicked out & reinvented herself with dark types. Mustard was the 1st champion ever. He created the Pokemon league as we know it. That's why he didn't've to beat the previous Champion, only a gym leader.
