Bro the strongest character in the Konoha crush arc is that roof. Like I need that engineer and construction company for my house! That fucking roof helf kage level combat including 100s of tons off water and a freaking forest! (and yes I am serious, that water dragon was way past 100 tons of water)
Thank you for literally being the only other person in the world to ever acknowledge that the Akatsuki robes only have 1 sleeve in Part 1. Itachi isn't pulling his arm in for some weird flex or quirk, he's doing it because he doesn't have a fuckin sleeve to put his arm through.
great vid man! pt 2 always gets more focus power-scaling wise because of how crazy things get, so this was much needed in the community (plus i’ll take any excuse to have minato and itachi in a top three)
I love your videos - fair analyses, learn a bit every time - no elitism, not condescending at all to Naruto fans who aren't as familiar with the source , thank TG
This is an interesting power scaling... I do have an argument for it; I don't like the idea that you keep scaling those who died like Haku but I get why since they're the standard (the bar of the power system) and let's be honest, Haku might beat Final Valley Naruto and Sasuke if he's at full strength, no holding back. THAT'S... It kinda makes sense why later in the War Arc he's still such a threat. I look forward to Part 2... because OH BOY...
personally it's fine that initial kyubi Naruto is so strong because after in the forest of death, orochimaru tampers with the seal. Also that it's the first time that the chakra comes through so it comes through like a flood, whereas his body or the seal gets used to containing it.
I'd love to see a part 2. Also, You should do a video on Hokage that can be beaten by certain non-Hokage. The other Kage are usually portrayed as weaker than the Hokage but I'm sure there are other Kage that could beat a couple hokage
I have to say that interaction between kakashi and kabuto is the most gassed moment in part 1 lol. People really use that to say kabuto may be stronger than kakashi or would have beaten him. I never understood it at all.
great video, the only thing I would note is that I don’t agree with placing Sakumo over Itachi due to the fact that Sakumo was hailed to be stronger than the Sannin over 13 years before the part 1 and it’s many time reinforced that Sannin especially Orochimaru get stronger. so you now have a case of Sakumo being stronger than the sannin that are unquantifiable weaker than those in part 1 and Itachi being straight up above them at least individually
Appreciate it yeah my issue with Itachi over based on the intel is that he's vaguely a high diff opponent for each Sannin, compared to Sakumo above the group. Tsunade actually somewhat implies her prime is stronger than her current self off of the Kabuto Assessment with no real basis for the Sannin actually growing stronger or being able to note they change as we don't have a previous reference. That's just my interpretation, an added bonus is if this includes their summons who are HEAVILY implied to be ~ to the Sannin themselves which is another avenue I didn't get to mention. Just my 2 cents tho more so wanted to give Sakumo some love
@@ThunderGodTG oh shit man idk if you’re somewhat open to letting other people into your servers but if possible could i maybe look into it, cuz i never saw some of the statements or translations featured in the video and I always love to go through some Naruto inverse scaling
I swear to god Kimimaro is the strongest Ninja in the entire series at the time of his debut, outside of Itachi hax. Dude could kill any other person seen up to that point with no sweat, and even everyone for a decent amount of time after as well.
@@cringewyrm Orochimaru just doesn't *do* anything in Part 1, really. He swings a sword, he does some summons, but nothing he shows could even scratch Kimimaro, and Part 1 doesn't show us anything to suggest that Orochimaru would survive getting stabbed by 1000 tree-sized bones. He's just not a real fighter with feats in Part 1.
In the first group, if we aren't counting demon Naruto, Sakura seems to outpace him. His taijutu is better than hers, but he isn't noted as good at it being the worst rookie in the academy. Not to mention, she not only reacted quicker to the demon brothers, but she reacted and acted in time to save Naruto's life from Zabuza's sword pre-chakra control training. Given her better general knowledge of jutsu, her chakra control, her tactical skill, and her more honed senses: it seems she would be able to hide and beat Naruto with a few basic traps.
Also land of waves Kakashi still beats Haku. Not as easily, but let's be honest: Kakashi always overhypes his enemies to keep Naruto/others/himself serious and not underestimate them. And Zabuza frankly didn't realize how below Kakashi he was. Both attacks and plans are walked into with Zabuza believing he can win. Still, even as Kakashi's attention is divided and he's been traveling/recovering from exhaustion, Zabuza didn't get a single win. So even assuming Zabuza wasn't just bluffing, he vastly overestimated Haku's tactical prowess.
@@jasonmoukala8909he most definitely did, haku didn’t demonstrate high jonin skills simply by holding back against two genin while using a unique bloodline limit that neither had the answer to. And that trait made him better able to intercept Kakashi, but if he was that high above him, he simply would have gotten him out of the way without having to tank the blow with his chest. In fact, the tailed beast form Naruto used to overwhelm him is well bellow what Kage level and its likely any jonin could handle such a blast without getting overwhelmed as Sasuke def wasn’t joining level when he defeated it in the valley of the end. Haku clearly should be beneath any of the leaf jonin.
I see what you’re saying but I still put Naruto above Sakura. Naruto has mountains more chakra than her, is actually useful in battle, and is capable of on the spot battle tactics. Sakura’s chakra control aids her very little
Doesn’t Kyuubi count as a character in the first arc? We see him full fledged during the flashback so he should be on the list (maybe top 1 or top 2 if you consider him stronger or weaker than Minato).
I do think the sannin have a more prime Kakashi in mind when they compare him to Kabuto; making that rusty version at least vaguely inferior to Kabuto. Kabuto outplays him using dead bodies and maintains a playful demeanor throughout their encounter in chapter 89. The short exchange is is actually what makes Kakashi realize just how rusty he is (saying he might become "obsolete" soon) and he starts training again because of it. 42:50 The Kakashi here should be more in shape, but there's also extra context to consider. The invasion had just officially failed and it would actually be Kabuto and Baki (arguably around special jounin level) vs Kakashi, Guy, and a special jounin [Genma]. It wouldn't be a smart fight to take even if we assumed Kabuto was stronger.
I would've probably preferred if the top lists of each arcs only featured characters playing a role in said arc tbh Having Minato be there taking a spot every time even though he just appears in the prologue kinda sucks :D
The guy downplay Is crazy. Guy has a winning record against kakashi despite not using the gates when they spar against one another. So base guy has a record of 51 wins & 49 losses versus kakashi.
I ain’t got a problem with Guy > Kakashi it’s just impossible to place Gated Guy on this list so it’s much better to use the statements about his FP as a reference.
Imo I think the Sasuke chakra flex on Kabuto feat was very concrete. Not to say based fatigue Sasuke would beat Kabuto or Kakashi, but it's like "Oh shit. This mf would fuck me up if he went all out." And that's why he was scared. He was seeing into the inner-depths of Sasuke's chakra and realized how strong he was. Also I think there's a databook statement or smth of the final valley fight Naruto amps being his strongest amps. Which means the amps were stronger than in the fight with Haku. This would honestly give c1 3 tomoe Sasuke some relevance to Kakashi (But I doubt he could win in an actual fight) And I think this puts c2 Sasuke above Kakashi if you want to be somewhat charitable to Sasuke's scaling. It would make his post time skip strength make more sense if he started out stronger than Kakashi that early on. That's just my opinion though. It just makes a bit more sense to me. This is taking into account that Kakashi got stronger after the fight with Haku, but I don't believe he got stronger by so much that the feat is completely irrelevant to his retrivel arc scaling.
I think you can def say Naruto & Sasuke FP are Jonin level by the end of P1 it’s just way too vague. The statement you’re referring to is discussing Naruto without the One Tail Cloak. I think the problem is that Naruto only has that feat vs a more fatigued variant of Haku this being directly which makes it not a 1:1, Haku himself is kinda a glass canon with really good speed but, really bad AP (Naruto yelled away his Senbon lmao) or could just regen the damage. It’s just really difficult to accurately place those versions of the characters on the Top Ten since they’re just no grazing that Leaf Jonin tier compared to everyone else and or the mountains of evidence.
@@ThunderGodTG I get your point. Haku just kinda eats a punch from that Naruto and then eats another punch from base naruto and then speed blitzes Kakashi. Yeah I get your logic. The list is still valid.
All of you RU-vidrs say the same thing. I dont know if the anime switched it around from the manga but in the anime Pain clearly states “I still require 30% of your chakra for the sealing of the 1 tails. Not 70, 30. Which means Guy fought a 70% clone, not a 30%. I don’t see how you, sage, Seth, six, swag, miss this in every single video you reference it in. Like I said maybe the anime reversed the manga statement. But in the anime Itachi and Kisame are 70% clones.
My brother in christ, did you peep the intro? Do you know the rules for the vid? Nah you skipped it why don’t you go ahead and watch that then come back to me talking about Shippuden feats smh I ain’t even bring that shit up in this vid too so this is a double L
@@ThunderGodTG Wheww. You’re actually wrong in every way, that’s crazy. I did watch your intro, you did include that feat, and it’s still wrong. Do you need a timestamp on your own video? Lol. You and every RU-vidr who ever mentioned guy or Kisame always say it’s a 30% clone and not a 70. Every video, not just this one.
My brother ch.255 Pain saying this is in reference to the technique (art of impersonation) NOT the Gedo Mazo the subject of the sentence is the art of the impersonation idk how you think otherwise. Kisame reaffirms this in Chapter 260 “we gave the dopplegangers 30% of our chakra”. You legit just are interpreting pains statement weirdly when it’s mentioned twice and clearly 30. What’s CRAZY is being as wrong as you are and coming in with your energy, chill out G
Minato grinding is crazy. Hiruzen is literally stated as the greatest in part1 before all the retcons. You're constantly misusing information to fit your agenda. As example, if Hiruzen wanted to prevent another hokage from rising, it's simply to not face 3 hokages at the same time yet you badly misinterpret it. Same with Anko, having another hokage aside from Hiruzen would help.
It’s noted to be a Hiruzen that’s not old, Hiruzen somewhat chides Iruka for his use of past tense, along with Oro’s statement of him being 10 years younger. The Hokage point is literally the most blatant since Hiruzen could have stopped any 1 of the coffins yet gave the most focus to Minato’s. It’s a very clear power indicator as regardless he would have had to fight 2 Hokage.
Kyuubi Naruto in the land of waves is only weaker to 1 tail naruto at the valley of the end. In terms of Naruto himself. You can argue even stronger due to the bloodlust
The reason I think haku is stronger than kakashi is because I think zabuza made a lot of assumptions about what he thinks Haku would be able to do against Kakashi based off of watching him fight Zabuza the first time. Kakashi effortlessly beat Zabuza in the first and the only reason it ever seems like it’s a hard battle is because Kakashi was trapped in the water prison. I don’t think Haku would be able to beat Kakashi in a 1 vs 1 scenario tho I do think it’d be close. Not refuting what’s in the source material but that’s my opinion on it.
I just want to add guy beat Kakashi 1 more time than the reverse, but I do think after Kakashis training he would be above guy and if they fought a few more times it would be reversed and Kakashi would win more often
Part 1 Itachi still slaps Sakumo silly. He said he can take on Naruto and Kurama, while Jiraiya was an afterthought. This Jiraiya, who by the way could solo these featless young jonin-level Sannin, was a non-factor for Itachi. Take this in.
We actually don’t have indication the Sannin were weaker, tsunade actually implies the opposite noting she had a prime (this being P1 Knowledge only). It’s like we have one dude above 3 Arbitrarily weaker Sannin as a Unit vs 1 Dude who’s arbitrarily above a single Sannin and it’s a high diff fight.
@@ThunderGodTG Itachi is arbitrarily above full nine tails + Jiraiya + Konoha's top shinobi in a fight. Sakumo is arbitrarily above the young Sannin in repuation only. Context matters. The distinction changes everything.
How is Itachi arbitrarily above the Nine Tails? Where is it stated he could defeat the nine tails on his own? + Jiraiya who he'd said he's >~ to? The only statements regarding the Nine Tails is that it was Defeated by the Fourth costing him his life and was a Calamity beyond the Village. The Sannin aren't presented to be stronger with Age in P1 actually the opposite as Tsunade implies.
@@ThunderGodTG Kisame states that Itachi could beat Naruto + Kurama transformation + Jiraiya + Konoha's top shinobi + more Konoha backup. Itachi does not disagree.
Beating Naruto is NOT beating the full Kyuubi that should be clear. On a surface level reading of Naruto you can just see this with every fight the Kyuubi participated in where its fragments of power are stronger than Naruto’s own abilities. A follow up is Kisame does NOT know how strong a Kyuubi Naruto is fully transformed and it’s entirely baseless to say he does especially when he’s shown fallible on basic leaf knowledge like Sasuke being alive. He also goes off Jiraiya’s reputation not his strength at first before confronted so his knowledge on inner leaf workings is extremely limited. This is also an insane blanket statement as Itachi being above > Jonin Elite in one encounter with backup on the way, doesn’t constitute too much since even Oro himself is said to be > a Small Country. Jiraya was a different case all together and Itachi concedes he was forced to use his MS ability - The Amaterasu. These are also not at the same time as the comment implies and are separate incidents that require Itachi to rest & not overuse his eyes after each encounter. He’s even shown to be physically strained vs Leaf Jonin after using Tsukuyomi so this is a crazy blanket statement. A lot of this is insane over generalization which is crazy when the initial comment references context.
Been waiting for this one since you mentioned it on stream. Part 1 scaling is my favorite part of the series, so this was a fun video for me. I always love when you have to deal with the Jiraiya over Itachi thing. This will be a shorter wall of text because most of what you said is accurate aside from a few points. Land of Waves: Spot on. Only thing you could argue is that Naruto with KN0 is comparable to Kakashi and Zabuza rather than below Sasuke. Haku is insanely cracked and the respect is real. Chunin Exams: A little too high on the placing of Kakashi/Kabuto. Kakashi didn't lock in and get his real resolve back until after the Kabuto incident, he's still a sword that lost its edge at that point. Haku runs circles around them, which you talk about in the video, and it's odd that you decided to lower Haku simply because he isn't in the story anymore. Guy is extremely clear when he tells Team 7 that he's stronger than Kakashi, and Sasuke taking notice of it is most likely accurate because Sasuke's deduction in the moment is generally accurate as long as his ego isn't involved. You can supplement this with more with a few other things from exclusively this arc, mainly how Kakashi has to use his Sharingan to watch Lee vs Gaara, but Guy can obviously perceive everything happening and should be outright superior to that by implication of him also knowing the gates. Guy does have his Blue Beast title at this point, we don't know that it means Seventh Gate and Hirudora until much later though. Having Baki on this list is weird because the manga is pretty explicit that Baki does not think he can actually control Gaara. Konoha Crush: I don't see why we can include Minato on the list but not Rasa, but I also hate giving anything to Rasa so good on you for leaving him off the list. I've said this several times, but considering Orochimaru in the same tier as Hiruzen is bizarre given what we see of their fight. Hiruzen defeats Edo Hashirama, Edo Tobirama and stalemates Orochimaru simultaneously while being mentally nerfed for the majority of the fight. The cut off of 138 is important for this section though, as we don't know that Hiruzen offered Jiraiya the position of Hokage until the next arc, which is what places him comfortably above Hiruzen and Orochimaru. I still don't think you can argue Jiraiya isn't above Orochimaru at even this point because he went through with the Konoha Crush at all because he didn't expect Jiraiya to be there. The thing that I dislike the most about this section is that the earlier decision to decay Haku means that there was no discussion of Haku compared to Edo Hashirama and Edo Tobirama. This uses information from future arcs, but I think it's worth mentioning here just for the sake of making this comparison not sound ludicrous. Haku is narratively implied to be comparable to Kimimaro, so they bounce off each other well. Orochimaru was intending to bring Kimimaro to fight Hiruzen and he did bring him to fight Rasa. Orochimaru saw Kimimaro and decided he didn't need the Sharingan anymore until Kimimaro's illness showed up. I don't see Haku actually beating Edo Hashirama or Edo Tobirama because they are Edo Tensei, but it would have been interesting to hear the scaling from that angle. I also appreciate the Kurenai and Anko respect here as well, not a lot of people give Kurenai any. Search for Tsunade: Obviously, Jiraiya is above Itachi by showing and statement. The more realistic match up is Tsunade or Hiruzen vs Itachi, but no one talks about those. We don't know how much Itachi knows about Guy's strength at this point, but Itachi's plan went from "kill Asuma and Kurenai, kidnap and interrogate Kakashi" to "Don't underestimate Guy, we need to leave now." as soon as Guy showed up, so I think it's pretty reasonable to say Guy is still greater than Kakashi at this point. Kisame doesn't really have much statement or showing to go off of at this point other than he's a rogue ninja, a Seven Swordsman of the Mist, and that he could fight Asuma and Kakashi. Putting Kisame above Haku looks a little weird if we consider that Kisame hasn't shown any of his real powers at this point. Sasuke Retrieval: There's only two real characters to discuss here, Kimimaro and Gaara. I already touched a bit on Kimimaro, but this guy is an absolute monster. Kimimaro is pretty cleanly above Gaara, but I think this is where Gaara has bridged the gap into potential Kage level and I would say Gaara is stronger than Kakashi at this point. Gaara beat Itachi and Minato's Chuunin Exam records. Gaara is contending with someone who was going to fight Hiruzen. Drunk Lee needed Guy and Neji to restrain him, but Kimimaro is dealing with him effortlessly before Gaara steps in to push Kimimaro to his limit. But also, Sand Tsunami is absolutely ridiculous and not many people have an answer to it. I think a bonus round section at the end of the video with the Genin kids could have been cool. It's pretty much impossible to argue Gaara isn't the strongest, but it would have been cool to hear your thoughts on how the others stack up against each other. Small shoutout to Choji, Shino and Temari for being underrated there.
The disrespect on Guy is insane. I get what you are doing, you are going by statements about the specific periods, but the only statements we had about Guy since the beginning were one from Guy himself saying he is stronger than Kakashi, one from Sasuke saying he is faster than Kakashi and later we discover Guy is over Kakashi in their contests (that we will learn later being all kinds of contests and it doesn't necessairly means strenght but it is still a point for Guy) and he will later look better against Itachi and Kisame. I'm not saying i think Guy is definetly stronger than Kakashi at this point, they should probably share a spot, but if you want to put one over the other only going by statements and feats is clear Guy should be higher. You put Kabuto on the same spot as Kakashi only for that couple time someone says he is at most as strong as Kakashi while Guy is under them when he is implied to be over Kakashi. This is wild.
I think Gaara and Kimmimaro should have beat Asuma at least. They feel stronger than him at the time tbh. And Haku. Because I think this Gaara or Kimmimaro would've beat Haku/0 tails Naruto.
Haku would prob outlast both of them they don’t have the same reserves / regen as naruto with both having pretty verifiable chakra limits. All Haku has to do is not use the ice mirror prison tbh
I can’t lie usually I finish before commenting but you can’t do Guy like that…when I watched for the first time his introduction was to show u how a blitz is implemented , to show there’s many more strong characters, & he’s also str8 up saying he’s stronger than kakashi & as me watching it’s believable because I just seen Sasuke w a sharingan get whooped by Lee… & Kakashi is basically Sasuke in the grand scheme of that introduction to Taijutsu & Just look at him there’s no way kakashi is beating someone whose stronger than s1 believed to be Bruce Lee! Guy is like a Super Bruce Lee He initially was overpowered & they had to nerf Guy for the sake of watching him fight later on!! Even when u see Lee who is doing Kage level things (even kakashi pulled his Sharingan out) there’s no reason to say kabuto & Haku are beating him with the information presented in the time frame u have listed even tho his feats are yet to be seen because we placed minato at #1 & Anko has NEVER seen him fight & we’ve never even seen him fight either so we going off the baseless assumption of Anko & she also didn’t kno of oro’s new abilities atp to even say that….. Basically what I’m saying in a nutshell because I understand how you structured the video & how contentious this is which is why u out the pre claimer there but “ Sasuke is used as a plot tool to illustrate the audience & our disbelief that someone random could be stronger than kakashi, hence he demonstrates by showing his superior speed relative to that of kakashi” is basically what I’m saying ig the rest of what I said doesn’t matter because I could’ve just said that but I had to give extra info on why I said wgat I said :)
But the sannin from the second war are way weaker than the current versions of then. Jiraiya didn't knew sage mode, Tsunade hadn't developed her strength of a hundred seal, and Orochimaru didn't have edo tensei nor the white snake powers, so yeah, at that point of the story we don't know that, but giving Sakumo the level of the current sannin together is s bit of a stretch. Actually, Id say that the statement refers to each of the sannin separately, not as a group, because all of them are refered as a sannin.
Icl i think kishi wanted to hype up Jiraiya in p1 w those statements,because lets be real once we saw what itachi can do in shippuden he bullies Jiraiya easily lol
Ngl most of that fight is off screen and when we cut back other Jonin are in the mix. They legit have one on screen clash and then we have no conclusions.
Glad you did Itachi justice, sick of having to debate dummies who really think Jiraiya could beat Itachi in a fight lol, Itachi's statement in hindsight and with full context that he said to Kisame was also just a blatant lie, in hindsight he is a spy for the Leaf and wants to downplay himself and prop Jiraiya up so that Kisame doesn't find anything suspicious when Itachi gives him the command to flee, and he was STILL suspicious because he knew Itachi was capable of far more than that. Putting Sakumo against Itachi is criminal though.
The Gaara that fought Kimimaro is stronger than all jonins ( since guy didn't show any of the gates ) he was already a kazekage level, i can't see how kakashi or kabuto can survive the sand tsunami. So based on the feats shown the final order should be like this: 1- Minato 2- Itachi 3- Orochimaru 4- Jiraiya 5- Hiruzen / Tsunade 6- edo hashirama 7- edo Tobirama 8- sick Kimimaru 9- Gaara 10- Kakashi / Kabuto
Gaara has no one else to compare to aside from Tokubetsu Jonin & he was def not Kazekage level by the end of P1. None of the Sound 4 or Tokubetsu Jonin are messing with Kisame, Kakashi, and or Kabuto.
@@ThunderGodTG First of all Kisame is a beast but in part 1 he didn't show any feat to put him on the list. Gaara showed the same feats that he showed later as a kazekage, he even became a kazekage directly after part 1. Also what feats does kakashi or kabuto showed that can counter the sand tsunami ? The only thing kakashi can use to counter it is his water jutsu but its still too small compared to the sand tsunami that Gaara used. And that's not even his strongest technique, he can literraly manipulate the ground, Kakashi or Kabuto has nothing at their arsenal to deal with that.
They would legit just be too fast for Gaara to tag and hit him before he gets the Jutsu off like Lee in the exams. Gaara can use the same technique but, it’s outright stated he got stronger, just cause Sasuke in the Chunin Exams & Rinnegan Sasuke both use Chidori doesn’t mean the feats transfer over.
Nah it’s mainly the multi - shadow clone jutsu due to dudes splitting their chakra up crazy. Literally most dudes never use that many clones in the show for this reason.
@@ThunderGodTG So does that apply for evertime across the show when Naruto does multi shadow clone jitsu for 100's of clones. Or does that not apply because of Kurama?
Nah Naruto’s the exception due to his reserves. It makes it so he’s one of the few who can utilize this technique in this fashion without just killing himself.
