NAC FerroMaster C456 & RTM Fox Vs TDK AR & Maxell UR - The Shootout! 

Sure, there will be UK loaders that will be selling the NAC tape, but in reality there are so many D, UR, FE etc out there for a similar price I can't see who is going to buy them except for duplication purposes. It is what it is. I want to encourage sales of these cassettes, but I also have to be honest. I can't say they're something they're not. I expect a backlash, but my conscience is clear.

The UR cassettes from Maxell from about 1985 and up are quite good, and had decent quality than this one. I have so many cassettes from various brands like TDK, Maxell, Memorex, Fuji, Ampex, etc. Certron cassettes are kinda cheap than this one since it was “Made in Hong Kong”. Certron has the best design that you can get from the 70’s and 80’s with the wavy lines. I have a couple of Ampex cassettes that dates back to the 70’s and it sounded decent for recording, and so did others like knockoff brands that were “Made in Hong Kong” and “Made in China” that are quite cheap.

Nostalgia factor plays a big part in higher prices. These have no nostalgia.

@L Greene: You're not wrong! Those Maxell UR tapes are great - even on my 90's Technics twin-deck RS-TR575...using the auto callibration function, they record well, and play-back very nicely (just don't push them above the 0db point on the meters!). I have an early 90's Yamaha 3-head coming in a couple of days so I look forward to seeing how they perform on that too...!! It's nice to know that there is at least one 'name brand' manufacturer out there still, and Maxell were always a top brand! ;-)

@@TechieZeddie Same thing here,on my Denon, Sony and Onkyo (3 head) decks.... very nice cassettes, a decent sound without distortions at +3db and practicaly, these are the only cassettes available in my country brand new, in a store. Also very comparable with some old new stock TDKs I bought recently for cheap...

They do. As do cassettes. Digital is 1s and 0s and only the DACs make a difference. I still use digital daily, but it has no character.

😂 Sometimes you do need a sledgehammer to crack a walnut.

Since this video, I do most on my Dragon and Revox...the public gets what the public wants 😁

There's supposedly a V2 on the way. They way they haven't released this version for retail speaks volumes...

I really like the manual calibration on there, it's only a chore when you're doing it 5 times in 20 minutes 😀

I like your comments on tapes, I really liked your music.

I can't understand if the NAC TAPE is just bad or it is damaged or bad cut. The problem with bad tapes is usually felt through distortion, which it's got plenty of... but it's also got lots of dropouts. And this to me indicates tape degradation or worse, bad formula or deposition. I don't believe that's how a mediocre tape should sound, it's worse.

I'm sure there are some duff ones out there, due to how many have been made by different factories. If you like them, that's all you need to know.

Thanks. The laugh is, in my part of the world, if you say something is "knackered" or "knackd" it means it's broken 😁

Getting a great recording on a high end deck with a great cassette isn't challenging. Getting a good recording out of a decent deck with a decent cassette is. Glad you like the videos.

I would have preferred a ZX, but this Dragon had a recent full service, all rubber bits replaced, recapped and recalibrated by B&W, so it should be good for a few years. But if a nice ZX should show up...

@@CassetteComeback I would say its better than gold your dragon, looks mint. serviced by B&W, awesome. ZX don't show up very often for sell. did you considerd CR7? I like the look of ZX more than CR. but CR got nice features.

@@emanueltomasini9947 The thing that puts me off the CR7 is that it's auto cal only...not as good for videos than manual 😉 In the real world now, I'd be paying over £1500 for something that would maybe be marginally better than the Dragon, so I'm no longer looking.

Maybe, but they've lost a lot of my faith but claiming this is one of the greatest Ferrics ever, even though they know themselves it's a lie and this wasn't ready yet.

Here's the thing, blindfold me and let me listen to another good 3 head and I'd struggle to tell the difference. In life, what you perceive is more important than reality. But, it is a lovely deck to use 😉

@@CassetteComeback Can you recommend a good 3 head cassette deck?? I have two, two head decks. One is a Sony and the other, is a Kenwood. I do shop on eBay and I see lots of 3 head decks. Thanks!!

@@AnthonyStone-dn9ym Unless you know what you're doing with maintenance, there are 3 things you need to focus on when buying a deck: 1. Condition 2. Condition 3. Condition :-) I'd rather have a lower spec deck, that has come from the original owner and has been looked after, than a TOTL deck that's been bought from a house clearance with an unknown past. As regards to 3 headers, honestly, never met a bad one. Out of preference, look for ones which have a "bias" and a seperate "level" knob as these will allow you to manually adjust the level and bias. Better ones, have in build tones and a visual display, so you know you've got it right. Others have auto cal, but personally, I prefer VU meters and my ears. The bargains are the late Aiwa 3 headers in my book, like my AD-S950. Aiwa is perceived as cheap, even tough they were owned by Sony at this time. They are late, so low usage, but also not prized as vintage...this means they go for great prices. I even managed to change the belts in mine, which is all that needed doing to it, as they're eady to work on. Yes, they don't sound like a Dragon, but then again nothing else does. All I know is that I've recorded hundreds of cassettes in my Aiwas and it was trouble free, with great results....and my favourite portables are Aiwa too. Very underrated brand. You want something that weighs a ton, go buy some bricks :-)

@@CassetteComeback Thanks!

Cheers. It will happen, I'm importing some Sony 10 minute cassettes from Japan for it 😉

Well, the UR are ultimately last of line, at this stage could be using Acme tape, so the odd Inconsistency is to be expected. Either that or the RU-vid compression has played with it.

Agreed. New tapes were nice and smooth and developed lines in them with multiple playback cycles. If you tried rerecording a well used tape, lots of dropouts were the result. The NAC looks and sounds like it's far from a new tape...

They're still crap and still covered in lies. Try the Splicit Capture. They're us based and I did a video on them. Much better.

I used the dragon because I wanted to give it a chance to show it's best. Yes, the hyperbole from NAC was the reason I'm down on these. They just plain lied. They're now talking about so many improvements to the revised formula, that it makes their original claims look even more stark.

Cheers. Yeah, they have NOS BASF Pro chrome tape in them, like the Tudor and Socimag I rave about.

These NAC aren't the ONN brand ones as far as I know, they've been around for a while. The tape surface of those are so rough looking I'm not even tempted to try them.

It's not the hubs and shell, it's the tape. Has a mottled surface and have read that the unknown type 2 in there isn't great on the head.

@@CassetteComeback Fair enough, the ones I bought are ferric so not comparable. Do you have any idea who manufactures them? The ones I got came with those soft, bendy plastic cases the Chinese manufacturers (and Signalex/modern Bush crap) are using. The mechanical bits on these tapes actually look pretty good to me, a couple of steps up from the average clear generic shells you see on most other newish tapes.

I have a batch of C120 cassettes in my collection, and it still plays on my cassette deck or recorders, and one thing about the C120, when I was looking at the original owner's manual that it will not play C120 cassettes, because it will stretch or break. That must be a theory that C120's will break if you play it for a decent amount of time. The tape on the C120 has a very thin ferric oxide on the tape.

When they are released, I will of course try them.

They'll be crap as they're the NAC cobalt tape, which is crap. Since they don't sell outside of the USA I'm not going to spend about £50 on a cassette, that will be crap, just to do a video.

@@CassetteComebackThanks, Your opinion is good enough for me. I didn't see they only sell to the US. It's kinda how I feel when I see all the neat brands you have available in Europe like Nagaoka RTM Fox & Tudor. I may be able to get them on eBay but shipping makes it more reasonable to stick with buying TDK, Sony and Maxell in bulk on eBay locally. I recently found ten TDK SA-X 100 sealed at a 2nd hand thrift store @50 cents each. Since then I've been hitting every thrift store checking for decent cassette. Unfortunately the collection I had suffered heat and humidity in storage so I'm back trying to replenish my tape collection from scratch. I love binge watching your channel. You've got me back into recoirding on tapes. Getting back into the hobby has even made me appreciate my old 2001 Volvo V70 with its amazing sounding surround system with cassette. I prefer to record Dolby S as it seems to boost both highs and lows on playback. The decks I own are not the high, high end but decent... All 3 head decks, the Yamaha K-1000 with dbx, SONY TC-K611s w/HX Pro and Dolby S and the Philips FC-60 (identical to the Marantz SD-60 and the internals of the Revox C-115).

@@CassetteComeback I thought the Cobalt tape did ok once I got my deck biased properly... I got a pack of 10 for $90 cdn shipped, so a bit on the pricey side. I wouldn't call them exotic or great, but they are what I would consider passable. And I think they compare well and exceed many old unused type 1 I have including the good maxell 60s. They do quite well if I do a bit of basic companding. Ithink if you are trying to achieve the highest of qualities, then these will not cut it. They really do have their weaknesses. But I am a little forgiving of them, as when I am in need of some serious fidelity in analog recording, I use my Teac Simulsinc 4 track on 456. So my needs in recording on CC are a little more modest. They sound good in my car, so that is good for me. Now, to be fair, sometimes I can get NOS type 2 maxell or tdk tapes here in canada for a killer price, but not always. So that makes the 756 a bit of a tough sell. As I don't think its as good as either of the other two at their best. So I can agree the value proposition is not really there. I have been satisfied with my purchase of 756's and was happy enough to front the cash to try them out, though I will probably not buy the 756 10 pack again. At least not so long as i can occasionally find a batch of vintage tapes in good shape.

The Tascam tape is the same as NAC, and thus beyond awful.

@@wernerogiers6357 But the RTM could be mistaken for a UR without direct comparison. Isn't it a compliment? And it's not bad looking either.

It's all subjective, but put it this way, I've never recorded and actual album onto a NAC...

Not really. I've no real insight into who made it and the tape has as a mottled surface. I've read that it isn't great on the head.

I've got some quarantined head grinders you can have for free. They sound great but will damage decks with softer heads.

They stopped "making" Type 1 last year, so this isn't going to happen.

@@CassetteComeback - Maxell quit making the UR? When?

The AR-X is probably the best tape ever. The AR is better than AD. vintagecassettes.com/tdk/tdk_files/tdk_type/tdk_ad.htm vintagecassettes.com/tdk/tdk_files/tdk_type/tdk_ar.htm Finally, the AR-X: vintagecassettes.com/tdk/tdk_files/tdk_type/tdk_ar-x.htm

Yeah, the 799 is BASF. They must have found some old pancakes in their store room, or they're rationing it at an ever increasing price. That's the thing, perception is more important than reality. I just got some TDK HX-S for the first time today. Never used them before. They sound amazing without even taking them out of their wrapper...

@@CassetteComeback - Sadly, the 799 has been discontinued!

For now. I bet they magically find some more pancakes...and up the price accordingly. Try ATR if you really want these kind of cassettes, or but some Tudor CR off me 😁

villarosso.bandcamp.com

Wish I could get someone to sing the vocals 🥺

@@CassetteComeback I could do you a guitar solo :)

If I get a singer, I might take you up on that...

I believe they're made in France. The tape is essentially a new version of BASF's SM900, which was highly regarded.

They are made in France but if you don’t want to pay the shipping and wait a month you can find them on ebay for sale by those who have already imported them but be aware they are super expensive. In the states I suggest the Sony HF and TDK D (the older D not newest with the slogan play it loud). AVOID the newer UR’s on Amazon. Bought a pack of three and two of them were damaged. On the one that worked it would not bias on my Sony three-head and distorted badly pushing barely 0 dB so clearly the UR’s of the final generation had quality control issues. You can tell the newer gen UR from ones in the 90’s as the hubs were solid from NOS of the 90’s. Also the ones from then also had the guard under the pressure pad. Newer ones do not.

Hello, I email Maxell 3 days ago, to ask them if they have any plan's to re introduce a Chrome or metal cassette, & they said no, I don't think, its going to happen.

@@tweakerman - That's a shame! Maxell made some of the best cassettes available to the public! I wonder if they'd consider reintroducing a super-ferric?

Maxell still make the ur at the moment, tdk don't make any cassettes, I think cassette sales need to rocket, to get one of them to notice, but it would be more likely Maxell, but I don't think its going to happen😞

@@tweakerman :(

The instrumental song is one I'm working on. The other one is out soon. distrokid.com/hyperfollow/villarosso/gmRk

Cassette Comeback Thank you!

Nothing. The owner knows me, said he'd send some but never did...

No. The new Teac decks do not record or play as good as any Nakamichi. The Fox is a decent cassette, but does not perform as good as a TDK AD. Cassettes are never going to come back as they were and buying modern crap decks from Teac and cassettes from one company in France isn't going to change this. Enjoy the hobby for what it is. If you're "enjoying" it for what it could be, it's liked marrying some one in the hope they will change. You'll just end up disappointed.

No. It took me 5 months to sell 7...

I agree. The bottom line is, is like I say in this video. People don't want new cassettes as such, they just want new cassettes to affect the price of the vintage NOS cassettes they really want. The fox is decent, but at the price cheaper NOS cassettes sell many times more.

@@CassetteComeback If the FOX would get into supermarkets and big department stores like Saturn/MediaMarkt they should get a fair chance of economical survival, if the walkman and cassette revival goes big enough among teens, I can see 16 year old ones pay 3 to 4 euro for a tape they can record their vinyl on for playback on their faux vintage walkman. But that market is no there yet, if it gets there after all. For us audio lovers? I think you're right, I wish it would be diffrent, but the FOX is no more then a footnote in cassette history at this moment.

The low quality Chinese stuff is turning up in some stores in the UK. My fear is that people will buy this, find out it's rubbish and abandon cassettes. The people in the chain stores only care about maximum profit in minimum timescales when it comes to niche products. The fox at €3 a tape or the Chinese stuff at €1 a cassette... they're all the same aren't they?

@@CassetteComeback a very genuin fear. With the vinyl I actually know somebody that is now 49, had vinyl in the 80s. He went cd in the 90s but retaind some vinyl records out of nostalgia. He then got curious because of the revival last year and got a very ugly brown plastic vaux vintage all in one victorola turntable. Music was awfull, the vinyl had no bass, disformed treble, utterly unlistenable. And now he is convinsed vinyl allways sounded that bad and he just forgot about. I sometimes can't believe how crappy modern audio equipment has become.

There's a massive gap now. In the past, there was always the high end stuff, but electrical stores (of which there are less and less) used to have decent stuff, you know, like Pioneer and Technics stack systems which were decent at a price most could afford. Now, it's mostly crap from chain stores or supermarkets or very expensive from the few specialist hi-fi shops left. And the new stuff is too retro. Make it look 70s or 80s...but it looks like it's from the 50s mostly.

Not personally, but the Tudor CR I sell have the same BASF tape in them, so I'm not over bothered about it 😀

@@CassetteComeback I'll buy them from you, then😃

"Hi, we continue to talk to you as if you are morons. If you run this tape at 16x speed in a duplication machine it sounds like an HF-ES. If you Calibrate it correctly in a 3 head, consumer deck and record it at 1x speed, it's full of dropouts and sounds like garbage. It's your deck. It's not designed for good decks. We still believe our fanboys will keep shutting up the dissenters. We're not desperate and just lying. Honest...(has any more of that tape arrived from China yet?)"

No. They're too busy with their own spin and self congratulation to care.

One day I'll find someone to sing the vocals to that song, and I'm release it...

@@CassetteComeback sounds like another good idea :)

Indeed. For now, this new tape is really for the duplication market.

The reason, why the NAC pancake looks so uneven is also clear. They don't have a machine to produce tape-stock for MCs yet. They use a modified magnetic stripe (Credit Card) machine. And I don't believe they will get a tape-stock machine soon.

I don't do duplicator "bitsa" cassettes.

Thanks, but honestly, I've no use for them. They sound bad and now it's known, nobody is curious to try any...

@@CassetteComeback Pity. My ones are from Spain (said on the pallet), the case is half black, tape is absolutely smooth (no pitches or lines) and on my Technics RS-BX646 perform more than adequate (country music peaks +4 dB no distortion, no dropouts), shell is screwed, not scratched etc. If you change your mind, let me know. I don't want anything for them.

It's appreciated, but I'm not a hoarder, I only take things I could use, not just because they're free, but it's a very generous offer.

I'm happy to let bygones be bygones...it's just they feel the need to be vocal and be detrimental to all those they see as "inferior" This should be an inclusive hobby, not just for those with the fattest wallets...

@@CassetteComeback Word

It's like everything in life, a balance. There are some great guys out there too. You can't have one without the other, unfortunately...

Buy Splicit

I hear you. I hope I'm not over critical here, I do say we need to support these new cassettes and I applaud the companies for making them...but I also can't say they're better than they are.

@@CassetteComeback That's what I'm saying as well. We need to support them in the end, not talk game and slag off when it's crunch time like so many "real tape fans" as they call themselves. It doesn't surprise me the NAC one failed your review. People fail to realize Steve Sapp is simply a old time salesman/pitchman. I didn't believe the hype, and you proved it to be just that. Which sucks. So, their in house tape sounds worse than their out sourced "Audio Pro" to my ears. "Audio Pro" was a fine type 1 tape. From what I am hearing, in no way is this new one close to that. When a retail version comes available, maybe the kinks will be worked out and it will be better. I want to support this venture, but like you, I will not buy schit tape. I was hoping they would in time do a LN type and a UR type to go along with this XLI-S equivalent (in their words), but if this is their top shelf, it's worse than LN ever was. What a big disapointment. That was a excellent review and thanks.

Guys, me and friends around (FB group of hi-fi/analog fans) we already bought 30 pcs from RTM in december and other 50 pcs from European dealer are on the way. That's 80 in total.. Most of them love the RTM tape and some wants them again. I also know a man who ordered 10 Foxes, he is enthused by them and he's gonna purchase another 20 pcs again, just for his recordings. BTW, he says "Old is old and as a chemist I know what such materials do after so many years, so I prefer the new product."

Oh yeah. I like the FOX. As for the age, well, I opened a 1977 Fuji FXII the other day, and it recorded wonderfully. It's all about how they've been stored. I think it's going to be a while before late Cassettes degrade, but again, I'm glad that new tape is being made. This is just the start, when the prices balance with NOS Cassettes, then it will be a no brainer to buy new.

@@CassetteComeback yeah. But the theme is not about re-recording old cassetes from '77, but how the recordings from the past sounds after all those years. They can be very good, many of my very old tapes sounds fine (some not), but for sure not 100% same as in 1977.. But probably 2018 RTM Fox recorded now will sound in 30 years better than the cassette from 1977 which will be already 70 years old..

It's my own composition. It won't get released until I can find someone to sing the vocals...which is impossible where I live as all they want to do is sing in function bands for a quick buck 🥺

@@CassetteComeback super song

Don't think you're going to get any reel-to-reel content on a *cassette* channel

Nope. Never physically seen an R2R deck, let alone have any love for them.

No, it doesn't. I have a fully serviced Revox RtR. And while it looks cool, especially with some nice big metal reels, the performance is not as good as a good '90s deck with good type 2 tape.

At the end of the day, a DAT recorder sounds better than any other tape regardless of type, including reel to reel. It seems to me you are completely missing the point of what this channel is about.

I think Alan Parsons summed up Audiophiles best when he said: "Audiophiles don't use their equipment to listen to your music. They use your music to listen to their equipment" I listen to a lot of brand new music. Music that hasn't been made by professionals. Made by people in their bedrooms and home studios. Some of it isn't mastered well. Some is only available as MP3...but if the song itself is fantastic, I don't care. Like I say, I'd rather listen to a bad recording of a fantastic song, than a fantastic recording of a bad song. The music itself is the most important thing to me.

@@CassetteComeback Well, I know it depends on the definition. I do know people that will indeed only listen to stuff that makes their equipment shine. Even when they really don't like the music. I really really don't get that! I prefer to listen to everything that I like. Whether that is in 112 kbit mp3 or 24/192 flac. Obviously, if I have the choice, I'll choose the one that sounds the best (if both choices are the same). But yeah, I have plenty of people who don't understand why I have 2 cassette decks to listen to music. 'It will sound inferior'. Well, depends on how you look at it... However, someone like Steve Guttenberg ('The Audiopheliac') calls someone who does dedicated listening (just listen, nothing else) an audiophile. Regardless of the equipment or the source. That would sound more realistic to me. And that would probably include a lot of people who don't like audiophiles, because they would suddenly one themselves ;) Weird one this.. Still: listen to anything on anything: check. Prefer a good sounding system and cassette deck: check.

That NAC isn't a super ferric. Not even a regular ferric. It's only slightly better than a type 0. Type 0.5 perhaps? 😂😂

It's my channel and I'll say what I like. If you don't like it, then feel free to sod off.

Somebody got their feelings hurt lol.

@@baronvonlimbourgh1716 Not really I "swing both ways" ;-) but still he should not be so judgemental

@@tonyholmberg2526 Yes he should. It's his channel. Don't like it? Start your own.

NAC Ferromaster and RTM Fox are new ferrics developed in 2016-2018. There is no other new ferro tape than these. Fox is very decent, FerroMaster not. If you want to buy newly produced and developed tapes, it's seems Fox is the only option..

@@sevcaczech5961 I hope i can find them in a shop, i can't buy online.

@@ModernBard you are online, youtube is online.. so you can buy online or change things to make possible buying online ;)

@@sevcaczech5961 I didn't want to go into details but the problem come from my bank, as student, they don't give full confidence, so everything is blocked except buying at store .

@@ModernBard aahh, that's sad story