With regard to successful immersers (let's pretend that's a word) like Matt, Dogen, and Roto here, it seems to me that they all still went through a kind of boring basic training in grammar and vocabulary. They all came to immersion after a certain period of grinding traditional classes and textbooks. Indeed, Matt says on his Refold site that getting a foundation in the most frequent vocabulary and some grammar is essential so that you can get a foothold and start understanding at least something from your immersion. Right from the start of my Japanese study I've been looping the same podcast (Mami on Rebuild, "Technologically Archaic"), but it's only since I started grinding the most frequent 2000 words list that I am starting to understand bits of the podcast. Without that grounding (and grinding), it's hard to even begin to understand normal speech. I did it successfully in a couple of other languages - it's boring, but once you get past a certain threshold, you can just take off and never look back.
16:05 one thing i'd say to Roto is that it may be worth saying very simple, grammatically correct things in a near-perfect accent, so that you don't ingrain certain speaking mistakes or learn to completely ignore them/not listen for them. Though, it may not be a problem if you immerse, you'll probably be able to correct each thing as you get native input and can hear differences in accent.
This communication style is so unique yet effective? I never really thought about it until now but as always great interview! (I'm gonna pretend there was a segment in the video where Raza told me to absolutely destroy that like button ;-;)
I definitely think native-level english is possible for a japanese native. Sakuraco (she runs a store called hello and goodbye, does a bilingual podcast, as well as posts some english workshops on twitter) has improved tremendously via immersion. She's also lived in the states for a while, but it's clear that listening to podcasts and reading adult-level books about behavioral psychology, productivity, and other interests of her's that she's improved the most. I'd say she's started to get close to native, and is on track to be mistaken for a native on the phone, though you'll maybe get less of a reaction in the US wrt good english ability because of the nature of america's immigration policy over the years vs that of japan's.
► Watch another bilingual podcast here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-H0AoT5K3P2c.html This week we're doing the podcast a little different. Raza's not here this week (but still remember to SMASH the like button) and it's a bilingual podcast! If you enjoyed this type of conversation let us know in the comments! Now you can FINALLY listen to the KoreKara Podcast and not feel guilty about not immersing in Japanese. Outline: 0:00 Teaser/Intro 0:46 Roto Introduction and Language Learning History 4:03 Roto's Experience Using Anki 7:31 Thoughts on Language Tests and JLPT N1 9:26 How To Sound Like A Native Japanese Speaker 11:34 Is Native Level Possible? SPOILER: YES 16:10 HelloTalk Is the KEY To Fluency? 22:05 Roto's KoreKara Message
... and as for this "direction" of bilingual conversation (each speaking their native tongue), this seems to be a sensible approach. Most such conversations end up the other way round, with both speakers struggling to express themselves in their target language, whereas here we have both speakers able to establish proper relationships and friendships, while simultaneously immersing in "native content" (their own, self-driven conversation) that is relevant and compelling to them.
big fan of this format, native english speaker has a discussion w native japanese speaker in their native languages (plus tidbits of the others' native language/their target language)
I wish I had just a normal Japanese friend that would speak only Japanese with me and I speak only English with them. Most people don’t understand why you’d do that and the advantages that come with it because most people have no interest in learning how language learning works which can’t be helped I guess. Also people are always also confused on why I don’t like speaking Japanese yet so I guess immersion is that Japanese friend for me atm lol.
Kind of in the same predicament here, though I wonder if one could find someone on HelloTalk willing to do this. I feel like, outside of the Japanese immersion learning community, most people are most eager to develop their speaking skills, so yeah, it’d probably be difficult.
Lucky my girlfriend who I met when she was studying abroad at college agreed to do this and we do it all the time. We definitely notice a skyrocket within our listening abilities and we're just starting to talk in each other's native languages. You guys will find a partner to practice with ❤
Hey @KoreKara do you know what happened to Roto? I’m not sure how or why but it seems his channel and all his videos have been deleted? I hope he is okay and doing well! Please let us know if you know anything!!
I started using anki one month ago... and it's useful for memorizing the words and the phrases but... you actually have to use the phrases and say them whenever you can
Absolutely based! Saw one of roto's videos of him speaking english and it was definitely impressive. Btw, would also be nice if you guys could somehow get むいむい or her frequent collaborator Pooちゃん
Yeah, she's damn close to native English level. I think I remember her saying that she was crap at English until high school and she's never lived or studied abroad so it's pretty impressive.
Half Japanese and half English is super helpful for learning for me, I realize now! I'm at the point where I can sometimes carry on with a Japanese conversation, but I lose the thread on podcasts really quickly. When it's half English, it helps me keep up.
The question that always intrigues me is if native or near-native level is possible for people who start later than their teens. I know Japanese who have near perfect English, but all started English in their teens or earlier. Most of the near fluent Japanese L2 language speakers I know (including of course people like Dogan and Matt v Japan) also started in their teens. I suspect its very different for people who start after their 20's.
In the video, Roto speaks about one of his professors that started learning Japanese in her twenties. He cites her as "living proof" that native level is possible.
Not as an adult. I just interviewed Kemushichan, えばそん, Jess in Tokyo and many others living in Japan for 15 years plus all answering with an overwhelming NO. And a no from me too.
How can you judge if someone can or cannot learn Japanese to a native level if you can't judge from a native standpoint yourself? I'm not totally convinced that time living in Japan is a good indicator on whether or not someone is qualified to comment on language learning ability alone. If you stop trying to improve, why would you assume you can't?
I think trying to be native level is a wierd goal because I have non native English speaking friends that I talk to daily that every sentence they speak you can tell they are not native but they can read write watch or communicate anything they want. I also do think it can be silly because I don't think most people that start learning Japanese are going to get past an N5 level. Like honestly I would be surprised if more than 5 out of 100 people starting will get anywhere at all with it because it is not a time commitment it's a life commitment.
@@papercliprain3222 same with lots of professors from abroad who are very knowledgeable about their domain of expertise and can hold deep conversations, even if they make grammar and accent mistakes.
