I love how this is basically a 100% scientific data video, and yet almost all the comments are jokes about protein farts. I must be in the right place.
I've learned that if i wait long enough, the science will swing back around to confirm the things I've always done anyway...therefore im 100% optimized like 50% of the time.
Key takeaway from the video: 1.6g/kg/day 0.71-0.82g/lb/day Good news for me, I was constantly worried I'm not eating enough protein. Turns out, I overeat just a bit! Considering I'm super active and walk around all the time, the excess is accounted for nicely.
I posted the math in another comment that is being drown out by fart jokes... most average people would be doing well to put on 5-10 pounds of lean muscles a year, so the 1.6g/kg figure lines up with that. Whatever your total daily figure is, the body only converts about 20% off it to muscle, the rest goes towards maintenance and metabolism. So to gain 5 pounds of lean muscle in a year (which is pretty normal for a lot of people) you are really only accumulating an average of 6g of protein a day.
That's brain hypertrophy in action: Full ROM sudoku in sets of 3-5 with 1 puzzle in reserve Pondering the philosophy of perfect technique until failure Advanced calculus focusing on a deep stretch and a slow eccentric
You've already got grams in there. Why not just go all the way and go for grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight? Could even do grams per gram it you like. Or ounces per pound I guess. But why grams per pound...
Holy Hell, your farts must be like tear gas. It actually sounds like you're giving people black lungs. Let's hope they're quickly gone with the wind, otherwise you might cause an ordinary extinction. Do you, perhaps, dream of armageddon?
Mike, your channel is a perfect example of how to present your entertaining self but still letting the guest have the spotlight. Very informative and fun video!
Divide original number by 2 and take off 10 percent. Gets you extremely close and is very easy to remember! 220lbs = 110*0.9 = 99kg 160lbs= 80*0.9 = 72kg 2.2lbs = 1.1*0.9 = 0.99kg
Regarding age, leading protein researcher Donald Layman, PhD has found that minimum protein intake for those over 65 is greater than the current RDA (0.8 g/kg). The minimum requirement for people over 65 is 1 to 1.2 g/kg. Research has demonstrated that amino acid recycling decreases as we age. Given the same training program, an older person requires more protein to have the same level of protein synthesis as a younger person. The younger person is better able to recycle amino acids and therefore requires less protein intake. An older person needs more protein than a younger person since they have a reduced ability to recycle amino acids. Therefore, it is accurate to say that older people do in fact need more protein when it comes to reaching their minimum requirements.
Always love hearing information from separate fields of expertise that have significant and impactful overlapping function, gives an awesome degree of clarity and understanding of variables whos relationships may not be immediately understood as linked.
I ended up going to a medical nutritionist, (a medical doctor with a specialization in obesity) and he was at this same equation of .71g/pound of total body weight. Or as an easy rule of thumb he said 1 gram per pound of lean body weight, IE: remove your fat. Which works out to the same thing or a bit more if you're in shape.
Because I eat a (mostly) plant-based diet I tried to be at the top of the protein requirement range, and are around 1,8 tot 2,0 grams/kg right now. I was a bit worried I was eating too much protein unnecessarily, but this video helped me confirm that I am probably wise in keeping it around the 2,0 grams/kg. Good stuff! Thank you, Mike and Menno.
I’m a cancer survivor, just tested in remission a few months ago. My oncology nutritionist told me early on that during treatment in order to maximize my strength through chemotherapy I needed to be eating 25 to 35 g of protein Ideally every three hours. I think that was a range for most people, so with my gender and size I’m guessing 25 would be more appropriate. It did take some planning.
Your oncology nutritionist told you to eat huge amounts of protein for strength, but said nothing about resistance training? Keep eating protein every three hours? Is he trying to keep your mTOR constantly elevated? Maybe you should get a second opinion. Sounds like you are taking a lot of risk and for what benefit? Muscle strength? You can keep track of your muscle mass and strength on a daily basis. Get to the gym and lift. You can NOT not keep track of the progression of your cancer this easily if it comes out of remission. Also, your nutritionist said to do this during chemo treatment, which might be fine. However, you are now in remission. Why do you believe this will help you? You might be doing the exact opposite of what you should do. Do you have any research studies that show high protein diets are good for keeping cancer in remission? I have a friend that got cancer at age 78. He got to the gym as a newbie when he was diagnosed. He will be 87 this May. He is still competing in powerlifting. He competed last April in the 4th Ave Gym Powerlifting Classic in Yuma, AZ (if you want to see him lift in a video, google _instagram uspaarizona 85_ ).
Hey if yall read this, just want to say im A huge fan Of this interview style Type video that is more long form With Good solid data and information From a professional That I can like watch while I'm at the gym or In the car driving, very informative
I am 6 feet, 85 kg male with 15% body fat percentage. I have been weightlifting since the last 14 years and have tried 75 grams, 100 grams and 150 grams protein per day keeping all other variables constant (total calories, workout etc) I have not even found a single difference among all three protein intakes in body composition, strength or anything else. Infact, my blood work is the best at 75 grams protein per day, my digestive health, joint health, cognitive function is also the best at lower protein intakes
man I’m the same height and body fat but 15kg heavier with 11 years less of training. I’ve always eaten 200+ grams protein and I’m not trying to ignore genetics or individual variation but I really think you’re selling yourself short by eating so little. it’s not hard to eat 200g protein and it’s never caused me gut issues, I reckon you’re just getting it from bad sources which is the underlying stimulus of the problems you encountered
@@denali9455 I have eaten protein from egg whites, chicken breast, whey protein supplements etc. Whenever I increase protein more than 15% of calories I suffer from hoardes of issues, especially acne, digestive issues, accelerated ageing due to IGF 1 spikes etc. Also, I am at around 15-17% body fat year round with 85 kg weight. I too can increase 20 kgs of weight but then it slows me down. Increasing weight is the easiest thing for me since I have a tendency to gain weight easily.
@@denali9455 Ok, I am also 6 feet tall, my personal experience is that eating more protein has no absolute impact on my muscle growth. In the first few years of training, I followed the 1g/1lb rule. Later I felt it was too hard for me to intake so much protein and there's no significant muscle growth, so I dropped the protein to 120g/day(40g/meal), raised 10% carbon-hydrate and I found that my muscles grew even better. My body weight went up smoothly to 88kg and my muscle weight today is 65-66kg, body fat up and down between 12-15%. To be honest, I think the amount of protein intaking really depends on the individual. You have to feel it yourself to find out how much protein is the best amount for you. It's just my personal opinion. I am amazed that you can take so much protein.
@@DewaldLouwChannel it’s not too much, it’s just more than what helps the average person gain muscle, AKA the minimum. there’s no reason not to go a little higher to make sure you’re not under tracking and who knows you maybe you’re the outlier that needs 250g to maximize muscle growth because of some genetic condition. there’s no reason not to play it safe with 20g extra protein a day
Divide original number by 2 and take off 10 percent. Gets you extremely close and is very easy to remember! 220lbs = 110*0.9 = 99kg 160lbs= 80*0.9 = 72kg 2.2lbs = 1.1*0.9 = 0.99kg
@@bambo999 Given the imperial unit is, well, the British Imperial unit, and the KG is from France, the place that pretty much invented liberty and blows up a bus when the government tries to take away people's benefits, shouldn't the kg be the freedom unit?
Absolutely loved the collaboration! This video is truly phenomenal in every way. Dr. Mike asked great questions that are very relevant to the discussion on protein intake for lifters and Menno answered each question in a very comprehensive and detailed manner. I learned so much amazing information from this video. It’s quite helpful and very valuable. Thank you so much for the excellent video! I greatly appreciate you for sharing your wisdom and insights with us. I’ve gained a lot of knowledge from your work. I can’t thank you guys enough! 🙏
Dr. M - "I don't actually learn things, I intuit them directly from the universe." Menno H. - "Hmm, that saves time." I'm all about your humor Dr. Mike. Don't change. Great video. I did learn one or two things I didn't already intuit directly from the universe.
@Menno: thank you for doing this Q&A session with Dr. Mike! In your article, you indicated there may be a caveat for people doing high amounts of strength training AND aerobic exercise in conjunction. The limit could be higher in that situation. Could you speak to that? Thank you!
Well thats good to know, because on a cut I sometimes want to eat something tasty but I have to cut it for pure protein sources just to meet 1g per pound. Going down to .71 actually makes a huge difference
When it seems better or easy youre wrong 😂 its just my experience. Everytime I heard some new things like training less for more results or eat less protein or whatever makes the journey easier it was shit😂 if it was easy everybody would look good. In fact the progress allways comes when you focus on those 30 grams more protein or that one more rep and so on. Science is nice but look at oldschool, they just ate a lot and trained a lot and where huge
Amazing video, glad to be member. Like someone mentioned, I would have also liked to question an if there's any intake recommendation change when trying to lose fat.
After lifting for the better part of my life, starting as a teen and now in my 40's, I have found out the basics always work and not to complicate things too much. If your bodyfat is too high, then eat less calories than you burn until you are lean enough. You probably don't need to track calories if you can consistently be in a state of mild hunger. If you got fat it's because you've been eating too much food. If you aren't a vegan, you will have an easy time meeting your protein needs unless you are dieting. If you're eating maintenance or higher, then you are probably getting in enough protein. More than anything, just train hard and consistently, avoid drinking in excesses and get a good nights sleep. Trust the mirror more than the scale. If you have a serious goal, have someone take pictures of you. The mirror lies too. When you have to stare at your love handles in a photo, you cannot twist yourself in a way that helps you avoid looking at them.
While I think this is good advice in general, for some of us counting calories and tracking macros really is necessary. I'm back to doing a cut after a year of careless eating and I was shocked by how small my portions had to be to eat at a deficit.
All good advice! However, I never understood why people think getting enough protein as per the guidelines of 1 gr/lb is easy. In my case (42 years male, natural) it is very hard unless I take protein shakes. Did you assume protein powders as well?
i think tracking your weight per week helps in that case and checking your strength in the gym. if someone hates the idea of tracking, all they need to do is eat the same food and track that for one time, then check the weight per week if it goes down or up approx 0.25 to 0.5 kg difference per week should be fine . even if u do this way u will see progress@@Cenyon
This exactly. Mike has talked about pre-contest naturals seeing success increasing their intake up 1.2g per lb/be and I’d like to know if that tracks still
i mean probably not, since they said the gram per pound is an overestimation, so if you were gaining before and were withing recommendation keeping it similar will probably not change anything in how much muscle you keep, unless you decrease intake.
@@nathanjude707 There may not be enough research on it, though I would suspect that this number won't go UP given this is the maximum the average body can use for growth. Just a guess though.
One of the best videos I’ve seen on the topic. The combination of highly informative and the lighthearted offensive humor is very entertaining. Thank you gentlemen
Check out researchgate. You won't need a scholar login. If the paper you want isn't there you can ask the researcher directly. Researchers want people to read their work and can distribute it personally.
Honestly, I always had the intuition that 1 gram per pound of body weight requirement was insanely high. I eat WAY less than that and see excellent results at the age of 42 (obviously naturally). Plus, with my appetite, even hitting 50 grams is hard for me through regular food intake without supplementing with protein powders (which I also consider kind of unnatural). I also do not like to add food or extra protein, which in my case comes mostly from animal sources, just to look a certain way. That's a bit iffy in terms of my personal ethics! So, I am happy to see that this excellent research confirms my suspicion and removes the unnecessary pressure to add more protein to my diet. Thanks for sharing Dr. Mike! Kisses on your bald head! I hope you don't mind!
Sounds to me as though he is leaning toward vegetarian or vegan: "I also do not like to add food or extra protein, which in my case comes mostly from animal sources, just to look a certain way." Still, "struggling to get 50 g"? That's very odd. I struggle to stay under 1 g per pound of body weight (I "fail" this pretty much every day.
If you're vegan or vegetarian, you're gonna have issues with quality of protein, you might need a bcaa powder to stimulate protein synthesis, not to mention.You're gonna be missing several essential.Amino acids that are not commonly found in vegetables... Doctor mike discussed this in another video I don't remember the title
@@johnhilderbrand9204I eat meat every meal except breakfast. A usual lunch or dinner meal for me is a pasta with a can of tuna added in, which is on average 26+11 = 37 grams of protein. Now, if I do this twice a day, I will get to 74 grams of protein per day. This is me eating to hunger as most days I do not feel any need to have a breakfast except a coffee. Even if I added a 30 gram breakfast, my total would get to 104 gr which is still a far cry from the 163 grams that I would need according to the guideline of one gram per pound. And, yes, I gradually gain weight on this diet and I also feel that I am slightly force-feeding myself! I hope it's clear now what I mean.
I will say, I'm vegan, and I haven't experienced any issues eating .7g per pound. Im 181 at the moment. Over the last year, I've added ~30 pounds and just over 1.25" cold flexed on my arms. Throughout this, I honestly didn't give any consideration to protein quality.
I feel like you both have good points on protein amount for gear vs no gear. Because the feed efficiency is greater, yes, but also the amount to grow is MUCH greater. So like, if we were comparing how much protein a natural would need to gain 1lb of muscle vs how much an enhanced lifter would need to grow the same amount of muscle, the natural lifter needs more protein, because the efficiency is not as great. BUT, because when you are using gear the same amount of training that would grow a natural 1lb of muscle might grow an enhanced lifter 2lbs of muscle. So because there is more tissue being produced, the enhanced lifter needs more protein to build it. But because of the increased efficiency, they do not need twice as much protein to build twice as much muscle. So youre both right, just referencing opposite points of data.
These Dr. Mike and Menno videos are great to nerd out. Keep up the good work fellas. For more of this style, check out "What Rep Speed Is Best For Building The Most Muscle?" and "Why Ultra High Frequency Training Might Be Best For Building Muscle." 💪🤓
is there any reason why soy protein is entirely omitted from the vegan section? has some of the highest protein quality and digestibility compared to any and all proteins so i think it would be worthy to make up the majority of your protein intake
His section on vegan protein needs was pretty inaccurate and didn’t represent the body of evidence currently available for vegan protein consumption and requirements for plant based athletes. Soy is excellent and where I get the bulk of my protein week to week, the idea that we need 3x as much protein because we aren’t consuming it from animal sources where it’s structured in a more complete manner is bordering on being an ascientific claim just based on how basic protein metabolization works lmao
Considering vegan or vegetarian diet Is soy protein not on the same level as pea protein? I thought soy has all essential amino acids aswell A lot of animals get soy food sources too right?
It is, and study after study has shown that complete vegan proteins are not lesser than complete animal proteins. And there is a surprisingly large variety of complete vegan protein. There are tons of vegan athletes and bodybuilders who aren’t guzzling down 2 or 3 times more protein like this guy suggested and they’re still strong af
I'm really glad I watched this. I loved the ideas about protein and satiety. I used to believe that protein was the most satiating macronutrient but they make a great point about leafy greens, fruit, etc... in comparison to a whey protein shake. Also, how much healthier would be be to have .75 grams protein per pound and instead of 1-1.5 grams per pount, and replace all those extra calories with fruit, vegetables, potatoes etc... Sounds like a plan to me
For the 1 gram per pound thing, another reason I like this is that it compensates a bit for things that are mislabeled or not delivered in a consistent enough way for perfect accuracy.
Yes. One thing I learned from Dr. Mike’s nutrition book is protein availability. Milk and eggs are like 100%. Meat and poultry are like 70-80%. And things like beans and peanuts are only 50-60%.
@@domepiece11 I'm vegan so I guess I'm not getting the most protein availability according to your numbers however I am quite muscular for a small female and have built a nice amount of muscle and dropped some fat to show too
I wish there was some research on minimum effective protein for muscle maintenance. So we know it's not optimal but still you won't lose significant muscle with hard training. Some people have kidney conditions that have them on lower protein.
The minimum required protein is 0.8g per kg of body weight. But why would anyone who's commiting time and energy to training want to stick to the minimum protein intake is beyond me.
@@kamshik some people have kidney disease where they advice them to lower protein, so without the doctor giving you a specific amount, you might want to see how low you can go. That's just one case Another case could be someone that trains hard but isn't really a bodybuilder, so leanness is more important than mass, so they want to know how much is really necessary to maintain muscle and be lean.
@@Esco-lq4rb Being/getting lean while maintaining muscle mass is the exact scenario where you need the maximum amount of protein your body can use. If you train hard and don't have a surplus of protein, you will probably even lose muscle mass.
Can you please make a deep dive video on the amino acid leucine please, because of ethical reasons, I want, must and have to eat as little animal protein as possible, but as much as necessary of high-quality animal protein in the form of lean poultry, lean beef and eggs to build muscle. In a study I read that regardless of body weight, a minimum of 20g of protein per meal, regardless of bodyweight and age, is needed to build muscle. In another study I read and like you said, there must be at least 2-3g leucine per meal to build muscle. These two studies contradict each other because 20g of protein does not contain 2g of leucine. For example, 100g raw weight chicken breast has 23g protein but only 1.8g leucine. My question is whether, as a natural average lifter without TRT and without PED´s, are 20g of protein from, for example, 100g of chicken/lean beef or 3 whole eggs per meal enough Protein to build quality muscle even though there are not 2g of leucine per meal? Provided at the end of the day 1.6-2g of protein per kilogram of body weight is achieved and spread over 4-6 meals!? I have often read and heard that naturals in particular have to eat more protein to build muscle than guys who are on trt or on peds because naturals do not have consistently elevated muscle protein synthesis!? Don´t get me wrong here, I don´t want to split hairs and focus on every little detail but this is something I´m a) just interested in and b) I´m not the guy who just want to „eat more“ protein or fit my protein requirement into 3 large meals because in general I don´t really like protein foods and do better with more carbs and fats and a higher meal frequency and I want to avoid
There is plenty of leucine in eggs and milk. In terms of ethics, I source milk from a local farm where the cattle have endless green pasture. I get the eggs from pastured chickens my family raises.
Vegetarians kill more animals every year than carnivores do. One death from a cow can feed many; how many foxes, rabbits, insects, birds, and fish need to die due to pesticides and mono cropping? What are these “ethical reasons”? You should do more research. Eat pasture raised…even better if they’re from REGENERATIVE farming practices.
Hit 1.6g/kg and 10g of leucine per day and you're good. Vital wheat gluten is the best plant based source of leucine but seeds, nuts and legumes are all good sources too
Another great video. Just watched the Eric Helms video about supplements (2 weeks ahead of this one) and now this great update on protein intake. March has been a great month for RP informative videos ;)
As a recently graduated college student who studies exercise science this channel is insanely useful as a way to continue learning and being engaged in the field of exercise without having the structure of curriculum. Dr. Mike is insanely knowledgeable and strictly science based along with hilarious. Love this channel
First of all, thank you so much for these insights! One of the nuances, that was mentioned in the beginning, but unfortunately not covered in the video was the potential influence of concurrent training to protein intake. Any insights on that particular case would be interesting.
Very interesting and thorough video, I am left with 1 question. Does protein requirements change based on if you are in a calorie deficit vs a surplus vs maintenance?
@@Ktisgone if they have, I'm sure we'll hear on this channel, haha... if you watched the video and were wondering if you missed it, I didn't catch it, so I don't think you did. I know Dr. Mike has spoken on the topic though, and while he didn't have this excellent guest, he probably spends an awful lot of time reading studies.
Haven’t seen a research on it but if I had to guess i’d say not at all. Unless you want to lose muscle in the process, i’d keep your protein intake as close to the same and the rest is calorie based
Menno's article on protein is how I knew about him before seeing him on RP. Those telling you that you need so much protein are from the supplement companies.
@@robertauclair2278 genuinely interested. Do you know where I can find them? There are no info in the description highlighting the ones considered and ones ignored...
Would love to know both their thoughts about soy protein isolate in context of vegan bodybuilding, which has something likely 99 percent of whey's PDCAAS iirc. I don't think I've ever seen research on PDCAAS scores of blends.
Whey is actually about 1.04 since the scale is set up with egg protein as 1 and whey seems to be a bit better. The soybean concentrate is actually 0.99, the isolate is 0.92. All these minor corrections aside, all protein that's above 0.9 is great. A potential problem with isolates and concentrates is that they're not satiating, since you're usually drinking them. They also don't contain the various electrolytes and micronutrents that non-processed food contains. For example - creatine. A vegan bodybuilder would need to scoop that creatine like there's no tomorrow since they don't eat meat.
From my research, if soy is down anything, e.g. in tofu, it's in methionine, which can be supplemented with some other protein source to bring it up to 1 or so. Some pork rinds, a slice of turkey, an egg white... a bit of a casein bar, those are some options to get an extra 10% of usable protein from your tofu.
Stop being a vegan, your not saving the planet and your not any more ethical than anyone else. Eat red meat, eat eggs and drink milk. Your mind body and soul will thank you for it.
