Namor is the best new character of phase 4 all together. The only character that I saw as the character and not an actor playing a role in the same way that RDJ, Chris Evans, and Hemsworth just embody their character
@@babygroot8023 which is silly. This isn't the first race swap we've had in the MCU. Original Flavor Nick Fury was white as the driven snow, but making him Samuel L Jackson was a Galaxy Brain move.
Honestly was so happy with Namor’s portrayal. Not only was he fleshed out well, he also had a very effective screen presence. Really one of my favorite Marvel antagonist thus far. The adaptation isn’t exactly super faithful, but I still think it was awesome. Giving his people a culture rooted in real world culture was so cool, and mirrored the Wakandans in that way.
Namor's line to Suri after killing Queen Ramonda: "Bury Your Dead. Mourn Your Losses. You Are Queen Now." felt really unnecessarily brutal. It was refreshing to feel that watching a Marvel movie where usually nobody of note can actually die. Before that, when he's showing Suri Tulakan and stated to her point blank what would happen if she chose to fight him.. goosebumps, man. I was rooting for them both in the final fight.
Also, the fact that the queen died before reconciling with Okoye was heartbreaking, the fact that death in this movie was such a denial of closure was really well done.
@@youtubewatcher6124 it’s Taika Watitti what do you expect (not defending the movie, but saying that once you have Taika Watitti you’ll get a comedy. Marvel shouldn’t have continued with him).
I agree Namor is so much better than black Adam because he was genuinely a hero to his people and villain to everyone else like how Namor is in the comics plus tenoch huerta is just a better actor with more range than the rock
But that's literally how Black Adam is portrayed in his movie: a hero to his country and a threat to the rest of the world. At least Black Adam wasn't moronic like "NAH-more" was. Acting ability can't compensate for bad writing, just ask the Star Wars prequels. Wakanda Forever was a bad movie, at least Black Adam was competent in spite of some flaws.
Given the performance of Black Adam at the box office, I imagine Johnson doesn't have nearly as much power in that relationship as he'd hope. If Black Adam had made upwards of 800M or so, he'd be able to at least say "see, this works", but the film has barely outgrossed Shazam on a much bigger budget in a world were ticket prices are higher. He can't even argue pandemic because Spiderman, Thor, Dr. Strange and Wakanda Forever have all made way more money. Even Thor 4, easily the worst of those four movies I listed is nearly double the revenue of Black Adam. If Shazam 2 beats Black Adam at the box office, we may never see Black Adam in a movie again if the Rock plays hardball and demands his character be the star.
I hope James Gunn can get Dwayne Johnson on board with whatever plan he has in the works for Black Adam moving forward. If not, I wouldn't be upset if they recast Black Adam.
I feel like with Black Adam they tried to make him more of a hero with few disagreements with other heroes causing them to battle. For Namor by the end he's a hero to his people but villian to other people because of how he does it for the better of his people. The Fast and Furious problem brought up is mainly because of how outside of Superpets and Moana each Dwayne Johnson action adventure film feels the same thing everytime. Dwayne Johnson isn't an awful actor but most of his films are just the same thing every time
I hated the rivalry between black Adam and hawkman it's so stereotypical and you know the rock couldn't lose that fight because of the contract he has when making these movies his just stroking his ego call constantly trying to promote himself as this big strong guy all the time and I just hate it
@@mickeymouse7726 there was such a big opportunity for Hawkman to actually challenge BA b/c Nth Metal historically disrupts magic. Lack of stakes killed the tension for the movie...
Someone put it best - Black Adam did an awesome job portraying Dwayne Johnson. The movie had no stakes. No tension. We all knew Black Adam would “win” in the end. The way the movie was written and shot made it so cheesy. Like knockoff versions of heroes we already know. I did like Hawkman and Dr. Fate. I’ll give them that credit for the casting and look of those iconic characters. And the end credit wasn’t much of a bang. I actually think Shazam showing up would’ve had more impact. Or maybe BA finding out of his existence. Or Batman or something.
Namor was such a great character. I thought he was an amazing leader, he was afraid for his people, and that’s why he was willing to do anything to protect them.
Namor actually think like 4D chess. He may realize the difference between technology gap between human and talokan, so he gamble but the results is win-win solution . talokan lose like he said became stronger through aliance because they can trade and share technology. if talokan win they Will gain technology and information
The final showdown was fantastic… Huerta did such an amazing job cause after all the brutal stuff Namor does during the movie you still feel the chills when Shuri cuts one of his wings or burns him.
@Alifa Zhahrani Nope His main goal was to turn wakanda against the surface World which would inevitably result in the alliance and the destruction of the surface World
@@biazacha I fully agree Namor should always be seen as a hero to his people and that they showed him get beat up and he's as strong as the incredible Hulk
as someone who's home country was literally the CIA's first successful coup, when she said "I literally DREAM about having vibranium" I instantly knew what the Thunderbolts was going to be: Destabilization, baybee
@@phredbookley183 That her inclusion in the movie was necessary to prove Namor is correct in that other world powers wouldnt hesitate to destroy either Talocan or Wakanda to get their resources
So glad to see more people see Namor as an anti hero. I don't understand why Namor gets labeled as a villain. Sure, he's an antagonist, but even if his methods are ruthless, his motivations and core values are identical to those of the heroes.
Because He is clearly a villain, a hero wouldn't genocide millions of people who aren't attacking you to protect thousands. Only a villain would Namlmor should be executed for crimes against humanity.
Tbh Black Adam was more of a reluctant hero than an anti-hero. They tried to put Hawkman as contrast but Hawkman just came across the world's most dogmatic virtuous man not the "normal" hero.
Imagine if they kept Hawkman's resurrection powers and used that as license for Black Adam to keep killing him in progressively hilarious ways. Obvs they'd have to change Fate's whole B-plot, but just imagine the movie that could've been.
Fate could have just been overconfident or in the wrong place at the wrong time and still died. His vision could have been misinterpreted or something. They definitely could have done the same thing without him trying to save Hawkman.
Embarrasing meaning of his name gave in WF. Makes more sense by name it "El hijo Vengador" (The Avenging Son), more than "El niño sin amor" (The kid without Love). Una verdadera vergüenza, y te lo dice un hispanohablante. Es muy cursi para su historia, pobremente construido, demasiado victimista y sólo alguien ajeno al idioma del español pensaría que es "cool". Lo peor de todo es que no hace ningún sentido en un contexto lingüístico para las creencias de la época 😒😒😒
@@BillyBatsonMarvel Well, if we're going to make it look like the comics, we would've needed someone like John Cena for a physique like it appears in some comics. And Namor's build should be to the slender side, like a swimmer's since he's lives in the depths of the sea.
@@anaperez5442 Cena looks nothing like Prince Namor. Van Damme is too old but, Bloodsport Van Damme would have been perfect. John Cena is Captain America.
I LITERALLY just came back from watching Wakanda (absolutly loved it) found Namor so interesting and yeah, this video perfectly explains why. I hate what he did, but I totally understand why he did it.
That was my main gripe with Black Adam: they REALLY wanted to sell him as a morally grey hero who's willing to do what others aren't, but he never goes beyond a kinda grumpy demigod.
Namor feels like the only time I have seen an antagonist in a Marvel film rather than a Villain. Too many times Marvel films just feel like the 3 categories are: Hero, Villain, and obvious Hero that just doesn't know it yet, but once they punch the hero a few times they will switch sides.
Yes! He feels like the true first non evil antagonist The closest to ever reach him was karli from fatws but they dropped the ball hard with her by changing her ideals each time
Easily. Rock did fine, but Cougler is an excellent writer and director. Turning "Namor" into synonym for No Love, was just brilliant. In the comics it was just Roman in reverse. Sorry but this Namor is better than the comic book character ever was. As for the Rock - Love him, but his ego wrote a check his acting chops couldn't cash.
I think both comic and movie are too distinct to be compared, comic Namor have some absolutely iconic moments. But the point is… not every saga or version of a character works in live action and I think both BP movies understood this really well; Wakanda and Talocan are visually richer than most modern civilizations but you still feel it grounded and that reflects directly in their leaders. The Rock could put on the performance of his career, DCU’s visual identity is not developed enough to pull off whole civilizations and make us care, besides the amazons that were ok all other attempts fell flat.
I wouldn't say so, the concept of "Namor" in the movies much more thought out. But comics Namor has done so much already outside of just his basic introduction/concept that further flesh out his character. Like when the incursions happened, Namor was the one to pull the trigger and destroys an entire universe because the rest of the Illuminatis couldn't bring themselves to do it; He did it without any hesitation, anything to save his country.
I mean, you can't say a character is better just because the derivation of his name comes from a more meaningful place. And if you want to talk about the meta-reason: It's not like MCU Namor's name is actually derived from "sin amor". It's derived from the comics where that is his name. His name was always going to be Namor regardless because that is his name in the comics. "Sin Amor" is just the reasoning they made up to make his name make sense in the movie.
It's funny that two such similar characters should appear in movies at about the same time. The other thing I kept thinking about is how much the comics versions of Black Adam and Namor physically resemble each other. Seriously, they look like the same guy but with a different costume and powers
The rock is just the rock in all his movies now. There may be some fatigue to seeing that. That's why The Rundown to me is his best work. As for Namor in the MCU? Best character to come out of phase 4. Huerta really delivered. That scene where he descends to his throne and does the Kamehameha greeting with the ominous blaring horns soundtrack? So sick
Well the character isn't Hispanic or Latino in the comics he's a white man, probably Roman cause he's king of Atlantis. It's ok to say his name in a non Spanish way cause that's his original name. Nay-more the submariner is how his name was originally pronounced even tho the new way sounds cooler with the Spanish flair to it
Bueno, así lo pronuncian los estadounidenses así que me pareció bien por ser culturas diferentes, es más un detalle que los de Talokan lo pronuncien como nosotros
@@SuperSaiyen64 Funny enough you say that cause Namor in the comics definitely and clearly has Asian features. He's a mutant, so he's not any human race, well ethnicity, but he's definitely not white...at all. Again, I'd say he's Asian in the comics. 😂😂😂
His also supposed to be middle eastern but instead they cast the rock to play him who just plays himself in every filmhe couldn't even be bothered to do a middle eastern accent
Yeah. I wonder why they decided to not at least give him the pointy ears? I bet Dwayne Johnson could've pulled it off. I also doubt it's to keep it "realistic" because he's supposed to be a human, but come on, in a universe where a 5th dimensional being that idolizes Batman exists does it really matter?
@@duck-ew5zs I think it's simply wasn't comfortable enough for the Rock? I mean we never seen him take a job where he had to wear any prostetic or makeup
Not only was he a better Black Adam than Black Adam, he's a better Killmonger than Killmonger. Their plans were roughly the same, but it's a lot easier to buy into Namor's logic (I think you're right, because of the presence of Val and the CIA plotline in addition to the so we'll done flashback scene).
Killmonger was a villain, the fact that you are comparing him to antiheroes shies how well-fleshed he was. He was supposed to be irredeemable but people could see where he was coming from. Namor works just as well as an antihero.
I think an even better argument for an anti hero than Namor would be Erik Kilmonger. Half the audience chose Chadwick's BP, and the other half that understood the truth, sided with Kilmonger. The same argument can be said over Professor X and Magneto.
This is the comment I've been looking for. It's strange because Chadwick specifically stated that he sees Erik Killmonger as the protagonist in the first film, and people hardly talk about it.
I was SHOCKED when Namor started killing people in the opening scene of the movie. Like, he MURDERED people with no mercy. I was also shocked when Black Adam started gruesomely killing people, during which our food arrived and we were eating cheesy mozzarella sticks while burnt bodies and entrails appeared on screen. The Black Adam deaths were brutul, but you're right. Namor's deaths were better and more shocking. I was SO confused as to why they kept on showing us Eternum weakening Black Adam when that never actually amounted to something. you'd think they were gonna use it on him. But they don't even use it when he's sent to prison!
Namor is more of a centrist a person who’s motivation is based on self interest. He has teamed up with other Marvel heroes but he’s also teamed with villains like Doctor Doom. Namor is just in it for himself and what he wants.
Namor actually think like 4D chess. He may realize the difference between technology gap between human and talokan, so he gamble but the results is win-win solution . talokan lose like he said became stronger through aliance because they can trade and share technology. if talokan win they Will gain technology and information
I never looked at Val's role like that until you pointed it out. Now I have a better appreciation for her character. Excellent point, Mr. Nando v Movies! (Not to be confused with Mr. Sunday Movies!)
I'm wondering if it has anything to do with how long Black Adam was in production? I feel like pre Avengers he would have worked as a more solid anti-hero on the basis of fighting the other heroes, but now that's basically just how superheroes say hi in these things.
How Namor was portrayed in Black Panther is what should have been the portrayal of Black Adam. I like The Rock but he didn't gave justice to his character
I think Namor held back a lot with Wakanda and Shuri because he eventually wanted them as an ally. His whole intent was to work with Shuri and not Ramonda so I doubt he feels any guilt over removing her. He probably felt that she was the obstacle to a would be union between Wakanda and Talokan and at the end we find this to be true. I think he waited to see what Shuri would choose and chose not to attempt fighting back. Seeding his mom in her was a sign to him to accept her terms.
There's an argument going around that Namor is actually an "anti-villain," which is basically a villain with a moral code (rather than a hero that lacks one). Thoughts on this seemingly new classification?
Namor was a far better villain than Killmonger, because unlike Killmonger, Namor's goal, motivation, backstory are all in accord and consistent, he never hates the world, he just has no love for it From begining to end he has always been someone who wants to protect his people, and ever since Wakanda compromised Talokan by revealing vibranium to the world, Namor plans to wage war on the surface world before they invade Talokan over vibranium first, which the movie even shown that Wakanda was attacked by the rest of the world multiple times for the same reason It makes perfect sense that he will give Wakanda the ultimatum, because if Wakanda denied the alliance, then Talokan has no chance winning the war against the surface world with Wakanda be on the other side, so the only tactical decision that makes sense is to destry Wakanda first, then the rest of the world pose no threat without Wakanda's support In the end his goal is still the same, but after the truce now his plan is to wait for the surface world to eventually wage war on Wakanda, so they will come to their only ally Talokan for help, then he can destroy the world together with Wakanda under a just cause
I’d argue that Namor Killmonger are foils of each other. One operates violently because of a lack of love for a world he is a part of and love for his people, the other acts violently due to a hatred and rage against a world that literally took everything he loved. They’re similar.
Kilmonger has the same points throughout the film: He wants to rule wakanda so he can help black people in the outside world. He sees the world as the enemy and won’t stop till it burns. It’s pretty consistent throughout the story. Blaming the world is childish BUT that’s the whole point. Kilmonger is still that same little boy who saw his father dead on the ground years later
@@kingkong9892 only Killmonger has no real connection to his motives outside of blatant racism. He only cares about black people because of their skin color and hates white people because of their skin color as well. That's basically his entire character. Unlike Namor he wasn't raised in Wakanda or entrusted as it's ruler he has no real connection to Wakanda outside of his father. If anything he has more reason to hate Wakanda than white people since it was wakandans that killed his father and that's the only piece of backstory we get for Killmonger. Killmonger was never remotely close to the antihero line he's probably one of the most irredeemable villians in the MCU on the same tier as Red skull
@@OK-yy6qz Idk if everything went over your head but he doesn’t love all black people. His motive is to make wakanda the ruling kingdom of the world because he feels that if they don’t conquer others, others will conquer them and because he feels the US is corrupt and needs to be taken down. He also feels wakanda hasn’t done enough to help these struggling people in the USA and sees wakandans (black people) as hypocrites. So his motive is to conquer the rest of the world and by doing this fox wakandas ways. This is the part of his motive that’s evil but you can see where he’s coming from sort of. But it is really just a cover that allows him to take his anger out on the world. Namor and kilmonger have similar motives, they both want to conquer the rest of the world before it conquers them but Namor does it from a wholesome place of protecting his people while Kilmonger really just wants power and control so he can take out his anger on the rest of the world.
Quite a spectacular analysis, makes me fear that when a namor movie comes out they will remove all the features introduced in Black Panther 2 because "that's not something a protagonic hero does"
When they revealed Black Adams son was the original champion, I thought they were gonna show us that Adam killed his own son to steal his power. I liked the movie and the character as it was but this wouldve been Way better and more inline with evil comic black adam
Ever since I saw this movie like 2 days after it came out I've been saying exactly this, I usually phrase it like "Man Black Panther 2 really went and gave us a better adaptation of Black Adam than the Black Adam movie did."
I knew the rock was gonna pull this stunt turning black Adam a villain into a antihero more so hero. Everyone was on his hype train and it backfired. Same thing happened with Mystique and Harley Quinn.
The Rock is too high on himself to be able to make himself "look bad". That's why he's not really an actor, he's an action hero. It's like Stallone or Schwarzenegger.
3:04 actually this makes a lot of sense.. black adam and namor have a lot in common.. they are heroes to their nations but their nation relation to the rest of the world is rather complicated.. if done correctly this could be very relevant to today world.
One of my favorite characteristics of Namor was when he would come out of the water, he would slick his hair up. Idk, it just looks asthetically cool, and you know he does it to show off because whenever he gets out of the water during a fight, he doesn't do it.
I was excited hearing superman would be back and reprise his role in black adam. But after the credits rolled and made it back to my house I was struck by overwhelming grief as the reality of the situation hit me. The Rock is playing Black Adam. The same rock who derailed and split up a franchise because he couldn't be punched one more time than another actor. The same rock who can't lose a fight because his "brand" has become a "macho man". Suddenly the concept of a Black Adam/Superman movie where they go to toe to toe has died as quickly as it was born. The Rock kills any excitement I had moving forward because if he was in a JL movie I'm sure he would have a whole scene where he either flat out stomps Darkseid or Darkseid "beats him" (knocks him out or some bs) and then at the end Black Adam comes back and finishes it. It's really worrying
Boiled down to three words that every creative probably knows: show, don't tell. Black Adam exposits A LOT (Rashoman style story-telling or not), Wakanda Forever does not (at least, when it comes to Talokan. Namor's backstory on the other hand...).
I LOVE Namor. He really is the perfect anti hero. In BPWF you really feel the threat level that the Submariner brings especially when he invades Wakanda twice. But I feel like Namor cares about his people more than Black Adam. (My opinion) I see Namor as a king that is actually scared to loose or fail his kingdom therefore he will do ANYTHING to protect them.
@@RoxandDavid I didn't say it was the most hated film or anything like that just that it was disappointing. Most films have an audience that appreciates the film even if the critics and general audience dont like it. To say 'everyone' loved it warranted my response
I'm just glad someone finally addressed the similarities in Wakanda and Kahndak! both super advanced civilizations due to a rare metal "only found in that spot" (until we learn later that vibranium is also found in the Atlantic Ocean) Eternium and vibranium are both able to power advanced weaponry and energy for the people.
Who would have guessed Marvel would do a better anti hero character than DC. And we have been comparing Marvel and DC forever, like any other rivalry, nothing wrong with competition.
Namor, and by extension- Wakanda Forever succeeded so well in portraying the anti hero because they truly raised the stakes, and the deaths of the people held so much more weight . And I'm not even trying to trash on DC because Marvel has this problem too of not having more grounded stories like if you see the recent stuff it like guy dies, hero makes joke about it . there is just no sentimentality to superhero films anymore
I just really wish they were allowed to make a Namor solo film, and that's mostly down to loving Tenoch Huerta's depiction of him. A sad inversion of the Hulk, my favourite superhero but at this stage I would be weary of a solo film due to not liking his MCU depiction at this stage, but neither can get one anyway due to the weird Universal rights situation.
Black Adam didn't have the weight that Wakanda Forever had. Coogler always said that Black Panther has always been a political character that talked deep issues. He fought the hate mongers in the comics
Honestly the biggest mistake with Black Adam was making it about Black Adam. Adam works as a focus, but only after being established as a villain. Look at 52, Adam's arc is amazing in that miniseries of comics, but it only works because up until that point he was Shazam/Capt. Marvel's main villain (next to Dr. Savana). With The Rock that's never going to happen though, because he'll never play a villain that doesn't get equal billing to the hero. He'll never lose, he'll either draw at best or win at worst.
@@NandovMovies Someone in the comments section in another video mentions that Shuri had to put on a face full of makeup before battle in BP1 and Endgame. It never occurred to me... So how many people die in between her putting white dots and mascara for 5 minutes?
For the record, just about any dark-skinned person knows that the US would never let Talokan exist without having to see it explained. Especially if they're Central/South American
I follow a lot of artists that do production work on the Marvel movies and they all seem to consistently use "Talokanil" as the name for the citizens of Talokan.
One of the things i like about MCU Namor, is that quite literally after breaking into Wakanda, he says "This is a beautiful country" (or something like that)
The Rock having a Hulk-Hogan-esque movie contract makes his characters creatively dull. Except it’s worse than Hogan’s WCW contract because at least Hogan could lose.
That's what I was thinking about black adam. I hated that they didn't lean more into the villainous side of the anti hero. He doesn't cross the line. He is simply a hero that kills bad guys. I would've even loved if he got slowly corrupted and became a full villain by the end and took the country over for himself and forced the jsa to never set foot inside again. But like his character is so uninteresting as is.
