Navigation in WW2 US Fighters and in DCS 

Has anyone else noticed other content creators making videos about aircraft featured on this channel? It’s gotten to the point where if Greg makes a video, others use our guy as if it’s a primary source, usually without credit. Keep it up, Greg. History will prove that you’re a great credit to our wealth of knowledge.

Greg I don't think all of us together could thank you enough for the stuff you do we really really appreciate it

Planning, briefing and leading a flight of like minded-players on treetop strike missions with dead reckoning, simulating authentic ops from the war is total focus for the hours it lasts and very immersive. A nav plan, a compass and a stopwatch - hit the target, get out and come back home alive and the whole flight of other players also alive and well, is a great feeling of having done a good job for the day. Performing as authentic as possible is really rewarding at the end of a mission and shutting down, having a debrief and off to the pub (virtually, too expensive these days!). Thanks, Greg! Great to see you demonstrate these methods and explaining.

I feel incredibly privileged to be able to play these games and get training aids for free like this. Amazing stuff, see you all out there

Hi Greg great video, on my RAF MDR course ( Mental dead reckoning) we were encouraged to pick specific features on each leg and refer to the map as much as need be. MDR certainly kept me on my toes and lets face it a map never runs out of battery power like a gps unit can!! keep em comin

Still watching but this is great. It explains these topics in a way even a layman can understand.

If you're in the F10 map on the mission, you can select the measuring function and right click on a known point on the map, drag the cursor to your desired waypoint and it will give you distance and headings. No need to eyeball or screen shot. Love the videos as always, Greg!

Great overview of basic navigation, just like I do in my ragwing Piper, and like I learned 30 years ago.

This was really interesting, thank you Greg. I've read so many WW2 autobiographies, but very few go into the routine aspects of their lives... just the odd nuggets places here and there. Most likely the publishers said it was too specialised or the pilots thought it cluttered the narrative. But I love it! It looks like an amazing simulator, but I dare not get it or it will take over my life!

New subscriber here! My grandfather was a WW1 aircraft mechanic and my dad built sprint car engines back in the 50's as well as welding up NASCAR legal roll cages for whoever wanted one in the late 60's at the local dirt track. Your channel has got me thinking, (something a man should never do) about these two men again and now I've got the jones to find out where my grandfather was stationed in France in 1917-18. Thanks Greg!

I went to Maine Maritime Academy and trained as a professional maritime officer, including in navigation, both coastal piloting, celestial navigation, various mathmatical things like computing great circles etc (as a sophomore student on my cadet shipping, I unintentionally puzzled out how to do a Mercator Sailing before we learned how to do it in class, and then had my world rocked the next semester in T-Nav 2 when Captain Parrot explained how to do something I thought I invented - turned out I was only beaten to the punch by like 200 years). Anyway, all this compass correction was certainly stuff we covered. One thing I always really found interesting was the "nautical" publication H.O. 249 - the air navigation table. For celestial navigation at sea, sailors use publication H.O. 229 extensively, but H.O. 249 was created either in the 30s or during WWII, I honestly don't know, and it was designed to facilitate celestrial navigation on long range flights where the navigator needed to be able to take multiple sights very, very fast, because the standard method was just too slow. Pub 249 was super useful for cel nav on a ship, because it allowed us to pre-compute for essentially every 4 minutes exactly where 7 navigation stars would be, and this pre-computation only took like 5 minutes once you learned how to do it, and then you could go out and nail a 7 star fix in like 10 minutes, which is really, really fast, and you could do it without even using a computer program like Sky Mate, which was really only a few minutes faster. Using the Air Navigation Tables was so much more easy and slick than using the more traditional method for ships. The other bit I wanted to toss out is related to the whole "True Virgins Make Dull Company" bit. I've heard 3 different versions for that. If you want to convert from True bearings to Compass* bearings we would use the True VIrgins Make Dull Company At Weddings. That was the sort of Kid Friendly version. One of the most straight laced proffessors I had whispered to the class, "I usually like to say 'Add Whiskey instead hehehe.' " If you wanted to go from a Compass bearings to True bearings, the saying was Can Dead Men Vote Twice At Elections**. Well... one day in Celestial Nav 2 class, Captain Cole is writing the TVMDC+W on the board and muttering out "True - Virgins-Make..." and this kid piped up, "Hey Captain Cole, you want to hear how Joe Conlon told me he remembers that? It's pretty funny." Captain Cole says sure. Apparently, Joe Conlon came up with the phrase, "TransVestite Men Did Conte At Whorehouse" after another of my classmates had a well publicized trip ashore in Santa Cruz de Tenerife to a brothel. It was pretty great. So now, to this day, if I have to do a compass correction (which I don't anymore since I stopped working as a merchant marine officer in 2016), I think about that time my friend Nick went ashore and found himself a lady friend. *"Compass" bearings and "Magnetic" bearings are different - for the casuals out there, that's why we go from TVMDC, rather than ending on an M for "Magnetic" your magnetic compass bears are actually called a "compass bearings." A gyro compass bearing is usually just called a "Gryo bearing" and the magnetic bearing isn't what you read on your compass, it is where the earth's magnetic field points with no distortions from the gigantic steel ship we were riding on, so that's the different between a "Magnetic" bearing and a "Compass" bearing" **Don't start in on my with that elections crap.

Oh no way Greg finally got a watermark. Thats awsome!

Just DL'd DCS a few days ago, bought the P-51D, but have always been fascinated by 'the Jug'. After I can fly that NA bird well enough, will have to circle around and get the P-47D. Thanks so much for this clear and concise tutorial. * subscribed *

Great video Greg. I know I lack the self-control to actually own and run DCS and real life together: I'd be unemployed and divorced in 6 months. Watching you and one or two of the other content creators seems to be enough for the moment. Thank you so much. I love the way DCS players drag opponents across friendly flak, which seems always to avoid blue-on-blue while never failing to at least target the opfor aircraft. Whereas every memoire I've ever read written by a pilot on any side in WW2 said to the effect of 'avoid flak, flak is bad, but especially avoid your own flak - 'friendly' flak batteries unerringly target you without regard for ammunition and other aircraft in the sky'. And if there are allied flak batteries (e.g. US flak for DUKE pilots, German flak for Italian pilots, etc.) well, watch out but more so. Thanks again Greg.

believe it or not, until now, I never gave this a thought. Great job!

I will just set these tracks on fire, so I can maintain target acquisition later!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRILLIANT! It is so fun to watch intelligent people doing what they do. P.S. Love these DCS play videos, More please!

I was taught both GUMPS and FLAPS in flight school, as well as several other acronyms which now escape me along with the litany, "Mixture Props Throttles Props Mixture, Hooray!"

Would enjoy more like this. Like all your stuff on aircraft, however, this is great for us occasional virtual fliers.

Greg always delivers! The TVMDCW mention is a nice touch.

IL-2 Great Battles on a winter map is crazy hard to navigate (rivers and streams blend in). Appreciate the content and education. Time to learn how to do it like the real deal.

Great video greg, in addition to your history videos with lots of engineering emphasis, i really enjoy any DCS content you make.

As a private pilot SEL in the 1970 -90 period I was taught pilotage techniques first and VOR/DME as an upgrade of necessary pilot skills. I never did loose my affection for sectional maps and plotter. Prior to my first solo cross country flight my instructor pointedly explained that my triangular round robin course was bounded by 3 interstate highways; his parting remarks were "...if you get lost just follow the concrete compass"...over some 850 hours I never did get truly lost although I surely was disoriented from time to time.

As always, awesome vid Greg. Thanks again!

Another good video. Thanks. As an old navigator in the USAF I can relate to this one quite a bit. I still have "tools" in a bag stored away. FYI, when the heavies flew in daylight they used the primitive radio direction finder equipment/beams and shot Most Probable Position lines from sun shots only with sextant when over water. Inertial systems came into play and things were better. GPS (originally Magellan) was like a promise coming someday when we flew polar routes in grid navigation mode with just the inertial. B52s with SRAMs that had the own inertial systems were kind of envied as they could tap the inertial systems in each SRAM and kind of average the results. As second seat in F4s it was a good knee board and plenty of DR calculation before you went out to the flight line. If you got in a tangle during the mission you had enough radio aides to get into proximity for someone to give you vectors to final approach. I expect this was a lot crappier in WWII around England, as I did a turn at RAF Bentwaters and noticed that some nights I couldn't get home from London due to ground fog.

Nice change to your other great stuff. Good to see you working the cockpit and the reciprocal tip thanks

Greg … Hope your surgery went well … thanks for another great Episode…!

Great video Greg. Good to know that you are in DCS. Nice tactics. Learned a lot from it. And, it brings me comfort to know that strafing and bombing WWII style is difficult. Sometimes I can't hit the broad side of a barn.

Great job, as usual Greg!

During WWII a USAAC Liberator got lost as the crew were flying north along the northeast coast of Queensland & the crew didn't notice they reached the northeast corner of the Australia (the tip of the Cape York Peninsula) & continued along the coast going in a south south west direction along the coast of the Gulf of Carpentaria, when they should've been crossing the Torress Straight to New Guinea. Eventually they ran out of fuel in the desert. They ended up having to survive in the desert till they were rescued by aboriginals. There's now a corroberri dance by the tribe to remember the event by their verbal memory & a doco was made which I saw ages ago. I can't remember how many of the crew died, that is if any died, but I do remember they had a horrible time in the desert. Well done again Greg. Your videos get consecutively better & better

Thank you for the information. I’ve been just using landmarks to figure out where the German headquarters were and also the boats in the sea although when I went to the German headquarters after a server restart, there wasn’t anything shooting at me which was odd as there should’ve been all new Germans setup there ready to get the beans poured on them.. but oh well I did have a heckuva time finding the middle target in the middle of the map so I’ll try the information you shared and I should be able to find it now.

I've always chucked bombs 1st then do Rocs/Guns. Decades of WW2 MP air combat have taught me the advantages of losing the weight/drag are more helpful sooner than later.

The old E-6B! I remember learning on that. And no: Wilber and Orville were not my flight instructors.

Nice work, Greg. Hope you feel better soon!

Thanks for another great video

If you didn't test it already, the new ammo that was introduced last patch really makes a world of difference. Lights everything on fire. So satisfying now.

Your take off and landing were great! It is like you're a pilot or something. Lol😂

Can’t afford to play DCS but love watching the videos. The nav stuff was very interesting on its own. Also, that paint scheme is wicked!

Thank you so much for flying a WWII mission as a real pilot would fly, within the limits of the game, of course. I would really love it if you would produce more of these types of videos with different airplanes with different types of missions. This video was a great idea!

I am so excited, can't wait to watch this, cause I know in War Thunder, if I try the harder sim mode, I am lost like "how the hell did real people do this without huds, without glowing "this needs to die" markers updated instantly..." Tough as nails.

After seeing all of this I think you would be entertained to learn the nuances and quirks of navigating in the AJS-37 Viggen that's modeled in DCS! Thanks a ton for making this video though--the Jug is my absolute favorite and everything you've made on it video-wise has been outright studied by me and a friend. You rock Greg!

Fantastic video, great job explaining everything you were doing and your reasoning behind it.

DCS P47, such a delight to fly in this sim. Has become my favorite.

Awesome use of DCS to demonstrate a navigation methods.

the battle damage that jug took in this mission is a great example of why they had the lowest loss rate among US fighters, I don't think a Mustang would have made it very far after that while the T-bolt was trying to tell ask "there's still fuel and ammo left, where we going?" As far as ground target selection it's easier to remember what you can't kill with eight 50s, than what you can. Nearly anything except tanks and buildings are a valid target for the guns, and even then there are exceptions

As far as the GUMP check… even though I’ve only logged 2 hours so far in a fixed gear Piper warrior, my 20 something instructor is still teaching it. For undercarriage we say “down and welded” 😜

I really enjoyed this, Greg. I’m not a gamer, but as a P-47 fan, I think this one might be worth a try! BTW, I’m a private pilot with 1100+ hrs flight time, and today was the first time I learned the “add 2 subtract 2” for course reversal!! So I actually learned something practical today! 😂

Thank you for sharing! This is great fun. Inspiring to “skill up” on warbirds and give it a try!

Ahh the old whiz wheel, brings back a lot of memories as a student pilot…we would usually make a climbing left hand turn to 1500’ and set heading over the airfield? Keep that aircraft as close to the airfield as possible in the event of an emergency during the climb. Is your departure track a mission requirement? This is a great channel…thanks for your work

Great video Greg. I usually fly German aircrafts and started flying Mustangs and most recently the Jug on DCS and indeed engine management is tricky and complex. Got a lot of clues on this video and will put in practice soon in WP server as well. Cheers.

Amazing video, very informative ! On a side note, as a french living around this area it's always funny to hear foreigners pronounce towns names.

Thank you so much for the True Virgins Make dull Company add Whiskey! I've been having trouble remembering how to plot on my E6B and this is an extremely helpful nemonic I won't soon forget!

Loved this Greg

This is unreal. I’ve always wanted to know about this topic.

Cool video. You know a lot about flying those video airplanes, you should become a real pilot, lol. Always a pleasure watching your channel.

Interesting video, I have a map my Dad used in WW2, the map has multiple compass headings and distances pencilled in from the airfield to European coast. It appears the group possibly used landfall on the continent to confirm their actual course. As you say, one needs to be very familiar with the terrain (56th Fighter Group, 61st Sqd.)

The pilot knows where he is at all times. He (or she) knows this because he knows where he isn't. By subtracting where he is from where he isn't, or where he isn't from where he is (whichever is greater), he obtains a difference, or deviation.

I can’t wait to watch this video!

Nice mission. Enjoyed the video.

34:15 Witold "Lanny" Lanowski's paint scheme there. Polish pilot (hence the Polish flag cowl art) who joined the 61st Fighter Squadron because their commander, the legendary Francis "Gabby" Gabreski, who flew Spitfires with the RAF 315 Polish Squadron prior to the American military entering the war effort, spoke Polish and needed replacement pilots. When the other Polish pilots were ordered to return to the RAF, Lanowski and Boleslaw "Mike" Gladych resigned and took commissions as captains in the USAAF until the end of the war. A very interesting couple of guys. Gladych later became a US citizen. That paint scheme was actually used on a P-47M, however.

This was really enjoyable, I would like to see videos with every DCS aircraft you fly if possible.

The really ironic part about the breakdown of aerial _navigation_ into Pilotage and Dead Reckoning is that historically speaking, Pilotage and Navigation are nautical terms relating to steering a ship in relation to landmarks, and steering a ship via dead-reckoning and/or stellar sighting.

God this is a gem, I've never heard of using celestial navigation for aviation prior to this.

😂 "You could ditch here and hitch a ride on a halftrack back to town." I'm new to DCS and was like....WHAT??? SO COOL! It should be a thing though. There should be resistance, farms and farmers daughters in Normandy too 😁.

Pilotage can be used in unfamiliar territory as well, but it requires a little forethought. For example, I teach lost procedures to pilots using the pilotage methods I developed on my own. Using logical reasoning and looking outside to fly somewhere until you know where you are. I also use a pilotage trick to skip wind correction computations when using dead reckoning (a trick i learned from an older pilot), and can fly long legs very accurately. Problem with computed wind corrections are many. Lack of reporting along your route/altitude, most wind reports are actually forecasted guesses, etc.

You can put a line on the DCS map in DCS, Greg. No need to get out the paint box software. It's the icon at the top with the two lines with arrows on each side (representing distance measurement but it also reads back the true heading) immediately left of the zoom-in magnifying glass. It's not just in the Mission Editor, you can access it while in any mission too. You can also drag that compass rose wherever you like on the map, grab it by the title bar. Great to see you using DCS more! I'd love to see you evaluate the engine management in the P-47. I think there's a few things they don't have quite right yet re: boost.

Drift meter well described on RU-vid "WWII US Bombers" channel. Also very detailed, like Greg's.

I knew Bill Price P47 pilot. He would have mission return compass heading written on his wrist. This saved him vs.another pilot who "knew where he was going"

How about a video of a wildcat finding his carrier. I'll never forget flying over corpus Christi TX at 8500ft in my Mooney looking down at the Lexington realizing it was not the width of my small finger looking out over the Gulf of Mexico and thinking how these guys ever lived thru another day. The horizon disappears over the water.

RE: Pilotage; see also Visual Flight Rules, eh? That's been one of my number one reasons for wanting "real world" scenery for flight simulators for a long time. It is also particularly striking how much further it is possible to see from thousands of feet in the air as opposed to a few yards off the ground.

Good video. Sorry about your voice. Get well soon!

Enjoyed that.

Low level nav we would start on a course we had calculated taking into account wind. We would pick landmarks on the map we should overfly. In flight, we would adjust from that base course to overfly these landmarks, usually within 5 to 10 degrees of our originally computed course. That gave us the heading we should actually fly. We could easily compute our actual speed by those landmark, or just go roughly by so many miles per minute depending on aircraft type. Worked well enough, but you have to see the ground. This was over Northern Canada, no shortage of lakes or mountains to help out. You have to know how to read a map and pay attention the whole way. With practice you didn't need a protractor, you could look at a map and figure approx heading, using landmarks to refine. To calculate time, you had a pencil with notches every 10 miles. You figured about 2 miles a minute, so x miles gave you y minutes to fly to reach whatever. Or vice-versa. I don't advocate this, nothing beats doing your homework and plan properly. But it was fun to practice this low level navigation and get good at it. Slow prop aircraft can get boring, so you spice it up any way you can. This method works in DCS although it’s not necessary. You know you reached the target when the flak opens up.

How about naval aviation piloting board for carrier based dive bombers and fighters

"No bogies detected" -- Just 'cause you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get ya!

I just returned from a trip to Germany. Our course from Frankfurt took us across the English Channel crossing the English coast north of London. There was a solid undercast all of the way. I couldn't help but think of pilots returning from missions during WW II. I've heard the legend of just looking for the "biggest, dirtiest cloud and finding that goddamned island underneath!", but I imagine they usually saw what I did. Just a solid white layer of cloud.

Greg, flying a Thunderbolt and destroying 3 half tracks- that's what happened to Kelly's Heroes! You almost killed Clint Eastwood.

nice vid as always

Great video. I've recently gotten into proper simulators, and I've noticed my pre flight navigation is pretty much out the window. I have enough practice with somewhat unfamiliar pilotage, getting lost on plenty of cross countries, so I just end up winging navigation on most flights.

Greg vid!!!

Greg thanks for doing this. A couple pointers. As I said below since 2.8 update there is both magnetic and true on the ruler function, that clears up things nicely and it was a much needed upgrade. Second on your bombs. Yeah, the delay sucks but you can change it. When you load a bomb on a warbird in DCS there is a little yellow tab on the station, that's where you select your fuse settings. There are several fuses, with their MK number listed. I believe on the P47 I usually use the MK 243 Mod 0. i found an old US Army Air Corps manual on the different types of fuses...it was like 3 days of searching. and sadly, DCS doesn't go into much of any detail on the fuses. (there's no information in the encyclopedia) And that brings me to my next point about bombs. The way damage is modeled in DCS, the bombs DO NOT correlate to any realist bomb detonation modeling. A 500-pound bomb will have almost ZERO splash damage, where a 1000-pound bomb will splash everything out to about 100 meters from the impact. (the 1000-pound American bomb on the P51 and P47). That's why you see players loading up with only 1000 pound bombs. Furthermore the way damage is calculated in DCS for ground units and ships is a little broken. the armor of vehicles doesn't much matter, only that vehicles hit points. (Planes and helos have good damage models, ships and vehicles do not.) Currently in DCS isn't not really much use carrying anything but the 1000-pound bombs if you're going after anything with amor. Ground troops and soft skinned of course are different. But I don't know how many times myself or a squadron mate has gotten "80% damage on infantry" with .50 cals. As a soldier, from my experience a hit with a .50 is sort of a pass/ fail... It doesn't really wound, But I digress. Interestingly, should you want to get a laugh, get in a Hornet, Harrier or Tomcat and Drop a GBU12 on an infantryman. Set the Fuze to safe and lase the soldier. Though sniping soldiers with unfused GBU12's from a Tomcat is probably a very expensive way to kill a soldier, it's possible in DCS. As to your question about knocking off the tracks on tanks. Yes it should be possible, but in DCS it's not. You can only damage the hit points of the vehicle, you can't knock out a gun, or de-track it. (I've raised Cain with the developers about this, they say they have no plans as DCS isn't a ground combat simulator, despite what they say in their ads.) When you're attacking ground targets in DCS keep in mind that every ground unit is either in a group. Vehicles in a group (or soldiers) don't seem to engage multiple incoming aircraft at a time. The ground units will focus on one attacker with everything. So if you can always attack with a buddy or two. There is also a great video on FLAK on RU-vid (Training video, Periscope film). But as a general rule change course, or altuitde, every 20 seconds when in range of enemy guns. I've tested this and it does hold true, just don't fly straight for more than 20 seconds. This works in Warbirds, jets and helos, when facing guns. (Missiles are a different story) The P47 can take a TON of damage (which does match up with historic accounts.) On one mission I accidently locked up my buddy's P47 with an AGM-65 (RB-75) in my Viggen. The missile hit and he flew it home, repaired it. Later a friendly Hornet shot him with an AIM-9X, and he flew that one home as well. (He was having a day.) Anyway thanks for the video.

It took me a while but I can now navigate on the Normandy map by identifying certain landmarks. I can imagine quite a few pilots got lost in ww2.

TG . Thanks Greg.

The real reason I still tote an E6-B: It has the variation and deviation formula printed on it. It is my kryptonite. I can reason them in both directions. I can undo any mnemonic device. Almost 40 years. Or the E6-B is my Linus's blanket and the rest is an elaborate subconscious hoax to keep me bringing it. Plus, they are cool looking. Plus, if you are flying a Cub and doing wind triangles with a calculator, you don't deserve the Cub.

Nice aim on those first half-tracks. With my cheap joystick I'd be lucky to hit one, let alone two in one pass.

No Napalm Greg Just Bombs 😮😀 Thanks For This Dead Reckoning Video 😀😊 Great Explanation

Co-pilot. Lol. Another great video Greg. Thanks!

Thanks Greg

Greg! Another gem! I’d really like to get together and do some flying in the sim. The 47 is a personal favorite too so please let me know. I’ve done a fair amount of flying in it already but I know I would learn a lot more in the air. Thanks again brother!

If only my compass was that rock solid in flight lol

Really great video, will be very useful for DCS nav. Minor point, at 17:30 just before the take off roll you mention that torque just effects roll and doesn't produce a yawing tendency on the take off roll. Just to check my understanding: it was my impression that this torque produces more weight on the left wheel thereby increasing the rolling resistance, producing a yawing effect if not compensated for. The other left yawing forces being the p-factor, gyro precession as tail rises - as you note - and the slipstream effect on the vertical stab.

Interestingly, true north, magnetic north & grid north coincided over the UK for the first time in recorded history in early November 2022.

Those 19 to 20-something guys had a lot to deal with back then, just taking care of the engine, fuel and other systems - especially when you consider that they were fighting for their lives in the middle of all that. Maybe needing to think about operating the airplane would take their minds off of what they were about to do, or had just gone through, and were going to have to do again the next day, and the next...

👌 enjoyed

More of these, please!

Most DCS Players do not do flight planning but its really what it takes to look and fly like a pro.

Absolutely love the dcs content thanks Greg

Had a small chuckle when Greg said all pilots know how to do pilotage. As time marches on I'm afraid there are now some pilots who only know how to follow the line on their GPS moving map.

As always, great job, Greg! On weapon selection for your mission here, are you talking about 250# GP bombs? I know the 250# Fragmentation bombs were common but the GP in that weight is fuzzy to my memory. I know a lot of the P-47 work in ground support/attack was conducted using the 500# GP bombs but your mention of low altitude work & possible damage to your ship from non-delay fused 500 pounders is spot on. Once more, thanks for all the work you put into these vids! BRAVO ZULU!!!

AA fire in general is way overkill in DCS and it's been like that forever. They especially need to tune down MG fire from tanks and other vehicles, those would almost never hit in reality unless very close and served more for suppression. Stuff that's been asked for for as long as I can remember and ED still hasn't done anything about it. They do great work but a lot of QOL stuff goes un-addressed.

Great video! Seems like some of these strategies would be applicable to the F-5e and some cold war era planes too.