Narrated D&D Story: Assassin Makes The Paladin Question His Morals With A Single Phrase 

"Would you kill us for the right price?" "I don't know, would you kill us for the right deity?"

Title: “Assassin makes Paladin question his morals with ONE phrase...” Me: (10 minutes in)...

My heart dropped when I heard the bit about him hiding a crudely written letter in his pocket. Just... damn...

For some reason, this reminds me of a line from Rurouni Kenshin. "The art of swordsmanship is the art of murder. No amount of ornamental words will change that." -Seijuro Hiko

An assassin that feels guilt when killing innocents, even if they’re goblins. Inanis seems interesting.

The edgelord who sits in the dark corner of the tavern vs the "Lawful Good Paladin means I can do no wrong".

It's those last words: "Goodnight.... Valeria." They resonate like crazy. It shows where exactly his loyalties lie, and the fact he is attached to the party members. It's like he said, while they are part of a team, trust is paramount. He may have miffed her off, but he spared her feelings, her beliefs.

"How can you sleep soundly at night with all of the terrible things you have done?" "Because, Paladin, we've done them together."

It's very dangerous to assume that just because you're righteous, that you're always right.

I personally find it interesting how the Assassin hid something from the party in order to spare their feelings, since they'd be devastated if they found the note while he would be able to shoulder the revelation. He may not let it on but it is obvious to me that the Assassin does care for them.

“Single phrase” “14 minutes long” *Something ain’t adding up chief*

The assassin seems morally better off since he at least admits that he's done evil things and almost sounds like he's trying to atone for it with his story. Meanwhile the paladin comes from privilege and is in denial about who they are and even their own actions.

“You’re a warrior, a professional soldier and killer, no matter who’s banner you march under or for what cause you claim to justify your deeds. You say you kill for honor, justice and glory, yet in practice you are no different than I. Just another killer for hire. All knights, no matter how shining and well polished the armor, no matter the airs and pageantry, no matter how seemingly pure and just, are ultimately no more than murderers with a fancy title and good press. The only real difference between us is that I am honest about what I am and what I do, both to myself and to others.” -Amon Zehirim, my oddly philosophical and warrior-poet style NE assassin speaking to our group’s stereotypical, zealotous and miopic LG paladin.

"Be it battle swinging steel and spells flying, or a silent blade in the rib-cage while he sleeps. Dead is Dead." .......He's not wrong

"It's funny. Every crook I meet wants to tell me how much I'm just like them." - Edward Elric to Psiren, Fullmetal Alchemist

Something similar happened to me on my second DnD character, coincidentally also with Paladin named Valeria. Bandits, having raided and pillaged a nearby town. We were hired to find them and exact justice. We found them camped nearby, about a day's journey from the town. We stole upon them in their sleep. They never stood a chance. Only after did we learn that they're leader, who'd been orchestrating the raids, was prepping some manner of ritual, with the raids intended to collect material components. These poor sods had grown disenchanted with their cultish leader and were trying to return the stolen goods to the town and warn of the impending danger. Always investigate, and always use the pen before resorting to the sword.

Here's a quote. "Many who live deserve death. Many who die deserve life. Can you give them that?" Gandalf

Paladin: "How can you sleep without a problem after everything you have done?!" Assasin: "I don't.... I never did" Yo, that feeling of the assasin having more humanity than the paladin just makes me want to reedo all my paladins.

If i was playing the Assassin and the Paladin asked me how i can sleep at night with all the terrible things that i've done, i would have probably thrown the letter on the table and walked away, saying "Good night Paladin. Sleep tight"...

this reminds me of two characters I'm currently playing, so here's a quote from both of them: "One of the things mercenary life taught me, is that it doesn't care who you are. When you accept a job, the only thing that matters is integrity, morality is off the table. I've been in sieges, exterminations, escort jobs... and in all of these I fought and killed people that could have easily been fighting alongside me if they hadn't taken a job from the other side. people like me... hell maybe that had it even worse than me. You want morality to be a factor in your career? Do that before you say yes." - Varnael, elven mercenary (NG Fighter), talking to her new recruits. "You knife-ears are all alike, claiming to be righteously defending your lands from 'the invading outsiders' but let me tell you something, I live on the roads and you know what I see? caravans, mercenaries, refugees... dead with arrows on their throats, their bodies strung up as warnings. I don't live a proud life, I scavenge whatever I can from scenes like these to make a living, but you're no better than me. In fact, you may be worse, seeing as you're not aware of what you are." - Snandor Grimhide, dwarf scanvenger (LN Ranger), to his wild elf captors.

“The greatest sin of all kind is the sin of ignorance. To ignorantly rush in to a battle without preparation; to ignorantly slaughter with regards to nothing but the kill; to ignorantly proclaim yourself a champion of your chosen path; and finally, upon learning a horrid truth, to ignorantly proclaim oneself innocent of their deeds. Truly, no sin can be greater than this, no truth to cut as deep as these words: be not ignorant, be mindful and vigilant” A line my rogue learned years ago and follows to this very day

I can already picture him revealing the letter, and her potential, and slightly passable justification P: "You hid this?! I should kill you where you stand! You had the choice to act upon what you knew, and did nothing! I would never have done this, had I had reason to reconsider." R: "Reason to reconsider? We were not paid to thin a group of warriors. We were not paid to kill an ambitious chieftain or a shaman under the sway of a fiend. We were paid for an extermination, isn't that reason enough for the righteous to reconsider?"

I think the single phrase comes at the end, when he uses Valeria's name. Especially after saying he doesn't use names for a reason. I also believe, at least from this brief view of a campaign, that this is a healthy explanation and introduction to motives, morality, and character direction. Which is important. My second belief I'm drawing from this, which could be accidental in accomplishment, is reinforcing the 'pcs don't kill pcs' gentle people's rule.

8:42 "We had to trust each other. To do otherwise, would be fatal." And trust me, you don't want to play F.A.T.A.L

“I’m gonna get a drink now, bye” most valid of responses to That

"Assassin Tries To Make The Paladin Question His Morals During A 14 Minute Debate"

Inanis is awesome. Well developed character, and in this case correct.

I went through this trying to find the 'single phrase' that caused this to happen, but I couldn't find it. I was waiting for it at the end and the buildup was there but then it just kinda ended on implication than an actual phrase, which confused me. While going through this I was expecting the assassin to eventually say something along the lines of, "The only difference between you and I is that I feel remorse for those that I kill." as that's what this whole thing seemed to be leading up to.

I like that "as long as it is effective" assassin type so much. One reason why blade to the sleeping target from shadows would be morally superior would be that it doesn't need to involve others. Say you are going against evil leader of country. It is unlikely that all the people of that country would be evil. So neither would all who fight for the evil leaders behalf be evil. So why kill thousands, some evil, some not, just to face the evil when you could take the not honorable route and kill just the one behind the problems and be done with it. Isn't the assassination well done the option that minimizes the suffering of unrelated and because of that, also the most moral option, even if you have to sacrifice your personal morals to be effective with your means?

Story: *about two party members fighting* Me: *favorite character is the story within the story character which is Hechik the Goblin*

"you sleep rather soundly....for a murderer." -lucien lachance

“We are not the same, I’m a soldier, and you’re a serial killer who takes credit cards!” Thought this quote fit well but I gotta say I side with the rogue on this one

"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." -Winston Churchill, British statesman

"You presume so much" has so much meaning behind it o.o Inanis feels like a rich character to develop, and see developing :3

I somehow thought the end of the story would be something like this: P: “how can you sleep at night...” R: “I can’t because I consider the possibility that I have done many wrong things. Things that haunt me each day.” After a pause he continues turning around at the doorstep R: “Maybe you should think about why you can sleep like an angel, Paladin.”

I want to know the full story of these characters' adventures. I want to know how the Paladin reacts when she finds out the truth, how she discovers it, see the relationship between the two of them grow. Also I love how he admitted his attachment to her with the use of her name, that was so sweet

The paladin is much more dangerous than the assassin if you convince/deceive the paladin he will exterminate a village for no gold at all but the assasin will need gold for each person

honestly, I would've dropped the letter as I walked away. An amazing story like always can't wait for more.

The reveal of the letter at the end definitely makes this “argument” feel a little one sided. I get the need for the Paladin’s Righteous personality, that kind of goes with the character. But in this scenario the Assassin is taking the role of someone who has hidden a great pain from someone who needs to believe she is without flaw. It’s also conflicting with the title of the video. Should say Assassin spares Paladin her beliefs or something to that effect. The argument is less of an argument and more of a stance on character morals. The Paladin never wavers in my opinion. This was a good vid though! Thoroughly enjoyed and I am definitely going to subscribe and watch the rest lol

For everyone asking what the single phrase mentioned in the title is, its "We are the same." Inanis said it about 5 seconds before the story starts.

It's funny. Most of my characters have been paladins. And there have been cases of taking up bounties to clear out traditional "monsters" from an area. But the big thing is, my paladins almost always stop to consider accepting a sign of surrender. Even if the monster isn't speaking Common, you can tell by body language whether or not they want to continue fighting or were even aggressive to begin with. There is more to being a paladin than just going around smiting enemies. Paladins are supposed to be diplomats, healers, and all around symbols of peace and comfort. It's a shame that so many people don't stop to think of the other roles a Paladin can fill outside of combat. A good paladin would welcome the chance to redeem someone who wishes to genuinely better their life. A good paladin would recognize the dichotomy between the noble savage and the savage noble.

Reminds me of a character I played once: a Paladin who was so fanatically devoted to his religion that he would often behave in surprisingly cruel ways and justify it with “God wills it”. Like jamming a dagger into a captured NPC’s hand to interrogate him. Spanish Inquisition much? The funny thing is, despite inflicting such evils upon his enemies, he truly believed that he was doing the right thing. Yes, I played him mostly for the shock value. Not everyone who claims to be “lawful good” really is... Even if they believe they are. That’s a point I wanted to make.

Who's right aside, can we just take a minute to talk about how good was that RPing of the players ? Like wow, those punchlines and all, i would loooove to DM a party like that ^^

"How can you sleep at night?!" "... I can't."

Assassin’s Patron: “Kill this man and I’ll reward you handsomely.” Town’s Mayor; “Kill these creatures and I’ll reward you handsomely.” Both operate under the impetus of removing an obstacle to their own aggrandizement and personal gain. The Patron from having a business competitor removed. The Mayor from having a goblin settlement that uses resources that “should belong to his own people”, regardless of right or true entitlement. The Paladin allows the Assassin, the Bard, the Mage, to use their crafts to further her own goals without thought of consequence. The Assassin accompanies the group for their collective talents and strengths and knows that though they may not share his motivations, they kill and loot the dead and claim bounties just as eagerly. He does it with eyes open, seeing what is; She paints herself a pretty pretty princess of a picture and only calls things by names that do not evoke an imagery of the horror and violence that she creates by actions and inactions of her own two hands. Truth. Is the same from both sides of the looking-glass.

Should've ended with "You don't speak Goblin."

I LOVE this sort of moral questioning. Had something similar happen when I played an assassin. Ended up turning the paladin to the "mercenaries guild" but only for causes he agreed with. Was a great use of his skills :) hehehe. His player was a good friend of mine and we both enjoyed how everything played out. We still laugh about it to this day :)

"Assassin makes paladin question his morals with a single statement". 14 minutes later, paladin still paladinning.

I think, it's not a question of who is in the right or wrong. Rather, it's an endearing tale of how the assassin is a better person than he wants to admit. The paladin's motivation was just; she had no way to know that the goblins were trying to change. And, assuming there isn't an absurd chain of lies going on, there was reason to kill goblins as they had been terrorizing the nearby village for years. A sudden, late, hidden change of heart doesn't make up for past crimes. Regardless of that though; knowing that they had killed someone trying to convert goblins and make progress in society would have sent the party into depression. The assassin could have shown them the letter and won his argument instantly; but he didn't. And this revealed that he actually did have some form of honor and kindness, even if the paladin couldn't see it.

"How do I know you're not going to accept a contract to kill us?" "...How do I know you're not going to decide I'm too selfish and hateful for your opinion on what is 'good' and 'honorable' enough and 'righteously' kill me for the greater good?"

I feel that both are very similar. The biggest reason why is that Valeria had a lot of pride in herself. Her argument against Inanis was that she would never stoop down to his level, which in fact she was already doing so when she believed that all of her actions are morally justified.

Every story has a villain and a hero. Every mark in history has a perspective. The world is never black and white, but full of grey shades. In the end, all actions have a consequence to someone and it is you who have to live with them. I also know deep down there's more than one side to every story.

This reminds me of a conversation between two paladins, one was mine and the other was another player who was my squire. I don't remember the exact words but I said something like this. "We can fight for honor, faith and justice ... but in the end we all fight and kill as assassins of our gods and ideals. Don't judge too hastily, because in the end we are all the same when our hands are forced. Pray to the gods that they show the way that does not lead to bloodshed and make their sword always the last option, since we are guardians of peace, not heralds of death." Sorry if something sounds wrong, English is not my native language, but I think I show my point as a paladin player. xD

That is by far the best roleplayed Assassin I've ever heard of.

I want more of Innanis. I really love and felt inspired by his perspective and how deep of a character he is.

Actual chills from that story, holy shit those players played beautifully.

This reminds me of the story of chop having a chat with the groups fighter. Similar problem, just far more comical. Chop was a Goblin cook who was once the assistant of a royal family. He was the cooks assistant, a thief who stole and gathered various herbs, items and whatever he was told. The fighter Arinn was a tall noble human, who knew nothing but honor, and the service of those beneath him. As far as he was concerned, he was never doing wrong when he killed the less fortunate and the weak. Two entirely different backgrounds, as one was practically a slave, and the other a master. Arinn was the to be lord of his hometown in a few years, and his father sent him away to explore and learn the surrounding area. Sent with him was a group of hired mercenary, most of which didn't even know each other. Along with them, they were sent with a newly acquired slave, a youngish goblin named Chop, as that was his favorite word in the very broken English he spoke. The Paladin Azimoth of the party was against the creature always being in shackles, and the Druid Rose didn't care too much. The ranger Valinna, being the only one who spoke goblin became his close friend early on, and the two grew a fantastic bond. It had been several months of travel, and the goblin chop was always running from one side of the road to another, acting as a scout for the noble he served, learning new segments of English each passing day. He was kept under close watch by Arinn while the others always seemed to sit comfortably atop their slow walking horses, chatting about their past experiences with the nearby land, often laughing about the situation. It wasn't till chop vanished from view that the noble began to yell and get angry, a common thing for him. Arinn: _"Chop! Get your ass back here now! This is no time for your damn sense of humour!"_ A few moments went by without a single response from the goblin, and the ranger party grew worried. It wasnt until they stopped did they discover why chop went silent. Valinna had found him keying unconscious, hear death, as he made attempts to disarm a trap and rolled a nat1. When he came to consciousness a few hours later, he came to with Valinna arguing with Arinn about the Chop's importance to the group. It was an argument chop made an attempt to settle. Valinna: _"...Is essential. No one else here can deactivate those traps, and from what I saw, they could have pierced that armour of yours easily."_ Arinn: _"He clearly set the damn thing, you saw how crude it's design was. Their is no telling what he has in that bag, and how many more he may have. I say we kill him, after all, he's only worth a few silver."_ Valinna: _"Right, cause all you people care for is your damn money. You nobles view everything as coin, it's no wonder your people are on the verge of revolting."_ Arinn: _"They are on the verge of revolting because someone killed the royal family almost fifteen months ago. Not because of the noble houses."_ It was at this point, chop would chime in and begin to speak. It would not be in his favor however, as the conversation went from bad to worse. Chop: _"Why we talk shiny in late sun? Sun is napping soon, we nap too?"_ Arinn: _"Oh good, the little green filth is conscious. Perhaps we could ask him if you want to know the truth, but there is no point in asking a goblin anything. They will always lie to save their own skins."_ Valinna: _"When has Chop lied to us? Since day one, he has been your loyal slave, cooking for you, gathering food and handing you every valuable he earns. Only things you permit him to carry is a rusty short sword, some clothes and a magical bag."_ Chop: _"Why chop in trouble? Did chop anger new master?"_ Arinn: _"Yes you angered me, you tried to have us killed. Come on you worthless green filth, show us what you have in your bag."_ Chop: _"I... Why does master want chop belongings? Chop no do notting wrong."_ Scared out of his mind, chop began to open his bag, removing from the bag of holding various items, such as spices, pots, pans, mushrooms, and a royal seal of the kingdoms chef. The revealing of this item startled everyone in the party, and it was here that Arinn went into a blind rage. Arinn: _"You worthless filth, you stole that from the royal palace after they were all killed, didn't you? I..."_ Azimoth: _"Knock it off Arinn, let chop explain. Do not forget that all creatures serve a purpose."_ Arinn: _"Purpose my ass, this filth likely killed the royal family."_ Chop sat in silence as he drew two final things from his bag of holding, one being a letter, and the other, a medallion off the prince. By this point Arinn was held by Valinna and Azimoth, to keep him from attacking chop who was hiding behind rose. Chop: _"Chop no do it purpose, chop obey master. Master have chop find speckled shrooms and add it to stew. Hide say so, read, read."_ Rose being the only other member of the party who could read goblin had red the letter a loud, translating it word for word so Arinn could hear everything. Rose: _"Chop, find the speckled mushrooms beneath the willow tree, and bring me back seven stems. As promised, I will give you the shiny neck accessory I was given by the prince. I will also show you what the stems makes afterwords. Signed Agro T. Harbor."_ Arinn: _"Harbor, the man who stole the crowns of the royal family. What the hell was he doing in the royal palace?"_ Chop: _"He wa..."_ Arinn: _"As your new master, I demand you say nothing or I will remove your head."_ Valinna: _"It's obvious, Harbor was disguised as the royal cook, it also explains why chop is good at stealing, killing, and picking locks."_ Arinn: _"It means chop willingly collaborated with a known criminal. He should be condemned for what he's done."_ Valinna: _"How about an alternative. You hand chop over to me or Azimoth, and we'll handle what happens to him. I'll even pay you double what your father payed."_ Arinn: _"Fine, take the damn thing. However, don't be surprised if he manages to run off."_ After handing over the gold, the contract binding chop to service was changed to say Valinna, and chop immediately hid behind her. After night began to fall, Valinna and chop stayed up to chat, about what happened the night of the murder. Unknowing to them, that Arinn was listening. Valinna: _"How did it go down, how long has he been present in the castle?"_ Chop: _"Thirteen seasons, all it was. Chop not mean to harm, chop cook, chop chop. Master bought chop from slaver, and chop live in many bad places. Chop lose finger, toe, get bit by food. Master get mad at chop when chop no cook, so chop learn fastest. After time chop and master move into big shiny place, wall blind chop and cooking area be best and help chop. Master act kind, and beat chop when chop disobey. In time he have chop steal, and teach chop best way to kill. When people poisoned, chop get framed and sold as slave, and now chop get serve you."_ Valinna: _"You were taught nothing but how to harm. Your old master taught you horrible things, lots of it."_ Chop: _"Master shiny armour not bad, he tell but never hit. Chop like master, but now chop serve you. Chop ask no hit."_ Valinna: _"Don't worry chop, I won't hit you. Just don't harm any of us, ok?"_ Chop: _"Chop no betray, chop like you, all you."_ --- --- --- This is the story of chop. It doesn't have a good or bad ending, just an ending. The end of the campaign was great, and chop is free. ^^

This is such a well-crafted story! However, the Assassin was right to withhold the letter. You break a Paladin's morals, you lose their effectiveness as a role.

“I am willing to sink to levels unfathomable to you…I am willing to sink to levels unfathomable to you in order to achieve my objectives.” Me: Wait did he…. *goes back 5seconds* Yep.

Assassin: gets paid in gold by someone more powerful to kill someone. Paladin: gets paid in faith by something more powerful to kill something. Paladins are just a more generic version of assassins.

A thing I always told my Marines when I was Sergeant: None of you are ever going to be able to claim to be 'innocent' again, and you have more in common with the men trying to kill you than you will ever have with the men who ordered you here.

“Righteous and Justice” can often cloud one’s judgement and blind them to what could be right before their very eyes. This was a good story and fantastic RP among this group’s players

Beautiful, I'd love to see an animated scene if this, it could totally stand on it's own as a morality paradigm.

> Everyone "Yes, the world is shades of grey!" > Also Everyone: sides with the assassin. Kind of pointless to ask who's right if this video does silently taking one side over the other. I know he's cool and he has his reason, but pretend that a paladin is a witless asshole and potential murder just because she (or he) believes in something, is still believing in a black and white world, it is just our personal idea of black and white. I prefere to listen to this and understand both of them, not just the coolest one.

I honestly thought that Inanis actually spoke the goblin tongue and heard all he was trying to say.

"There is a difference between a mercenary and an murderer. Murderers make no qualm what flag you fly, what rules you play by. Mercenaries on the other hand...good ones, anyway,...." - Vanik, Dwarf Rogue, LN

RIP Hechik, you will not be forgotten.

Man do I love the narrative story's, the way you tell them and the story's themselves love every second of it.

This may fall on deaf ears by this point, but I thought I’d throw in my philosophical two cents. I’d agree that viewing the world as stark black-and-white isn’t the best idea, but viewing it as the other extreme: only grey-and-gray, is another arguably unhealthy view. Believing everyone is not-so-different from you blinds you to the fact that they may be not-so-similar.

Everyone seems to be missing something here. Nobody is in the right here. The assassin is just trying to convey to the Paladin things aren't always black and white. They were hired to clear out a marauding goblin village, which is pretty typical. Goblins as a race do not really do diplomacy beyond the "shotgun diplomacy" route. This is a common occurance. The goblin wanting to reach out and work with the village their tribe had been raiding for years is INCREDIBLY UNUSUAL for their species. The party and village was fully justified in clearing them out, especially if there had been a raid recently. They just happened to get there in the midst of changing tides. The assassin found this out after the fact. They will likely not assault a goblin tribe without discretion after this, for the first time finding evidence that they are capable of diplomacy. The assassin wanted to teach the Paladin that same lesson....without breaking their resolve. Why not just be blunt with the paladin? Cause a Paladin draws their power from their faith and resolve in their oath. If the assassin just revealed the letter, that paladin would be shaken. Would probably lose levels, it would actively hurt them. The assassin knows this, and as we see at the end, they truly care for the paladin. And you don't hurt your friends.

Here is a good quote from my group. "The name of the game is justified killing, no matter who or what you are."

Assassin makes a paladin question her morales with a simple phrase...after many, many, many words. There, fixed your headline.

Duuuuude. That ending hit hard. And serves as a good reminder to play an evil character, so you don't care about the squishy feelings.

Gentlemen. This is why you always research your targets beforehand. Honestly the funny part is this scene usually plays out the other way around. The paladin wanting to see if they can resolve an issue without conflict. The Assassin choosing to kill instead of letting something get the chance to kill them. Good to see it work both ways.

I can get behind the Assassin's reasoning as I've been wanting to play a necromancer haunted by the slaughter of her village by a necromancer. She has sworn justice and revenge exacted through the same fate as her people.

I made a god of death die by breaking the fourth wall and showing him that he is not real

What if when Valeria asked Inanis what's stopping him from accepting a contract on them. He responded with "What's stopping you from killing us under your gods command" or when she says she fights Honorably he says "while you'd rather fight in wars honorably and let men die id rather kill their king or general and let those men go home to their families"

" He Who Fights Monsters, should to it that He Himself does not become a Monster Himself " Pretty much sums up what he was trying to teach the Paladin, it's an easy thing to forget for any hero, blinded by there faith or quest for revenge. Lives are Lives, be they goblins, humans or Drow and often things are not so black and white as they seem.

Assassin: (holds up the coin used in the story) “morality is never black and white. (Turns coin over) “there are two sides to every story.”

"How do you aleep at night after the terrible things you've done?!" "On a bed, under a blanket, in a room, right next to *yours."*

This is why paladins should always take the approach of "I deal with greater evils, not petty squabbles." The oath of vengeance. Through this logic you enable your character to adventure with "evil" characters so long as they are less evil than whatever you are seeking to destroy.

Man, that didn't end how I thought it would. If I was the Assassin, I would have slid the piece of parchment across the table. "I research my targets, because there is usually more than meets the eye." *Walks from table*

This was AMAZINGLY written. Would love to read/hear more about this party

That's certainly the best story I've ever listen to on this channel. Wow... just wow... I was hooked

"Flying under the banner of our crusade doesn't matter, as much as the gold we make to alot of men in our ranks, we are killers, trained in the arts of war, with your arrows and Hadvar's daggers, we spill blood, evil or not it's life. I will always think of what is and what was in the lives of our enemies. If I wasn't for me, you probably would have killed my Beloved Sapphire, has she not gained your trust? She was a "No good petty thief" in your eyes, and mean like you. I choose to see the good in her, which is why she is here and helping us to rid the lands of the dragon cult. I'll say it again, following OUR banner doesn't make the lives you kill Evil. We are soldier we are all hired killers. You may not fight for the gold, but you get it so you can live. Stay true to our cause but NEVER forget the lives we take." -Davish Wind-Caller The NG Fighter

There's a certain saying about faith "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." Matthew 7:15 To me, it means not to be blinded by others nor oneself.

He's exactly right and expresses something to many people miss, shining morals and good intentions don't change what the action you're preforming is, denying those actions to be the same due to the and sence of right or wrong/good or evil is what truly lowers those who claim themselves to be good below those who recognize themselves for what they truly are.

Like the Fabled Great One once said “Is It Better To Be Born Good Or To Overcome Your Evil Nature Through Great Effort”

"Two weeks ago, I freed a Kobold tribe from enslavement by drow. I helped defeat a cult dedicated to the destruction of the world without permanent injury to the cultists. I took the blows intended for innocents without striking back, helping stop a riot. And you?" (My NG Fighter's response) ... I should also note, the Paladin in this story is a horrible strawman. It is the most ridiculous, exaggerated, cliche Paladin. In other words, it's a ridiculous victory against a hollow opponant.

This same debate Shirou has with himself at the end of F:SN UBW. No matter who you are, what you do, and for what cause you fight, there is always suffering at the hands of so-called, self-proclaimed "heroes". When lives are ended, there is always suffering from someone, whether the slain themself during the act or those who follow. Inanis is correct in this scenario. Death for gain is a plague, one we all suffer from.

I freaking love how this kind story goes, it is no good or evil in an adventurers actions but everyone can be the bad guy of a different story

Wow! This story had me so hooked in and intrigued...great writing!

On one hand, I understand the assassins reasoning from a philosophical perspective, they both kill, they both do it for sometimes similar and almost mundane reasons, the only thing setting them apart in this oversimplified analysis is their favored course of action. On the other hand, I can see why the paladin would take offense to the comparison. It's easy to call your acts of cruelty justified, when everything is either good or bad and there're no in betweens. The goblin story is something completely different and definitely worth exploring, the idea of throwing monstrous races with above average intelligence at the players is interesting and it reminds me of the Neutral necromancer story. To think that the players would pride themselves with their victory after killing an innocent being, only to learn that it was actually just seaking peace and understanding.

Paladin: a bad person working to become a better person Rogue: a bad person content with being bad. The rogue has perspective, and the paladin has vision. Together they might make something of themselves.

This was so good!

This is probably one of my most favorite videos on RU-vid!

Oh please, these 'killers in shining armor' comments... There are plenty of paladins who are this way, but I've seen just as many paladins played good and just. The paladin in my party does everything he can to make sure those who deserve to live- and that includes criminals who deserve proper trial- do indeed live. He has cashed so many favours, spent so much money on transportation, spells and resources to see his foes captured and sent to the cities for trial rather than simple death. That is the difference. It sounds to me that if this paladin knew of the goblin's intentions she would have changed her actions and sought peace, but there is blameless tragedy in what transpired. I imagine in situation where dialogue was possible this paladin would have declared the crimes of her foes before she struck, and the innocent would have time to state their case. If not every time, some times. Said assassin would never get that chance, and given the way they speak I doubt they would be as likely to show constraint if they did. Two people who kill are not the same. It's not wise to say that's true; it's naive. Every nation kills. Were it not true, that would be swell, but alas it is. So we judge a nation's crimes by context, by justification, and by necessity. By these metrics we can conclude who is in the wrong. People are the same. Killing *is* wrong, but that doesn't mean our way of killing, our justification, do not matter.

Can I just say that their DM is fantastic. I love making my characters question their motives and make the players themselves either shutter in terror at themselves or in what one of my npcs or bad guys do. This DM played the game of morality so perfectly. My hat is off to you

I had a similar conversation with my party member a Ranger. I am a Rogue. I asked the Ranger if she would be inclined to go down the path of the Assassin, her skills were already in line with it. She said she would never murder in such a way, it was beneath her. She claimed she was a hero. I brought her back to a few sessions prior where she attacked the fish people in the town and was responsible for downing half a dozen of them single handedly. I said, you're already a murderer. Her response was no I'm a hero. My final response to her was, then I guess heroes are murderers, which would also make me a hero. She was stunned after that moment.

A very interesting story. I am reminded of this passage from a fantasy book where a character stated that at the heart of evil is a void that nothing can see into and at the heart of good is a brilliant light that nothing can see into. Different but more alike than either dare admit. It takes a rare character to see that and a brave one to speak it. Be careful when walking in the darkness or the light, you can become blinded by both.